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12-02-2021, 09:51 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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NGD: D'Angelico Bob Weir Premier blem... should I keep it?
ok, so I played this at a shop, and loved it.
I had every intention of buying from him, but I found a blem for 400 less, and my sister broke my stove on t-giving so 800 bucks right out the gate for that one...
and I found a blem on proaudiostar.com
and sprung for it.. how bad could it be? Well, it's seeming ok except for this situation. This is how it was shipped, and here's the blem:
im also noticing something interesting near the nut after inspecting it, and I'm not sure if this is just the way it is for these guitars:
It seems that the thing has DEFINITELY been dropped at some point. Whether it was in shipment or before it. This is not typically what I see from blem versions, typically its a minor cosmetic defect from the factory. This seems like something more. And I am wondering if it could have suffered more damage that I am not seeing.
Everything so far works great. It wasn't staying in tune initially, but the strings were old. I just put on new strings and I'm testing the waters with the tuning. Intonation from the factory was a few cents off on the thin strings, progressively worse down to the thicker ones to maybe about 6-7 cents. I'll intonate it later after the strings settle.
It already seems to be holding tune better.
My question is - should I keep it? One dent isn't so bad, but could there be other issues? I don't see any cracks in the guitar anywhere.
And then, if I keep it, how can I stop that dent from spreading? It is already a bit chipped near the crack and getting worse. it will take off more finish. Could I just color match it, paint it on cheaply and then put some kind of protectant? It doesn't need to look great, but from a distance it at least won't look so obvious.
Let me know what you think, much appreciated
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12-02-2021, 11:34 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Northeast Michigan
Posts: 3,460
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Wow... those are some big, blurry pictures...
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12-02-2021, 11:35 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Thank you for your helpful response :-)
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12-02-2021, 12:09 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: UK, in and around London.
Posts: 395
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No -- send it back if you can! Get a proper one!
I don't know what part of the world you're from, so I don't know how good consumer law is and what rights you have.
However, I'm from London, UK, and British consumer law is such that there's no way you'd have to keep this. Most suppliers of any repute at all wouldn't even put up a fight -- they'd just refund you or swap it out. Also, you have 14 days in England/Wales (not sure about Scotland or NI) to reject something without even giving a reason, as long as you return it in an identical condition to the state you received it in.
But in this case, the quality of what you received would be enough -- UK consumer law covers the quality of goods and services.
The dent is damage, pure and simple. In its own right enough to ship it back (imagine you were gigging; you want it to look good on stage right?). There's no way I could put up with that.
Also, machine heads etc. Well, it looks dodgy to me. If it won't stay in tune, well, it's just ropy. If you trust the brand I'd ask for a replacement. If not, send the whole thing back, get your money back, and treat yourself to something else.
PS. The exceptions to this would be "sold as seen". If it was half price because of that dent, it's a different matter, because you've bought it on that understanding. It might still be a good deal of course if you're competent at a bit of repairing yourself, or you know someone who could fill and repair this for a good price.
Last edited by SiddieNam; 12-02-2021 at 12:12 PM.
Reason: One more thing...
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12-02-2021, 12:50 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
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If you have access to a good luthier, they could probably repair that. A guitarist I worked with had a vintage ES335 Dot Neck get blown over by a big gust of wind at a gig, breaking the neck in half. Our local luthier not only fixed it so it played nice again, but looking close at the neck, nobody could spot any evidence of it ever being splintered.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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12-02-2021, 02:06 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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My understanding is the blemish was there before shipping and that's why you bought it at a discount? If so, keep it if you like the guitar, return it if you don't. You can at minimum make that chip look better.
As far as where the nut is, that looks like a stress crack in the binding, not a cracked neck, if that's all that is, it's up to you.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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12-03-2021, 10:47 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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copied from a FB post I made, maybe this rounds out some more info on it if anyone has time for more opinions
If its just a paint fix, I'll keep it. If it seems structural or some other damage that might be permanent, I will not. I am being offered a full refund, but no path to a new guitar at a discounted price (which is somewhat understandable). The seller was proaudiostar. There are lots of stories and reviews about them online, but I took the chance.
It's this: https://www.sweetwater.com/d-angelico-premier/series
Issues:
Tuning seemed like an issue, but it was just old strings. It stays in tune well after new strings put on.
The chip, obviously. Maybe some fill and glue to prevent it from spreading? Certainly not structural, but if it spreads the thing will get real ugly quick
Crack and uneven-ness at the nut. This could be very typical for guitars in general - but I am wondering if this are looks ok. I am being super critical, and maybe a little paranoid, but do the strings seem high at the nut? The action at the high E string looks like .75 at the nut... which is pretty low, no?
The saddles seem high, too. The action at the 12th fret is 175
The truss rod works so that's good
the intonation looks good right out of the gate. I should probably give the thing a setup later to see how it responds.
got a flashlight on it and couldn't find any cracks or anything anywhere.
So what do you think? I have an email out to D'Angelico support, and I've posted this in a few other places.
The only way, imo, this crack could have happened is if it fell, or someone tried to chop a tree down with it.
So, what kind of damage would a guitar have after falling besides this?
pics, just links this time:
bridge
https://www.dropbox.com/s/v0nqs8hi91...15108.jpg?dl=0
fret 1
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ptqcdwulq5...15133.jpg?dl=0
chip
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ubroudfhe1...15151.jpg?dl=0
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12-03-2021, 10:49 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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Quote:
The action at the 12th fret is 175
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If that is 1.75 mm, that's pretty much dead on your standard low'ish action height aka generally correct unless you don't like it. If it is that low and not buzzing, you're doing pretty decent.
I would check for buzzes etc and most importantly intonation, set that, see how chords tune all over the neck. See the humidity thread where I made a video of a guitar when intonation is really good, though all my guitars aren't 'that' good so use it as a reference point.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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12-04-2021, 09:07 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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what's the deal with the super high bridge saddles? I can't shim it cause its not a bolt on... I wonder if it's a defect
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12-04-2021, 10:09 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
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How can they be super high if your action is 1.75 mm? That's where you set the action.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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12-04-2021, 10:18 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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in the bridge pic above, the saddles are like all the way up. And the action is low. Which seems fishy
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12-05-2021, 08:21 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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ll depends on if it is a bolt on neck or not. FWIW, I would be taking a good hard look at WHERE the guitars are made. I have a nasty feeling this is Chinese craftsmen once again. For even the discounted price, there is no way I would pay what you did for a blem. chinese "copy" of the real thing, even if it has the fully authorised D`Angelico approval. It is still just a cheapo Chinese one.
I draw the line at anything below Japan & Korea at a pinch these days..
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Ici on parles Franglais
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12-05-2021, 08:22 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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It all depends on if it is a bolt on neck or not & who built it.
I would be taking a good hard look at WHERE the guitars are made. I have a nasty feeling this is Chinese craftsmen once again. For even the discounted price, there is no way I would pay what you did for a blem. Chinese "copy" of the real thing, even if it has the fully authorised D`Angelico approval. It is still just a cheapo Chinese one.
I draw the line at anything below Japan & Korea (at a pinch) these days..
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Ici on parles Franglais
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12-08-2021, 12:55 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 791
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Wow cool! Nice one.
Do you love it? It doesn't sound like you love it... yet. I mean, it's not a kid or a puppy, if you don't think this is going to do it for you send it back. I've made two recent guitar purchases and I have zero buyer's remorse. Which is fortunate certainly, but makes me think don't settle for less. This kind of thing colors your experience, I sadly have a guitar I used to love that I just don't anymore because some local "luthier" did a botch job on a refret and it just doesn't work for me anymore. Doesn't feel the same or play the same, and I felt like I had to move on, which I do not regret. Much.
As far as nuts and bolts, I'd call that level of damage more than a "blemish". But, yah, fixable, and you're being offered a full refund, so fair enough. Brings us back to the previous. Does it sound good? Are your fingers sore?
@ivan: Seems to be a set neck from Indonesia. I guess you've had bad experiences from Chinese mfrs? My Chinese Epiphone Alex Lifeson is freakin' beeyoutiful. Guy at the GC said it was better finished than the Gibson, which I don't believe, but just that he would even say that kinda gives me the happys.
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12-08-2021, 07:42 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin
My Chinese Epiphone Alex Lifeson is freakin' beeyoutiful. Guy at the GC said it was better finished than the Gibson, which I don't believe, but just that he would even say that kinda gives me the happys.
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Before I bought my Epiphone SG Pro 1966, I read a lot of reviews and videos. In one video a guy stripped down an Epiphone like mine, side by side with an American made Gibson SG, and showed how the neck pocket was a much tighter fit on the Chinese made SG.
I have a genuine 1975 Gibson L6S Midnight Special, but I prefer playing the Epiphone SG, because it plays easier. The SG has a Slim Taper D neck where the L6S has a C neck, which also makes a difference.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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12-09-2021, 12:36 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo
Before I bought my Epiphone SG Pro 1966, I read a lot of reviews and videos. In one video a guy stripped down an Epiphone like mine, side by side with an American made Gibson SG, and showed how the neck pocket was a much tighter fit on the Chinese made SG.
I have a genuine 1975 Gibson L6S Midnight Special, but I prefer playing the Epiphone SG, because it plays easier. The SG has a Slim Taper D neck where the L6S has a C neck, which also makes a difference.
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Yah it's been interesting, I've been a Strat (ish) kinda guy for a long time, but I think I get the Gibson thing now, it sounds good and is really nice to play. And then I pick up the Comanche again and it instantly reminds me why I love it lol. The G&L's Indonesian, the Epi's Chinese, I have no QC issues with either. If I were to get the US version of either, I'd get the G&L I think. The Epi's just everything I hoped it would be, where the G&L I'd really prefer another color and the frets aren't finished -badly- but for me they brought the edge bevel in a bit too far, makes it too easy for me to pull the strings off the fretboard in my sausage-fingered ham-fisted style.
Wow never heard of a L6S before, they seem to be a bit of a collector's item. Just as well you're not playing it then.
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12-09-2021, 01:50 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Polandia
Posts: 3,578
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It's almost 2022, you should expect items made with 1950s tech be now possible to make correctly pretty cheap and easy nowadays. Modern cheap guitars are beautiful, a setup and frets fix away from greatness at most, meaybe some easy hardware upgrade too. All mine are nowhere close to high end - but after doing the stuff mentioned they're absolutely great and put an end to any idea of aquiring a "brand" one really.
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12-09-2021, 07:48 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,055
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred garvin
Yah it's been interesting, I've been a Strat (ish) kinda guy for a long time, but I think I get the Gibson thing now, it sounds good and is really nice to play. And then I pick up the Comanche again and it instantly reminds me why I love it lol. The G&L's Indonesian, the Epi's Chinese, I have no QC issues with either. If I were to get the US version of either, I'd get the G&L I think. The Epi's just everything I hoped it would be, where the G&L I'd really prefer another color and the frets aren't finished -badly- but for me they brought the edge bevel in a bit too far, makes it too easy for me to pull the strings off the fretboard in my sausage-fingered ham-fisted style.
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I am way impressed with the craftsmanship on my Chinese made Epiphone SG Pro 1966. I didn't even have to tweak the bridge on that guitar, which surprised me. I played my Gibson on almost all projects up until I got the SG, and it's now my goto guitar. With its split pickups and push/pull volume pots, I run it mostly with the neck pickup in single coil, the bridge pickup in full humbucking mode, and use the two volumes to play with the tone. I'd dig a vintage G&L F100. I know two guys that have one of those.
Quote:
Wow never heard of a L6S before, they seem to be a bit of a collector's item. Just as well you're not playing it then.
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There were a lot of standard L6Ss made with the 5-way chicken head knob. The Midnight Special version is a weird bird for Gibson. Bolt on rock maple neck, countoured body, and through the body string binding. Like Strat meets Tele meets Les Paul. Mine is just like the wine colored one on Reverb. I bought it for $100 even from my luthier back in 1982.
https://reverb.com/p/gibson-l6-s-mid...cial-1974-1979
.
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Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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Last edited by Glennbo; 12-09-2021 at 07:53 AM.
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12-09-2021, 08:10 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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fuck it, found it online mint at a music store in VA. Took the blem back. It was 200 less than retail, vs. 300 less than for the fucked up one.
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12-09-2021, 09:54 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Great news, Jae!
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Ici on parles Franglais
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12-09-2021, 10:47 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,252
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Wow, shipped in a soft case? Definitely gonna arrive extra-blemmy...
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12-10-2021, 09:12 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
Wow, shipped in a soft case? Definitely gonna arrive extra-blemmy...
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well the good one was ALSO shipped in a soft case but the packaging was perfection!
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12-10-2021, 05:10 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,252
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I'm amazed at what constitutes "packing material" for some people. But sometimes you can wind up with some big savings for minor dings if you remember to get the insurance.
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12-10-2021, 11:54 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 791
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Well good for you, congrats! Looks like a really cool guitar. I really appreciate the designs that go beyond Strat/LP/HSS Strat w/Floyd. Like I wanted to want a St. Vincent cuz it looks cool and I'm a fan but as a guitar it just didn't seem to offer much beyond that especially as I prefer single coil-ish tones.
Nice to see D'Angelico reaching out to the midline market with designs that have their vibe, I wasn't aware they were doing that.
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