Old 04-03-2016, 05:51 PM   #721
memyselfandus
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Originally Posted by Commala View Post
I was thinking about the FR I made to give the notation editor a dedicated midi note color map: http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=255


and it occurred to me that the midi editor allows you to set a default color map that will override the one included in the theme. Perhaps the notation editor could do the same thing, but in parallel, giving it a default override color map exclusive to it.

I thought that extending functionality which is already implemented could be a simpler matter than what I had suggested before, although being able to include a second color map within a theme to do this automatically for the user would still be ideal.
But color the actual note heads and not a colored square around them.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:31 PM   #722
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Thanks for all new features in notation editor especially for:
- support percussion clef with one staff line
- context menu for transposing instruments
- custom note heads can be set per-note or per-pitch
- add option to bracket tracks by folder
Notation editor turns into a powerful tool!


FRs and some ideas:

- percussion clef with one staff line takes the same amount of space as with 5 lines. Please let it occupy less space (vertically) for more compact view.

I remind you my old FR with some updates influenced by new feature “add option to bracket tracks by folder” from v5.20pre29:
- Please let the triangle button “folder is compacted/expanded” in the “track list” works as “gather/separate” the content of children tracks into one staff (to display in notation view only).

- An option to link/unlink folder trees in MIDI editor (notation view only) and real track's folder tree in main view. Because now the "option to bracket tracks by folder" is directly related to track routing which sims to be not logical or obvious and are from different worlds. imho. This link is handy for piano roll view - no problems.

- If a folder in notation editor is in compacted states let all the stuff settings of the folder track (clef, transposing, key signature etc) work for this gathered stuff folder even if children tracks have different stuff settings.

- Let an option "bracket tracks by folder" works for staff folder in the same mode as it does for single track (folders inside folders). Using this feature I can bracket two or more stuff folders.

An example:
It would be useful when I use my 12 horns (virtual instruments by Sample Modeling) each horn on a separate track, two staves by 6 horns inside (stuff folders) connected with a bracket (inside one parent folder) divided into 4 voices by 3 horns (two voices in two staves - upper and lower voices). So I have one double stuff which contains 12 fully functional tracks (six times less score space). I can write/edit notes using "target for inserting notes" and write/edit detailed MIDI CC information using piano roll view - very handy and flexible. And also I can expand this stuff folder to view in depth the whole horn section or compact when I do not need this depth.

- Please let the folder track be under the bracket together with children or be not visible as soon as it turns into a folder - by default. May be by choice.

- Let the click on the button "folder is compacted/expanded" in track list do not hide children tracks in the track list area - let all tracks be always visible in track list. Because I want to see witch one track is "target for inserting events" inside an compacted staff folder. Because there is an option "choose which track appears in track list" in the track list. I think it is enough for hiding tracks.

- There are actions “Activate previous/next visible MIDI item”, please create an action “Activate previous/next visible MIDI track”. For I could easily switch between the tracks I edit even if there are many items in one track and also if there are some tracks hidden in notation view (I’m not going to edit them).

P. S. Sorry for my poor English.
I hope this post will be useful
Thank you very much for you effort!

Dmitriy.
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Old 04-03-2016, 09:38 PM   #723
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Originally Posted by rluka View Post
Can this be done now?

Thanks for the response
Ron L
Yes, have a look in the Actions window. You can do it in many ways. I've tried two ways so far.

I started with a setup that specified the grid, then the note. But I soon realized this would prevent me writing more complex rhythms because it always divides the whole measure, instead of just making a relation from one note to the other. (let's say you started with one eight note and wanted a triplet after that; not possible using this way)

Then I found an action to specify note duration for next entered note. Perfect so far.

You could also try to do it the other way around, i.e. setting the pitch first, then the duration.
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Old 04-04-2016, 01:13 AM   #724
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... just another idea, just because the notation editor really seems to become a great feature:

Would it be possible to make it possible to link to graphics (jpg...) to be put above absolute note values? This would be awsome for Trumpet (in principle all instruments) fingerings.
My pupils would love it!!!!

You just need the notenumbers linked to an image to be put above the staff. Even O.K. if images are just standard numbers 0-127 (000.jpg, 001.jpg, 002.jpg, 003.jpg,...)as names to be opened from different folders. That's all. Simple but fantastic possibilities... One could rename the images to ones needs...
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Old 04-04-2016, 05:48 AM   #725
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Can you explain more please?
Think of it like the piano roll showing multiple MIDI tracks in one editor.

This is useful for orchestral scores where it is common to put multiple voices like two horn voices into one staff. This could be done by writing the two horn voices into one midi track. However, using more realistic tools like Samplemodeling, each Instrument (=Voice) must be strictly monophonic. So I need to input my two horn voices into two different tracks. In the notation view, however, I want to have these two voices presented in one staff (the first voice with the beams up, the second voice with the beams down).

See "Hr I&III" and "Hr II&IV" for example:
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:25 AM   #726
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Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave] View Post
Think of it like the piano roll showing multiple MIDI tracks in one editor.

This is useful for orchestral scores where it is common to put multiple voices like two horn voices into one staff. This could be done by writing the two horn voices into one midi track. However, using more realistic tools like Samplemodeling, each Instrument (=Voice) must be strictly monophonic. So I need to input my two horn voices into two different tracks. In the notation view, however, I want to have these two voices presented in one staff (the first voice with the beams up, the second voice with the beams down).
If you need to combine multiple instrument on a single staff, you can perhaps try the following:
- Write both voices in a single MIDI item, but separate them by channel.
- Alternatively, write the two voices in two separate items on the same track. (Use 'Free Item Positioning' to stack them nicely in the arrange view.)

(Eventually, we will probably also be able to route different voices to different destinations, similar to channel routing.)
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Old 04-04-2016, 06:43 AM   #727
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We are approaching release candidate status for the first release of the notation editor. We've started work on some of the more advanced features that have been discussed, but the current feature set seems roughly stable enough that it would be appropriate to officially release the notation editor with these features. We will continue to develop the more advanced features after 5.20 is official.

There's no set timeline for the release, and if problems come up during the release candidate process, we can always retreat back to prerelease for a while. But it is probably the case that we won't see any significant expansion of the feature set before 5.20 is officially released.
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:17 AM   #728
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Exciting news! Is it possible to color the actual note heads?



http://www.sibeliusblog.com/tips/cra...ss-color-code/
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:27 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by rluka View Post
Can this be done now?

Thanks for the response
Ron L
Yes, you're already using the two actions required for you current custom actions
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:28 AM   #730
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Originally Posted by memyselfandus View Post
Exciting news! Is it possible to color the actual note heads?

Not at present.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:27 AM   #731
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If I have multiple note pitches selected and change the note head for the selected pitch, it only sets it for the pitch of the note I right-clicked to open the context menu.

This is looking really good Schwa! Amazing work. Will the extended note names file format mentioned ages ago (for note head and staff line mapping) make it into the release?
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:34 AM   #732
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Extended note names format post 5.20.
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:35 AM   #733
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If I change the voice of an existing note, the voice combo reflects the change but new notes don't have the voice shown in the combo.

edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon
Extended note names format post 5.20.
Thanks ED. Can't wait for that to happen!
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Old 04-04-2016, 08:41 AM   #734
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1) Is there any way to delete an inserted clef, besides switching to event list? If not, could you perhaps add 'delete clef' to the context menu?

2) What do the new Actions "Set clef to first of pair" and "Set clef to second of pair" do?
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Old 04-04-2016, 10:11 AM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix View Post
If I have multiple note pitches selected and change the note head for the selected pitch, it only sets it for the pitch of the note I right-clicked to open the context menu.
That's by design. You can set a custom note head for all the selected notes regardless of pitch, or for one selected pitch at a time. I didn't think people would want to set a custom note head for multiple selected pitches at once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IXix View Post
If I change the voice of an existing note, the voice combo reflects the change but new notes don't have the voice shown in the combo.
Fixing, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
could you perhaps add 'delete clef' to the context menu
We'll add that, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
What do the new Actions "Set clef to first of pair" and "Set clef to second of pair" do?
Those are the generic names of the context menu actions that assign a note to either the treble or bass clef when using the grand staff.
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:30 PM   #736
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After struggling with the current key signature implementation I did some more testing and concluded the following:

“Key signature changes affects all tracks” actually means “Key signature changes affects all items” since turning it off means even separate items on a single track do not get key sigs from the timeline.

Personally I think it would be good to have a third key sig option where key sig changes are for all items per track (but not across tracks) since it is reasonable to have some tracks such as drum parts that don’t have a key sig but you want all the items on other tracks to get the key signature without having to enter it per item. Not a show stopper but could be useful.

Now to the most dangerous BUG/FEATURE I discovered which IMHO needs immediate fixing since it is destructive is that if you turn off “Key signature changes affects all tracks” and meticulously set all your key sigs per item but then start the project with “Key signature changes affects all tracks” turned on, it destructively wipes out all your individual key sigs .. let’s hope you notice it and exit the project without saving so you can correct the setting!

At the minimum making this a per-project setting could save some angst

The other main observation/request is usability/workflow related and concerns the relationship between the transport bar key sig setting in the piano role and the notation/timeline sig setting.

With “Key signature changes affects all tracks” OFF, the per midi item transport key sig setting reflects the key of each item (notwithstanding the issue I reported here http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=109 which is still a bit suss where depending upon which item you click to open the editor it may or may not work!).

However with “Key signature changes affects all tracks” ON, the per midi item transport key sig setting does not follow the notation/timeline key signature at all (it just stays at the last set value for any midi item).

Therefore with “Key signature changes affects all tracks” ON, my most common workflow for midi editing (as opposed to notation editing) consists of 1) clicking a MIDI item to edit it in piano roll 2) Switching to notation view to select the key sig to populate the transport/midi key sig 3) Switching back to piano roll to do edit with proper note names. Pretty clunky!

Now of course there is the case where the part is notionally in a key but has many accidentals that need to be editable in the midi editor but in this case you can just deselect the key setting in the midi editor transport which is much faster than the process above.

As a solution I propose an option along the lines of “link per MIDI item key to notation key” which would easily facilitate both cases depending on the setting.

Another much needed option for the case of working with “Key signature changes affects all tracks” OFF is to be able to easily apply a key sig to a number of selected midi items.

Now I would urge all interested parties to investigate this themselves since perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but then again you might be sorry if you just assume all is ok and it is released as it is now

P.S I have italicised specific recommendations to separate them from description of issues.
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:42 AM   #737
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
That's by design. You can set a custom note head for all the selected notes regardless of pitch, or for one selected pitch at a time. I didn't think people would want to set a custom note head for multiple selected pitches at once.
Fair enough. Perhaps that context menu option could be greyed if multiple pitches are selected, to avoid confusion and spurious bug reports?

I guess once the extended note names file format happens people will probably mostly use that to set note heads anyway.
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:46 AM   #738
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OR there should be two actions - one to change noteheads by pitch, or by current selection.
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:34 AM   #739
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
OR there should be two actions - one to change noteheads by pitch, or by current selection.
What about one action to select all notes of the same pitch and another to change the note heads by selection
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:42 AM   #740
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casrya View Post
I did some more testing and concluded the following:
Some good points here, thanks for the detail.

For context, I think most users will leave the key signature setting in the default timeline mode (changes affect all tracks; key signatures are stored with the project timeline), rather than changing to local mode (changes do not affect all tracks; key signature changes are MIDI events stored in items). I think all of this discussion is about behavior in non-default, local mode, or behavior when switching between modes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casrya View Post
it is reasonable to have some tracks such as drum parts that don’t have a key sig but you want all the items on other tracks to get the key signature without having to enter it per item.
Agreed. The way this will work in the next build is: when in local key signature mode (non-default), the key signature dropdown will always be chased back to the most recent key signature change event in any editable item. The dropdown displays, and edits, only the most recent chased key signature event. I think this will address most of the issue you describe at the bottom of your post. If you want to insert a key change at the start of a media item, you'll still have to do so using either the notation editor or the event list, but that seems more predictable than having the dropdown insert a new event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by casrya View Post
it destructively wipes out all your individual key sigs
This was intended as a feature, to let you switch from timeline to local key signature mode without anything visible changing in the score, but I take your point. For the next build, timeline and local key signatures will persist in storage regardless of the mode. This means that if you have a bunch of key signature changes stored with the timeline and you switch to local mode, all of those changes will appear to vanish, but they will be restored if you switch back to timeline mode. That seems preferable to overwriting the local key signature changes with the timeline changes, which is what currently happens.
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Old 04-06-2016, 01:07 AM   #741
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Now I would urge all interested parties to investigate this themselves since perhaps I am misunderstanding something, but then again you might be sorry if you just assume all is ok and it is released as it is now
Very good discussion in your post above, thanks. I am still digesting all that now... Burp!

I'm just looking at keysignatures now, and I do like the default behaviour of project keysignature.

I mean like if I add a new track (part) into a project and then create a new MIDI item that spans a key change then the project keysignatures are reflected (evident) in that item.

I really like how that when 'snap to scale' is on, then new notes drawn in will snap correctly in that new item, on each side of the keysig change.

It makes sense of course that these 'project' keysigs do not appear in the Event list, as they are not stored in a MIDI item.

Am I right in saying though that the only place that 'project' timesignatures are showed beside in the Notation editor (as the sharp/flat signs) is in the check box at the bottom of the editor (Piano roll or Notation view)? Currently the Key status does not update when the play cursor travels over it, only with edit cursor position.

Soooo, I come finally to my question (to Schwa): Will the track 0 keysig changes be editable (and viewable) in the project timeline at any point? Like is this a possible feature?

I was thinking another envelope in the master track maybe? Maybe global keysignatures need to be more visible?

Last edited by hamish; 04-06-2016 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:19 AM   #742
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Originally Posted by hamish View Post
Maybe global keysignatures need to be more visible?
The only place global key signatures are used is in the notation editor, so I'm not sure how useful it would be to have them displayed on the timeline.

Global key signature changes also aren't output as REAPER notation events, just as time signature changes aren't.
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:40 AM   #743
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Maybe a JS function to get global key sig could be a good idea just to leave lying around in case anybody fancies using it?
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Old 04-06-2016, 05:41 AM   #744
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Default Following the score

I'm not sure how to explain this and I hope this is not that I didn't found how to configure this.

Say you have a 64 bars part and you open the score window in a way that you see only one line at a time, and in this window you only see 12 bars.
It would be good if, when playing the song it reaches bar 13 the window would automatically jump to the next 12 bars so one can see it.

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Old 04-06-2016, 04:12 PM   #745
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
The only place global key signatures are used is in the notation editor, so I'm not sure how useful it would be to have them displayed on the timeline.

Global key signature changes also aren't output as REAPER notation events, just as time signature changes aren't.
I understand that Global key signatures and time signatures are not REAPER notation events, they are MIDI meta events.

It has been requested previously (over the course of 4-5 years) that we could edit these (key signature) meta events in REAPER.


Now we have a way, and I am very happy. For me it's fine, because I understand the MIDI editor key status and Notation keysignatures are 'being stored with the project timeline'.

I do expect that many people (especially first time users) will be looking for some place to set a global project keysignature, like in the project settings dialog, along with project tempo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snooks View Post
Maybe a JS function to get global key sig could be a good idea just to leave lying around in case anybody fancies using it?
I would call that 'brutal indoctrination'
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Old 04-06-2016, 04:25 PM   #746
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Originally Posted by Olymoon View Post
It would be good if, when playing the song it reaches bar 13 the window would automatically jump to the next 12 bars so one can see it.
Have you got Options > Automatically scroll view during playback selected? (in the main REAPER menu)

Working fine here.
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Old 04-06-2016, 09:25 PM   #747
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Agreed. The way this will work in the next build is: when in local key signature mode (non-default), the key signature dropdown will always be chased back to the most recent key signature change event in any editable item. The dropdown displays, and edits, only the most recent chased key signature event. I think this will address most of the issue you describe at the bottom of your post. If you want to insert a key change at the start of a media item, you'll still have to do so using either the notation editor or the event list, but that seems more predictable than having the dropdown insert a new event.
Hi Schwa,

Thanks for your quick reply and the key signature updates to the notation editor in pre31.

The midi dropdown key sig chasing in non default (local mode) works well now and I wonder if it can also be applied when switching midi items with the track list? (this currently does not work).

I do still think that even in default mode one would generally want to edit the midi piano roll using the same key signature that would be applied to that section in the notation view. As such an option to populate the midi key sig dropdown in the default mode from the current applicable key in the notation view would be useful even if it was unidirectional meaning that it reads from the notation key sig but does not modify the notation key sig if changed (since I do appreciate your point about not wanting the midi key signature to affect the default mode timeline signatures).

Anyway, I am happy to leave these suggestions to your judgement to decide if they are workable but from my perspective they would help workflow.

Cheers,

casrya

Last edited by casrya; 04-06-2016 at 09:58 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 04-07-2016, 12:27 AM   #748
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Have you got Options > Automatically scroll view during playback selected? (in the main REAPER menu)

Working fine here.
Yes "Automatically scroll view during playback" was selected.
But to check it, I changed to piano roll view and it worked but with a different zooming.
So I came back to score view, changed the zoom, and now it works.
It seems to be related to the track view zoom.

BTW, the scroll bar in the score view, cannot be used to change the zoom. When I over it, mouse cursor changes to double arrow but clicking on the scroll bar and moving the mouse does not do any thing.

In my prior message I forgot something very important:
THANK YOU SO MUCH TO REAPER'S TEAM FOR THIS FANTASTIC PROGRAM AND SPECIALLY FOR THIS UPDATE. BY BUYING THIS DAW I REALLY FEEL I BET ON THE RIGHT HORSE.
YOU ARE THE FINEST.
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Old 04-07-2016, 01:05 AM   #749
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Yes, that's right the scroll bar doesn't zoom in notation. I am using the mouse about 30% more than ever have, mouse wheel zooms, Alt+mouse wheel to scroll, Ctrl+mouse wheel to change staff aspect ratio.

Also I have had some sketchy behaviour with auto-scrolling in notation view since claiming that it was all good.
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Old 04-07-2016, 02:48 AM   #750
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I'm not sure this is the place to post this, so if wrong please tell me.

I'm wondering if it's possible to add any alteration at the beginning of the track to obtain transposition.

As an example, the track is in C major so all thirds are E, is it possible to add a flat on the E note line at the beginning so all E became E flat?

This could lead to modal transposition and many other interesting uses.
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Old 04-07-2016, 05:28 PM   #751
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Is support for white (but not double) accidentals planned, i.e. E sharp, B sharp, F flat, C flat? I didn't see them in the feature requests, but they are slightly more common than double accidentals so I think should be addressed at the same time as them.
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Old 04-07-2016, 05:54 PM   #752
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A while ago I mentioned the following niggle:

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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Possible bug: When an articulation or ornament is added to a note that is not in the default voice, the symbol is placed waaaay above or waaaay below the note, even if the note itself is above or below the staff.
I neglected to mention that I was referring to whole notes. The notes do not have stems, but the articulation is placed at a distance as if there is a stem between the notehead and the articulation symbol.
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Old 04-07-2016, 06:47 PM   #753
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The notes do not have stems, but the articulation is placed at a distance as if there is a stem between the notehead and the articulation symbol.
Fixing, thanks for the clarification (I couldn't figure out what you were talking about originally).
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:21 AM   #754
Commala
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Could we have an option to disable the white grid lines?

Currently they overlap the staff lines, which begins to bother me after using the notation editor for a while. I also don't personally feel that they're necessary, as I have a toolbar that displays the current grid status clearly enough. Most other notation editors also do not display such a grid.

Another small details question: the ledger lines are ~3 pixels in thickness, which looks fine when the staff is zoomed in, but not as good zoomed out. Could the ledger glyphs be made thinner when the editor is zoomed out past a certain point?
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:43 AM   #755
juliansader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala View Post
Could we have an option to disable the white grid lines?

Currently they overlap the staff lines, which begins to bother me after using the notation editor for a while. I also don't personally feel that they're necessary, as I have a toolbar that displays the current grid status clearly enough. Most other notation editors also do not display such a grid.
If you are referring to the vertical lines, they can be disabled by clicking the "Show grid" button in the default toolbar, which runs the "View: Toggle grid" action.

(Personally I find them very useful.)
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Old 04-08-2016, 10:43 AM   #756
Commala
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
If you are referring to the vertical lines, they can be disabled by clicking the "Show grid" button in the default toolbar, which runs the "View: Toggle grid" action.

(Personally I find them very useful.)
Ah yes that works. I was afraid that would prevent using grid size in other actions but it looks like the visibility is affected separately.

I don't want to turn this into newb-fest here, but perhaps you can tell me: how do you make a time selection in the notation editor?

I have loop selection separate from time selection, so I can alt-drag in the tempo line in notation but that sets loop and time together.
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Old 04-08-2016, 11:41 AM   #757
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I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but it doesn't seem possible to add a slur/phrase to the second of two notes that are tied, like in the image attached.
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:02 PM   #758
Victor_M
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Indeed. Yes, slurs need more improvements. Your example is right.
And again I make FR about editable slurs (as an example - Finale, MuseScore, Sibelius etc.) It will be really, really useful and handy!
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:40 PM   #759
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Vertical zoom via CTRL+Mousewheel does not give maximum zoom sometimes. One needs to zoom horizontlly without CTRL modifier (which seems to act as combined horizontal/vertical zoom).

IMO CTRL+Mousewheel should do vertical zoom only and Mousewheel only should do horizontal zoom only.

(5.20pre33)
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Old 04-08-2016, 12:49 PM   #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dstruct View Post
Vertical zoom via CTRL+Mousewheel does not give maximum zoom sometimes. One needs to zoom horizontlly without CTRL modifier (which seems to act as combined horizontal/vertical zoom).
This is by design after multiple iterations of trial and error. An individual measure needs to maintain a consistent aspect ratio as you zoom horizontally, or else things get unreadable very quickly. Vertical zoom (control+mousewheel by default) scales that aspect ratio up or down. It may be that you want a higher maximum aspect ratio (higher in this case meaning the measure is taller relative to its width)?
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