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Old 09-18-2014, 05:23 PM   #1
Quest The Wordsmith
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Default Anyone using Reaper on Microsoft Surface tablet?

I was at Microcenter today in Brooklyn and saw a few windows tablets. Haven't messed with them before. They had keyboards, a stylus pen, and a USB port which could take a mouse among other things. So this thing (beefy with an i7 and 512GB internal storage) could essentially replace a laptop. So I decided, what the heck. Let me see if it can run Reaper.

I downloaded Reaper, did a portable install (admin restrictions wouldn't let me install normally), and fired her up. Worked like a charm. I also had a bit of fun trying Reaper out for the first time via touch. Interesting, but not what I was after.

So anyone here in Reaper land using a Microsoft Surface tablet with Reaper? Thoughts? Issues? The $2000 price tag for the top of the line Surface is basically a dream right now, but I do like the idea of being able to replace a traditional laptop with a tablet. Less to carry, lighter, faster, and runs Windows 8.1 so I can get everything else done I do with my laptop now. The USB port is there to hook up my external drive with all my sounds and sessions. What do you guys think?
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Old 09-18-2014, 05:56 PM   #2
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I've been eyeing that same tablet and wondering how it would run Reaper and plugs. It has good specs so on paper it definitely looks doable. Kind of limited in the USB port department though.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:10 PM   #3
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I've been eyeing that same tablet and wondering how it would run Reaper and plugs. It has good specs so on paper it definitely looks doable. Kind of limited in the USB port department though.
Yea. You could use a USB hub to get more ports though. The specs said it was USB 3 so that's a plus.
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Old 09-18-2014, 07:37 PM   #4
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I have a surface pro 2 through my job and have Reaper installed. Using it with the stylus is a bit awkward, as well as using your finger. Reaper is not designed with a tablet interface and clicking all the menus is a bit of a pain.

Spec wise the i5 version should be more than capable of running Reaper and plugs. I wouldn't try and use it as a tablet though.

The only time I do is sitting on the couch trying to create sounds with Zebra2.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:33 PM   #5
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Default Microsoft? Nope.

After several years of relentlessly messing around with Microsoft Windows and seeing a lot of design flaws and unnecessary hassles and proprietary software limitations and security holes and bugs (both documented and undocumented), I would NEVER buy a Microsoft product of any type, ESPECIALLY hardware.

I just don't think the company is well run, and I think their products are substandard.

I was recently attracted to a WalMart sale of some cheap smartphones, but when I got there, they were Windows Phones, which was a dealbreaker. Then a few days later I found out that they were cheap because Microsoft discontinued them and support for the entire line because sales were too low.

Don't waste your 2000 dollars and any of that junk. You could spend as little as about 175 and buy a decent used desktop computer, or maybe spend more on a decent new desktop computer.

Then you could save the rest of your money for whatever else it is that you need/want.

Good luck though. Peace
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Old 09-19-2014, 09:24 PM   #6
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Surface Pro 3 here, i5 256 gb model. I love it.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plush2 View Post
Surface Pro 3 here, i5 256 gb model. I love it.
Did you install Reaper on it? I'd like to replace my Korg workstations on stage with a Tablet PC running soft synths & sequences in Reaper. I'm curious to know how it performs with a USB interface...is the sound clean at low (at most 10ms) latency?
How awkward is it using the touchscreen for basic operation like fader movements, hitting transport buttons...etc.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:25 PM   #8
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For a year or so I used Reaper on an original Surface Pro and it was great (I don't do a lot of midi instruments, but still ran projects with 30+ tracks and tons of plugins).

I recently had the opportunity to switch at Surface Pro 3 (i7, 8GB ram) and it's been even better (slightly larger screen makes it less awkward).

I run a Toshiba hub into the USB when I'm at home that hooks up an extra monitor, Korg NanoPad and Roland Octa capture.

I was happy on a Mac too (not really a hard core Mac or PC guy), but mine was getting old and so I jumped into the Surface line as I also do digital illustration and wanted the pen.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:15 PM   #9
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I think editing MIDI and traversing the menus would be the hardest part, once you found a skin that suits touch and I think a few people have made designs for that in mind.

Reaper would really need to have scalable UI however to work on such devices if they want to support touch + mouse equally. I would hate using a touch interface with a mouse and vice versa a mouse interface with a touch screen, they just are not compatible as is and need a lot of development to unify the two workflows.

Radial menus, context-aware toolbars, non-linear fader/knob movement, marked drag-zones to prevent inaccurate selection, and better double-click (double-touch) functionality are musts for good touch interfaces.

For e.g., for me Reaper would fall apart on a touch screen when:

- Entering pan values. Can't double click to enter value manually
- Ditto fader. Double click resets it, fine. But double clicking the number value does nothing. Come onnnnnn. That's wasted potential.
- Moving tracks around
- Clicking the small folder to make folder tracks button

and probably lots of other stuff I'd quickly find if I got the chance to try it out.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:22 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
and probably lots of other stuff I'd quickly find if I got the chance to try it out.
I find touch to be too imprecise on my Surface, but still useful for larger gestures.

That said, I still use a wireless mouse with mine most times anyway (or the pen, but that's only really helpful in Reaper when drawing complex envelopes), as there are a lot of programs that haven't quite adapted for touch interfaces just yet.
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:05 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Nystagmus View Post
After several years of relentlessly messing around with Microsoft Windows and seeing a lot of design flaws and unnecessary hassles and proprietary software limitations and security holes and bugs (both documented and undocumented), I would NEVER buy a Microsoft product of any type, ESPECIALLY hardware.

I just don't think the company is well run, and I think their products are substandard.

I was recently attracted to a WalMart sale of some cheap smartphones, but when I got there, they were Windows Phones, which was a dealbreaker. Then a few days later I found out that they were cheap because Microsoft discontinued them and support for the entire line because sales were too low.

Don't waste your 2000 dollars and any of that junk. You could spend as little as about 175 and buy a decent used desktop computer, or maybe spend more on a decent new desktop computer.

Then you could save the rest of your money for whatever else it is that you need/want.

Good luck though. Peace
Somebody had a big drink of 'Apple' koolaid.

If you wrote this post 15 years, I would probably agree with you, today... not so much.

Since late in the XP cycle, Microsoft has really upped their game. Windows7 has been great and I have no immediate plans to upgrade to Win8 even though it is reported to be as solid (or better) than Win7.

And I'm sure your 'mileage may vary'.


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Old 12-16-2014, 05:48 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by bluzkat View Post
Since late in the XP cycle, Microsoft has really upped their game. Windows7 has been great and I have no immediate plans to upgrade to Win8 even though it is reported to be as solid (or better) than Win7.
One of MS' latest patches is rated by Forbes as malware...
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:15 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by plush2 View Post
Surface Pro 3 here, i5 256 gb model. I love it.
Same here - reaper runs fine, I mainly use the bluetooth mouse to control. It is fine for the sort of stuff I use the portable for, mainly playback of multiple track, or recording a few live feeds. I havent used lots of plugins yet, live.

I rather like the zooming in and out with the touch screen but all to their own. I've always found Microsoft hardware to be pretty good.
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Old 12-16-2014, 10:11 AM   #14
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Same here - reaper runs fine, I mainly use the bluetooth mouse to control. It is fine for the sort of stuff I use the portable for, mainly playback of multiple track, or recording a few live feeds. I havent used lots of plugins yet, live.

I rather like the zooming in and out with the touch screen but all to their own. I've always found Microsoft hardware to be pretty good.
Surface 3 Pro/256 here. I haven't tried reaper on it but will soon just to see how I like it. I expect it to be just fine though.
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Old 12-30-2014, 05:10 PM   #15
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What kind of audio interface are you using with the surface? does it accept ASIO drivers? Thanks
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Old 01-25-2015, 06:17 PM   #16
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Default Surface Pro vs Surface

I think we need to clarify that a "Surface" is running Windows RT and probably won't be able to run Reaper as it's a separate chipset that isn't Intel x86/x64. Any of the "Surface Pro" models are just standard Intel notebooks under the covers and shouldn't present any problems whatsoever to any regular Windows program.
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:05 AM   #17
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Running Reaper on a couple of tablets, unless you plan on connecting a mouse and keyboard or either of, forget it, its terrible, as is most audio software
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Old 01-26-2015, 11:14 AM   #18
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I think we need to clarify that a "Surface" is running Windows RT and probably won't be able to run Reaper as it's a separate chipset that isn't Intel x86/x64. Any of the "Surface Pro" models are just standard Intel notebooks under the covers and shouldn't present any problems whatsoever to any regular Windows program.
Yea, I was referring to the Surface Pro, the one running full blown Windows 8. Not that I have need of one, but I would LOVE the new Surface Pro 3. Indeed, that could replace my laptop.
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Old 01-26-2015, 12:05 PM   #19
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I've been running REAPER on a Sony Vaio Duo 11 (the direct competition to the MS Surface Pro) for a little over a year now with zero problems. In fact, I have been doing everything on this little Sony that I would've otherwise done on my Q9450 based desktop.

I bought the Sony over the MS Surface Pro because it has much better connectivity (2 x USB3, HDMI, VGA, Gigabit ethernet, SD slot) and Sony typically produce decent quality gear.
Mine is the i5 based model and I run all the CPU intensive stuff that I run on the desktop without issues (u-he Diva, Bazille, ZebraHZ and Hive all run fine as does Ozone 5 Advanced). If I need to run a lot of instances of u-he synths, I freeze tracks as I go.
It also happily runs all my Native Instruments stuff and Superior Drummer 2. I have the sample libraries on a separate SSD mounted in an external USB3 enclosure.

It runs great with my RME Fireface UFX and Motu MIDI Timepiece A/V.

I don't use the touch functions with REAPER and usually have a full sized keyboard and trackball connected to it.

I have had it running with three monitors (the inbuilt touch screen and two external monitors connected via HDMI and VGA) and that configuration is rock solid. Each monitor can happily run at a different resolution too.

So, all up, I am totally happy with this rig. When I purchased it, I was expecting to use it as a supplement to my desktop rig but it has all but replaced it!
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Old 01-26-2015, 04:01 PM   #20
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running reaper on surface pro 3.... Pretty good so far but not done anything crazy with it yet!
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Old 01-27-2015, 04:39 AM   #21
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I'm running Reaper on one of these (now sadly discontinued)

http://au.pcmag.com/samsung-ativ-sma...xe700t1c-a01us

With an Intel Core i5-3317U and 128GB SSD, it's performance seems fine for Reaper though my projects are really fairly small.

It also has a 1920 x 1080 screen. I wouldn't consider anything less.

While the touch screen is great for general use, I don't think DAWs are ready for them yet. You won't suddenly have a good control surface.

Having said all that, I am totally rapt in the concept of the convertible laptop/tablet. If you're looking for a laptop at least have a look at something like a Surface Pro, they are very capable devices. If I was currently in the market for one I'd be looking at the top of the line Surface, Plus the docking station, giving you extra ports etc. Not cheap though.
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:19 AM   #22
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I'm running Reaper on a Surface Pro 3 (the i5 model). I don't use it much for music production (I have a desktop machine for that) but I do use it a lot for live performances. It works great! If there are any flaws in my setup, they're primarily around Reaper's default UI not being very finger friendly. It's more usable with the stylus but that's somewhat at odds with a live performance. I've tried a few skins but I'm not all that happy with any of them. Instead, I hook up an Akai LPD8 and use that as a controller. That setup works great.

As a touch device, the Surface Pro 3 is excellent but it was much better with Windows 8.1 than with Windows 10. That said, Windows 10 feels snappier and a bit more lightweight so there's a trade-off between touchability and performance. The setup I'm using works fine in both operating systems though.

I hope that's helpful.
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Old 03-06-2019, 04:46 PM   #23
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Reaper is terrible on Surface, surprised how unfriendly it is to touch screens still
Install, open Reaper, try to open prefs, whoops, the options menu doesnt even fit on screen and you cant scroll down to get to prefs haha.
It doesnt get any friendlier anywhere else either, faders jump around all over the place using touch, I didnt even bother trying to move items around or anything.
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Old 03-06-2019, 04:49 PM   #24
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Holy crap, I tried insert new MIDI item, it created some weird ass endless MIDI item stack, everytime you move it another is created underneath, Reaper is horrific on Surface, how is it actually this bad !!!!!!!!
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:29 PM   #25
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Its actually completely unusable on touchscreen, it just registers tons of different comnands every time you tap, probably the worst software i have ever come across with touchscreen
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Old 03-06-2019, 05:37 PM   #26
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Ha, I see I posted in this thread before I tried my Surface with Reaper.

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how is it actually this bad !!!!!!!!
Because it isn't. I suppose that would be different story trying to use the touchscreen but that's not a Surface problem, it's a Reaper on touch screen problem. IOW, see the first post below, that huge setup was done on my Surface Pro 3 without issue and recording up to 26 simultaneous tracks and to an micro SD card at that - I think the surface is in the first photograph:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ight=god+candy
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:24 PM   #27
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I have a Surface Pro 3 and am thinking about doing the same thing mentioned up above, using it for live performance. My initial experience with this machine was abysmal; by far the most unreliable computer I've owned...even Microsoft's own dock didn't work well with it, it had trouble displaying on external monitors, and only recognized the micro SD card about 20% of the time. But over the years it has settled down and now seems to be reliable.

I'm sure I could run Reaper on it for recording and editing audio; I'm less convinced it would work for something as demanding as, say, playing Kontakt sample libraries. My live performance needs are very basic: only one instrument at a time (either sampled piano or sampled harp); I may end up using Pianoteq or else trying some SoundFonts to see if they pass muster. Once I get it set up to my liking I'll turn off wifi and never update it; updates seem to be the source of most problems with Windows.

I'm not actually interested in touchscreen; I never use the Surface as a tablet as tablet mode seems to be pretty much a joke in Windows; I use it as a laptop.
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Old 03-06-2019, 10:59 PM   #28
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To me using a laptop for live ("on stage") performance is not a good idea. I would use a kind of more solid and reliably "embedded" system instead, built in a trunk or a rack. -> https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...60&postcount=5 .

-Michael

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Old 03-07-2019, 04:13 AM   #29
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To me using a laptop for live ("on stage") performance is not a good idea.
Thanks -- I agree in general, but in my particular case there's no need for anything more elaborate. I'm only using one instrument on the keyboard per song and only two instruments total on the keyboard during an evening's performance. I wouldn't even need a laptop if I could find a keyboard with good sample libraries of the sounds I want, but so far I haven't. I don't play in a band; we're a duo and we do traditional music...entirely acoustic until now.
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Old 03-07-2019, 07:57 AM   #30
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For such purpose its getting more and more interesting to use a small ARM based device, such as a $ 40 "RASPi" for an "embedded" type of setup or an Android or iOS device for a "Laptop" kind.

Reaper does run on a RASPi, and for Android or iOS you might consider stuff like "Camelot". I seem to remember talks about e.g. PianoTeq running on such devices. SWAM instruments (solo woodwind and strings) are explicitly marketed for this.

-Michael
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:05 AM   #31
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For such purpose its getting more and more interesting to use a small ARM based device, such as a $ 40 "RASPi" for an "embedded" type of setup or an Android or iOS device for a "Laptop" kind.
Be careful, I have at least 20 Pi's and I'll tell you that with it's primary storage being a micro SD, those things (storage) will just go bad out of nowhere, so keep at least one cloned micro SD and keep it accessible for a quick swap out.

I love Pi's but they can be incredibly slow compared to a modern system depending on use.
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Old 03-07-2019, 08:09 AM   #32
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Reaper does run on a RASPi, and for Android or iOS you might consider stuff like "Camelot". I seem to remember talks about e.g. PianoTeq running on such devices. SWAM instruments (solo woodwind and strings) are explicitly marketed for this.
Thanks again for your advice; I'm still quite new to the world of MIDI and electronic music in general, so have a lot to learn. PianoTeq does run on ARM devices so that is an interesting option. SWAM is only woodwinds and strings, neither of which I need; PianoTeq has the exact instruments I need (piano, clavichord, and harp) and they sound good enough for live performance purposes so I'll probably go that route, especially since these are modeled instruments rather than sample libraries so the hardware requirements are pretty minimal.
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:00 PM   #33
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I love Pi's but they can be incredibly slow compared to a modern system depending on use.
I thinks the Pi3 is exceptionally fast regarding the price

-Michael
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Old 03-07-2019, 02:27 PM   #34
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I thinks the Pi3 is exceptionally fast regarding the price

-Michael
I need it fast enough for what I'm doing.
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Old 03-07-2019, 03:29 PM   #35
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Obviously

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Old 03-08-2019, 07:29 AM   #36
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Hi,
What these newish Intel nucs I read about? Not exactly cheap but.....
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:44 PM   #37
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Ha, I see I posted in this thread before I tried my Surface with Reaper.



Because it isn't. I suppose that would be different story trying to use the touchscreen but that's not a Surface problem, it's a Reaper on touch screen problem. IOW, see the first post below, that huge setup was done on my Surface Pro 3 without issue and recording up to 26 simultaneous tracks and to an micro SD card at that - I think the surface is in the first photograph:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....ight=god+candy
Actually it really isnt, even with touchscreen it is partially usable, i reinstalled Reaper as a last resort (never needed that ever before) and it became partially usable, it still needs a good touch theme and menus to be viable ‘ish’
I need to get a pen to try it with that.
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