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Old 01-05-2011, 05:03 AM   #1
RBowlin
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Default White Backgrounds...gotta go

With all the cool possiblities with WALTER, it just isn't right that we've got to look at those blinding white backgrounds of the FX, tracklist and other windows-based screens. I'm no WALTER guy, so I don't know, but can the backgrounds be changed? If not, is it a difficult programming chore to make this change?

Such a change would surely clean the look of Reaper up a lot.

-Rich
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:06 AM   #2
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I'm no WALTER guy, so I don't know, but can the backgrounds be changed?
No, they cannot be changed with Walter right now.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:07 AM   #3
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Yes I totally agree, this needs changing as it makes Reaper feel cheap as in terms of looks. All the other DAW's can do it. Why is this such a problem to change?
This would really tighten up the look and feel. At the moment it feels like these windows are not part of Reaper.

Please sort this out guys
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:10 AM   #4
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Absolutely. WALTER should be able to change EVERY part of Reaper's interface, not just TCP, MCP, transport...
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:06 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by run, megalodon View Post
No, they cannot be changed with Walter right now.
I suspected not, since they can be changed by changing Windows preferences. And while this is by no means a show-stopper ( I got my wish with the dockers) it would, IMO, clean the look of Reaper up quite a bit.

-Rich
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:51 AM   #6
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should be great for a better look
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:56 AM   #7
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...if you want a +1 here is mine.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:27 AM   #8
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+10000000

really need to make these skinnable.

Its such a shame to have these nasty white windows when people are producing such amazing themes!

Also - since we're on the subject of graphical niggles, I really don't like the borders Reaper puts around my plugins: the header is fine, but the white borders on the left/right and bottom edges are pretty ugly...

Last edited by catfish; 01-05-2011 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:10 AM   #9
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On one hand I agree - those standard Windows/OSX backgrounds etc do look a bit ugly, especially when used well crafted and slick looking themes and would love to at least see something that can be 'skinned'.

But on the other-hand, is it not this very use of the default windows that helps keep the Reaper file size so low?

I'm no programmer, so I'm only guessing, but wouldn't any software that overwrites the look of the OS have to install something into the registry? That would restrict its portability.

The other option I think is to tell the software to disable the use of the OS's GUI systems entirely and then re-build them from scratch, which would be quite an undertaking I think!
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karl View Post
I'm no programmer, so I'm only guessing, but wouldn't any software that overwrites the look of the OS have to install something into the registry? That would restrict its portability.
No
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:19 AM   #11
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No
More 'do-able' than I think then!
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:29 AM   #12
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+1. Would look more a part of REAPER, much better. But only if REAPER can remain efficient and lean. Don't know if that would be affected, but seems innocent enough.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:32 AM   #13
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Registry has nothing to do with graphics, really. Reaper has its own high-speed low-resource drawing engine which renders all the graphics (LICE).

And then again, the only thing that would be bigger is the theme file (in case of skinning with PNGs - there's another method which would only recolor the windows on the fly, and that would probably be possible to do via WALTER code), which can be packed very efficiently as .ReaperThemeZip.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Reaper has its own high-speed low-resource drawing engine which renders all the graphics (LICE).
Yes, but that's for creating all the parts that are 'unique' to the functioning of the software - in that respect, the tools, the buttons, the tracks, the panels etc are ALL built from the ground up to create a piece of software.

Browsing files, accessing properties boxes/lists etc on the other-hand are functions already provided by the OS, which come with their own GUI. I'm guessing it's more economic to use them! Re-writing them and/or their GUI is not, I presume, the same as creating the GUI for the functions your own software provides. Is it?
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:54 AM   #15
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so as long as people don't go too crazy trying to get away from a certain look.
i absolutely HATE applications that try to reinvent the wheel as far as windows windows goes. windows is a common platform, don't try to create a 100% brand new, untested interface for me to use just because you want to look different...tons of audio apps do this and it's a pain in the ass. one reason reaper is great is because it makes logical use of what we've come to expect in windows, and i don't want that to change.

color, on the other hand, eh whatever, if that's what floats your boat
windows explorer/google etc must really bother yall if you don't like white...
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:55 AM   #16
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But you can probably use handles to skin the OS-provided functions instead of rewriting the whole functions to be skinnable. I guess...
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:00 AM   #17
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Ahhh, excellent. I'm only slightly versed in REALBasic, C, etc. where white is the GUI norm. In Reaper, it almost seemed like the FX, media, etc. were some kind of add-on windows like that, separate from the DAW, instead of like Logic's bin, for example.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
i absolutely HATE applications that try to reinvent the wheel as far as windows windows goes.
We mostly just wish to adjust the color scheme to the theme.
That's the easiest and a very big leap forward of making the
wheel rounder.

Some additional resize options (top bar, buttons etc) would
be a cherry on top.

[img]http://img507.**************/img507/6563/logicreaper.jpg[/img]

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Old 01-05-2011, 09:06 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Yes, but that's for creating all the parts that are 'unique' to the functioning of the software - in that respect, the tools, the buttons, the tracks, the panels etc are ALL built from the ground up to create a piece of software.

Browsing files, accessing properties boxes/lists etc on the other-hand are functions already provided by the OS, which come with their own GUI. I'm guessing it's more economic to use them! Re-writing them and/or their GUI is not, I presume, the same as creating the GUI for the functions your own software provides. Is it?
That's what I had thought was the case with Reaper, and what I was trying to say.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:16 AM   #20
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I really think it's nothing impossible for Cockos to do. They can definitely make WALTER to be able to skin absolutely every part of Reaper, if they want it to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by askjf.com
Question: Is there a prospect for WALTER to assimilate the whole Reaper UI unto itself, bit by bit, as R4 release cycle goes?
Asked by EvilDragon (78.3.236.x) on December 16 2010, 6:58pm
Reply on December 19 2010, 3:01pm:

I'll think about that.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:16 AM   #21
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windows explorer/google etc must really bother yall if you don't like white...
Its the contrast between the white backgrounds and some of the darker themes that bothers us!
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:33 AM   #22
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Instead of trying to emulate other DAWS, maybe people should develop themes that work with the OS rather than against it

Slicker versions of the classic theme maybe. One in Apple OSX style. A couple of XP ones (focussed on 'Silver' and 'Zune' maybe). Either would probably look fine in Vista/Win 7!

Last edited by karl; 01-05-2011 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:35 AM   #23
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For me its the stark contrast between nearly any Reaper theme and the bright white Windows backgrounds. I have a multi-monitor setup and the tracklist is like bright light in my eyes.

Again, I don't know how hard this would be to change, but I suspect a LOT of Reaper users would welcome this. Even if it bumps up Reaper's file size a little bit.

-Rich
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:17 PM   #24
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I WOULD LOVE THIS!

I'm evil (but not in an evildragon way) and therefore need White writing on a black background!

Been abusing my windows colours for many years now and love it!

(although I think my eyes really don't love it!)
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:28 PM   #25
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Hi,

My 2 cents...no need to be philosophical about it, just plz let Walter have the ability to control all gui elements. Its almost there now and its great.

Reaper is on its way to being in a class all its own..IMHO.

Guido
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:44 PM   #26
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Are any Windows and OSX programmers around that can share with us how hard it is to change a colour background for windows generated with system libraries, which I assume the white-window bits do ?

It may be that we're asking too much.
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:59 PM   #27
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I would love to see this sorted as it has bugged me ever since I started using Reaper. Come on guys I know you can do it +1
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
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but can the backgrounds be changed?
Yes.

ns
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:42 PM   #29
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Start > ControlPanel > Display > Appearance > Advanced > Item:Window

White Windows Begone
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:53 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Hi,

My 2 cents...no need to be philosophical about it, just plz let Walter have the ability to control all gui elements. Its almost there now and its great.

Reaper is on its way to being in a class all its own..IMHO.

Guido
I think it's more the issue that if they started down that path, there'd be heaps of work to get it all cleaned up, working cross-platform etc. That's time they could spend working on actual features.

My guess is it won't be touched for a while, then out of nowhere there'll be a release where most of those windows will be totally WALTERized.
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:55 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by RBowlin View Post
I suspected not, since they can be changed by changing Windows preferences. And while this is by no means a show-stopper ( I got my wish with the dockers) it would, IMO, clean the look of Reaper up quite a bit.

-Rich
+1 Agreed.
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeolian View Post
Start > ControlPanel > Display > Appearance > Advanced > Item:Window

White Windows Begone
Unfortunately it's not that simple as say you make them black and therefore have to change the writing to white. The writing then gets lost against some of the other backgrounds since that same colour is used for more than just the window text. I've tried his way and it gets problematic quick.

I can see why it may be hard to do though.

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Old 01-05-2011, 04:31 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightscope View Post
Yes.

ns
Quote:
Start > ControlPanel > Display > Appearance > Advanced > Item:Window

White Windows Begone
Yes, but thatīs a global action, - all other windows than Reaperīs will change color too.
Besides, - Iīm on mac and canīt change windowcolor globally - and neither do I want to.

You might have a look here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...72&postcount=1
The screenshots are not the best as they come from a 27" monitor at res. 2560*1440.
I`ve showed a white text and black background but itīs just an example
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Unfortunately it's not that simple as say you make them black and therefore have to change the writing to white. The writing then gets lost against some of the other backgrounds since that same colour is used for more than just the window text. I've tried his way and it gets problematic quick.

I can see why it my be hard to do though.
I have made these changes within Windows but it's kludgy at best. I was hoping Cockos could somehow paste a png file in there somewhere and change the look, but as many have speculated, that might be easier said than done. Still though, I didn't think the docker stuff would happen...

-Rich
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by bluefonia View Post
Yes, but thatīs a global action, - all other windows than Reaperīs will change color too.
Besides, - Iīm on mac and canīt change windowcolor globally - and neither do I want to.

You might have a look here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...72&postcount=1
The screenshots are not the best as they come from a 27" monitor at res. 2560*1440.
I`ve showed a white text and black background but itīs just an example
On Windows, in the item:windows colour palette, the bottom leftmost color default is a very light grey, just grey enough to lose the "bright white" but without really knocking anything else out of whack.

Looks lovely

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/7489/WhiteWindowsBegone.jpg
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:58 PM   #36
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Quote:
On Windows, in the item:windows colour palette, the bottom leftmost color default is a very light grey, just grey enough to lose the "bright white" but without really knocking anything else out of whack.

Looks lovely
Iīll give you it looks nice. Still I`m a mac user and this canīt be done.
Anyways, - Reaper ought to have this feature
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
as it makes Reaper feel cheap
hahaha let's remember... Reaper IS cheap!

and there's more than one way to skin a walter...

maybe it will happen
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:18 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
We mostly just wish to adjust the color scheme to the theme.
That's the easiest and a very big leap forward of making the
wheel rounder.

Some additional resize options (top bar, buttons etc) would
be a cherry on top.

[img]http://img507.**************/img507/6563/logicreaper.jpg[/img]

e
+1
How logical...
Make these eyeball searing white backgrounds WALTERable and be done with it!
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:13 AM   #39
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yeah... let's make EVERYTHING gray
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:25 PM   #40
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I am not usually that interested about aspects of the GUI that fall under the "skin" category. It is the workflow ultimately that matters to me. Pretty colors and pretty buttons prettily laid out can't help much if an application has deeper issues where lots of mouse clicks and browsing of menus and opening dialog boxes etc is needed to accomplish desired tasks.

However, in this issue I have to agree, because it affects productivity/mood psychologically. The large bright areas of the media bay etc have a very distracting visual contrast to the dark theme (pretty much the default) in Reaper that I use.

Regarding the programming effort aspect of it : It definitely is possible to do. Pretty much anything is possible in code, given enough time and effort. I don't think I ever looked up if the colors of the standard Windows list and tree controls is easy to change via the Win32 API calls or messages. I fear it won't be trivial or at least very easy and fast, as so often is the case with Win32 programming. Otherwise, I'd assume Cockos would have already allowed those colors to be customizable and/or be more in line with the general Reaper visual themes.
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