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Old 11-25-2021, 12:15 PM   #1
Vladimov
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Default Need alternative to Waves Rennaisance Bass

Hi!

Does anyone know if there are is a REAPER plugin alternative to Waves Rbass? I'm on a mission to eliminate all unpaid plugins from my arsenal and so far I've eliminated 95 percent of them in favor of all REAPER plugins. If there isn't then what free plugin alternative do you recommend?
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:22 PM   #2
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This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/

I'm not a fan of RBass unless you have a tuned room and speakers that really reproduce that low octave, and it should only be applied on a final master. It cannot be dialed out easily by a mastering engineer downline, so you're committed to whatever you've done.
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Old 11-25-2021, 02:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaras View Post
This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/
Bark of dog is an eq without any saturation as far as I remember from my test correctly.

RBass works something like this:
1) band filter a band (selectable frequency)
2) compress/saturate/distort it
3) mix it back to the original dry signal

It can be accomplished manually but of course having a single dedicated plugin is convenient. It does not add any lower harmonics, just the upper ones.

This free plugin works similarly but not completely the same
https://freevstplugins.net/analog-obsession-lovend/ This one I keep in my arsenal, and I keep few plugins.

Also check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Gs-o39C5o where a similar process is explained that can basically lead to the same results.

Last edited by bFooz; 11-25-2021 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 11-25-2021, 03:17 PM   #4
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https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=527943
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimov View Post
Hi!

Does anyone know if there are is a REAPER plugin alternative to Waves Rbass? I'm on a mission to eliminate all unpaid plugins from my arsenal and so far I've eliminated 95 percent of them in favor of all REAPER plugins. If there isn't then what free plugin alternative do you recommend?
You're not going to find a replacement for Rbass easily - free or paid. What it does is unique. However, you could set up a parallel buss and send your signal to it - isolate the low mids and apply saturation to it - then blend it back with the original signal. That might get you some of the way there to what Rbass/Maxxbass does.
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Old 11-25-2021, 04:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaras View Post
This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/

I'm not a fan of RBass unless you have a tuned room and speakers that really reproduce that low octave, and it should only be applied on a final master. It cannot be dialed out easily by a mastering engineer downline, so you're committed to whatever you've done.
Bark Of Dog is simply a one band EQ. You could do the exact same thing with ReaEQ.
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Old 11-25-2021, 05:59 PM   #7
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Waves had a patent on the Max/RenBass algorithm (now expired), that's why there were/are(?) no clones I guess.
Maybe by looking at it one could create a similar FX chain, I dunno.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5930373
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:01 PM   #8
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Analog Obsession LOVEND
BlurLabs infra (get it now while it's still available)
Voxengo GEQ (more subtle)
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Old 11-25-2021, 07:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Analog Obsession LOVEND
BlurLabs infra (get it now while it's still available)
Voxengo GEQ (more subtle)
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
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Old 11-25-2021, 11:12 PM   #10
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I will check out some of these suggestions.

Thanks!
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Old 11-26-2021, 12:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
Not all developers are in it only for the money. Lots of very, very competent plugins are cheap or even free.
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Old 11-26-2021, 01:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler View Post
Analog Obsession LOVEND
mmm, honestly you can do what Lovend does by usinng ReaEQ, a resonant HPF ad a couple of all-pass filters.
I'm not a big fan of the heavy pre-ringing by the way.
RBass is pretty unique and i never found something that sounds 100% the same, but you can try different things like the one from Plugin Alliance, Refuse Lowender or Melda Mbassador (works good on drums).

There are a lot of low end enancer plugins out there, most of them are just resonant HPFs, others are more complex.
It's a matter of trial and error to find something that works for you
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:01 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoe View Post
you can do what Lovend does by usinng ReaEQ, a resonant HPF ad a couple of all-pass filters.
Could you explain this a bit more? Lovend definitely generates low frequency harmonics and is more like a low shelf than a resonant HPF (checked with pink noise and also in PluginDoctor). But I do not completely understand allpass filters, so maybe I am missing something.
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Old 11-26-2021, 02:32 AM   #14
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Free:

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p...subfilter.html

https://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/pro...are/thump.html

Sub freq boosting for kicks:
https://www.wavesfactory.com/free-audio-plugins/sk10/


Paid:

For upper harmonics generation - $29
https://www.fieldingdsp.com/reviver

For sub harmonics generation - $69
https://www.refusesoftware.com/lowender
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:20 AM   #15
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Looks like Denise XL may be more along the lines of what I need. That or the Analog obsession plugin mentioned earlier.

https://www.denise.io/store/denise/BassXL
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:37 AM   #16
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Lots of folks use Bass Professor (free!) to enhance bass, but also use it for other instrumentation ...

dB
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Old 11-26-2021, 05:04 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz View Post
Bark of dog is an eq without any saturation as far as I remember from my test correctly.

RBass works something like this:
1) band filter a band (selectable frequency)
2) compress/saturate/distort it
3) mix it back to the original dry signal
If that's all it is, FabFilter Saturn can do that easily.
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Old 11-27-2021, 02:48 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by fakemaxwell View Post
If that's all it is, FabFilter Saturn can do that easily.
That's pretty pricey. I believe we could find more advanced saturation plugins able to do this.
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Old 11-27-2021, 02:52 AM   #19
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Have you tried the Airwindows plugins suggested in the KVR thread posted above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvr
Airwindows FathomFive, free.
Has replaced RBass for me, you have to dial back the mix knob a lot though.
https://www.airwindows.com/fathom-five/
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:27 AM   #20
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I've tried the airwindows plugin but it sucked when I briefly used it. I'll have to try it again. I'm not really a fan of the guys plugins. I demoed the denise plugin and it's the closest to what I need and inexpensive. Little did I know there's a JS bass enhancer plugin with selectable frequency that I did not know about which seems to give acceptable results. I would just buy the waves plugin but I don't want a separate license management system on my pc especially for one plugin
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:49 AM   #21
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There are also these payed saturation plugins allowing to shape the in+out eq in an emphasis-deephasis manner:

https://www.denise.io/store/denise/GodMode
https://www.wavesfactory.com/audio-plugins/spectre/
https://www.toneprojects.com/kelvin-tone-shaper.html

I do not own any of them, just demoed them. Each has slightly different approach to the same thing.
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Old 11-28-2021, 12:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaras View Post
This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/

I'm not a fan of RBass unless you have a tuned room and speakers that really reproduce that low octave, and it should only be applied on a final master. It cannot be dialed out easily by a mastering engineer downline, so you're committed to whatever you've done.
RBass does not add a lower octave. Waves has two subharmonic generator plug-ins, LoAir and Submarine, but they work very differently to how RBass and MaxxBass work. What RBass and MaxxBass do is they take a frequency range that you specify, saturate it to create higher order harmonics, then adds them back into the mix. You could maybe call it band selective parallel saturation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
The developer just called it quits and is giving away all plug-ins for free at the moment. Download them while you can, you might find something that's worth using. Download the ones from the actual Plugins page, not the beta bundle as they aren't very stable.
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:19 PM   #23
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Free , from plugin alliance -
https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p...subfilter.html
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:21 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonLinnarson View Post
RBass does not add a lower octave. Waves has two subharmonic generator plug-ins, LoAir and Submarine, but they work very differently to how RBass and MaxxBass work. What RBass and MaxxBass do is they take a frequency range that you specify, saturate it to create higher order harmonics, then adds them back into the mix.
Very common mistake, thinking that RBass is a subharmonic generator. I have seen presentations of it where people don't even stop to think what they are saying. "Some systems are not able to handle very low frequencies, so this (RBass) is a subharmonic generator to help with that." What? You cannot reproduce lows adequately, so let's bring in RBass which generates even lower lows?
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:24 PM   #25
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Quote:
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Very common mistake, thinking that RBass is a subharmonic generator. I have seen presentations of it where people don't even stop to think what they are saying. "Some systems are not able to handle very low frequencies, so this (RBass) is a subharmonic generator to help with that." What? You cannot reproduce lows adequately, so let's bring in RBass which generates even lower lows?
That´s what waves say on their manual:
https://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugi...sance-bass.pdf
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:38 PM   #26
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They speak about producing harmonics, not subharmonics below the fundamental. It's a psychoacoustic illusion where listener is tricked into "hearing" low bass frequencies which are not there in the actual audio. Picture in page 2 of that manual shows original vs. MaxxBass output. I believe Waves finetuned that idea further for the RBass. Speaking of which, RBass is the only Waves plugin that I have wanted for quite a while. But no Waves into my computer.

Last edited by xpander; 11-28-2021 at 03:11 PM. Reason: original link changed, thanks for the correct manual pepe.
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Old 11-28-2021, 01:41 PM   #27
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The good thing about the now free Blue Lab Infra is that it can do both...
https://youtu.be/AwetvVnKNe4
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Old 11-28-2021, 02:54 PM   #28
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Unfortunately BL Infra doesn't quite have it. It creates a low shelf boost below 1 kHz, regardless of what the phantom frequency selection is. Phantom mix at 50%, boost is 6 dB, at 100% it's about 10 dB. Phantom frequency knob adds even and/or odd harmonics in a straight descending level if original fundamental is anywhere below 500 Hz. I can get similar harmonics with other saturators and without the unneeded low shelf boost.
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Old 11-28-2021, 03:06 PM   #29
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Thank you for the insight. I haven't tried it yet, but the video posted above seemed quite interesting.
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Old 11-28-2021, 03:29 PM   #30
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You're welcome. It does make a heftier low mid/low end, but at the expense of messing the low freq balance with that boost. Klevgränd Knorr was a bit smoother in my quick test, but it was most audible as a higher freq saturator rather than faking low end.
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Old 11-28-2021, 04:16 PM   #31
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I have a love-hate relationship with Waves. Some of their plugins are downright cheesy. I'd even use the cliche "plastic sounding". These are the "good idea but horrible implementation" plugins.

And a few are just useless, in my opinion.

But then there are the few that, as much as I try, I can't find a plugin that does it better. I love RBass, it's really cool what it can do in a mix.
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Old 11-28-2021, 04:30 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
But then there are the few that, as much as I try, I can't find a plugin that does it better. I love RBass, it's really cool what it can do in a mix.
From all I've seen and heard, it surely seems to be unique in what it can do. Unfortunately, or maybe luckily I've never owned any Waves plugins and one plugin (even for free like RBass was once) can't make me get into Waves ecosystem.
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Old 11-28-2021, 05:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by xpander View Post
From all I've seen and heard, it surely seems to be unique in what it can do. Unfortunately, or maybe luckily I've never owned any Waves plugins and one plugin (even for free like RBass was once) can't make me get into Waves ecosystem.
Their ecosystem is not nearly as terrible as so many others, in my opinion. But there are SO many choices for us these days, there is no reason for anyone to use anything that they feel could compromise their work in any way.
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Old 11-28-2021, 05:47 PM   #34
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Good to hear that you've managed fine with Waves. But true that with choices. I try to keep mine as limited as comfortably possible, so any possible extra hassle just for one plugin doesn't seem like worth it to me. Would of course be a different case if I would've already been involved with them.
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Old 11-28-2021, 09:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
you didn't know there were free plugins?
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Old 11-28-2021, 10:22 PM   #36
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I've hoped for a long time that someone would develop a free version of MaxxBass... I haven't found anything that can make a smooth, deep bass audible on small speakers as effectively. It's the only Waves plugin I own and use. I didn't realize that their patent had expired... all the more reason to hope someone makes an alternative version. Kinda strange that it has never happened e.g during some KVR developer challenge or something. Maybe it's harder than it sounds.
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Old 11-29-2021, 12:51 AM   #37
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you didn't know there were free plugins?
I didn't know that there were so many.
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:39 AM   #38
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Unfiltered Audio Bass-Mint is similar to RBass. Try the overfold algorithm.
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Old 11-29-2021, 01:58 AM   #39
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TDR SlickEQ M has a similar thing although it is more subtle since the plugin is aimed at mastering. "Bass Excite" it's called and it slightly distort/enhance averything bellow selectable frequency is a low-shelf fasion. Unlike RBass which operates in a band-pass fashion.
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Old 11-29-2021, 03:10 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44 View Post
That´s what waves say on their manual:
https://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugi...sance-bass.pdf
Yeah, the higher order harmonics it creates will be heard in systems that can't reproduce the original frequncies.

I think he meant to say that it's a logic fallacy to think that adding RBass will make them hear the bass better on a system that can't reproduce low frequencies if they think that RBass is a subharmonic generator. If RBass was a subharmonic generator, adding a subharmonic wouldn't help them hear the bass any better at all.

Last edited by JonLinnarson; 11-29-2021 at 03:20 AM.
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