Track Lanes Discussion

[mschnell]

Repeating this request list from a post to a dedicated revision:

After working with Lanes comping doing many takes in a looped recording session I have some requests:

• It would be great if the name of the currently recording lane is shown somewhere so that I can take a note on paper what the singer did at that point and which lanes will be worth to be auditioned and considered for keeping
• It would be good to have a shortcut for deleting lanes (something with del). This should be possible without selecting the lane for playback. (Maybe I just missed an already existing feature)
• It would be good to be able to select multiple in a row (by something like shift-click) to delete them in a single action. Reaper often also uses right-swipe (marquee) for this). some ctrl-click action for adding top such a selection also might be nice.
• It would be helpful to modify (reduce) the height of individual lanes to have more room for the others (more important ones).

-Michael

[deeb]

Originally Posted by mschnell

[*]It would be great if the name of the currently recording lane is shown somewhere so that I can take a note on paper what the singer did at that point and which lanes will be worth to be auditioned and considered for keeping[*]It would be good to have a shortcut for deleting lanes (something with del). This should be possible without selecting the lane for playback. (Maybe I just missed an already existing feature)[*]It would be good to be able to select multiple in a row (by something like shift-click) to delete them in a single action. Reaper often also uses right-swipe (marquee) for this). some ctrl-click action for adding top such a selection also might be nice.[*]It would be helpful to modify (reduce) the height of individual lanes to have more room for the others (more important ones).[/LIST]-Michael

maybe would good to have an action to make a take marker with "fav" in the previous recording and also delete previous recorded lane. What do you think?


changing lanes heights would be nice too, like many other features existing in tcp (same same)

[mschnell]

Yep a shortcut for (nondestructively) deleting the previous lane/take in a loop would be nice.

Another action good to have for a similar purpose would be delete the current loop and immediately start the next loop.

(BTW. regarding the first in the list, the new version shows a loop counter (2, 3, 4...). Not perfect, but it does help.

-Michael

[deeb]

If i would be recording someone i think it would be great to have a delete previous take and Mark previous Take has favourite or rate 1 to 5 somehow. Is organising on the fly. Saves a lot of Time.

edit: now that i thought a little more, lightroom software as a system for marking photos with mark rate 1 to 5, mark as rejected and mark as pick. Maybe it could be a good system Reaper. Then actions to delete rejected, etc. Meanwhile Maybe this is scriptable too..

[deeb]

currently by double clicking a Fixed Item lane opens a dialogue for renaming lane. Anyone knows if i can change this to "Toggle selection for all media items on track" like in TCP but for the lane?

Edit: also meanwhile I thought that would be convenient to have an option or modifier that would allow that when moving an item to an empty lane to rename lane to this item name. Example: dragging a file called “bass” to an empty lane would name lane as “bass”.. Same behaviour I would like to tcp. What do you guys think?

[deeb]

Originally Posted by ovnis

FR: auto fixed lane track mode!

Advantage : we haven't to use an action to swith between regular track and fixed lanes track. It's faster, smarter and easier.

If there is no item on the regular track, the item fly over it normaly.
If there is an item on the regular track, when the the item (or rather the mouse cursor) is at the bottom of the track, the fixed lane add area appears.






If there is only one lane with items on the fixed lanes track, the fixed lanes track swith to regular track:





Maybe, it would nice to add this option too : only display the fixed lane add area when the item is at the bottom of the fixed lanes track (more space for items).

Up up!

[ovnis]

This feature could make it so much easier and faster.
No more need to use an action to create a track with fixed lanes.
Or to turn it into a normal track.

[tonalstates]

Trying to work with lanes for sound design layering I can see one fairly obvious feature that needs to be implemented, which is something like the action:

"SWS/BR: Play from mouse cursor position and solo track under mouse for the duration (perform until shortcut released)"

but for lanes, it's really tedious to try to listen to one lane in solo really quickly considering you might have up to 10+ sounds in a track, turning off all other lanes and then on just to hear one is not workflow.

So please, something to audition lanes quickly like that would be very widely appreciated.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by tonalstates

Trying to work with lanes for sound design layering I can see one fairly obvious feature that needs to be implemented, which is something like the action:

"SWS/BR: Play from mouse cursor position and solo track under mouse for the duration (perform until shortcut released)"

but for lanes, it's really tedious to try to listen to one lane in solo really quickly considering you might have up to 10+ sounds in a track, turning off all other lanes and then on just to hear one is not workflow.

So please, something to audition lanes quickly like that would be very widely appreciated.

AFAIK this is already implemented. Check the mouse modifiers-context fixed lane header button-play only this lane while mouse button is pressed.
Now when you press a lane number with this modifier you can audition it fast.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by tonalstates

something to audition lanes quickly like that would be very widely appreciated.

By default, alt+click on the lane header button will play only that lane while the mouse buffer is held down.

[tonalstates]

Originally Posted by schwa

By default, alt+click on the lane header button will play only that lane while the mouse buffer is held down.

oh yeah, I know, but you can't pause and playback again without letting it go, it feels like a game of catch up to press play with the cursor at the enough distance so you can then hit alt and click on the lane button so that the other sounds around that one you need to hear don't mix, this in comparison with that action that I can place the mouse exactly where I need to hear (most intuitive) do my shortcut (shift + space in my case) and mutes everything else, playing from there until I release, which is insanely useful.

A big part of sound designing is auditioning a sound playing and stopping a ton of times (ad nauseam) to finesse it into the context, I usually run the action above like 10-15 times in 15-20 seconds to quickly do what I need. This way (alt+click) you can't rapidly do that. Also the action I mention plays where the mouse is, which is also better to go through the sound. Not using the under mouse lane context for this is a slowdown imo

Just my 2c

[tonalstates]

I hope you can see the value in editing like this better with this gif, in comparison.

I can quickly audition on point, edit, fade, cut, trim, all there where i need to hear because most of the times I don't need to hear the whole thing, at least not when editing details.

Also I kind of lose sight of where the sound I'm looking for is if I need be looking back and fourth from TCP to arrangement, so yeah..

[deeb]

Originally Posted by deeb

currently by double clicking a Fixed Item lane opens a dialogue for renaming lane. Anyone knows if i can change this to "Toggle selection for all media items on track" like in TCP but for the lane?

Anyone? I have a tendency to put similar sound per layer so that I can quickly select this sounds and make a common change. Example: change volume. As far as I know we can only do this by dragging but is not practical.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by deeb

currently by double clicking a Fixed Item lane opens a dialogue for renaming lane. Anyone knows if i can change this to "Toggle selection for all media items on track" like in TCP but for the lane?

There is a mouse modifier section for the fixed lane header button -- not the entire header area, but the header button. One of the available behaviors is "select items in lane".

[Vagelis]

Hey Schwa, curious about the roadmap of fixed lanes. There were no other changes lately. Is there anything on the works or is it done here? Hope we get a few more things until it's done, like track versions and ability to extend lane heights.
Also i have mentioned multiple times that when the TCP is shown on the right side, the fixed lane numbers appear also to the right and not to the left. It would be a bummer to be released like that.

[_Stevie_]

I second that, versions would be such a huge thing.

[Gass n Klang]

There isn't a solution for a real life number (>20-50) of lanes yet I think. I still have a slight hope for a foldable subtrack kind of lanes.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by schwa

There is a mouse modifier section for the fixed lane header button -- not the entire header area, but the header button. One of the available behaviours is "select items in lane".

Thank you schwa, i guess there is a technical reason for not implementing a context for the entire header area? because i think it would look cleaner and coherent with TCP if we had separate contexts for this.

Button context actions:
----------
play on this lane
play only this lane when mouse button is pressed
toggle playing this lane
play all lanes
play no lanes
record into this lane
action list...


Header area Context actions:
----------
select items in lane
toggle selection of items in lane
insert lane
delete lane including media items
action list...



not sure where this action would better suited, maybe this could be in both:
----------
comp into lane
comp into a new copy of lane
comp into a new empty lane
comp into a new empty lane, automatically creating comp areas
comp unsync media items to a new lane and recomp

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

There isn't a solution for a real life number (>20-50) of lanes yet I think.

why?

[deeb]

Originally Posted by tonalstates

A big part of sound designing is auditioning a sound playing and stopping a ton of times (ad nauseam) to finesse it into the context, I usually run the action above like 10-15 times in 15-20 seconds to quickly do what I need. This way (alt+click) you can't rapidly do that. Also the action I mention plays where the mouse is, which is also better to go through the sound. Not using the under mouse lane context for this is a slowdown imo

Just my 2c

what would you suggest? something like solo a lane? it would be highly helpful if we had mute and solo buttons which would work over the "playing state".

example: all lanes are playing, but we could still be able to mute and solo and exclusive solo lanes without changing the playing state.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

Hey Schwa, curious about the roadmap of fixed lanes. There were no other changes lately. Is there anything on the works or is it done here? Hope we get a few more things until it's done, like track versions and ability to extend lane heights.
Also i have mentioned multiple times that when the TCP is shown on the right side, the fixed lane numbers appear also to the right and not to the left. It would be a bummer to be released like that.

I'm sure there will be many more improvements, changes, additional features, etc. However, the basic feature has gotten farther down the development path than we are normally comfortable with entirely in prerelease builds. The feedback has been super helpful so far but our current thinking is to release the code branch in something like its current state, or at least without any more major features bolted onto it, so that we can get feedback from a vastly bigger group of users.

[tonalstates]

Originally Posted by deeb

what would you suggest? something like solo a lane? it would be highly helpful if we had mute and solo buttons which would work over the "playing state"

Yeah, I guess my ask is for under mouse lane actions, or even better a way to make that same action/workflow but in lanes, maybe the API to be able to do it? I see it could be really useful in comping too, not just layering.

This was the action in question just keep context

"SWS/BR: Play from mouse cursor position and solo track under mouse for the duration (perform until shortcut released)"

[deeb]

Originally Posted by schwa

the basic feature has gotten farther down the development path than we are normally comfortable with entirely in prerelease builds.

unless this would be called "comping feature", without being able to record midi (or audio) while monitoring exiting content and respect this flow on the lanes level the basic is not done in my opinion. This Is the foundation of music recording and should be the basic principle for building lanes/layers. Anyone with "monitor while recording" ON will feel like a bug is happening. Anyway i understand: timing and when should happen is not of my concern, but is my opinion.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by deeb

without being able to record midi (or audio) while monitoring exiting content and respect this flow on the lanes level the basic is not done in my opinion. This Is the foundation of music recording and should be the basic principle for building lanes/layers. Anyone with "monitor while recording" ON will feel like a bug is happening. Anyway i understand: timing and when should happen is not of my concern, but is my opinion.

I assume you are referring to whether the previously-playing lanes should remain playing after a new recording pass? Currently, the logic is that if only one lane is playing when a new recording pass occurs, then afterwards only the new recording pass plays. If multiple lanes are playing when a new recording pass occurs, then afterwards the new recording pass plays in addition to the previously playing lanes.

The behavior is independent of the track setting to monitor media while recording, because it doesn't really make sense to connect those two settings. You might want to monitor track media or not, in either of those two cases.

The only ambiguity is what to do when recording the second pass on a track that currently has only one lane. At present, after the second pass is recorded, the user can either do nothing, in which case only the second lane will play and the workflow is likely to be similar to recording alternate takes, or the user can control+click the original lane, in which case both lanes will play and the workflow going forward is likely to be similar to recording layers.

[deeb]

Originally Posted by schwa

^^

i record 2 passes and then record another 2 passes.

On the first time recording everything as expected, lane 1 is not playing and lane 2 is playing.

On the second time recording reaper is not respecting and making musical logic since have "monitor while recording" and so does not make sense to "mute" what i was monitoring. i am monitoring lane 2 so I expect to keep this being played after recording but after reaper sets lane 2 to not play.




In the end of the gif i show what i would expect: lane 2 and lane 4 are playing, because that is what i was monitoring and what i have recorded on top of it.

edit: i noticed that the lanes number being shown while recording are starting always from 1, wouldn't it make sense to show what will be it's final lane number? in this gif, on the second time recording it should present 3 and 4 and not 1 and 2, no? maybe is more useful? or (1 pass/3 lanes) and (2 pass/4th lane), or maybe this should be optional: show pass number or show lanes number. I don't know... Also why pass 1 number is not being shown? maybe i am being picky.

[ferropop]

Originally Posted by schwa

I'm sure there will be many more improvements, changes, additional features, etc. However, the basic feature has gotten farther down the development path than we are normally comfortable with entirely in prerelease builds. The feedback has been super helpful so far but our current thinking is to release the code branch in something like its current state, or at least without any more major features bolted onto it, so that we can get feedback from a vastly bigger group of users.

With love devs, any chance we can have a dedicated thread that you guys dip into semi-regularly for some of these things? Big features, like Lanes, Razor Edits, etc.

This is unfortunately what happened with Automation Items - it got to a comfortable functional place, and while revolutionary - have never gotten the full fulfillment of love in refining all the useful ways to leverage them. And the way software cycles go, this can (and does) mean literal years before features get revisited.

I'm afraid this is where lanes will end up, and any effort to keep some "semi official" list of FRs would go a long way!

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by schwa

I'm sure there will be many more improvements, changes, additional features, etc. However, the basic feature has gotten farther down the development path than we are normally comfortable with entirely in prerelease builds. The feedback has been super helpful so far but our current thinking is to release the code branch in something like its current state, or at least without any more major features bolted onto it, so that we can get feedback from a vastly bigger group of users.

Thanks Schwa, appreciate a lot the detailed response. The current state seems stable at the moment so I understand. Hope to see some of these features that I 've mentioned later on though. But would it be possible to add the fixed lanes numbers to the left, when the TCP is shown on the right side before the release please?
Thanks and keep up the great work!

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by deeb

why?

because the lanes get tiny vertically. you cannot see anything. I think it's very necessary being able to zoom into every lane full screen height, no matter how many lanes you have. currently the maximum vertical size depends on the number of lanes or am I missing something?

Subtracks would be the best way there in my opinion. But that doesn't seem to be likely. I regularly work with high lane counts and cannot really use the lane feature for that reason. So I still need to work with other daws or record on a track per take or whatever which is sad.

[ovnis]

It is not planned to be able to customize the fixed lane title font/color?


The absence of this feature can really ruin some themes...

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

because the lanes get tiny vertically. you cannot see anything. I think it's very necessary being able to zoom into every lane full screen height, no matter how many lanes you have. currently the maximum vertical size depends on the number of lanes or am I missing something?

Subtracks would be the best way there in my opinion. But that doesn't seem to be likely. I regularly work with high lane counts and cannot really use the lane feature for that reason. So I still need to work with other daws or record on a track per take or whatever which is sad.

Ok. It would give some flexibility if lanes could be set to visible ON and OFF.
This way reaper or by API we could do things like show next 10 lanes, show previous 10 lanes, sub-paging. Or show single next lane, single previous lane, show first lane, show last lane.

Would it work for you?

Aditionally i think for the flexibility stand point, lanes just like tracks would be benefit by having P_EXT/AUXDATA to be used by scripts and extensions, and possibily we could do something like:

Originally Posted by deeb

I thought I d share this. And looking for your thoughts and opinions.

If we could have 2 different views: one for layering and another for comping working like this:



What would be the pros and cons? Would you like it or not?

I think I would like because would look more organized and easier to follow, and a clear distinction between layer and (comp + comp material). But maybe is too late or not worth.

[Gass n Klang]

Originally Posted by deeb

Ok. It would give some flexibility if lanes could be set to visible ON and OFF.
This way reaper or by API we could do things like show next 10 lanes, show previous 10 lanes, sub-paging. Or show single next lane, single previous lane, show first lane, show last lane.

Would it work for you?

I think it's crucial to have an overview over everything that's recorded. Often you do takes for every part of a song but come back to the first part in the end. It's important to see which parts are covered by which takes. That's why subtracks are nice. Could be folded and unfolded, you just could scroll through and zoom in out like with normal tracks. They just could behave like normal tracks and all items would have the same vertical size no matter if we had a multilane or a single lane track. At the moment we constantly have to zoom in and out vertically. Just like envelopes are already working. Imagine having 50 envelope lanes the way take lanes are right now

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang

because the lanes get tiny vertically.

I get this problem very often, too. As a work around I create a new track, but that is not perfect at all.

Options to hide lanes and to individually resize their height would be very helpful.

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by mschnell

to individually resize their height would be very helpful.

This is my most wanted feature at the moment as well and it's been requested many times. Back when I was working in Cubase lanes, this was an essential and super useful feature when there were many lanes and goes hand in hand with lane rearrangement for easier and better workflow. Hopefully we'll have this in the future since it seems that more users want this.

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

This is my most wanted feature at the moment as well and it's been requested many times. Back when I was working in Cubase lanes, this was an essential and super useful feature when there were many lanes and goes hand in hand with lane rearrangement for easier and better workflow. Hopefully we'll have this in the future since it seems that more users want this.

Fully agreed!

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by mschnell

Options to hide lanes and to individually resize their height would be very helpful.

For being able to view the more important lanes, an option to re-order the lanes in a track would be extremely helpful.
-Michael

[Vagelis]

Originally Posted by mschnell

For being able to view the more important lanes, an option to re-order the lanes in a track would be extremely helpful.
-Michael

This is already possible by dragging it from the empty space (not from the button number)
But I guess it's not very clear for new users. Probably a mouse cursor for indication would be a nice addition. (when the mouse is over the empty space and not after clicking on it)

[Zeno]

Originally Posted by Vagelis

This is already possible by dragging it from the empty space (not from the button number)
But I guess it's not very clear for new users. Probably a mouse cursor for indication would be a nice addition. (when the mouse is over the empty space and not after clicking on it)

Oh, it's pretty obvious IMO. it works just like with tracks. I wouldn't expect to change the track order by dragging the fx or mute button, but the empty space. Same applies here.
However, I wish the functionality to reorder would also apply to envelope lanes... then it's really coherent

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Zeno

I wish the functionality to reorder would also apply to envelope lanes... then it's really coherent

and reorder, and height and independent height from the track, renaming, deleting one by one (or better: ability to multi select envelopes and delete)

[juan_r]

Originally Posted by Zeno

I wish the functionality to reorder would also apply to envelope lanes... then it's really coherent

Showing, Hiding, Resizing, Reordering envelopes and lanes... that would significantly boost usability.

Yes, please!

+1

[OLSHALOM]

for example:

When I view all (11) lanes and want to razor edit the comp lane, it works just fine.

But when the lanes are collapsed and I just view the comp lane and I want to razor edit that one, it (razor) edits all lanes under the hood.

How can we avoid the editing of all unseen lanes?
Is there a setting for this?

Thanks in advance