unprocessed vs processed drum plugins

[valy]

Originally Posted by Naji

I also demoed BFD, it is really good, but I wanted something that fits in a mix without having to add a lot, so I took SSD.
SD3 seems to be a working horse with almost unlimited possibilities.
You will not get a better price when you say you just want 100 GB and do not need the rest, but since I have EZdrummer, I could a crossgrade price.
Well, still have to watch some videos.
SD3 is different from SSD.
SSD you could start usingbwithout readung the manual, but SD3 has as much as a complete daw, so you have to be aware of the fact you have to study this plugin.
It is also nice to use different drum plugins at the same time, ssd definetely has great snares imo.
SD3 default kits sound very good, I am just not sure about the crash sound, but this would not be a main problem.

Yeah, SD3 is pretty complex. I mean it has a MIDI editor and mixer, so like you said, it's approaching a DAW in some ways. But, you can still just load it up and play without delving too much into its secrets.

You can switch out the crash cymbals in a kit if you don't like them, although I don't even remember what the crashes sound like in SD3 Core. Maybe you wouldn't like any of them. Of course, you can always load your own crash samples from .wav files into SD3 and trigger those, too.

[Naji]

I had the opportunity to use Sd3 today at a friend's laptop, I think he has every drum plugin available.
I like some things about Sd3, but I really do not understand why this Massenberg guru recorded in a very big hall - chamber or medium sized would have been a thousand times better, also he used some very strange mics.
The result is that you have pretty weak drum sounds with way too much room sound.
The good thing is that you can tweak around in Sd3 to optimize, wheras with other plugins you can have great sounding drums immediately. So I used Addictive drums, SSD5 and SD3 to get some nice drum kits.
The kick drums are the weakest part of Sd3, would never use them.
But when you have time, you can use some bleed, fx and can get pretty good results with Sd3.
I have two versions of Addictive drums demo with great kick drums and I have to say Ad has the best ones, SSD5 has the by far best snares and the rest could be added from SD3, but after tweaking and adjusting a lot.
The pure sounds are too weak and unspectacular to make drums sound good, but I like SD3.

Sd3 can be a good addition to your existing drum plugins, but I doubt you could make some great drums with it only.

[valy]

You absolutely can make great drums with it only. I do it all the time.

As far as the room sounds, I already mentioned that I pull most of the room mikes way down to avoid that problem. Easy to do with the mixer.

[ernzo]

Originally Posted by Naji

I like some things about Sd3, but I really do not understand why this Massenberg guru recorded in a very big hall - chamber or medium sized would have been a thousand times better, also he used some very strange mics.
The result is that you have pretty weak drum sounds with way too much room sound.

That sucks..
Is that so with all Expansions, or just a particular set??


That's the very same reason why I don't like Berlin Strings for instance,
too much of the Hall sound, but badly done so..

Even the close mic samples are full of it, but are very badly leveled, very unusable..

Also because that Teldex Hall doesn't seem to be the best.

Originally Posted by Naji

The good thing is that you can tweak around in Sd3 to optimize, wheras with other plugins you can have great sounding drums immediately.

With BFD2/3 you can tweak everything, but it's more of a one-time thing.

You need to adjust the Room/Amb Mics, their level and placement,
choose how much pieces bleed into each other, and then use some FX like compressors/eq on the Snares/BD/Toms to smooth or pump the whole thing a bit..

It can be a bit daunting at first,
but then your setup works Forever, and you can tweak it over the years and keep improving your sound,
as all samples/expansions are recorded equally Dry/Natural..

But that's I guess also its limitation..
Without being an Expert, it would be very difficult to get super Characterful Tones,
like what Addictive Drums gives out of the box, thanks to the great use of FX the presets have by default..

I haven't tried all BFD kits tho,
maybe some Metal kits come with fitting presets.

But the usual Jazz/Orchestral perc stuff is "just" very Clean/Natural sounding stuff..
Something you can directly add to your "ideal" set-up, and live with it.

And that's even true for some less demanding/more generic types of Jazz/Funk/Rock..
If your set-up/preset is Good, you can use any of the expansions, and it will sound allright

In terms of Rock, I think the Modern Retro, or Yamaha Maple Custom,
are pretty much an universal type sound, that could fit almost anything..
(Except Heavy Metal ofc)

.

[Naji]

I would even say that the demo versions of Addictive drums, the old and the new one, are better than SD3.
There is only one thing where SD3 is superior, the hi hats, but it needs lots of time to make them sound great, but do not use the fx of SD3, the eqs are ok, but the rest is so cheap quality, even Reaper's fx is way better.
SD3 is overhyped, they have a big name with this Massenburg guy, but he did only a mediocre job imo.
Fx and kick drums are really very bad.
But it is hard to get good hi hats and that would be the only reason to buy SD3.
The toms are ok, too, but even demo versions of other plugins have better sound and you can also tweak and adjust.
I just checked the reverb of AD's old demo, it is awesome, the reverbs of SD3 are ridiculous and also most of the midi grooves. SSD5 has some awesome midi.
A drum plugin must make the drums sit perfect in a mix, I wonder how to achieve that with SD3...

I am pretty sure that most people would go for AD, if they had the opportunity to compare demo versions.
And before you add bad quality fx to a Vsti, it is better not to add any fx; I was really shocked about the quality of SD3´s fx, especially the reverbs.

Now I see, why SD3 is afraid of releasing a demo version. But toontrack is clever, they have a big name with Massenburg and when you watch their videos, you start believing it is the best product.
Isn't it strange, that most videos of SD3 only give you drum sounds, but you must hear drums in a mix with other instruments.
I have not jammed with a band for quite a long time, but I remember that real drums do not sound like SD3, they sounded more like AD or SSD5 or...
But maybe this is the new modern sound, where real drums do not play an important role any more, no Mitch Mitchells, Bonhams or Keith Moons any more...

@ernzo and valy
Yes, you can adjust the amount of room and OH in every drum plugin, but imo Massenburg did a mistake by recording drums in a big hall. A big hall kills all the energy a drum needs. I believe you valy, that even with SD3 mixes are possible, but it is way easier with other plugins, but it is hard to believe that the kick drums would work...

[valy]

Different strokes, I suppose.

[Naji]

The way this product is promoted is misleading and not fair.

Of course, now I know why too track has not made a in depth video for fx.

Eg as for reverb, they just say " there 6 or 8? great or awesome? reverbs available" something similar to that.

One reverb sounds worse than the other, it is a shame and they are stupig enough to show how and where the druns were recorded. How can you record drums for music production un such a big hall???

If you told this to toontrack, they wozld answer that you could buy many expansiin packs.
First all prices are way too high.
I mean if the demo version of another plugin is better than a full version, what more to say!?
I mean I thought after watching sime videos, SD3 offers a lot of ways to change, adjust, improve the sound.
Eg with AD you get a hundred times better results, you can do a littele less than in SD3, but everything ist top notch quality, that is the big difference!
And I am nit making any promotion for AD, I do bit even have the full version, but I will buy next new cersion for sure!
I have two great sounding kick drums in two demo versiin of AD, all the kicks of SD3 just do not sound good, kind of weak with an artificial sound of plastic


As for midi grooves I read somewhere that i e drummer only played or programmed it.
Well, a big crew for recording, but one drummer for a oretty important thing "the drum playing or performance".
If only one guy does ir, it becomes boring soon and he can not cover all music styles
in a good quality. You have to offer nore variety and specialists for certain genres.
I do not want a Bonham for funky sounds, that is a job for eg an Andy Newmark.

SD3 is maybe worth about 25 USD, for hi hats and cymbals only. Each expansion about 12 USD.
If you need hh and cymbals and money does nor matter, maybe go for it and everybody actually good hh. That is a weakness of nearly every plugin, I suppose it is hard to make hh sound well in a plugin...

[Naji]

There are some people who maybe intend to buy a drum plugin and as for SD3 you can watch many videos.
The product is promoted in a way where the weakness of the product is not presented of course and I would like to end with a summary after I could compare SD3 to other plugins.

1. No demo version, you have no opportunity to check out and compare

2. The drum kicks could be way better

3. Would you record drums for a plugin
for music production in a pretty large hall?

4. Most fx are really of very bad quality

5. Size of AD about 2 GB.
Size of SD3: 230 GB!!!

6. The product is overhyped and overpriced. People who make videos of SD3 have simply joined this hype. After watching toontrack videos they are convinced they have got a superb product, it is a psychological thing, and toontrack's marketing knows that fact very well

@valy
I know, you have joy with SD3 and that is good. But be fair and you would have to agree with most above mentioned facts, wouldn't you? I know, it is not easy to admit that a product you have paid quite a lot for has quite a lot of weak things.
I would also use SD3, as I said for hh and cymbals only being aware of the dact you have to tweak and add a lot, but I got some very good results with SD3 when I was demoing and comparing it.
And another good thing, SD3 is not heavy on cpu!
If you have AD, BFD or SSD, SD3 could be a nice addition! Snares and kicks from the durst mentioned plugins, the rest maybe from SD3...

[valy]

The one thing I'll agree with is that SD3 can eat up a lot of storage space.

But as someone who has gone through the process of miking acoustic kits and mixing them, I can appreciate a good, natural-sounding acoustic kit in a plugin. And that's exactly what I get from SD3.

I don't use the effects in SD3. I don't need them. I have far better tools at my disposal.

Not all libraries are recorded in "large halls," as you put it. The Roots and Indiependent libraries, for example, sound great when you are going for smaller, more subdued drum sounds.

I haven't used Addictive Drums or any of the others. But I don't feel the need to. I can get all the sounds I'll ever need from SD3. However, I have much more than the SD3 Core library, so maybe that's the difference there.

I mean...no one's forcing you to like SD3. You shouldn't feel obligated to. Everyone has their own preferences -- this is art! Variety is the spice of life.

If you can get better results with AD, then you should use that.

If you can get better results with miking an acoustic kit, then that's the approach to go for.

Always choose what gives you the best sound, irrespective of what anyone else uses or recommends.

[Naji]

We have recorded four different drum plugins to show the difference:

SD3, old version of AD and new version of AD and SSD5.

Will you find out the plugins to the corresponding tracks?
We always used midi grooves from the corresponding plugins.

What plugin or track do you like best?

https://voca.ro/jsaV2Ybxls5

I like the hi hats of SD3 a lot!

[Naji]

I mean, it is pretty obvious which one is SD3, even when you turn down room mics, still way too much room sound and when you add some of the bad reverb fx it´s getting to sound terrible and I only added a little amount of reverb here and then.. How could they having recorded in such a large space???? I really do not comprehend. Also with close mics they couldn't get rid of the huge ambiance in a big hall, the instruments seem to have absorbed all the room sound.
It is a must to use Transient designer or de-reverb on SD3, otherwise the drums will not fit in a mix.
But hi hats are fantastic!
Of course you could make the awful sounding snare sound better or load a sample, but when you add fx from other plugins and new snare samples, you better use Reaper´s samplomatic imo.
Imo opinion kick drums of AD are awesome, also snare pretty good, snare and toms great with SSD5 and hi hats great with SD3,hi hats of AD and SSD are not their strength.
And I would really need some good hi hats, samples will not make it either..

[Amberience]

I love this debate!

Full disclosure: I'm Drew and I'm the product owner for BFD. We've just been acquired by inMusic Brands, so I'm ramping up my social media efforts for research purposes. You'll probably see me pop up in various threads about drum software and BFD3 over the next year or so!

So ... processed versus unprocessed. Simply put, we all have different needs. When I'm writing I often want a light weight drum solution that sounds good, and when I'm deep in the mix, I want total control. Some people spend more time in the "I just want to be creative and not have to think about the mix" world than the rest of us, and for those people processed punchy sounding drums fit the bill nicely. The success of products like Get Good Drums is testament to this.

With many of the recent BFD expansion packs we opted to give you unprocessed and processed sounds. It makes the downloads bigger, but I think it's worth it. So something like BFD Oblivion and BFD Metal Snares (metal the material, not just the genre!) you get these huge punchy drums that you can slap into most mixes, and you get the raw unprocessed straight from the DAW samples too. Those are labelled pure in the browser.

Then you've got packs like BFD Crush and BFD Vintage Recording Techniques where we felt you didn't need so many options, because those packs give you so much in terms of channel count anyway, that drowning people in drum choices was a step too far. So those packs are lightly processed to deal with recording issues rather than for aesthetic choices. And we leave the rest up to you.

There are some things that we try to capture at source. If we're going through nice preamps or a console we will try and get some of that flavour into the raw samples. Likewise with microphone selection, that makes a big difference too. So at some level, all of these products are making decisions for you. That's just the nature of recording I suppose.

I'm a nerd for this stuff and I use BFD as well as a lot of the stuff being mentioned in this thread, so thought I'd throw out my perspective.

[ernzo]

Thanks for sharing your experiences with SD3.

As for the examples provided..
I've got no idea!

But I would say,
The 1st example had a great Timbre/Tone and overall sound!
Addictive Drums 2?

The 2nd example Sucked in terms of Timbre/Tone and Presence,
the Snare and BD were Horrible, and very Roomy,
although the Hi-Hat was not too bad.. This could be SD3?

The 3rd example sounds a bit like Addictive Drums,
although it's not the newest version, or the best kit/preset out there..

I didn't like the 4th example either,
the Hi-hat could be ok I guess, but that Snare/BD are quite bad..
Quite disorganized/not matching in terms of Timbre.. Slate Drums?


I guess the Drum Kits were very Different in all the examples,
but yeah, one can still get an idea of the overall sound..


-In any case I'm glad I went with BFD2 and not SuperiorDrummer..!

It really matches the Natural/Clean sound philosophy I favor,
which is more fitting for the type of music I work on..

For more specific style requests/productions I've got AD2,
they complement very well.

[Naji]

@ernzo
you have guessed two plugins correctly! I will tell later...

Yeah and I think with BFD and AD you have almost no limits to achieve great drum sounds.
Although my opinion about SD3 is not the best, I have to admit again that the hi hats are exceptional,
but that´s just my opinion after first expressions

But I want to add, that maybe if you work with SD3 more than a week you could
find out and see things that you can not immediately, because it has a lot of differnt things you can do.
But to have too many options is not olways the best thing.

Being able to transfer audio into midi is something only SD3 has afaik and
also bleed is nice, though I do not think it sounds very realistic, but it´s nice.

Does anybody know if BFD, SSD or AD are going to release a new version soon?

[Naji]

in the master I just had Kotelnikov compression and a very little L3 Maximizer.

I only used internal fx of the plugins, th3 reverbs of AD are awesome and some other fx, too.
Only SSD I uncompressed a little, but I could have left as it was.
Although you can tweak some things on SSD, too, this drums are the best
processed drums imo, they fit in a mix immediately.
When you un-compress you can add some comp etc that you like again.

If you are into metal or hard-rock SSD is the best imo - this plugin rocks!
I also like some hard rock and even metal, but it is not my main genre,
with uncompression you can use it for a lot more music styles.

[Naji]

@ Amberience

Are you the boss or developer of BFD?

If yes, let us know, when you will release your next version.

And what about a discount for Reaper users ? haha

[Amberience]

Originally Posted by Naji

@ Amberience

Are you the boss or developer of BFD?

If yes, let us know, when you will release your next version.

And what about a discount for Reaper users ? haha

Not the boss no lol.

Next version.... hmmm.... "when it's ready?"

BFD3 is on sale right now I believe. There's yer discount!

[Naji]

Originally Posted by Amberience

Not the boss no lol.

Next version.... hmmm.... "when it's ready?"

BFD3 is on sale right now I believe. There's yer discount!

Haha I see

the release of BFD 3 was in 2013, wasn´t it.
cmon it is time for an new release...

I want better sounding hi-hats haha

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Naji

@ Amberience

Are you the boss or developer of BFD?

If yes, let us know, when you will release your next version.

And what about a discount for Reaper users ? haha

IIRC Angus Hewlett of FXpansion who created the DR-008 drum plugin was also the original creator of BFD, but I've read he went to Roli.

[Naji]

"The 1st example had a great Timbre/Tone and overall sound!
Addictive Drums 2? (ernzo)"
No, the first one is SSD5

2nd is SD3

3rd is old AD

4th is current version of AD

[JamesPeters]

If you just used some presets of BFD in that clip, you need to realize just how much has been done in those presets to make it sound that way. In its mixer there's all kinds of processing being done including various types of saturation and distortion (including a "crunch bus"). There are some really over-the-top presets. It is capable of sounding a lot more dry and "intimate".

[ernzo]

Awesome..

I would say the AD2 example isn't the best Preset/Kit it has to offer..
I know it can be much better than that..

But in any case Slate Drums is the clear Winner here!

I'm surprised,
it sounds very nice indeed, and not only the Kit's Timbres,
but also the nice Polish FX give it which make it sound very Finalized..


-As for BFD, I would recommend you to check out the "Modern Retro" expansion,
I think they did something very good with that..

The kit has a great cohesive Timbre,
the presets are good, while still retaining the Natural BFD sound..

And I would say it could easily fit many styles of Rock music..

In general terms I think it's the Best BFD expansion kit,
unless you're into more specific Jazz/Funk, Heavy Metal or Orchestral stuff..

[Naji]

... only in combination with other plugin.

I played some midi drums and made a loop with SD3.
I want to dive deeper into SD3,

You will hear the loop played three times each time twice

1. SD3 completely unprocessed 2x loop

2. SD3 processed, I only used the eq within SD3, rest are all kind
of plugins, first loop without buss eq and comp, second loop with eq and comp in buss

3. SSD5 in addition 2xloop

It takes a lot of time to get some good sound with SD3, but I still love the hi hats.

What do you think?
I would do a lot more with the drums, but had to leave my friends appartement.

https://voca.ro/i8qqjnKUiEF

@ernzo
Well, my biggest inspiration is Prince and he used to make very different music styles,
even though some would say he is / was funky, but he is a lot more than that.

My favorite music actually is flamenco (Paco de Lucia)and also blues (Hendrix), Funk (Sly Stone), hard rock (Led Zeppelin), fusion (John McLaughlin), experimental (Frank Zappa), R&B (Stevie Wonder), Soul (Marvin Gaye), I also like classical music (Chopin), Pop and some Jazz (Abdullah Ibrahim) & Hip Hop (DrDre) & Elvis was a great performer and singer, too. I also grew up with metal Iron Maiden, Metallica, Mötley Crüe etc.
And I like the Beatles more than Rolling Stones haha

Since my fav drummers are Mitch Mitchell, Andrew Newmark, John Blackwell and all drummers of Frank Zappa I maybe have too high demands as for a drum plugin, but the best are real drums of course.

Which plugin would you recommend now? haha

[Naji]

I like this kind of drumming - Andy Newmark, the master of funky hi hats haha
and the bass player (Willie Weeks) simply awesome. Andy also played in the band of Sly Stone...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1TP-VwwPcM


Well, the guitars sound like having been played with NI Guitar Rig haha

[ernzo]

For Flamenco you can be sure-> None

Although if you needed a Cymbal crash or something BFD2/3 would be my choice..

Also it's got an ok Clap sound that could serve for Flamenco-Fusion Chick Corea style..
and has the more acoustic/ethnic Swan Percussion expansion which is not too bad, although more specific Kontakt libraries would surely do better.


-For the rest you mention AD2 should do the trick most of the time..
it's got some Great Funk presets, and it can do a good job with retro stuff a alla Beatles, Hendrix, Zeppelin..
while being sufficient for Metal or Electronica.


-As for Prince..
I really and utterly love the Rainbow Children disc,
I think it's Super Great, amazing, and a gift to humanity..

But strangely enough I just cannot listen the rest of his discography,
I find it even Disgusting most of the time.. lol

It's just a matter of personal taste tho,
I know he was a Superb Musician, Singer, Composer, Pianist and Guitarist..

It's just nothing comes close to Rainbow Children in my view,
and I can only hope he left more of that, or a second disc in that line on his Secret Vault!!
.

[dug dog]

Processed or unprocessed? I agree with those who said that it all depends on the user and the intended usage.

Mixing drums is far from easy and I wish I'd bought something more newbie oriented way back when Superior 2 came out. As I recall, I didn't really like the presets that much and had no idea how to improve them. LOL.

(BTW, those SD3 sounds are terrible. Did you use presets?)

[Naji]

Rainbow Children is a very special release of Prince indeed - I like it a lot.
Prince has written so much music, I could not even recommend something.
In one month he could hav played every day a concert, every day with completely different songs.
I saw him three times live on stage.
Sign of the times is one of his best and Around the world in a day for me.
In the 1990ies he had a hard time finding a new direction, because the whole music business changed; with samplers and daws everyone could start making music and there was just too much music these days and new styles like techno etc.

NPG "Exodus" is also a very special release.
You won´t find even his name mentioned on that release - I love it.
I do not like every Prince song, but about 20% are superb, about 30% very good
30% pretty nice and the rest - well call it experiments - he always tried out new things and on stage I ve never seen someone having so much energy and joy.

[Naji]

Originally Posted by dug dog

Processed or unprocessed? I agree with those who said that it all depends on the user and the intended usage.

Mixing drums is far from easy and I wish I'd bought something more newbie oriented way back when Superior 2 came out. As I recall, I didn't really like the presets that much and had no idea how to improve them. LOL.

(BTW, those SD3 sounds are terrible. Did you use presets?)

I chose the first clean drum kit, but without any fx in the mixer.
Only SD3 is not good, you definetly have to add some other drums.
If toontrack released a small version with hi hats and cymbals only,
I would buy.
You defenitely do not need all these room sound downloads, it´s way too much for a drum kit. And the bleed, well, it sounds too clean, in reality bleed does not sound like that, but it is a nice idea.
So SD3 is 40 GB only - the library and one OH and room channel, if you add the rest, you get more and more difficulties to get a good sounding drum. Less is more.

[Wolffman]

Originally Posted by Naji

Which plugin would you recommend now? haha

Honestly, i don't think it matters which of the most recent drum vsti plugins anyone has, they are all capable of getting very good results imho.

I'm guilty of having far too many, BFD3, Superior 2.0, EZdrummer 2, ( Jamstix, which i love ) Studio / session drummer, plus more " i need help ".

I use them all, it comes down to what set of drum samples best suits the track being working on.

If i had to choose from the vsti i have i'd keep SD2.0 and Jamstix they will cover anything i need ( i have a bunch of expansions for SD2.0 )but i mostly use the custom and vintage pack.
I should say its very close between BFD3 and SD2.0 and in all honesty its really because ive had SD2 for much longer and know my way around it much better than i do BFD3.

Now, this might sound weird but if i were starting from scratch today i'd buy Komplete from native instruments ( it includes Kontakt ) and i'd buy a few of the analogue drums packs and Jamstix and that would have me covered
for pretty much everything

Cheers

[Naji]

I will download the free version of Jamstix, thanks for the hint.
I have listended to some audio demos. Sounds pretty good, but suppose like with all other plugins the hi hats and cymbals could be better and ths is the only strength of SD3 imo.
But maybe I am wrong...

Jamstix even has a flamenco expansion haha

No kidding, for flamenco you need real instruments, percussion like cajon, bongos and you have two hands to be able to clap.

Hey, table top dancer is a great song, like it a lot

[Wolffman]

Just so were clear, i really don't use Jamstix for sounds, only sometimes, not that its bad but i have other drum sounds i like better.

Jamstix is mostly used to rough out the midi for songs which i then edit in the midi editor, Jamstix is quiet a big learning curve but once you get how it works its hard to do drums without it.

Cheers

[Wolffman]

Originally Posted by Naji

Hey, table top dancer is a great song, like it a lot

Thanks, seems ironic that table top dancer is real recorded drums
its a single take from band practice one night, we just put up some mics and recorded, this was one of the better ones on the night.

Cheers

I just remembered that one of the other songs on soundcloud " the mighty reveal" is all Jamstix. sounds included, so that will give you an idea of how it sounds in a song.

[Naji]

After two days diving into Superior Drummer 3 and comparing it to other plugins, I have to say regarding GB size, promotion/hype and price and sound quality, it is one of the worst plugins ever been released.

If toontrack was a honest, fair and good company they would give you a 14 day full demo. They do not, because they know very well, that almost no one would buy it.

You can take any drum kit eg of SSD 5 and play some drum groove, I sent a link with sound examples in this thread before, and I would like to hear drums from SD3 matching or coming close to this quality by not using hardware!!!
But of course many plugin could be added, you are lost with the internal fx of SD3 anyway.
I know it is not possible. SD3 could be nice for hh or adding some bad sounds to a good drum plugin and you will get some new kind of sound by mixing good and bad, can be interesting.

Anyone here, who could come close to the quality of AD or SSD or BFD with SD3 ?
Listen to my SSD5 audio and proove it! Without using hardware and with stock drum kits only!

I never liked EZ-Drummer, I know toontrack also develop keyboard plugins etc and I do not know these products and I am not interested in getting to know, but toontrack and drums is like fire and water, they do not go well together...

[Naji]

Now listen to the quality of the kick drum only,
no room channel added, clean kick only.
The instuments have absorbed all the room sound of this large space where it
was recorded. You can´t get rid of this noise. Did they pay Mr. Massenburg for this more than bad job?

The kick sounds like a blowing wind within the drum kit.

https://voca.ro/kecOJK0njZx

[Naji]

The best drum lopp I could make with SD3, well,
after adding 100 plugins haha

https://voca.ro/jt6GY3Zk7PI

bought some days ago, I said, we should ask to get the money back.

[carbon]

Originally Posted by Naji

Now listen to the quality of the kick drum only,
no room channel added, clean kick only.
The instuments have absorbed all the room sound of this large space where it
was recorded. You can´t get rid of this noise. Did they pay Mr. Massenburg for this more than bad job?

The kick sounds like a blowing wind within the drum kit.

https://voca.ro/kecOJK0njZx

What did you do with it? Distortion, compression? This is not how the kicks sound when I use the plugin.

[carbon]

Originally Posted by Naji

We have recorded four different drum plugins to show the difference:

SD3, old version of AD and new version of AD and SSD5.

Will you find out the plugins to the corresponding tracks?
We always used midi grooves from the corresponding plugins.

What plugin or track do you like best?

https://voca.ro/jsaV2Ybxls5

I like the hi hats of SD3 a lot!

Seems that some sounds in the middle are deliberately distorted and with crazy amount of room.

[dug dog]

Originally Posted by Naji

The best drum lopp I could make with SD3, well,
after adding 100 plugins haha

https://voca.ro/jt6GY3Zk7PI

bought some days ago, I said, we should ask to get the money back.

I think that sounds pretty cool but it's a far cry from the Slate and AD samples you posted earlier and, if that's as close as you can get to those samples, then Superior is definitely not for you.
Did you try any of the presets? Maybe something from the "Tight/Dry" subset?

[Naji]

can you use SD3 for a song ?

Well you could also you spoons and pots for playing drums.
If you want to spend 5x more time for making some good drum
sounds, even SD3 could be your partner.
Most of the work with SD3 is getting rid of terrible sounds and noises,
because Mr. Massenburg did not a very good job imo.
And you have to add an armada of plugins to make these drum plugin rock more or lees.

This is what it sounds like
********************************************
https://voca.ro/2ykKKAyxwzf
********************************************

[Naji]

Originally Posted by carbon

What did you do with it? Distortion, compression? This is not how the kicks sound when I use the plugin.

delay, saturation, distortion, amps, coloring eqs, compressors, gates, de-verb, transient designer etc.
you should have all Horizon Waves plugin inserted haha