Old 12-29-2016, 09:08 PM   #1081
Commala
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I made a report in the BR forum that mentioned this, Soli is referring to making a tuplet, selecting those notes and changing the voice of all the notes.

I haven't been able to notate a tuplet correctly in any voice besides default, thought I'd tried everything. I didn't realize you could change the voice of the bracket itself, will try this.

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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Oh, one little but useful FR : can we have actions to set selected notes to default/top/bottom staff?
I thought this existed already? I use it all the time

Last edited by Commala; 12-29-2016 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 12-30-2016, 04:09 AM   #1082
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Originally Posted by Commala View Post
I made a report in the BR forum that mentioned this, Soli is referring to making a tuplet, selecting those notes and changing the voice of all the notes.
This ^... Anyway, now that I change the bracket voice itself, it works fine! Let me show you, though, what happens when you change, as Commala says, the voice of the tuplet notes themselves :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xcg0efx0gt...alues.gif?dl=0

As you can see, it can be quite confusing, since it changes the already existing values into something thatīs wrong. I see the point in avoiding wrong collection of notes in the tuplet, but this side effect should also be avoided, donīt you think?

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Originally Posted by Commala View Post
I thought this existed already? I use it all the time
Sorry, my fault!! I got confused and didnīt see them. You can forget about that FR statement (I canīt find how to cross out that sentence, by the way, since I see some people does it on the forum)
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Old 12-30-2016, 07:10 AM   #1083
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Further observations...

First, take a look at this

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2345gtbgln...olbar.gif?dl=0

I added all the "Set length for next inserted note..." to a floating toolbar. In the GIF you can observe that :

- Some buttons remain highlighted although their function is no longer active.(Maybe this is a derivation of a broader toolbar issue)

- When you set note lengths regardless of grid size, the "Grid" option in the Notes box at the bottom dissapears. I have to close the notation editor and open it again to have it available again.

Besides, Iīd like to make some suggestions regarding Step Input :

Correct me if Iīm wrong but note entry in Reaperīs notation editor seems to me, as it is now, more oriented to mouse usage than step input. This is rather complex to explain, but suppose you want to quickly write a passage like this with your MIDI controller keyboard :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3hth15p2c271ukh/01%20Dotted%20and%20straight%20values.jpg?dl=0

I have tried many, many combination of shortcuts/actions with step input, but I canīt seem to write such a passage (to give only a simple example) in a clean and rapid manner. The problem, in my opinion, lies in the different discrepancies that arise between grid, note length and the position of the edit cursor. I would remark the following things :

- Right now, the only way to have the edit cursor placed at the end of the last inserted note via step input is the grid-dependent entry. If you set note lengths independently, the edit cursor advances one grid unit, but that does not help to continue entering new values when dotted rythms come into play.

- We would need a way to step input notes of any value at any place while having the edit cursor always placed at the end of last entered note, regardless of grid preferences. If Iīm not explaining this clearly (most probably Iīm not), just try to write quickly the example shown above by only defining the value for the next note and playing the corrresponding note/s in the controller. Youīll always have to redefine the edit cursor position with the mouse if you combine dotted and straight values, among other things, and while we can somehow achieve it, itīs neither comfortable/fluid nor rapid. We should be able to step input whoņe passages with ay combination of values without having to redefine/correct things by hand with the mouse. If Iīm losing from sight some magical settings which allow this, please enlighten me, because right now Iīm getting a better workflow with mouse entry than step input.

Even a simpler passage like this seems to be rather convoluted to achieve in a fast way with step input :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7pfngz62pe...notes.jpg?dl=0

- Excuse me if I put Sibelius as an example here (I know weīre dealing with a totally different paradigm), but I have to say that their step input mode is really fast in this regard : you only have to define next value (whether straight, dotted or whatever you want) and play the note/s. You just click anywhere (be it a selected bar, a silence or an existing note) and you begin to write combining any possible values while you insert notes with your controller. I know that we depend on the grid on a greater extent here, and for example rests are not "proper objects" to place the cursor in them and just write above them, but a way to combine values without manual correction would be very useful for step input users.

- The fastest way I can find is with snap off, setting new values independently of grid size and repositioning edit cursor with a shortcut at the end of last entered/selected note. The main problem is that you have to reposition with every new note (I mean, if you combine dotted and straight values as in the example), so itīs rather a painful method...

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Old 12-30-2016, 07:54 AM   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
having the edit cursor always placed at the end of last entered note, regardless of grid preferences
We can add this, when snap is disabled.
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Old 12-30-2016, 09:58 AM   #1085
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We can add this, when snap is disabled.
That will be great, for sure!!
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:03 AM   #1086
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Soli, I don't understand the problem you're having here exactly? I've definitely run into some problems with step input, but as to the example of alternating dotted eighths and sixteenths:



So here the edit cursor is being placed at the end of last entered note. I have snap disabled and the shortcuts I'm using are numpad keys assigned to changed the note value field and grid value field simultaneously, with another key that sets the current division to dotted.

So obviously this is not regardless of grid preferences as you stated in your post. Why is that important? I think I may know why because as I said I've run into problems before, but I can't remember exactly what they were right now, so it would be good for me if you could explain?
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:17 AM   #1087
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Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
This ^... Anyway, now that I change the bracket voice itself, it works fine!
Ahh, so the tuplet needs to be created in that voice, and the notes need to be assigned to that voice independently. Finally I've got it!

As Schwa suggested, to have the tuplet change voice if all notes contained in it are of a particular voice, this is how I was expecting it to work, but of course I'm not sure what problems this may create as far as tuplets in one voice collecting notes in other voices.

An alternative if that won't work may be to make the actions 'Set high voice' 'set low voice' and 'set default voice' also work on the tuplet itself, rather than just on notes?
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:19 AM   #1088
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Originally Posted by Commala View Post
I don't understand the problem you're having here exactly?
I believe the issue comes when using MIDI input or function keys for step sequencing. At present, this always advances the cursor to the next grid point.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:28 AM   #1089
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I believe the issue comes when using MIDI input or function keys for step sequencing. At present, this always advances the cursor to the next grid point.
Yes, but why is it important to have a separate grid value from note value? Intuitively I would imagine that if you want to add notes that are shorter or longer than the grid, and have the cursor advance to the grid rather than the end of the note, then you'd need to have separate values for grid and notes.

But the opposite seems to be requested here. Why would you want the cursor to advance to the end of the note just entered and have the grid set to a different value than the value of that note? I can't see what situation this is intended for that the method I've been using (as shown above) would not be able to accommodate. Interested to know! It seems that in the majority of monophonic cases, this method should be sufficient. Is it to do with layering of overlapping polyphonic voices?

Or is it so that you don't need to have snap disabled? Because with the method I'm using, the problem isn't that the cursor doesn't advance to the end of the note when snap is enabled, but that the step entry doesn't place the note at the cursor but rather on the grid instead, causing problems. This is because my shortcuts set the value for subsequent notes and grid together, so if I want to insert a dotted eighth that isn't on the dotted eighth grid, step entry won't allow it when snap is enabled (which doesn't seem right to me)

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Old 12-30-2016, 10:38 AM   #1090
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While you're tinkering with step input would it be possible to prevent notes being added to the selection as they are entered and instead just have the last note entered selected? - like Sibelius
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:48 AM   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
While you're tinkering with step input would it be possible to prevent notes being added to the selection as they are entered and instead just have the last note entered selected? - like Sibelius
I'd like this as an option as well. But only optionally, because being able to enter a string of notes and have them all remain selected has advantages: it allows you to assign them all together to a staff, or to a voice, or copy them etc. In many situations (especially writing monophonic lines) this is preferable, at least for me.
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:52 AM   #1092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala View Post
Soli, I don't understand the problem you're having here exactly?
Schwa nails it below :

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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I believe the issue comes when using MIDI input or function keys for step sequencing. At present, this always advances the cursor to the next grid point. (Bold is mine)
This^^^. Iīm using MIDI input exclusively (with a Kurzweil controller). How are you entering notes, by the way? With MIDI input, it happens what Schwa describes, therefore forcing you to perform more than the basic actions that should be required to write any passage. I mean :

1) Defining next value
2) Entering the note with the keyboard (MIDI controller)

When you have to do more than this for long passages with alternating dotted and straight values - to give an example -, it becomes really tedious. I mean, as you enter alternating note values with an external MIDI controller, the edit cursor must at least be repositioned with a shortcut after each entry, which is quite annoying after a few moments.

Of course, what I say could be an option and not necessarily the only way to enter notes with MIDI input, but such an option seems to be very important in these cases. Is it understood now, or do you need some kind of recipe to reproduce what Iīm saying? If so, Iīll think about one later...
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Old 12-30-2016, 10:53 AM   #1093
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reddiesel41264 View Post
...would it be possible to prevent notes being added to the selection as they are entered and instead just have the last note entered selected? - like Sibelius
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala View Post
I'd like this as an option as well. But only optionally, because being able to enter a string of notes and have them all remain selected has advantages
Both reasons are valid in my opinion... An option for this would be quite useful...
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:06 AM   #1094
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
When you have to do more than this for long passages with alternating dotted and straight values
Actually I think Commala has a point. I assume you doing something like this: "set next note length to dotted", play a note on the controller, "set next note length to straight", play another note, etc? I think you can get the behavior you want if you set the note length to "grid" and use the actions "set grid type to dotted" and "set grid type to straight" instead of the "next note length" version of these actions, and make sure snap is off.

This is done alternating actions with playing the controller:

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Old 12-30-2016, 11:19 AM   #1095
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I'm using midi step input, of course, exactly the method you describe Soli. Except that my shortcut sets grid size and 'length for next inserted note' together. I can achieve exactly what you're after when snap is disabled. Schwa what you posted above looks good too, looks like it's maybe not necessary for my shortcuts to define length of next inserted note...

It'd be nice if step input would insert notes at edit cursor when snap is enabled, although in practice snap being disabled isn't really a handicap because I use the arrow keys to shuttle the edit cursor either by bar or by the grid value. This works whether snap is enabled or not
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Old 12-30-2016, 11:31 AM   #1096
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Well, both of you are right, then... I was sure that it didnīt work like that, but surely there was some silly mistake on my side lately. Forget about it, then...

Anyway, the bugs/nitpicks I pointed out above seem to be there, if Iīm not again wrong...
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Old 12-31-2016, 05:07 AM   #1097
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Thank you for the fixes, Schwa! (On the 5.32 pre4 thread I confirmed what Commala says about the toolbar buttons remaining highlighted after being clicked, by the way)

The grid option works fine now and the change in the tuplet notesī voice also! Iīll be testing the tuplets the following days, in case any anomaly arises.

Thanks again, as usual, and happy New Year for you and Justin!
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Old 01-01-2017, 12:01 AM   #1098
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Good opportunity to plug the FR for having an action to set the "next note length" to grid. Last time I looked this wasn't even possible via ReaScript API.




Edit: This is done in v5.32pre5 YAY!!!!

Last edited by gofer; 01-03-2017 at 03:45 AM. Reason: hurray :)
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Old 01-04-2017, 10:29 PM   #1099
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Some observations on the names of the text notation actions and their respective delete actions -

"Insert text notation..."
This appears to be the same as the dialog box that comes up when using the right-click menu Chords => "Other..."
It can be removed by running "Notation: Delete"

These could be named better, so as to make the functional connections between them obvious.
"Insert text notation..." could be called "Insert text/chord notation." Likewise "Notation: Delete" could be called "Notation: Delete text/chord notation." Unless of course "Chord notation" may be expanded to include chord symbols in the future, in which case by all means keep it conceptually separate
In any case, I think "Notation: delete" is too cryptic, seeing as how it only applies to text (for now?)

And then:
"Add text ornament..."
I can't find an action to remove these. "Remove note ornament" and "Notation: Delete" both don't work. Instead there is an entry in the right click menu Text => "Remove text", but no corresponding action...

Speaking of "Notation: Delete," it appears to have some bugs. I thought I had figured out a pattern of exactly when it didn't work, but I can't reproduce the pattern reliably... just now the action won't remove any of the chord text entries at all.
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Old 01-06-2017, 04:07 AM   #1100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala View Post
Some observations on the names of the text notation actions and their respective delete actions -

"Insert text notation..."
This appears to be the same as the dialog box that comes up when using the right-click menu Chords => "Other..."
It can be removed by running "Notation: Delete"

These could be named better, so as to make the functional connections between them obvious.
"Insert text notation..." could be called "Insert text/chord notation." Likewise "Notation: Delete" could be called "Notation: Delete text/chord notation." Unless of course "Chord notation" may be expanded to include chord symbols in the future, in which case by all means keep it conceptually separate
In any case, I think "Notation: delete" is too cryptic, seeing as how it only applies to text (for now?)

And then:
"Add text ornament..."
I can't find an action to remove these. "Remove note ornament" and "Notation: Delete" both don't work. Instead there is an entry in the right click menu Text => "Remove text", but no corresponding action...

Speaking of "Notation: Delete," it appears to have some bugs. I thought I had figured out a pattern of exactly when it didn't work, but I can't reproduce the pattern reliably... just now the action won't remove any of the chord text entries at all.
^^^^THIS! I posted yesterday in the Articulation Mapper thread about the necessity to have actions for every type of articulation insertion/deletion, and I think it has to do with Commalaīs statement tangentially. For example, "Insert text notation" and "Add text ornament" show boxes to enter text manually, but you donīt find an action to show the contextual menu of a loaded articulation map, above all when you work with a list of note text names. "Remove text", the action from the contextual menu, doesnīt have its corresponding action in the list. Both of these actions are, for example, a must if you want to add/remove text articulations in a fast and fluid manner. So, continuing with Commala remark, every possible action dealing with text/articulations in the Notation Editor should have its clearly named corresponding action in the ME list.

I havenīt tried to replicate the bug Commala talks about, but the consistance of names/functionality of these kind of actions is truly important for notation workflow.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:38 PM   #1101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
"Insert text notation" and "Add text ornament" show boxes to enter text manually, but you donīt find an action to show the contextual menu of a loaded articulation map
This would be great. If we could run an action and have a little dialog pop up (with focus), we could just press up or down and enter to get whatever text articulations/ornaments that have been defined in the map. It'd be a flexible way to work with maps that vary widely in their included articulations. Personally, I'd prefer a dialog rather than a pop-up submenu, because the keymap I'm using activates on focus with the midi editor, and a submenu doesn't break focus, making things work sorta funny. I'm trying to find a way to make the script detect a context menu and deactivate, but I don't know if it's possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
I havenīt tried to replicate the bug Commala talks about, but the consistance of names/functionality of these kind of actions is truly important for notation workflow.
I'll try and pin this down a bit more tonight
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Old 01-08-2017, 05:02 PM   #1102
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A few thoughts regarding adding and removing ornaments and articulations via the rightclick menu and Action list:

The "Add x ornament/articulation" Actions, as well as the corresponding menu items in the rightclick lists, actually *toggle* the ornament/articulations, instead of simply adding the articulation/ornament. These actions get rather awkward if the selected notes happen to include notes that already have the relevant articulation or ornament.

In the rightclick menus, the "Remove ornament" options are only available when the note under the mouse has an ornament, but it actually removes ornaments from all selected notes. I think this option should be available whenever any of the selected notes have some ornament. (Similarly for "Remove articulation".)

Whether a checkmark is displayed next to an ornament/articulation in the rightclick list seems to depend on the note under the mouse, not on the rest of the selected notes. If possible, it would be nicely informative if the checkmark could adopt three different states:
1) No mark, if none of the selected notes have the ornament/articulation;
2) Checkmark, if all the selected notes have the ornament/articulation;
3) Some other mark, perhaps "?", if some but not all the selected notes have the ornament/articulation.

If only some of the selected notes have the ornament/articulation, then clicking on the menu item should add the ornament/articulation to all the notes (similar to my proposal for the "Add ornament/articulation" Actions). If all the selected notes already have the ornament/articulation (and the checkmark is therefore displayed), clicking on the menu item can remove the ornament/articulation from all the notes.
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:08 PM   #1103
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Default Trills

First, a bug. It looks like trills clash when placed one right after the other.



Second, the whole note trill (trill on the left) is misleading. The ornament symbol is called whole note but it uses a double sharp accidental. When using accidentals in trills, the accidental is applied to the note a diatonic step above the trill. In the case above, the first trill would actually indicate trilling between a G and an A double-sharp (i.e. B) where as the trill on the right, though not labeled a whole step trill, does indicate a trill between G and A (whole step).

Behind Bars by Elaine Gould covers the nuances very succinctly on page 138.
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Old 01-09-2017, 04:21 PM   #1104
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Default Special note group feature request

Could we one day get the ability to group notes and assign a special notation feature?

For example:


The notes on the left would be grouped as a slide or gliss to visually appear like the notes on the right. The underlying MIDI would not actually change:



Ideally, a user could then move, stretch, shrink, etc. and the underlying MIDI would move, stretch, shrink together.

Glissando, slides, trills, and tremolos are the most obvious uses for this type of feature, but I imagine others could come up with other examples.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:11 PM   #1105
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Hi All,

I have a question about the recently added action "Notation: Identify chords on editor grid" and thought this was probably the best place to ask.

I have bound a key to use this action and it turns on fine which is handy but does not seem to be a toggle and I could not find a way to turn it off. Looking at the event list view it seems it has inserted a text event for each chord into the midi stream. So after reading some of the earlier posts I found that Notation: Delete will get rid of them but obviously this is a bit brute force if you have other notation you want to keep.

Hoping someone can point me in the right direction or clarify?

Thanks,

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Old 01-10-2017, 05:53 AM   #1106
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Currently there's no way to remove just the chord notation. We can add an action for this, though.
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:15 PM   #1107
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Does anyone else experience minor issues with the notation editor scrolling awkwardly? I've had this for quite some time, but working today it started to get to me a bit so I thought I would bring it up.

This goes for playback too, but just now I am entering notes with step input and much of the time the notation editor will shift the view so that the bar I'm working on is at the very top. More ideal would be if I could still see some of the bars preceding, but not a big deal. The real issue is when the view shifts to move the current bar off the screen (or mostly off the screen)

I'll make a gif and some steps a bit later, but I wanted to see if anyone else has this problem. I imagine this might have to do with specifics of screen resolution and staff size/zoom settings, in which case it could be just me.
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Old 01-10-2017, 01:46 PM   #1108
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Quote:
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Currently there's no way to remove just the chord notation. We can add an action for this, though.
Thanks Schwa, that would be useful for quick checks of "which chord progression was that again?"
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:01 PM   #1109
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Default Articulation Multiple Voice Bug

I'm not sure if this is a new bug or not. I can create a separate thread if needed. In short, I tried to attach different articulations to notes in Voice 1 and Voice 2. The assignments visually stick to the wrong note.

In this example, I tried attaching an accent to the selected note, but it appears associated with the top note.



Ornaments and text appear to work as expected.
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Old 01-10-2017, 09:10 PM   #1110
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Quote:
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Does anyone else experience minor issues with the notation editor scrolling awkwardly?

... The real issue is when the view shifts to move the current bar off the screen (or mostly off the screen)
Iīve noticed this on various occassions, but I wouldnīt be able right now to reproduce it voluntarily. If you can create a recipe to do it, it will be quite helpful!
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:00 AM   #1111
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First, a bug. It looks like trills clash when placed one right after the other.



Second, the whole note trill (trill on the left) is misleading. The ornament symbol is called whole note but it uses a double sharp accidental. When using accidentals in trills, the accidental is applied to the note a diatonic step above the trill. In the case above, the first trill would actually indicate trilling between a G and an A double-sharp (i.e. B) where as the trill on the right, though not labeled a whole step trill, does indicate a trill between G and A (whole step).

Behind Bars by Elaine Gould covers the nuances very succinctly on page 138.
@schwa,

Can you take a look at this post? I think it's especially relevant before the whole tone trill makes it into a formal build.

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=189
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Old 01-11-2017, 06:34 AM   #1112
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Originally Posted by pcartwright View Post
whole tone trill
This is a case where I think it's OK to have a difference between how REAPER records the notation internally, and what is notated. I have seen trills notated in the wild in all sorts of different ways including "tr w ~~~~~~~~" for a whole note trill.

I think we should keep the REAPER actions as trill and whole note trill (and potentially add other intervals later). As for how they are notated, probably best would be the most unambiguous notation:

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Old 01-11-2017, 07:49 AM   #1113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I think we should keep the REAPER actions as trill and whole note trill (and potentially add other intervals later). As for how they are notated, probably best would be the most unambiguous notation:

This would be ideal.
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Old 01-11-2017, 10:01 AM   #1114
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Default tuplet crash

pre release ver. 11

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: reaper.exe
Application Version: 5.3.1.21
Application Timestamp: 58740ada
Fault Module Name: reaper_midi.dll
Fault Module Version: 1.0.0.1
Fault Module Timestamp: 5874092c
Exception Code: c0000005
Exception Offset: 000000000012fa09
OS Version: 6.1.7601.2.1.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 23bc
Additional Information 2: 23bc2dd781b235cac552ab202cfa5bce
Additional Information 3: df6a
Additional Information 4: df6a435b54e40a24b7e4a94466f06c1f

Create a tuplet in the notation view and then left clk on it.. crash

Win 7 64 bit and Reaper 64 bit

anyone confirm this??? It is very repeatable for me.
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Old 01-16-2017, 10:28 AM   #1115
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Hi, is there a way to quantize with different settings single measures or group of them in the same track?

If I have a section with fast and slow movements it's a bit difficult to find the right quantization setting (well it's impossible!).

Maybe you can think about it if it's not already up.

Thank you.
Is there anyone who has this problem?

Maybe I'm doing something wrong...
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:33 PM   #1116
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You're not doing anything wrong.

The best way to do it (As Far As I Know) is with the juliansader script.

js_Notation - Set displayed length of selected notes to custom value.lua
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Old 01-16-2017, 01:38 PM   #1117
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There are actions in the MIDI editor section called "Notation: Nudge (position or length) display offset (left or right)." You can use these to fine-tune specific notes in order to get rid of short ties or rests.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:07 PM   #1118
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Originally Posted by hamish View Post
You're not doing anything wrong.

The best way to do it (As Far As I Know) is with the juliansader script.

js_Notation - Set displayed length of selected notes to custom value.lua
Thanks, I'll give it a try.

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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
There are actions in the MIDI editor section called "Notation: Nudge (position or length) display offset (left or right)." You can use these to fine-tune specific notes in order to get rid of short ties or rests.
Thank you.

Are you talking about tuning the quantization on the notation editor without touching the notes in the MIDI editor?

Because, this is what I need.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:12 PM   #1119
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Are you talking about tuning the quantization on the notation editor without touching the notes in the MIDI editor?
Yes, exactly. Those actions will nudge the displayed, quantized positions or lengths in the notation editor without changing the actual played positions of the notes.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:49 PM   #1120
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Yes, exactly. Those actions will nudge the displayed, quantized positions or lengths in the notation editor without changing the actual played positions of the notes.
Ok, thank you for the tip. I'll try it and let you know.
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