Old 12-25-2011, 03:09 PM   #161
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Can someone help me out with some advice for hooking up a sub to these please?
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Old 12-25-2011, 05:22 PM   #162
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Can someone help me out with some advice for hooking up a sub to these please?
Output 1 and 2 from your interface connect to the inputs of the sub.
Outputs from the sub connect to the monitors.

If the sub doesn't have outputs, it's the wrong kind of sub for mixing.
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:15 PM   #163
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Thanks, EpicSounds.

I was thinking of adding a Yamaha HS10W, any opinions?
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:13 AM   #164
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Thanks, EpicSounds.

I was thinking of adding a Yamaha HS10W, any opinions?
I haven't tried that one personally but I hear its good. Being an Active subwoofer that will have all the connections and crossover options you need.
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:15 AM   #165
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I already use Tannoy dual concentric monitors, so I am used to the "co-axial" sound.
Anyone with similar experience actually heard these?
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:21 AM   #166
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I have heard Tannoys but not enough to do a comparison.

Gentlemen, please do an experiment for me. Play any song with decent low frequency content. Set volume to around 87 dB. Now instantiate ReaEQ and cut everything above 100 Hz.

Do you hear clean bass? Or do you hear something additional?

I hear something that shouldn't be there and I don't know if it's the speakers or my MBox 2 distorting.
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:48 AM   #167
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I have heard Tannoys but not enough to do a comparison.

Gentlemen, please do an experiment for me. Play any song with decent low frequency content. Set volume to around 87 dB. Now instantiate ReaEQ and cut everything above 100 Hz.

Do you hear clean bass? Or do you hear something additional?

I hear something that shouldn't be there and I don't know if it's the speakers or my MBox 2 distorting.
Heading out to a gig - will do this tomorrow and report back.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:06 PM   #168
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Thank you drybij!

I love the way these sound but I can't work with them like this. I really hope the problem is in my signal chain and not in the monitors.
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:24 PM   #169
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..I love the way these sound but I can't work with them like this. I really hope the problem is in my signal chain and not in the monitors.
Is it only in one channel or both? If both, is it worse in one or the same in both?
If it is only one channel (or worse in one), try swapping the left and right monitors physically and see if the problem changes (that would indicate a faulty monitor) or stays on the same side (indicating something other than the monitors).
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Old 12-31-2011, 01:56 PM   #170
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Thanks Dannii, but my testing has been thorough except for one thing, I have only been using my MBox2 to test. It's in all three monitors (Equator sent me an extra to test) though one is worse than the others. Swapping channels doesn't change anything. I haven't tried hooking them to my PC sound card because I don't want to look for the adapters right now since I've been out of town and I'm trying to enjoy my New Year without getting bogged down in my normal day-to-day, which seems lately to consist only of fixing problems and not producing much new. I guess it's the cycle of life.

I first noticed the noise running sweeps, then progressed to filtered pink noise and music. It's quite reproducible and takes only a minute to check so I'm looking forward to some help.
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:21 PM   #171
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Sounds like their customer service is quite good.
If it is in all three but one is worse, that sounds like an issue with the monitors to me. Not having a pair here myself, I can't run any tests but it looks like you'll have a reply from drybij later on.

What happens of you block the ports when you run the problem frequency through them? Set the level to where the noise is just becoming obvious and then try blocking the port with your hand while the tone is playing. See if the noise stops. If so, I'd be suspecting something mechanical in the woofer (or even possibly something with the cabinet fittings or PCB and it's components/wiring vibrating).
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Old 12-31-2011, 02:52 PM   #172
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Equator Audio customer service is excellent, I'm working with Marty.

Originally there was a problem with connecting wires vibrating, but that sound was much louder, though similar, and has been corrected. Also some reports of noise through the PS2 port, but I never had that. All components that might leak air are sealed with some gunk.

Blocking the port does ameliorate the symptom, and I suspect the driver as well. But I cannot draw a conclusion; since my testing methodology is ad hoc and unscientific, my observations are anecdotal.

I've really tried to make sure I'm not testing these beyond spec. They're rated to 102 dB and I've taken pains to make sure I'm not even close to that.

But previewing kick drum sounds in BFD Eco for example is impossible.

<edit> I take that back, my testing has actually been quite methodical and scientific. I just have a bit more to do.

<edit> I think I've been playing them too loud, more later.
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Old 01-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #173
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I used the mda test tone VST to generate sine wave frequencies at 100Hz and below. Starting around 75Hz, I hear an additional sound which I can only describe as a breathy sort of overtone, not quite a cabinet rattle. I can't really say it's something vibrating either. I hadn't noticed this until now because I haven't been mixing very much. The sound seems most pronounced at 60Hz.

I'm tempted to take the back off the cabinet and see if it's just something resonating inside, though I don't know if that will affect my warranty.

Edit: It's happening in both the left and right speakers. I'm not playing too loud, only about 60db.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:08 PM   #174
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I think you either hear the port breathing, or the onset of woofer clipping. Rather than a sine wave, try running some pink noise.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #175
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ok - tried pink noise and used reaeq to low-pass 100HZ and below. At around 70db I start to hear a little 'rattle' in both speakers. But you have me questioning whether it's a problem or not.

I can say this though. I've had my cheap-ass Samson Resolv65a speakers much louder than this and they did not break up in any way.

That being said, these speakers still sound great at lower levels.
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Old 01-02-2012, 12:58 PM   #176
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I've been doing this for years and I've never been stuck on this kind of problem before, which means I must have a big hole in my learning somewhere so this is kind of exciting I guess, being on the threshold of learning something new.

I'm going through dannii's K14 calibration procedure now to see what I can learn.

It seems Tonehenge or someone else would have popped in.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:02 PM   #177
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can you describe what you are hearing?
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:26 PM   #178
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Say you have a thumpy kick drum that's all low end. It will sound like the click of a speed metal beater has been added. If you're playing a sine wave then you will hear what sounds like an upper harmonic.

At this point I'm convinced it's the sound of the woofer's voice coil edge making contact with the tweeter's wave guide. Only a concentric speaker would do this and that's why I've never heard it before on other speakers

If I set pink noise on one speaker to about 90 dB and filter it I can just begin to hear the distortion. This is much louder than I would mix so not an issue. Still, these are rated to 102 dB and I don't see how.

If I set my MBox 2 to max volume out (+4), and the D5's to lowest sensitivity (+4 setting) then play pink noise at -0, I do get a perfect 84 dB or so at listening position and bass at that level is clean. It's only when you can really see the woofers jumping and feel the ports blowing that you get into trouble. I also haven't been able to hear that clicking sound while monitoring source material, only when I filter out all the masking higher frequency content. So the clicking isn't a problem for checking mixes at higher levels I suppose. I would really like to hear Equator's position.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:28 PM   #179
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...I'm going through dannii's K14 calibration procedure now to see what I can learn....
Prepare for a whole new world of mixing freedom!!! Bob Katz certainly deserves an award or ten for his work in standing against the LOUDNESS WARS!!!
I'm pretty excited about the LUFS (EBU R128) spec too. That is along similar lines to Bob's K-System.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:31 PM   #180
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The sound I'm hearing could be the same clicking. I was thinking the woofer was somehow clipping at the end of its travel. I hadn't considered that it might actually be making contact with the tweeter. If I push it to 90db, its quite audible.

Quote:
MBox 2 to max volume out (+4), and the D5's to lowest sensitivity (+4 setting) then play pink noise at -0, I do get a perfect 84 dB or so at listening position and bass at that level is clean
Ok - I did this on my Delta 1010 (+4 on the output and on the Equator sensitivity) and I'm getting 84dB as well. If I low-pass the pink noise at 100Hz, the clicking is just barely audible when Reaper's faders are at 0.

Hmph.

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Old 01-02-2012, 01:33 PM   #181
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Thanks drybij.

Kudos to you Dannii for pushing the issue, and of course for the excellent instructions in your downloads. You've provided the whole package which is a massive amount of work and non-trivial in the extreme.

BTW, your latest beta still has a cursed phase button!
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:34 PM   #182
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..At this point I'm convinced it's the sound of the woofer's voice coil edge making contact with the tweeter's wave guide....
If so, that can't be a good thing!! I'm not sure how the VC could hit the waveguide only at higher levels though unless it is physically deforming at higher SPL's

Or am I misunderstanding what you're describing here? Are you talking about the voice coil polling? That's usually a nasty cracking sound due to over excursion and will quickly kill the VC.
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Old 01-02-2012, 01:41 PM   #183
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Wow! This topic is moving fast!!! Hard for me to keep up with replies!!!

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...Kudos to you Dannii for pushing the issue, and of course for the excellent instructions in your downloads. You've provided the whole package which is a massive amount of work and non-trivial in the extreme.
I should get the latest version uploaded. There's a few WALTER tweaks in the latest one.
The only catch with doing detailed instructions is that it isn't a quick thing to redo all the images in the instructions each time I tweak the theme!! Although I could probably get away without doing image updates for this theme update.
The instructions did take some time to put together but nowhere near as much time as the theme itself.
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BTW, your latest beta still has a cursed phase button!
Ha!!! I actually agree with you but I'm kinda biased (could that be considered a pun here?) by all the hardware consoles I've used over the decades with the dreaded 'phase' symbol on them!!! lol
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:03 PM   #184
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I need the phase button, but the hint should say polarity.

I'm taking a picture because my terminology is wrong. The voice coil itself can't be touching anything...
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:14 PM   #185
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[img]http://img822.**************/img822/7775/d5closeup.png[/img]

OK, the woofer cone inside edge is glued to the tube. The woofer and the tube move together as an assembly.

My speculation is that the tube edge is contacting the waveguide. I can't get calipers in there to measure though. It looks like the wave guide bulges out a little, but I don't know. This is the type of speculation for which the internet is infamous, but so be it. 99% chance I'm wrong, regardless, the noise is there well below 102 dB.
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Old 01-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #186
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Hmmmm... definitely looks like a very small gap between the voice coil former (the tube) and the pole piece. I'm assuming the waveguide and pole piece are one unit here (could well be wrong though). If the former isn't glued to the woofer cone exactly in line with the pole piece, I could see that being an issue at longer cone excursions.
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:24 PM   #187
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Are you sure it isn't the voice coil hitting the back of the magnet at the other end of the excursion limit? Very common for that to happen and 'click' under the conditions you described. Regardless of the specs if you can feel the puffing air from the port at a distance of a couple feet and its enough to say push your hair or blow out a candle, then thats too much for that speaker.
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Old 01-02-2012, 04:52 PM   #188
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Are you sure it isn't the voice coil hitting the back of the magnet at the other end of the excursion limit?
That sounds like a perfect explanation, thanks! I'll record samples of the clicking, as well as the chuffing you can hear on sweeps.

The DSP in these is doing some really arcane things, but it's obviously not being used to prevent these artifacts and I don't know why not.

Right now I'm almost four ft. from the speakers which in this small room is certainly in the mid field. Maybe if they were only two ft. away they'd be in the direct field for which they are designed, plus be a bit louder.

I don't know if I could track on these but I'm keeping them to mix.
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:02 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Are you sure it isn't the voice coil hitting the back of the magnet at the other end of the excursion limit? Very common for that to happen and 'click' under the conditions you described...
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That sounds like a perfect explanation, thanks! I'll record samples of the clicking, as well as the chuffing you can hear on sweeps.....
That's pretty much what I was talking about earlier....
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.....Are you talking about the voice coil polling? That's usually a nasty cracking sound due to over excursion and will quickly kill the VC.
As I mentioned though, it is usually quite a sudden and nasty sound. Polling isn't gentle!! It is the kind of sound that makes you leap for the master mute!
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Old 01-02-2012, 05:11 PM   #190
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That sounds like a perfect explanation, thanks! I'll record samples of the clicking, as well as the chuffing you can hear on sweeps.

The DSP in these is doing some really arcane things, but it's obviously not being used to prevent these artifacts and I don't know why not.

Right now I'm almost four ft. from the speakers which in this small room is certainly in the mid field. Maybe if they were only two ft. away they'd be in the direct field for which they are designed, plus be a bit louder.

I don't know if I could track on these but I'm keeping them to mix.
Sounds like you're on the right track. I can't say that is the problem for sure without being there but a sweep (especially the manual/analog type) is pretty much the be all/end all method to finding every possible issue with a speaker. Well, a lit cigarette to find air leaks squeaks in at a respective #2 but the sweep will find those as well. I rebuilt speakers (not enclosures but rewinding coils etc) for about 7 years but that was so long ago that I can't speak with much certainty these days.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:45 PM   #191
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Q8's are now available direct at $1,000/pr, marked down from $3,000/pr.

Hot damn!
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:41 PM   #192
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Q8's are now available direct at $1,000/pr, marked down from $3,000/pr.

Hot damn!
holy crap, don't say that.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:04 PM   #193
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Wow! Great news about the Q8. Back on the D5 issue. This may be elementary, but have you considered that you might actually be overloading the D5 preamps? I had that problem with my Event ALP5s. It turned out that I have to keep the sensitivity at ~15dB to to use my A/I output at max. If I put the sensitivity up to 0dB, I'd have to keep the A/I output at ~5. That's the way these things are calibrated.

I gotta say, that D5 woofer voice coil looks like a design flaw. There is a good chance that crap and even magnetic particles will get stuck in there over time. That's a deal breaker for me.
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:19 PM   #194
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Default On an other note...

Got the "carrying case" in the mail today (they were on backorder) - and:

wait for it...

Big problems.

The case is not even close to the correct size to carry a pair of these. I can post a picture, but it would be embarassing. Don't know what happened here, but these cases are maybe big enough to lay one of these on it's side (the only way the zippered top will close) and then put cables, etc. on either end. In any configuration with two speakers in the case, the sides are WAY too tight on the controls and speaker itself and the top won't come within 4 inches of being able to be zippered shut.

Not sure what to think at this point given the audio issues and now the carrying case snafu - one of the main reasons for doing this was to have a mobile tracking set of nearfields. I did listen to them for several hours and even put some mid-level stuff through them for about 8-10 hours for a small break-in period. They sounded very neutral and EQ changes were very easy to hear. I just need to be able to carry them safely and easily....will keep the thread updated after I hear back from them.

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Old 02-16-2012, 05:42 PM   #195
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Dang, and I was told that the samples looked great. My case was supposed to get here today.

I thought the cables would go in a separate zippered compartment but apparently not.

Maybe we can get a tradein on the 8 inchers.

@Narcoleptigon: I've tried all different combination of input sensitivity. I think the speakers just aren't designed to get real loud, but they sound fantastic. The sweet spot is unbelievable, something that didn't exist before the advent of DSP.
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Old 02-16-2012, 05:59 PM   #196
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Dang, and I was told that the samples looked great. My case was supposed to get here today.

I thought the cables would go in a separate zippered compartment but apparently not.

Maybe we can get a tradein on the 8 inchers.

@Narcoleptigon: I've tried all different combination of input sensitivity. I think the speakers just aren't designed to get real loud, but they sound fantastic. The sweet spot is unbelievable, something that didn't exist before the advent of DSP.
A zippered compartment (rather flat) that spans the "back" of the case that I suppose would carry a few cables if rolled very neatly. The big issue is the overall central compartment size, however - it just doesn't come close to being correctly sized.
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:12 PM   #197
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Another shallow review of the type I've come to expect from Mix:
http://mixonline.com/gear/reviews/eq...onitor_review/

The guy didn't even bother to go online and search for response charts. Just because you're a guitar player doesn't give you an excuse to not show a LITTLE technical insight. LOL
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Old 02-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #198
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Default pictures...

of the case....couldn't resist:



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Old 02-16-2012, 06:18 PM   #199
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D'oh. I can't believe they just drop shipped these without someone in California actually trying one.

Is that padding I see on the sides at least?
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:27 AM   #200
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D'oh. I can't believe they just drop shipped these without someone in California actually trying one.

Is that padding I see on the sides at least?
There's a bit of padding - actually probably the right amount of padding for a light, portable type of case.

I also can't believe these went out - it's actually quite funny from a certain point of view :-/
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