Old 05-21-2023, 03:51 AM   #41
Coachz
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Originally Posted by rafa1981 View Post
PURESTGain. Great example. I won't go in detail of what is plainly wrong on the description.

https://www.airwindows.com/purestgain-vst/

Then what it's doing:
https://github.com/airwindows/airwin...167C26-L167C34

I refuse to try to understand why all that gainchase and gainBchase stuff for smoothing, which could be very well be served by 1-pole smoother avoiding all those inefficient divisions and pow calls.

The interesting part starts once the smoothed gain is already computed.

Line 167, on the function processing doubles. If the input sample is less than 1.18e-23 it gets replaced by his noise generator in the range of 1.18e-17. It's not that it's dithering or noise shaping, no, the noise harmfully replaces the value.

Then if the gain is 1 it is special cased in the conditional. Multiplying a floating point value by 1 leaves it untouched. As a matter of fact multiplying a floating point by any power of two only touches the exponent, being 1 totally transparent, this case is still handled specially, highlighting either misunderstandings on how floating point code works or sloppy coding.

If the gain is not 1, then it simply multiplies in double precision (not long double as advertised).

So the double version of PurestGain is basically a very inefficient smoother, a regular gain multiplication and an obliteration of the signal under 1.18e-23.
Not to mention that it makes a tearing sound on my system when I adjust it during playback. His plugins are just janky in my world
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Old 05-21-2023, 08:43 AM   #42
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Well ... PureGain and BitGain work flawless on my system.

When jChrist first released this plugin, it seemed like some small novelty .. no big deal. It's a GAIN plugin ... nothing else.

To test it, I took a stack of PureGain plugs [10+], and A/B'd to one of my standard Gain plugs [same number amount].

Strangely enough ... PureGain was clearer, more transparent. I honestly didn't
think there'd be any kind of difference. That was the double blindtest result.
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Old 05-21-2023, 12:42 PM   #43
rafa1981
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Well, this JSFX below is applying a naive gain and atenuation N times on double precision. Then outputting the difference with the input.

To hear the rounding errors for 10 iterations (you probably did 5) I have to amplify 260dB. 260dB is a brutal amount. No one can hear anything that subtle on an A/B test.

Even with 1500 rounds a gain of around 200dB is needed to hear the residue.

Mind you, this is only hearing the residue isolated, not the residue masked with a much stronger signal.

You probably did something wrong on your test.

Quote:
desc:multiple gains

slider1:gain_db=0<-150,12,1> iteration gain (dB)
slider2utgain_db=0<0,260,1>output gain (dB)
slider3:count=100<1,500,1>count

in_pin:left input
in_pin:right input
out_pin:left output
out_pin:right output

@slider
gain=10^(gain_db/20);
outgain=10^(outgain_db/20);
invgain = 1 / gain;

@sample

l = spl0;
r = spl1;

loop(count,
l *= gain;
l *= invgain;
r *= gain;
r *= invgain;
);

spl0 -= l;
spl1 -= r;
spl0 *= outgain;
spl1 *= outgain;
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Old 05-21-2023, 02:07 PM   #44
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One of the slider declarations has a bug in it.
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Old 05-21-2023, 02:21 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by vitalker View Post
Ah, chmaha created many JSFX ports of Airwindows plugins:
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=275301
.
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Old 05-22-2023, 01:21 AM   #46
rafa1981
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Pure coincidence that something like the Gain thing commented here is now released for Pan:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...78417#p8678417
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Old 05-22-2023, 08:13 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafa1981 View Post
Pure coincidence that something like the Gain thing commented here is now released for Pan:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...78417#p8678417
Really appreciate your efforts in bringing some clarity!
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Old 05-25-2023, 09:13 AM   #48
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"A sine function gives you the softest overdrive that you can possibly have"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFqnj1s3IXk&t=854s

I don't know why someone would say that, it's not remotely true.

Here are several functions that are softer & there's no such thing as "softest possible" knee. The limit of softness would just be silence.




Not to mention, on that specific plugin, Console8BussOut, there's a hard-clipper on the output at -0.4 dB which tosses the softest-possible notion out the window.

Clamped Sine vs Console8BussOut
Harmonics and aliasing are significantly worse. There's no reason to hard-clip like that.

Last edited by ErBird; 05-25-2023 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 05-26-2023, 02:51 AM   #49
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My 2 cents, I've tried Console8 and its claims on adding more space to the mix. Either using Reaper's Project Media/FX Bay window to disable the plugins at once, or just disabling the Console8BussIn instance. It does seem to make a difference in perception, but only a minor one (not to mention that it may or may not be just me "wishing" for a difference). Once I got into using a room reverb and using aux tracks to delay sends into that reverb by different amounts, I have to admit that it was virtually impossible to tell what difference the Console8 plugins were doing.

As far as compressors, I've found it way easier to dial a compressor when you've got visual feedback. Besides that, the range of settings for his stuff go from usable to unusable, by design.

His ADClip7 can be pretty useful for making stuff really loud, but then again I'm not a mastering engineer, and it's not an end-all-be-all solution either. It's still clipping and too much of it can get nasty. I do know that there are plenty other ways to make your stuff louder, many of which I'm just now learning about.

Overall, I've found it unnecessary to use his plugins and sometimes can get in the way of having fun with the mixing process.
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Old 05-26-2023, 10:52 AM   #50
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I heard of this guy fairly recently only because I was looking into overtone generating plugins and came across his "pafnuty" plugin https://www.airwindows.com/pafnuty2/

It's actually quite interesting if you feed a pure sine wave into it -- where it gets interesting is when it "goes wrong" and starts clipping when you overlap notes, although it's too hard to control to be really playable before it sets off auto-muting... or you can turn off auto-muting and it makes some really horrible noises!

Being open-source, could be an interesting thing to play around with though... although I should probably watch his tutorial vid... but life's too short already to be honest!
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Old 05-26-2023, 11:38 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rafa1981 View Post
PURESTGain. Great example. I won't go in detail of what is plainly wrong on the description.
Why so negative?

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Old 05-26-2023, 01:42 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by AudioBabble View Post
I heard of this guy fairly recently only because I was looking into overtone generating plugins and came across his "pafnuty" plugin https://www.airwindows.com/pafnuty2/

It's actually quite interesting if you feed a pure sine wave into it -- where it gets interesting is when it "goes wrong" and starts clipping when you overlap notes, although it's too hard to control to be really playable before it sets off auto-muting... or you can turn off auto-muting and it makes some really horrible noises!

Being open-source, could be an interesting thing to play around with though... although I should probably watch his tutorial vid... but life's too short already to be honest!
As a bit of a sidenote, there's an old free 32 bit Win only plugin which seems quite similar (also Chebyshev based), Christortion.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220819...e/vst-plugins/

And Waves (of course) made a commercial version of obviously the same idea.
https://www.waves.com/plugins/cobalt-saphira

Last edited by nofish; 05-26-2023 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 05-31-2023, 02:58 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by nofish View Post
As a bit of a sidenote, there's an old free 32 bit Win only plugin which seems quite similar (also Chebyshev based), Christortion.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220819...e/vst-plugins/

And Waves (of course) made a commercial version of obviously the same idea.
https://www.waves.com/plugins/cobalt-saphira
It's almost spooky... the christortion does exactly the same thing as the pufnuty!
the waves thing looks a bit boring to be honest...

I was actually on the hunt for something to do the same kind of thing as my Boss Multi-Overtone guitar pedal, but quickly realized it's a different beast entirely... still haven't found anything quite the same, but ended up with Eventide Quadravox -- which is a friggin' awesome harmonizer!

Still haven't got to the bottom of what kind of voodoo goes on inside the Boss MO-2, and it seems Boss aren't giving much away either.
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Old 06-01-2023, 03:35 AM   #54
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I never got onto the AirWindows train because I really don't like the quirky combo of not having a GUI + having weird-ass names for each plugin. How am I supposed to remember what I'm looking for when in a session? Or should I spend half an hour finding the plugin, only to forget and spend another 15 minutes next time?
Why can't a reverb have 'reverb' in its name, why does it have to be "PersonadoPot'?!

Aside from that, I applaud his efforts. I just wish he would sort of 'amalgamate' his similar plugins into major plugins, not publish 30 thousand of little ones all over the place.
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Old 06-01-2023, 08:44 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz View Post
Not to mention that it makes a tearing sound on my system when I adjust it during playback. His plugins are just janky in my world
I use them quite a bit. I don't recall ever hearing anything like this. Not saying you didn't, I just wonder if it is something specific to your system or setup.
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Old 06-05-2023, 09:52 PM   #56
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They aren't "special" at all, objectively anyway.

The cult like following he has; thats the reason for people percieving them as such.

that being said, I appreciate very much the open source nature of his stuff, think he is a nice dude. I respect him for that.

I dont use any of the plugins(the "what does it do" is too obscure for me, and there are too many plugins. I aint wading through that stuff) but if people like them, cool. use away!
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Old 06-07-2023, 07:20 AM   #57
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I've always had the feeling that his more esoteric plug-ins (noise shaping, dithering stuff, very subtle colouring, etc.) are not useful at all.

But his more experimental saturation, distortion and filter plug-ins are fun for sound design. IIRC there was a couple fun reverb effects as well.
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