Old 05-02-2021, 06:52 PM   #41
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Maybe track lanes support the actual item lanes would a alternative to the dichotomy track lanes vs the actual behavior
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:12 AM   #42
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embass script is very handy, although I would consider this topic to be on https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=241604.

I recommend my version of it
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=329
thanks
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Old 05-28-2021, 07:07 AM   #43
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I think that it would not be superfluous to action "Select all items in line." This would be convenient for editing.



Also, this would be useful for mute and solo in the context of the track.


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Old 07-21-2021, 12:26 PM   #44
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Just discover a nice use for item lane





First item lane is mid items,
second one is copy-glued of the first one, then action Apply track FX.
Glued is necessary cause else it can be clicky cause apply FX works per items and doesnt understand legatos between items for eg.
But I like to kee backup of my MIDI. Lane seems appropriate.
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Old 07-21-2021, 03:49 PM   #45
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Is it a little like track versions? I think other people call it playlist although I don't think the name fit the function. Nice thing!
I actually have Multiple items muted in my projects so I can keep options and options this is decently why I am happy to see further development in track lanes. Very good for multiple tasks, versions, comping etc.... when the api comes I imagine very creative tools will arise from it.
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Old 07-21-2021, 11:53 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by daniellumertz View Post
embass script is very handy, although I would consider this topic to be on https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=241604.

I recommend my version of it
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=329
Just wanted to say thank you Daniel (and embass!) for the script! It's awesome! Hopefully the track lanes will work in a similar fashion but inside one track! Really looking forward to the development!
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Old 07-22-2021, 03:53 PM   #47
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Just wanted to say thank you Daniel (and embass!) for the script! It's awesome! Hopefully the track lanes will work in a similar fashion but inside one track! Really looking forward to the development!
Thanks for the kind words hope you are liking it. It was a good idea from embass I just put a GUI made some changes here and there xD. He/she is a nice scripter!
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Old 07-22-2021, 04:50 PM   #48
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I think we definitely need a way to display only one take lane at a time, and action to cycle them. This way, take lanes could really be used as different versions of an editing.
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Old 07-29-2021, 02:08 PM   #49
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Default Fixed Lane Comping - sorted it out

[edit: this clunky custom action does the trick]
[edit 2: yes I know line 2 is redundant]



Bit of a FR, but I'm not sure if this is already possible via scripts/actions.

If I've got, say, six vocal takes in one track, in Fixed Lanes mode they play in unison. I can mute them all, and use a shortcut key to toggle the mute of each take in turn - great, comping getting easier. But that takes one click/keypress per take.

What would be awesome would be an EXOR unmute action per track, ie clicking/keying one take would mute the others in the track, without worrying about how they're stacked. The first click would isolate the clicked take, etc.

(I made one custom action to do this with tracks and assigned keys Q W A S for 4 takes, but it depends on having the same track numbers every time, and you had to follow a sequence, and also explode takes to start with . In other multi-item track modes, I can't quite work out what the protocol is. Sometimes it's just one take plays, sometimes two or more; hard to tell how it works).
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File Type: jpg EXOR Unmute.jpg (9.2 KB, 755 views)
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Old 07-29-2021, 02:35 PM   #50
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Default FR: Media Item Lane Visibility and API

For reference, I repost here what I posted ion a pre release thread:
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...96&postcount=2



FR:

About Media Lane, has the possibility of displaying only one item lane being considered ?
This could make Media Lane be useful to have several editing versions of certain items on a track, or MIDI version on one lane and a rendered version and a second one etc, but this would require being able to display one lane at a time, and surely two options to cycle between visible lane. There could be an option to automatically mute hidden lane.

Also, API to set/get item lane ID would help making advanced actions.
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Old 07-30-2021, 04:32 PM   #51
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I think the FR to only show/hide lanes, and also the ability to solo some of them can be very good. Depending of how it will be implemented.

so +1 I think.

Other Subject I think Fixed Item lanes on/off option should be by default at right click on a track.
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Old 07-31-2021, 02:28 PM   #52
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Default How hard can it be....

Just implement Track alternatives (logic) Playlists (ProTools) Layers (Studio-one) etc… like every other DAW on the planet and get it over with….
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Old 07-31-2021, 03:43 PM   #53
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Just implement Track alternatives (logic) Playlists (ProTools) Layers (Studio-one) etc… like every other DAW on the planet and get it over with….
Exactly this. Seems like reaper has to go its own way for no reason. There are perfect solutions out there. Please just adopt them.
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Old 07-31-2021, 03:54 PM   #54
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Quote:
Just implement Track alternatives (logic) Playlists (ProTools) Layers (Studio-one) etc… like every other DAW on the planet and get it over with….
What are differences / similarities between them ? Some screenshots maybe ?
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Old 08-01-2021, 12:00 AM   #55
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In PT you create a sub track per take. Normal workflow is: You leave the recorded and unedited material in that subtrack and create a new subtrack per comp. You can always choose which subtrack wikl be your main track. So jumping between versions is quite easy. Besides you always have access to your original material and can listen to whatever you recorded without needing to undo anything. That is quite important for many people. Theres often a situation where clients come an say: "I think we had a better take for this part, it was number 4 I think". You can quickly go there and listen to the unedited take and compare it to your comp or any different recording.
Many other DAWs dont allow easy access to different comps/versions and let you only edit within the recorded material. This is exactly why so many people use PT. It really shines in that usecase.
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Old 08-01-2021, 01:30 AM   #56
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Logic has the most advanced comp/track versions system imo.did you check it? It combines all of the features from any other daw.
Having said that reaper's implementation is way closer to cubase which i was using for many years and it was great and super useful. The only thing it's missing is an option to automute the overlapping parts vertically relative to the top or bottom lane.
Personally and since it's closer to cubase way, i prefer to make media lanes with this way and later to upgrade the existing comp system as the other daws.
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Old 08-01-2021, 03:25 PM   #57
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Logic has the most advanced comp/track versions system imo.did you check it? It combines all of the features from any other daw.
I hope so much that Reaper has that one day too
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:04 PM   #58
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I hope so much that Reaper has that one day too
I still think the PT way is better. Quick swipe is a nice addition that would make PT playlists perfect. But the big advantage in PT is being able to edit your comp without affecting the source material. Once you copied (or quick swiped) audio material to your main playlist, you can cut gaps, make fades, trim things but your source material stays the same. So you still can listen to all original takes without any problems. It's so important to have this possibility.
Besides: Every playlist has its own solo buttton so you can listen to it without changing your whole comp first.
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Old 08-01-2021, 11:30 PM   #59
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Logic has the most advanced comp/track versions system imo.did you check it? It combines all of the features from any other daw.

1+ for logic style comping, it's awesome.
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Old 08-02-2021, 05:51 AM   #60
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Logic nailed it!
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Old 08-02-2021, 07:33 AM   #61
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Logic nailed it!
multi-track comping seems to be quite awkward after watching some videos. I recommend watching some pro tools playlist tutorials ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Sj...CDeKlI&index=1

pros: it keeps the original material intact as you never touch the original items but just copies, that you moved to your "main playlist". The Main playlist is no comp representation but a copy of the rough material you recorded. Playlists together with group editing (track based, NOT item based!) is king in my opinion. And no, I'm no pro tools fanboy, actually I hate that DAW quite a lot. But playlists and group edit are some of the few reasons why so many people use it.
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Old 08-02-2021, 07:52 AM   #62
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I still think the PT way is better. Quick swipe is a nice addition that would make PT playlists perfect. But the big advantage in PT is being able to edit your comp without affecting the source material. Once you copied (or quick swiped) audio material to your main playlist, you can cut gaps, make fades, trim things but your source material stays the same. So you still can listen to all original takes without any problems. It's so important to have this possibility.
Besides: Every playlist has its own solo buttton so you can listen to it without changing your whole comp first.
Agree with this!
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Old 08-02-2021, 10:35 AM   #63
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Agree with this!
Ditto.

I’m wondering if the nomenclature is confusion to anyone else (i.e. track lanes vs media item lanes). It seems to me that track lanes is more appropriate as not to conflate the current takes implementation. They could nicely coexist if existing method remains closely connected with items while the fixed lanes would be clearly connected to tracks (also included as a track grouping parameter). It seems this would allow users to choose a preferred method for handling takes (in the generic sense) and even allow for potentially excellent hybrid methods.

It would be cool to have a toolbar button indicating whether I’m set to record into a new “item take” vs a new “track lane.”
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Old 08-03-2021, 04:36 AM   #64
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Logics workflow seems a bit easier to me to comp things on the fly right after recording. However, I could live with either option, since Reapers comping can't compete with both of them (at the moment).
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Old 08-03-2021, 07:14 AM   #65
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Perfect solution for me would be PT workflow including logic's quick swipe option that copies source matetial to the main playlist directly after swiping. I think these two things could be easily combined.
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Old 08-03-2021, 07:17 AM   #66
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Logics workflow seems a bit easier to me to comp things on the fly right after recording. However, I could live with either option, since Reapers comping can't compete with both of them (at the moment).
Agreed. Also there are different ways to comp with scissors and swipe razor edits, also you can move the selections both vertically and horizontally, plus many more:

Take folders:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vepaE-H4EU

Track alternatives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7fPNlm0ots

Take folders vs Track Alternatives:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7zXaKeqnfo

Comp and edit Multi tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiEudwAu1Vs
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Old 08-04-2021, 01:28 AM   #67
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multi-track comping seems to be quite awkward after watching some videos. I recommend watching some pro tools playlist tutorials ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Sj...CDeKlI&index=1

pros: it keeps the original material intact as you never touch the original items but just copies, that you moved to your "main playlist". The Main playlist is no comp representation but a copy of the rough material you recorded. Playlists together with group editing (track based, NOT item based!) is king in my opinion. And no, I'm no pro tools fanboy, actually I hate that DAW quite a lot. But playlists and group edit are some of the few reasons why so many people use it.
I really agree with Glass n Klang. Another nice feature of pro tools playlist is that you can even edit an individual take or group of takes into a playlist. You can do almost everything, like moving tracks back or forward, splitting and joining items and much more.
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Old 08-05-2021, 11:03 AM   #68
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Agree here. It's hard to imagine a system more usable than Pro Tools style playlists. Logic recognized this and implemented Track Alternatives.

If there's a better solution I'm all ears, but IMO there's a reason why this functionality is almost ubiquitous across DAWs at this point.

I've been using Reaper for almost 10 years and this is the one feature that makes me tempted to switch to PT. As has been discussed many times, Reaper's take system simply doesn't hold up in a pro session workflow even though many users have found workarounds.

Basically there are so many use cases where it's necessary to "back up" tracks in their entirety. I can sort of work around by using folder tracks, but it's inconvenient and won't work across multiple tracks at once (e.g. stacks of vocals).

Beyond take-comping, it is incredibly useful to be able to duplicate playlist for all tracks and do a shortened radio edit, while saving the old edit. Or render/glue a bunch of vocal edits together for Melodyne while saving all the original items and crossfades underneath.

@Justin and others - PLEASE consider a true playlist / track versions / track alternatives functionality! It would truly make Reaper the perfect DAW for me and so many others.
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Old 08-17-2021, 03:25 PM   #69
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What I'd like to do with media lanes, that I can't atmo:

1. Drag, paste or razor edit a bunch of takes to a track, so that they assign themselves to separate lanes (that will play in unison unless I choose otherwise).

2. Use the up/down keys to move a media item from track to track, knowing that it will automatically occupy a discrete media lane (?if target track is in 'media lane mode', otherwise default behaviour). Currently this is only partly possible.

3. Record a take in a 'vacant' media lane alongside an existing item. If I record several takes, a lane will be generated for each take (?in 'media lane mode').

4. Incrementally and severally select the contents of each track media lane, say by shift-clicking the track number (current behaviour is double-click on track number to select all items).

Essentially, tracks in 'media lane mode' would handle takes/items in tracks the same way tracks are handled in folders, just that they'd be automatic.
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Old 08-26-2021, 05:28 AM   #70
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how about lanes for automation items?
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Old 08-26-2021, 05:36 AM   #71
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how about lanes for automation items?
It should be a logical extension of a TRACK lane functionality. I'm envisioning Track lanes and Media Item lanes to coexist and compliment each other (even with some feature overlap).
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Old 08-26-2021, 07:30 AM   #72
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I think this is my most wanted feature....i hope this is going to happen soon.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:13 AM   #73
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To me the protools playlist system is the most clunky and bad reference, after 10 years with digidesign/avid and after i got comfortable with the take system, i’d say i much prefer Reaper takes and comps instead of playlists.
No chunks of audio to promote, no need to create lanes before recording (if you don’t do it the underlaying clip will be buried by the new one and you loose all the edit unless you are loop recording).
Also no multiple comp can be created without creating new lanes, duplicating things and promoting again.
The empty playlist should be always set to the main and every time you need to switch to create a new one it’s difficult to keep track of what is what.
Also, no different comps for different clips.
Playlists are track based, and that’s a limitation when you need to audition and switch the comps for certain sections on the same track.

Just my opinion, but don’t be so focused on protools style playlists.

PS: i asked on this forum to implement PT playlist when i first switched to Reaper...i changed my mind in about a year from that post

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Old 08-27-2021, 01:37 AM   #74
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I am with you I don't like the old PT playlists. Not the right way ...
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Old 08-27-2021, 02:49 AM   #75
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Quote:
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To me the protools playlist system is the most clunky and bad reference, after 10 years with digidesign/avid and after i got comfortable with the take system, i’d say i much prefer Reaper takes and comps instead of playlists.

PS: i asked on this forum to implement PT playlist when i first switched to Reaper...i changed my mind in about a year from that post
Things have moved on a bit in 7? years... Can't find that post btw (it intrigues me, because I find the take system extremely counter intuitive)
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Old 08-27-2021, 07:36 AM   #76
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Yep, maybe is something i posted in some Italian Forum or other boards across the internet, was a long time ago, but yes...i complained a lot about take system.

My recording workflow is heavily based on "Time selection autopunch".
Every time i need multiple takesi make specific time selections so i don't end up with empty lanes or messy endings with chopped micro-items as a results from stopping the transport at different times.
Time selection autopunch just allow me to make precise takes.
When it comes to comping i just use some shortcuts i made.
I just do a time selection of the bit i want to change, hit "B" (separate that bit of audio from the rest of the item) scroll through takes while listening (T or Shift+T) and lock the comp (shift+<).

So it's like: time selection, B, T, Shift+<
Done.
Than i save my comp, maybe i save 2 or 3 different ones that can be recalled easily through right click menu or shortcuts.

In Protools my workflow was like:

- Record first pass
- Create new playlist
- make second pass
- create new playlist
- make third pass
- create new playlist
- make fourth pass
... and so on.

When you are done and you need to comp:

- create new playlist
- solo the lane to audition
- make a time selection
- promote to active playlist
- solo the lane to audition
- make a time selection
- promote to active playlist
...and so on until you are done.

lots of clicks, lots of operations to do something can be done with : Record, time selection, B, T, shift+>
To me it's A LOT faster, especially during recording (you don't need to create lanes every time).

BTW i used PT playlist from when the were first introduced (i think was V8, don't remember V7 having playlists) until PT 12.5.

I don't know if something changed along the way during the last years, but Avid isn't known to be "fast" in bug fixing or introducing features...people like me remember how long we waited for non-TDM plugin delay compensation :P
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Old 08-27-2021, 08:04 AM   #77
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Thanks for the extensive explanation!

My workflow is:
Record (could be loop record, choose best parts. swipe comping)
Maybe punch in what needs changing (where and as much as I like, could also be with a punch in loop, they become "layers", choose the best take or part with swipe comping etc)
Done
Sometimes a new idea, sound, part, variation etc…
Save previous track as an alternative, with everything… automation etc.
Record
Rinse and repeat as much as I see fit

And everything stays intelligible…
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Old 08-27-2021, 08:07 AM   #78
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- create new playlist
- solo the lane to audition
- make a time selection
- promote to active playlist
- solo the lane to audition
- make a time selection
- promote to active playlist
...and so on until you are done.
- create time selection
- hit "B" (separate that bit of audio from the rest of the item)
- scroll through takes while listening (T or Shift+T)
- create time selection
- hit "B" (separate that bit of audio from the rest of the item)
- scroll through takes while listening (T or Shift+T)
...and so on until you are done
– lock the comp
lots of clicks, lots of operations, eh?

Now consider what happens if you don't keep all your takes within identical time bounds (say you want to punch only one word on take 3, or – god forbid – you want to take just the beginning of the second word from take one)... exponentially more clicks/operations and a complete mess!
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:24 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRTaylorMusic View Post
- create time selection
- hit "B" (separate that bit of audio from the rest of the item)
- scroll through takes while listening (T or Shift+T)
- create time selection
- hit "B" (separate that bit of audio from the rest of the item)
- scroll through takes while listening (T or Shift+T)
...and so on until you are done
– lock the comp
lots of clicks, lots of operations, eh?

Now consider what happens if you don't keep all your takes within identical time bounds (say you want to punch only one word on take 3, or – god forbid – you want to take just the beginning of the second word from take one)... exponentially more clicks/operations and a complete mess!
Actually what i do in reaper contain both the first and the second part of the list i made for the PT workflow, not only the second, as you quoted, also you don’t have to solo a lane to listen to it, that’s very irritating.
With takes you hit T or just select a piece with a click and you’re good to go.
Creating empty lanes every time you need to record is really tedious too.
BTW, the fact that i like the take system is not a statement that is perfect.
My statement was to not take ProTools as the “state of the art”, because it isn’t.

Also i really NEVER have punch-ins with different lenghts, and if i have to punch in a specifica part i split BEFORE the actual punch in, so the previous and subsequent items don’t have empty playlist.

Now, applying an alternative to take system to take lanes should be handled in a way it’s not clunky as PT.
For example:
- implement an option to add a lane every time items overlaps (it actually exist with current behaviour in free item positioning, i don’t know if this is a thing with take lanes)...that’s one click less than PT

- quick audition of lanes through keyboard shortcuts

- make a new lane from selected items in different lanes (comp) (another several click less than PT sinceypu have to promote each bit of audio SEPARATELY in PT by selecting and promoting each piece)

Maybe it’s a better way to keep things efficient

Edit: i do a lot of vocal editings, often i change even syllabes because of better tuning or pronounce.
Never had problems with take system and it’s way quicker if you know how to handle it
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Last edited by bigjoe; 08-27-2021 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 08-27-2021, 01:48 PM   #80
JRTaylorMusic
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[Shift + arrow up/down] is like [T / Shift+T] – no need to mouse with solo buttons.

If hitting a keystroke to make a new playlist is too time-consuming (and your used to having the same time selection anyway), you'd probably use loop recording which automatically creates a new playlist for each pass.

All that aside, I typically have multiple punches on any given take. For example, if the talent doesn't make it all the way through the song, we can pick up just before they stopped and not have to call it a "take" until we get through the whole song (or whenever we're otherwise ready). Trying to do this in REAPER is frustrating at best (if you're okay putting up with workarounds and caveats).

It's great that you're happy with REAPER's current implementation, but it's wrong to call PT's clunky. Regardless, I don't see any threat to the current implementation. TRACK Lanes would be entirely supplemental, and it would be invaluable to users like me while completely transparent and non-disruptive to users like yourself. Everybody wins.
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