Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Q&A, Tips, Tricks and Howto

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-21-2020, 07:49 PM   #1
PointReyes
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 164
Default Setting up multitimbral instrument with outs on every MIDi channel.

I've done this before when I first started checking out Reaper and suddenly can't remember now that I'm going to use it on an actual session.

I need detailed step-by-step instructions on how to set up (from scratch, not with track presets!) a multimbral interment that has audio and MIDI on the same track per multiple output of the VST. I found a great explanation somewhere when I first started and can't seem to find it now. The video explanations I'm seeing so far don't tell me very specifically how to set up MIDI and audio on the same track for each output from the multimbral VST (or they show how to do it with a track preset, which doesn't help at all).

I know about "Allow feedback in routing..." -- it's the actual setup of the instrument itself and its I/O that I suddenly can't remember for some odd reason. Can anyone point me to a video or page (preferable because it's usually faster) that describes this?
__________________
Latest Reaper 6. Mac Pro trashcan 6-core 3.7gHz; 32g RAM; all SSD drives for system, audio, and (3 drives) samples; the most current OS X version; Apollo 8 2nd Gen interface

Last edited by PointReyes; 01-21-2020 at 08:16 PM.
PointReyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2020, 11:44 PM   #2
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
Default

supposedly this is not about "feedback routing", but about "pin routing" within a multi-channel track. (see the Reaper User Guide.)

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 01-22-2020 at 11:16 PM.
mschnell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2020, 12:38 PM   #3
PointReyes
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 164
Default

I got a good explanation from VI-Control, should anyone else need this info:

"Without going into full detail, here's how to do it in a nutshell:

1. First, enable "Allow feedback in routing" in Project Settings. Even though you'll be routing MIDI out and audio back, Reaper still doesn't allow it by default so this is always necessary.
2. For each MIDI track, route channel 1 from track 1 to Kontakt, ch. 2 from track 2, etc, then from the track with Kontakt loaded, route audio ch. 1/2 to track 1 and audio ch. 3/4 to track 2, etc.
3. You'll have to set up the outputs in Kontakt so that you can assign different instruments to different outputs.

I've seen plenty of videos cover setting up Kontakt in Reaper with separate MIDI and audio tracks, and this is just about the same, the only difference is the "Allow feedback in routing" setting to allow the MIDI and audio track to be the same one. Hope that helps."
__________________
Latest Reaper 6. Mac Pro trashcan 6-core 3.7gHz; 32g RAM; all SSD drives for system, audio, and (3 drives) samples; the most current OS X version; Apollo 8 2nd Gen interface
PointReyes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2020, 11:19 PM   #4
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,686
Default

I don't suppose that setting up a multitimbral instrument indeed needs feedback routing (as the signal flow can be drawn strictly top to bottom), but there are other (straight forward) ways to do that. As feedback routing disables PDC, this should be avoided.

-Michael
mschnell is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2020, 10:37 AM   #5
ashcat_lt
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
As feedback routing disables PDC, this should be avoided.
They want the audio to come out the same track they’ve got the midi on.

People always think they want this and spend a whole lot of time and effort trying to make it work. Pretty sure it comes from the way that other DAWs do it where the VSTi kind of sits in a rack of its own and can be addressed from any track of the correct type and that track type is designed to do that so it can but it can’t actually do anything else. It’s just a different paradigm altogether. One could use some gmem fuckery to make it happen without Reaper recognizing it as feedback, but that breaks PDC also, so....

The best thing for it is to get over the whole idea and use Reaper as intended. There are a lot of good reasons to have the audio and midi on different tracks. Show or hide only the ones you want at any given time. But OTOH sometimes it’s just not even worth the dicking around to set up multitimbral anything.

Which is to say that the easiest way to get what these folks want is to just use separate VSTis for each track. Now I don’t use Kontakt so I don’t know how much CPU overhead the GUi/wrapper thing adds, and I know some people have some absurd instrument counts, but I know for me sometimes it’s just easier to drop in another instance of EZ/SuperiorDrummer if I want some sub mix of the kit. I could get in and do all the multichannel routing. I personally am quite confident in my understanding of all that stuff. I just don’t wanna, and if it puts my machine over the edge CPU-wise, it’s a hint to make a fucking decision and commit at least some of the sounds to audio.
ashcat_lt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 01:20 PM   #6
SkippySounds
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 5
Default Large Template Routing

Hello. First let me say that this forum has been very helpful. I am a full time composer and write in many styles--generally to video. I have been working on creating a template so that I can save the time of constantly adding instruments to every project I work on.

Here's the issue I've run into:

--I'm setting up multitimbral instruments (mostly Kontakt 6). At the top of my session are all of the MIDI tracks, the bottom of the session contains the audio tracks. I'm not a huge fan of this system, but when I tried the "allow feedback, route audio back to MIDI track" system I started getting crackling and CPU overload.

--Now as my template has grown I am getting the crackling back. I'm not sure if it's due to a routing issue because I have FX bussing.

Has anyone created a large template (think film scoring or media composing) and successfully used it to write extensively? I don't use any live instruments. The only recordings may be WAV files here or there for SFX or background sounds.

Are there any routing tricks to help with large track counts?

Thanks in advance and please let me know if there is any more information I can provide to clarify this question.
SkippySounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2020, 11:22 PM   #7
Fex
Human being with feelings
 
Fex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Posts: 4,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkippySounds View Post
Are there any routing tricks to help with large track counts?
Rather than sending a lot of tracks to, say, a reverb buss, it might be quicker to have the receiving track "Add receives from all tracks" and then delete the ones you don't want.

Then there's View > Routing matrix.
Fex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 02:42 PM   #8
SkippySounds
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 5
Default Routing Tricks

Thank you--that is helpful!

But I should have been more specific that my issue isn't adding the routing, it's that my CPU is spiking and I'm curious if that is related to nesting folders and the way that Reaper handles the routing through multiple layers of folders.
SkippySounds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2020, 06:09 PM   #9
domzy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,823
Default

i wouldn't have thought it's a folder issue - my guess would be general CPU overload, the solutions to this being bigger block size (and higher latency) or a more powerful processor.
Have you checked Reaper's performance meter (ctrl + alt +P) - right click it and enable all the RT CPU options - this should give you an indication of which tracks are problematic.
domzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2020, 05:02 AM   #10
Suganthan
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkippySounds View Post
--
Has anyone created a large template (think film scoring or media composing) and successfully used it to write extensively? I don't use any live instruments. The only recordings may be WAV files here or there for SFX or background sounds.

Are there any routing tricks to help with large track counts?
I am doing something similar. In my computer, Reaper does tax some CPU for a higher number of tracks - Apart from the inbuilt Performance meter's CPU.

One main tip I can give you is there is a script by Tack, which can take your FX offline and mute the tracks so that CPU is saved for unnecessary tracks. Here is the link for the script, https://gist.github.com/jtackaberry/...233b22806aec9c

Oh, and be sure you also have the "Do not process muted tracks" option enabled
Suganthan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.