Old 09-12-2006, 12:16 PM   #1
manning1
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Default pretty please....drum tracks. revisited.

as ive mentioned many times....drum tracks are the biggest pita.
never seen another product do this....so here goes.
IT CANT BE THAT DIFFICULT TO DO.....programming wise.
I BADLY NEED THIS.and i know loads of others do.
1. i set a bpm of a song.
2. i click a button called >>>GIMME A DRUM TRACK<<<<
plus i tell rpr which samples to use from a library of wav samples.
3. rpr creates two AUDIO tracks.
one an audio track of drums following the bpm.
tother a drum fills track for me to play around with.
also in time to the bpm. then i can edit if i wish and move things around...ie..move fills where i want them etc.
4. if i hate it i click undo both tracks....and click gimme a drum track again....and a completely different drum track style is created once again.

the whole concept programming wise being based upon randomisation of samples used useing the bpm as a base.

as i said..the programming logic cant be that diff.
ie...roughly..
1. create wav hdr.
2. use a randomisation algo to pick which one of say 10 samples to write out to disc at the beat time point.
fill with zeros till next time point etc etc.
repeat logic etc etc.
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:24 PM   #2
randygo
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Check out Jamstix, it does most of what you want.

What you describe should not be a function of Reaper.

Cheers,

Randy
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Old 09-12-2006, 12:28 PM   #3
malcolmj
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Hi Manning,

I think what you're after is already addressed by dedicated drum programs like Jamstix and Stylus RMX (just to name two). It seems to me that there's been quite a bit of programming gone into both of those products. Have you tried using something like Jamstix?

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:43 PM   #4
manning1
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malcolm...
the thing is its just one more program to deal with.

frankly i'm getting so fed up with drum tracks (my bane/used to use studio drummers...but ret'd now so cant afford the fees etc.).....if rpr dont do it i might just go n' do a drum prog myself.
make a nice little winter programming project when the snows on the ground here in canada.
someone told me look at ez drummer..n' it sure looks perty.
but 160 buks.
i'm amazed no daw software has integrated this functionality.
i did a programming logic rough out this afternoon and its not that difficult. very simple user dialogue also.
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Old 09-12-2006, 02:55 PM   #5
randygo
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>if rpr dont do it i might just go n' do a drum prog myself.

Well, I demo'd Jamstix some time ago and quickly realized it was worth a lot more to me than the $99 price Rayzoon charges, so I bought it.

I would recommend you check out the demo.

If nothing else, it would provide you some good ideas for writing your own VSTi drummer.

Cheers,

Randy
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:09 PM   #6
malcolmj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1
i'm amazed no daw software has integrated this functionality.
It's probably because it's already been do so well by other programs. Yes, running Jamstix (or any other drum program) is another program to work with, but it seems a low overhead to me considering the time and effort that's gone into these things.

It's also a matter of personal preference. Jamstix is good, but I love Stylus RMX much more, and then sometimes I choose to use the drum machine and sampler in Reason, so there's no "one size fits all" solution. Whatever a DAW maker could come up with wouldn't satisfy all customers.

Personally I'd rather see development time and effort go into fixing the existing MIDI bugs and implementing MIDI learn (a feature that exists in most MIDI sequencers), before creating something that's already well serviced by other programs.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Old 09-12-2006, 04:53 PM   #7
alex zonder
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Probably not what you're looking for, manning, but these (standalone) drum sequencers do a rather good job:

http://www.threechords.com/hammerhead/hotstepper.shtml
The HotStepper's development has stopped, alas, but you can dowload the latest version at the dev's site: http://www.hotstepper.de/Hot203f.zip
Loads and saves .wav files. (no MIDI)

I made a screenshot:
http://stashbox.org/uploads/1158105073/HotStepper.png


http://tnikolai.nm.ru/drumflow.html
DrumFlow is really good MIDI drum sequencer; connect it to REAPER by means of a virtual midi cable. Features and screenshot here:
http://tnikolai.nm.ru/df-features.html

At least these 2 won't cost you a dime - but again, it's not exactly what you're dreaming of

Last edited by alex zonder; 09-12-2006 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 09-12-2006, 06:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manning1
as ive mentioned many times....drum tracks are the biggest pita.
never seen another product do this....so here goes.
IT CANT BE THAT DIFFICULT TO DO.....programming wise.
I BADLY NEED THIS.and i know loads of others do.
1. i set a bpm of a song.
2. i click a button called >>>GIMME A DRUM TRACK<<<<
plus i tell rpr which samples to use from a library of wav samples.
3. rpr creates two AUDIO tracks.
one an audio track of drums following the bpm.
tother a drum fills track for me to play around with.
also in time to the bpm. then i can edit if i wish and move things around...ie..move fills where i want them etc.
4. if i hate it i click undo both tracks....and click gimme a drum track again....and a completely different drum track style is created once again.

the whole concept programming wise being based upon randomisation of samples used useing the bpm as a base.

as i said..the programming logic cant be that diff.
ie...roughly..
1. create wav hdr.
2. use a randomisation algo to pick which one of say 10 samples to write out to disc at the beat time point.
fill with zeros till next time point etc etc.
repeat logic etc etc.

I would have to second this!

I think that if there were a drum pattern creation tool included in Reaper (nothing special; it can be plain like "session drummer" in Sonar), Reaper would be a much more inclusive package for most home-based studio musicians/producers. All session drummer really does is provide a very plain interface for gluing together MIDI drum patterns from a collection of them included in Sonar. For me, that's all that is needed. No fancy-schmancy interface, just a tool for creating drum patterns.

I have to say, that with the latest Sonar issue I'm dealing with, I'm getting much closer to using Sonar only as a MIDI sequencer ...turning my audio duties over to Reaper.

-mr moon
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Old 09-13-2006, 04:10 AM   #9
manning1
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alex....z
yeh ive had hotstepper for some time.
kudos to you for bringing it up.
pity it doesnt go far enough.
clever product.
malcolm...
i see your point and its fair ....but for example i went n' looked at rayzoon for example.
but its not "open". ie...its a bit like a golf club membership.
gotta pay for add on packs etc etc.
a lot of the drum progs are doing this marketing game.
mr moon.....
my strategy is the same as yours.
i have another great midi sequencer.
not sonar. and i have a pattern generator in it.
but i feel it would be simpler...what i outlined.
sorry....very frustrated.
i'm human .....lol

i dont want to get involved in vst stuff.....
(never liked the standard from a comp sci perspective....
yeh heresy...but just my opinion.)
so i think i'm just gonna do my own little proggie.
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Old 09-13-2006, 09:52 AM   #10
randygo
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>but its not "open". ie...its a bit like a golf club membership.
>gotta pay for add on packs etc etc.

That's not really true, you can load any drum samples into Jamstix. I think a lot of people use it with BFD for example.

You can't fault Rayzoon for selling some optional drum sample expansion packs. Which by the way, sound really good and are priced well!

Cheers,

Randy
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Old 09-13-2006, 10:26 AM   #11
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Oh and i wanīt a guitarplayer too. I canīt play guitar, so why canīt reaper do it for me.
And Btw, i need a singer too, yes i know i can plug in the yamaha singer, but i donīt like plugins.
And then if you please could include a songwriter too. I donīt have any musical experience, but come on guys, this is a computer.

Sorry, but how come drummers always are leveled down to a plugin.
And, i know this is good for song writing, so iīll better shut up
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Old 09-13-2006, 11:55 AM   #12
manning1
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olzzon...
nope dont want everything done for me.
just some intelligent drum track features/helper.
as drum tracks are very laborious to get right.
and i'm NOT putting down good drummers OR THEIR SKILLS.
(where i live in boondocks ret'd canada they just arent available. if i could find a nice one i would use him.)
randy...
didnt realise that about jamstix.
will check further. merci beaucoup.
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Old 09-13-2006, 12:25 PM   #13
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2 alternate suggestions ...

1) Native Instruments Battery ... fantastic drum programmer -- as in possibility of being very realistic, but you need to put the time in to learn their wonky interface ... a midi keyboard helps too.

2) Discrete Drums: A Top Notch drummer in a top notch room using top notch gear ... 16 or 24-bit WAV ... get the sony version for less than 30 bucks and it comes with a few tunes in various styles, acidized 1 shots and percussion loops. Hard to go wrong with that.

*Someone* around here made a good collection of one shots as well ... I lost the link though.
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Old 09-13-2006, 06:49 PM   #14
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Jamstix is too obfuscated; and it sounds like it's a little drunk.

What would be cool would be if the program (or feature) in question gave you 2-4 measure "previews" to hear, and you could just listen and choose one and it would splat it out where you've highlighted a loop.

Also, on the fly you could indicate if the snare, kick or hat needed to be pushed/pulled at a certain point - although they should snap to audio on certain beats "use 2/4 for timing, use beat 1, beat 3" etc... I think that's where Jamstix gets fouled up, but I'll have to try it again one day..
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:52 AM   #15
manning1
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chip.....
nice idea about preview.
ive been looking at a lot of drum helper progs.
a lot of them are nice....but so many features.
i just want something relatively simple.

if you live in a big city there are lots of drummers you can
bring into a studio.
but in the "boonies" its more difficult.

even if i just had a little dialog / feature in rpr that i clicked and it came back with a short sample wav pattern for me to save or discard would help. just a different random one each time. this way i could spend a day building up a library of "grooves" i liked for future use in songs.
or say click G (for groove) on the pc kbd and rpr generates the groove. for saveing/discarding and try a new groove by pressing G again. i'm rather tired of the laying out the midi drum track
approach as its so long winded. and feel a step could be saved. ie....create directly the sample wav track.
you could extend this concept further. for example the samples used could be bass wav notes for example or anything.
thus create a bass groove for example.
just some ideas.
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