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11-25-2021, 12:15 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 4
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Need alternative to Waves Rennaisance Bass
Hi!
Does anyone know if there are is a REAPER plugin alternative to Waves Rbass? I'm on a mission to eliminate all unpaid plugins from my arsenal and so far I've eliminated 95 percent of them in favor of all REAPER plugins. If there isn't then what free plugin alternative do you recommend?
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11-25-2021, 02:22 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Center of the Universe
Posts: 162
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This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/
I'm not a fan of RBass unless you have a tuned room and speakers that really reproduce that low octave, and it should only be applied on a final master. It cannot be dialed out easily by a mastering engineer downline, so you're committed to whatever you've done.
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11-25-2021, 02:35 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaras
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Bark of dog is an eq without any saturation as far as I remember from my test correctly.
RBass works something like this:
1) band filter a band (selectable frequency)
2) compress/saturate/distort it
3) mix it back to the original dry signal
It can be accomplished manually but of course having a single dedicated plugin is convenient. It does not add any lower harmonics, just the upper ones.
This free plugin works similarly but not completely the same
https://freevstplugins.net/analog-obsession-lovend/ This one I keep in my arsenal, and I keep few plugins.
Also check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-Gs-o39C5o where a similar process is explained that can basically lead to the same results.
Last edited by bFooz; 11-25-2021 at 04:50 PM.
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11-25-2021, 03:17 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
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11-25-2021, 04:56 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimov
Hi!
Does anyone know if there are is a REAPER plugin alternative to Waves Rbass? I'm on a mission to eliminate all unpaid plugins from my arsenal and so far I've eliminated 95 percent of them in favor of all REAPER plugins. If there isn't then what free plugin alternative do you recommend?
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You're not going to find a replacement for Rbass easily - free or paid. What it does is unique. However, you could set up a parallel buss and send your signal to it - isolate the low mids and apply saturation to it - then blend it back with the original signal. That might get you some of the way there to what Rbass/Maxxbass does.
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11-25-2021, 04:57 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 4,846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaras
This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/
I'm not a fan of RBass unless you have a tuned room and speakers that really reproduce that low octave, and it should only be applied on a final master. It cannot be dialed out easily by a mastering engineer downline, so you're committed to whatever you've done.
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Bark Of Dog is simply a one band EQ. You could do the exact same thing with ReaEQ.
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11-25-2021, 05:59 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Waves had a patent on the Max/RenBass algorithm (now expired), that's why there were/are(?) no clones I guess.
Maybe by looking at it one could create a similar FX chain, I dunno.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US5930373
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11-25-2021, 07:01 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,207
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Analog Obsession LOVEND
BlurLabs infra (get it now while it's still available)
Voxengo GEQ (more subtle)
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11-25-2021, 07:22 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
Analog Obsession LOVEND
BlurLabs infra (get it now while it's still available)
Voxengo GEQ (more subtle)
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I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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11-25-2021, 11:12 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 4
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I will check out some of these suggestions.
Thanks!
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11-26-2021, 12:53 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
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Not all developers are in it only for the money. Lots of very, very competent plugins are cheap or even free.
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11-26-2021, 01:18 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fergler
Analog Obsession LOVEND
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mmm, honestly you can do what Lovend does by usinng ReaEQ, a resonant HPF ad a couple of all-pass filters.
I'm not a big fan of the heavy pre-ringing by the way.
RBass is pretty unique and i never found something that sounds 100% the same, but you can try different things like the one from Plugin Alliance, Refuse Lowender or Melda Mbassador (works good on drums).
There are a lot of low end enancer plugins out there, most of them are just resonant HPFs, others are more complex.
It's a matter of trial and error to find something that works for you
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11-26-2021, 02:01 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjoe
you can do what Lovend does by usinng ReaEQ, a resonant HPF ad a couple of all-pass filters.
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Could you explain this a bit more? Lovend definitely generates low frequency harmonics and is more like a low shelf than a resonant HPF (checked with pink noise and also in PluginDoctor). But I do not completely understand allpass filters, so maybe I am missing something.
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11-26-2021, 02:32 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Kaunas, Lithuania
Posts: 33
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11-26-2021, 09:20 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 4
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Looks like Denise XL may be more along the lines of what I need. That or the Analog obsession plugin mentioned earlier.
https://www.denise.io/store/denise/BassXL
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11-26-2021, 09:37 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Yorkshire, UK
Posts: 2,064
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Lots of folks use Bass Professor (free!) to enhance bass, but also use it for other instrumentation ...
dB
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11-26-2021, 05:04 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bFooz
Bark of dog is an eq without any saturation as far as I remember from my test correctly.
RBass works something like this:
1) band filter a band (selectable frequency)
2) compress/saturate/distort it
3) mix it back to the original dry signal
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If that's all it is, FabFilter Saturn can do that easily.
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11-27-2021, 02:48 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fakemaxwell
If that's all it is, FabFilter Saturn can do that easily.
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That's pretty pricey. I believe we could find more advanced saturation plugins able to do this.
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11-27-2021, 02:52 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
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Have you tried the Airwindows plugins suggested in the KVR thread posted above?
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvr
Airwindows FathomFive, free.
Has replaced RBass for me, you have to dial back the mix knob a lot though.
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https://www.airwindows.com/fathom-five/
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11-27-2021, 08:27 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 4
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I've tried the airwindows plugin but it sucked when I briefly used it. I'll have to try it again. I'm not really a fan of the guys plugins. I demoed the denise plugin and it's the closest to what I need and inexpensive. Little did I know there's a JS bass enhancer plugin with selectable frequency that I did not know about which seems to give acceptable results. I would just buy the waves plugin but I don't want a separate license management system on my pc especially for one plugin
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11-28-2021, 12:38 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaras
This doesn't work on the same principle as RBass, but it's free and it may get you there: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/product/bark-of-dog/
I'm not a fan of RBass unless you have a tuned room and speakers that really reproduce that low octave, and it should only be applied on a final master. It cannot be dialed out easily by a mastering engineer downline, so you're committed to whatever you've done.
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RBass does not add a lower octave. Waves has two subharmonic generator plug-ins, LoAir and Submarine, but they work very differently to how RBass and MaxxBass work. What RBass and MaxxBass do is they take a frequency range that you specify, saturate it to create higher order harmonics, then adds them back into the mix. You could maybe call it band selective parallel saturation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
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The developer just called it quits and is giving away all plug-ins for free at the moment. Download them while you can, you might find something that's worth using. Download the ones from the actual Plugins page, not the beta bundle as they aren't very stable.
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11-28-2021, 01:19 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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11-28-2021, 01:21 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonLinnarson
RBass does not add a lower octave. Waves has two subharmonic generator plug-ins, LoAir and Submarine, but they work very differently to how RBass and MaxxBass work. What RBass and MaxxBass do is they take a frequency range that you specify, saturate it to create higher order harmonics, then adds them back into the mix.
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Very common mistake, thinking that RBass is a subharmonic generator. I have seen presentations of it where people don't even stop to think what they are saying. "Some systems are not able to handle very low frequencies, so this (RBass) is a subharmonic generator to help with that." What? You cannot reproduce lows adequately, so let's bring in RBass which generates even lower lows?
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11-28-2021, 01:24 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
Very common mistake, thinking that RBass is a subharmonic generator. I have seen presentations of it where people don't even stop to think what they are saying. "Some systems are not able to handle very low frequencies, so this (RBass) is a subharmonic generator to help with that." What? You cannot reproduce lows adequately, so let's bring in RBass which generates even lower lows?
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That´s what waves say on their manual:
https://www.waves.com/1lib/pdf/plugi...sance-bass.pdf
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11-28-2021, 01:38 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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They speak about producing harmonics, not subharmonics below the fundamental. It's a psychoacoustic illusion where listener is tricked into "hearing" low bass frequencies which are not there in the actual audio. Picture in page 2 of that manual shows original vs. MaxxBass output. I believe Waves finetuned that idea further for the RBass. Speaking of which, RBass is the only Waves plugin that I have wanted for quite a while. But no Waves into my computer.
Last edited by xpander; 11-28-2021 at 03:11 PM.
Reason: original link changed, thanks for the correct manual pepe.
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11-28-2021, 01:41 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
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The good thing about the now free Blue Lab Infra is that it can do both...
https://youtu.be/AwetvVnKNe4
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11-28-2021, 02:54 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Unfortunately BL Infra doesn't quite have it. It creates a low shelf boost below 1 kHz, regardless of what the phantom frequency selection is. Phantom mix at 50%, boost is 6 dB, at 100% it's about 10 dB. Phantom frequency knob adds even and/or odd harmonics in a straight descending level if original fundamental is anywhere below 500 Hz. I can get similar harmonics with other saturators and without the unneeded low shelf boost.
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11-28-2021, 03:06 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: decepticon mothership in a hidden place inside a mountain
Posts: 3,754
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Thank you for the insight. I haven't tried it yet, but the video posted above seemed quite interesting.
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11-28-2021, 03:29 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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You're welcome. It does make a heftier low mid/low end, but at the expense of messing the low freq balance with that boost. Klevgränd Knorr was a bit smoother in my quick test, but it was most audible as a higher freq saturator rather than faking low end.
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11-28-2021, 04:16 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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I have a love-hate relationship with Waves. Some of their plugins are downright cheesy. I'd even use the cliche "plastic sounding". These are the "good idea but horrible implementation" plugins.
And a few are just useless, in my opinion.
But then there are the few that, as much as I try, I can't find a plugin that does it better. I love RBass, it's really cool what it can do in a mix.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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11-28-2021, 04:30 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
But then there are the few that, as much as I try, I can't find a plugin that does it better. I love RBass, it's really cool what it can do in a mix.
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From all I've seen and heard, it surely seems to be unique in what it can do. Unfortunately, or maybe luckily I've never owned any Waves plugins and one plugin (even for free like RBass was once) can't make me get into Waves ecosystem.
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11-28-2021, 05:12 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xpander
From all I've seen and heard, it surely seems to be unique in what it can do. Unfortunately, or maybe luckily I've never owned any Waves plugins and one plugin (even for free like RBass was once) can't make me get into Waves ecosystem.
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Their ecosystem is not nearly as terrible as so many others, in my opinion. But there are SO many choices for us these days, there is no reason for anyone to use anything that they feel could compromise their work in any way.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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11-28-2021, 05:47 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Terra incognita
Posts: 7,670
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Good to hear that you've managed fine with Waves. But true that with choices. I try to keep mine as limited as comfortably possible, so any possible extra hassle just for one plugin doesn't seem like worth it to me. Would of course be a different case if I would've already been involved with them.
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11-28-2021, 09:05 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: The Land of Oz
Posts: 702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43
I had never heard of these, so I went to the website....everything says "$0.00". What's up with that??
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you didn't know there were free plugins?
__________________
Have a GOOD time....ALL the time !
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11-28-2021, 10:22 PM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,409
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I've hoped for a long time that someone would develop a free version of MaxxBass... I haven't found anything that can make a smooth, deep bass audible on small speakers as effectively. It's the only Waves plugin I own and use. I didn't realize that their patent had expired... all the more reason to hope someone makes an alternative version. Kinda strange that it has never happened e.g during some KVR developer challenge or something. Maybe it's harder than it sounds.
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11-29-2021, 12:51 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzbass
you didn't know there were free plugins?
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I didn't know that there were so many.
__________________
The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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11-29-2021, 01:39 AM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 80
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Unfiltered Audio Bass-Mint is similar to RBass. Try the overfold algorithm.
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11-29-2021, 01:58 AM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Slovakia
Posts: 2,588
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TDR SlickEQ M has a similar thing although it is more subtle since the plugin is aimed at mastering. "Bass Excite" it's called and it slightly distort/enhance averything bellow selectable frequency is a low-shelf fasion. Unlike RBass which operates in a band-pass fashion.
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11-29-2021, 03:10 AM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44
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Yeah, the higher order harmonics it creates will be heard in systems that can't reproduce the original frequncies.
I think he meant to say that it's a logic fallacy to think that adding RBass will make them hear the bass better on a system that can't reproduce low frequencies if they think that RBass is a subharmonic generator. If RBass was a subharmonic generator, adding a subharmonic wouldn't help them hear the bass any better at all.
Last edited by JonLinnarson; 11-29-2021 at 03:20 AM.
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