How to avoid Reaper to change the latency of my sound card panel?

[ovnis]

Hi,

I would like to use different latencies with my different softs (Reaper and Pianoteq).

But when I change the ASIO latency in reaper (or start Reaper with a different latency), it changes the latency of PIanoteq (and the latency of my sound card panel)! My pianoteq latency is replaced!

PIanoteq is a piano and I want to a very low latency like 32 samples. For Reaper, I use 128 samples.

There is a solution to this issue?

Windows 10 and my sound car is PreSonus Revelator io 24.

Thx you!

[domzy]

ASIO block size is a setting of the soundcard, not the software.
you can send a block / buffer size request from Reaper (if you tick the relevant box in Reaper preferences or project settings).
I don't use pianoteq so i don't know if it has the same capability of setting the block size on startup. Probably worth checking with the vendor or in the manual.
If not, then i think it's gonna use the last used block size.

PS - i think you probably mean 32 / 128 samples, not "ms"

[ovnis]

I think than you haven't understand my issue. Yes, I can block the buffer of Reaper but not the buffer of Pianoteq (because Reaper changes the buffer of pianoteq).

[domzy]

apologies for misunderstanding

hopefully someone else can chip in.

[Sibben]

So are you running Pianoteq standalone and not as a VST? It’s still using the same soundcard which means the same block size.

What is it you’re trying to achieve by doing it this way?

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by Sibben

So are you running Pianoteq standalone and not as a VST? It’s still using the same soundcard which means the same block size.

What is it you’re trying to achieve by doing it this way?

Yes.
On my previous sound card I could have different latencies on Reaper and Pianoteq.

" What is it you’re trying to achieve by doing it this way? "

I don't understand your question.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

I think than you haven't understand my issue. Yes, I can block the buffer of Reaper but not the buffer of Pianoteq (because Reaper changes the buffer of pianoteq).

i'm trying to understand - you're talking about an ASIO buffer?
pianoteq doesn't really have one (nor does Reaper for that matter) - it's a property of the soundcard.
Reaper has the ability to change it on start-up by sending a request.

I thought you were asking if it's possible to have Reaper always automatically open with a block size of 128 samples (yes, if it sends a request) and pianoteq always automatically open with a block size of 32 samples (i don't know, ask pianoteq if it has the ability to send a request)

or maybe you are asking if it's possible to have two different block sizes at once? No, not possible.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by domzy

i'm trying to understand - you're talking about an ASIO buffer?

About resquest block size. So latency ?!

Originally Posted by domzy

I thought you were asking if it's possible to have Reaper always open with a block size of 128 samples (yes, if it sends a request) and pianoteq always open with a block size of 32 samples (i don't know, ask pianoteq if it has the ability to send a request, but i doubt it)

This...

With my old card I had not this issue.

[Sibben]

It might be your previous interface supported what I guess is multi-client behavior that allowed it to operate like two different interfaces. I have no experience with these kind of shenanigans, sorry. Maybe someone else does.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

With my old card I had not this issue.

Your old card was able to remember which software preferred different block sizes? Really? What soundcard was that? i can't see how that's possible. (happy to be educated though)

[ovnis]

M-track 2*2.


When I change the latency inside Reaper or Pianoteq, the latency inside the panel of the sound card is not modified.

Now, It is always modified.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

When I change the latency inside Reaper or Pianoteq, the latency inside the panel of the sound card is not modified.

I have heard that some soundcards don't like getting requests from other software and it's best to set it in the ASIO control panel, but this wouldn't result in the behaviour you desire, it just means it would stay as it was last until you change it manually.
Unless you weren't using ASIO in one of the apps? Maybe WASAPI in Reaper or something?

[ovnis]

Maybe the issue is "source d'horloge" = "clock source"?

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by domzy

I have heard that some soundcards don't like getting requests from other software and it's best to set it in the ASIO control panel, but this wouldn't result in the behaviour you desire, it just means it would stay as it was last until you change it manually.
Unless you weren't using ASIO in one of the apps?

I always use ASIO.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Maybe the issue is "source d'horloge" = "clock source"?

i can't see why that would have anything to do with it?

are you trying to sync it from another device? do you have stuff connected digitally?

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by domzy

i can't see why that would have anything to do with it?

are you trying to sync it from another device? do you have stuff connected digitally?

No.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

When I change the latency inside Reaper or Pianoteq, the latency inside the panel of the sound card is not modified.

Now, It is always modified.

if you don't want it modified (ie you want to change it only from the soundcard ASIO control panel) then don't request a block size in Reaper preferences.
I can't speak for how pianoteq standalone deals with it.

[ovnis]

It will not change my issue.

[ovnis]

On my new sound card, I can play Reaper and play pianoteq at the same time. So it's multi client, I guess?

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

It will not change my issue.

No, what you are asking for (if i understand correctly) is not possible and never has been, as far as i know.
i think you might be misremembering how it worked before. It either changed the block size (for everything) or it didn't. It wouldn't have been selective about which software it affected.

[ovnis]

How do you explain this?

[domzy]

yeah, all that shows is that your m-audio doesn't respond to a block request from reaper. this is the same as not having the box ticked.

[ovnis]

Originally Posted by domzy

yeah, all that shows is that your m-audio doesn't respond to a block request from reaper. this is the same as not having the box ticked.

But the latency inside Reaper will be the real latency...

[domzy]

no, the block size (hence latency) is a property of the soundcard, not Reaper...

...unless the m-audio software is buggy and it is changing the block size but not updating the display?

or maybe the minimum permitted block size for the m-audio is 256?

[ovnis]

So you say if programs are played at the same time with ASIO, they always have the same latency whatever the audio card?

[domzy]

no, i'm saying that your soundcard dictates your latency, depending on it's block size.
plugins etc. can also add their own latency

or maybe i'm misunderstanding again - if two programs share an ASIO soundcard at the same time, yes, they will have the same baseline latency.

[ovnis]

or maybe i'm misunderstanding again - if two programs share an ASIO soundcard at the same time, yes, they will have the same baseline latency.

It seems wrong with my old card.

I have made a new test with it.

I can play pianoteq with 64 samples block size meanwile Reaper is played a track with 500 samples block size...

The pianoteq keyboard reacts very fast (like a 64ms setting) and there is no glitch on my heavy track (like a 5000ms setting).

[domzy]

i don't really understand. i presume you mean samples not milliseconds? even so, i don't get what you are attempting to test.
what is the block size in your soundcard's ASIO control panel? that'll be the truest value i'd say, unless there is something really crazy going on.

[ovnis]

Yes, samples. Sorry for that.

"that'll be the truest value i'd say, unless there is something really crazy going on."
256.


edit: I have made a new test on a heavy project. 16 samples in the sound card panel and 128 samples in Reaper. No glitch. If I set 16 samples in Reaper, it sounds like noise.

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

Yes, samples. Sorry for that.

"that'll be the truest value i'd say, unless there is something really crazy going on."
256.

256 samples would equate to about 5-6 milliseconds of latency (if your sample rate is 44100hz or 48000hz).
This is usually responsive enough for most people and probably comparable to a real acoustic piano

[ovnis]

I have tested with 4096 sample on the sound card panel and 64 sample inside Pianoteq. The keyobard is very fast (as 64 samples should be).

[domzy]

Originally Posted by ovnis

I have tested with 4096 sample on the sound card panel and 64 sample inside Pianoteq. The keyobard is very fast (as 64 samples should be).

are you still talking about the m-audio? presuming you set the soundcard block size first and then the pianoteq, this tends to suggest the request is made but the m-audio panel is not updating properly, doesn't surprise me that m-audio drivers are buggy, to be honest.

[ovnis]

Yes.

I have made new test with reaper heavy project with m-track.

1-card panel : 4096 samples
2-Reaper 5000 samples
3-Pianoteq 64 samples

Reaper is playing without noise. If I play pianoteq meanwile reaper is playing, the keyboard is very fast but I can listen sound glitch/saturation when I push keys.

----------------------------

If I change pianoteq latency, nothing happens in the card panel.
If I change the card panel latency, pianoteq latency follows the card latency

I have made this again and when I change the card latency, nothing happens to pianoteq...

[ovnis]

Pianoteq: 4096 samples


Wathever I set Reaper to 32 samples or 5000 samples, when I play piano, the latency seems the same (very long)...

[zeekat]

Only case I've seen programs work with separate latencies was Line 6 POD farm standalone while using a Line 6 interface - it can work low latency over hi-buffer projects in Reaper but that's due to interface having special custom driver for that (separate from the ASIO).

I look at the Pianoteq page and all they say is usual "you need the ASIO". Def looking like old and new ASIO drivers reacting different to request block size from Reaper.

edit: what's the benefit of running the standalone Pianoteq? I see they supply a VST version.

[ovnis]

edit: what's the benefit of running the standalone Pianoteq? I see they supply a VST version.

Praticing the piano without using a DAW.
Praticing the piano while a Reaper project is opened at the background.

[King Stupid]

As far as I know, when reaper requests a block size and it changes, or it's set in the control panel of the interface, that IS the interfaces block size.

I ahve personally never worked with an interface that is capable of different buffer sizes for various programs simultanously.

It is highly unlikely either the m-audio or your current presonus is capable of this.

When you change the buffer, it is changed in the ASIO DRIVER. That driver is supplying the buffer size.

It is the buffer size for that audio interface.

If it appeared not to change for both, with the m-audio, it is likely a driver issue that is simply not reporting the change in the GUI.

[ovnis]

If it appeared not to change for both, with the m-audio, it is likely a driver issue that is simply not reporting the change in the GUI.

After some tests, it seems not be the case.

Two softs which work with different buffer sizes, at the same time.

But maybe I'm wrong?

[King Stupid]

Originally Posted by ovnis

After some tests, it seems not be the case.

Two softs which work with different buffer sizes, at the same time.

But maybe I'm wrong?

The "softs", I assume you mean software, do not have "buffers" as far as I know. The ASIO driver does. And theres only one ASIO driver running, with one buffer size.

I find it unlikely, though I suppose possible, that some piece of software, could ADD more buffer on top of the ASIO buffer.

I have no idea why you are chasing this. Set ASIO buffer size. Make music. End.

[ovnis]

I have no idea why you are chasing this. Set ASIO buffer size. End.

Because, I have to have a very fast latency to play piano correctly and sometimes I have to work with a big latency with some reaper projects. If I put a long latency in Reaper, my pianoteq will have the same latency so I will have to change the latency of pianoteq again if I want to play piano...

And if I want to work on my reapear project, again, I will have to change the latency inside Reaper...