Old 01-24-2006, 04:07 PM   #1
Ben Zero
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 678
Default Editing functionality that I think REAPER needs

As (another) Vegas user , I'm loving the way REAPER is heading. I know you've been concentrating lately on the routing and mixing side of things, but I'd like to throw in some feature ideas from the editing side that I think would be really useful. All of these features will be familar to users of a certain app by Sony Media Software

1. The crossfade functionality is fantastic, but would be nice if it was taken further. In Vegas you can use CTRL+ALT to move the position of a crossfade whilst retain its length. Great for perfect music edits.

2. Would be good to be able to 'slip' an event/clip, whilst still keeping its original length in tact, ie using audio that's there but currently not seen or played on the multitrack. Hope I'm making sense. This is currently achieved by clicking ALT+dragging within an event in Vegas.

3. 'Ripple', as Vegas calls it. This is the ability to grab an event/clip and everything to the right of that clip (including automatation envelopes, etc) moves with that clip. Like a temporary grouping of everything to the right of that clip. Also a way of having this on a per track basis only, so only everything to the right of the clip on its track moves.

4. Explorer and Media pool windows, perhaps 'nestable' with the mixer so that one can flick between the three. Explorer is basically a media explorer where you can preview files before dragging them to the multitrack. Media Pool has the same functionality, but only includes files that are within the session already. Plus perhaps like the ability to replace one existing session file with another. Hope that makes sense!

5. Event/clip mute. Maybe it's there already, but haven't seen it.

6. Something like Vegas' Trimmer window - very useful for grabbing bits from long voice or vocal sessions and dragging them into the multitrack.

7. The ability to just use an event's left or right channels, but panned to centre, or to combine L+R to mono.

9. All the event take options we have in Vegas, as Pipeline mentions in another post.

10. Eventually, and obviously I can see this is something that could come later, would be nice to see CTRL+event edge drag for timestretching, pitch shifting and resampling the clips on the multitrack.

Hopefully at least some of that makes sense. Keep up the fantastic work Justin!

Ben
Ben Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 04:19 PM   #2
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 12,435
Default

It pretty much all makes sense! But we'll see. Right now I have alt bound to disabling autocrossfades. otherwise making it 'slip' would be pretty straightforward...

-Justin
Justin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 04:21 PM   #3
Ben Zero
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London, England
Posts: 678
Default

Cool! Well, doesn't have to be alt really - shift, ctrl... whatever modifier keys you have spare

Thanks

Ben
Ben Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 04:25 PM   #4
Justin
Administrator
 
Justin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 12,435
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Zero
Cool! Well, doesn't have to be alt really - shift, ctrl... whatever modifier keys you have spare

Thanks

Ben
That's the problem... shift toggles snapping, ctrl ignores grouping... soo....

Justin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 09:37 PM   #5
Rednroll
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,230
Default

Yep, I concur with Ben's suggestions. The Slip and Slide Editing features are what has kept us on the Vegas band wagon for a long time. Slip=Alt button, and works on the Head or Tail event depending on which one the mouse is over. Slide Edit Point= Cntrl+Alt. No problem changing the key assignments to something else.
Also, very useful in the editing department are the Vegas Numeric keys 4/6, 1/3, and 2/8.

You have to put the NUM/LOCK on the numeric keypad in Vegas. 4 and 6 nudge events an amount depending on the current Zoom level that you're at, which I actually don't care for in Vegas, since I'm always zooming in and out and never have an indication of what that "nudge" value is. I wish it was a user definable nudge amount that is independant of the zoom level.
I usually use numeric keys 1 and 3 because of that, 1 and 3 will ALWAYS nudge the event 1 frame at a time independant of the zoom level, which is pretty good for most editing. This is particularly useful when setting a loop section and then nudging the event until the edit sounds right.

Numeric 2 & 8 allow you to move an event onto another track without moving it's position on the timeline. I prefer this method rather than dragging with the mouse, because I always have a tendancy to move the event right or left when trying to drag it to the track above or below it.

I feel like I might be missing some of the keyboard short-cuts on some features at this point, since this is my first test drive. You probably haven't had a lot of time to work on the Help file, but it would be nice to see just the keyboard short-cuts for now, so we aren't making suggestions on stuff you have already done and we can take some of the guess work out of it.

Other things I miss:
1. Event ASR- Currently I see Event Volume envelope, but it seems to be missing the ability to do a fade IN and Fade out on the event.
2. Event Reverse for reverse audio playback
3. During playback it will auto-scroll with the cursor position. But if you click your cursor on the track view during playback then the scrolling stops like it should. The problem is that I don't know how to get back to the current cursor position so that it starts scrolling again. This is Vegas keyboard short-cut "\"

Like Ben mentions regarding the Vegas Media Pool and Trimmer window these are very useful when doing V.O. type of work.

Example of typical workflow:
You record 20 plus takes of a V.O. and record them all on the same track consecutively. All these individual takes get numbered consecutively and get placed into the "Project Media Pool". The producer says, Let me hear Take#10. Instead of scrolling the track view along the timeline, you just go to the media pool and playback the take labeled "Take 10". They then say, ok I liked take 5 also, can you play that back. You just click on take 5 in the project media pool. The producer then says, Ok I like the first half of Take 10 up to the word..."whatever". You double click take 10, and it loads into the trimmer window. You select everything in the trimmer window up to the word "whatever", then drag that onto a new audio track, which will be your composite edit track. The producer then says, I like the second half of "Take 5". So same thing, double click on take 5 in the project media pool, and then loads it into the trimmer window, and then select the second half of take#5 and stick that onto the back half of Take#10. Then you playback that composite edit track. The Producer says, I didn't like how he said the word "Blah". So you edit out the word "Blah" on your composit edit track, then goto your media pool and start double clicking on each take to load it into the trimmer window, where you can quickly jump to where the word "Blah" is located. The producer says he likes the word "Blah" from Take#2. Again in the trimmer window you select that section and drag it onto the composite edit track, where you previously edited the bad "blah" out. You do a little slip and nudge editing if necessary to make the new "blah" fit.

Ok, now you've done all this composit editing. It's for a 60 second radio commercial. The final composit edit comes in at a duration of 64 seconds. Your next step is that you go to the composit edit track and do what's called "de-breathing". You basically cut out wherever the V.O. person took a breath and then nudge those events closer together. So back to the Split, Slip and Nudge editing. At this point you have the time cut down to 62 seconds....F**K!!!! It's still 2 seconds too long and now you've spent all this time editing and the producer loves how it sounds. Another Vegas feature to the rescue. Select all events on that composit edit track, and do a simultaneous "time compress" of all the events. 60 second V.O. edit perfect....Now let's edit the background music and Sound FX's.

Thanks for listening. Don't worry, I understand some of this will probably take some time. It only took the Sonic Foundry guys working with me as a Beta tester from v1.0 up to Vegas v4.0 before they got it all done.

Last edited by Rednroll; 01-24-2006 at 09:45 PM.
Rednroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 09:58 PM   #6
weevil
Human being with feelings
 
weevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
Yep, I concur with Ben's suggestions. The Slip and Slide Editing features are what has kept us on the Vegas band wagon for a long time. Slip=Alt button, and works on the Head or Tail event depending on which one the mouse is over. Slide Edit Point= Cntrl+Alt. No problem changing the key assignments to something else.
Also, very useful in the editing department are the Vegas Numeric keys 4/6, 1/3, and 2/8.

You have to put the NUM/LOCK on the numeric keypad in Vegas. 4 and 6 nudge events an amount depending on the current Zoom level that you're at, which I actually don't care for in Vegas, since I'm always zooming in and out and never have an indication of what that "nudge" value is. I wish it was a user definable nudge amount that is independant of the zoom level.
I usually use numeric keys 1 and 3 because of that, 1 and 3 will ALWAYS nudge the event 1 frame at a time independant of the zoom level, which is pretty good for most editing. This is particularly useful when setting a loop section and then nudging the event until the edit sounds right.

Numeric 2 & 8 allow you to move an event onto another track without moving it's position on the timeline. I prefer this method rather than dragging with the mouse, because I always have a tendancy to move the event right or left when trying to drag it to the track above or below it.

I feel like I might be missing some of the keyboard short-cuts on some features at this point, since this is my first test drive. You probably haven't had a lot of time to work on the Help file, but it would be nice to see just the keyboard short-cuts for now, so we aren't making suggestions on stuff you have already done and we can take some of the guess work out of it.

Other things I miss:
1. Event ASR- Currently I see Event Volume envelope, but it seems to be missing the ability to do a fade IN and Fade out on the event.
2. Event Reverse for reverse audio playback
3. During playback it will auto-scroll with the cursor position. But if you click your cursor on the track view during playback then the scrolling stops like it should. The problem is that I don't know how to get back to the current cursor position so that it starts scrolling again. This is Vegas keyboard short-cut "\"

Like Ben mentions regarding the Vegas Media Pool and Trimmer window these are very useful when doing V.O. type of work.

Example of typical workflow:
You record 20 plus takes of a V.O. and record them all on the same track consecutively. All these individual takes get numbered consecutively and get placed into the "Project Media Pool". The producer says, Let me hear Take#10. Instead of scrolling the track view along the timeline, you just go to the media pool and playback the take labeled "Take 10". They then say, ok I liked take 5 also, can you play that back. You just click on take 5 in the project media pool. The producer then says, Ok I like the first half of Take 10 up to the word..."whatever". You double click take 10, and it loads into the trimmer window. You select everything in the trimmer window up to the word "whatever", then drag that onto a new audio track, which will be your composite edit track. The producer then says, I like the second half of "Take 5". So same thing, double click on take 5 in the project media pool, and then loads it into the trimmer window, and then select the second half of take#5 and stick that onto the back half of Take#10. Then you playback that composite edit track. The Producer says, I didn't like how he said the word "Blah". So you edit out the word "Blah" on your composit edit track, then goto your media pool and start double clicking on each take to load it into the trimmer window, where you can quickly jump to where the word "Blah" is located. The producer says he likes the word "Blah" from Take#2. Again in the trimmer window you select that section and drag it onto the composite edit track, where you previously edited the bad "blah" out. You do a little slip and nudge editing if necessary to make the new "blah" fit.

Ok, now you've done all this composit editing. It's for a 60 second radio commercial. The final composit edit comes in at a duration of 64 seconds. Your next step is that you go to the composit edit track and do what's called "de-breathing". You basically cut out wherever the V.O. person took a breath and then nudge those events closer together. So back to the Split, Slip and Nudge editing. At this point you have the time cut down to 62 seconds....F**K!!!! It's still 2 seconds too long and now you've spent all this time editing and the producer loves how it sounds. Another Vegas feature to the rescue. Select all events on that composit edit track, and do a simultaneous "time compress" of all the events. 60 second V.O. edit perfect....Now let's edit the background music and Sound FX's.

Thanks for listening. Don't worry, I understand some of this will probably take some time. It only took the Sonic Foundry guys working with me as a Beta tester from v1.0 up to Vegas v4.0 before they got it all done.
Bloody newbies... [rolls eyes]
weevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2006, 11:08 PM   #7
malcolmj
Human being with feelings
 
malcolmj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
Other things I miss:
1. Event ASR- Currently I see Event Volume envelope, but it seems to be missing the ability to do a fade IN and Fade out on the event.
This feature is already there. Select an item. Open the item properties (F2), set Fade-in length or Fade-out length.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
malcolmj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2006, 11:59 AM   #8
shane
Human being with feelings
 
shane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 61.215 -149.8925
Posts: 366
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rednroll
Also, very useful in the editing department are the Vegas Numeric keys 4/6, 1/3, and 2/8.

You have to put the NUM/LOCK on the numeric keypad in Vegas. 4 and 6 nudge events an amount depending on the current Zoom level that you're at, which I actually don't care for in Vegas, since I'm always zooming in and out and never have an indication of what that "nudge" value is. I wish it was a user definable nudge amount that is independant of the zoom level.
I usually use numeric keys 1 and 3 because of that, 1 and 3 will ALWAYS nudge the event 1 frame at a time independant of the zoom level, which is pretty good for most editing. This is particularly useful when setting a loop section and then nudging the event until the edit sounds right.

Numeric 2 & 8 allow you to move an event onto another track without moving it's position on the timeline. I prefer this method rather than dragging with the mouse, because I always have a tendancy to move the event right or left when trying to drag it to the track above or below it.
I like this.
shane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.