Old 09-10-2006, 08:21 AM   #1
Art Evans
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Default Split at cursor and insert

to match the recent enhanced editing and deletion features. It should respect current ripple editing settings.

I'd personally map the insert key to that replacing its current function.
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Old 09-10-2006, 08:42 AM   #2
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hmm how about the current insert functions just split at the insert time if ripple is enabled? any reason not to do this?

Could do the same for drag&drop and paste as well.
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Old 09-10-2006, 09:28 AM   #3
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I didn't understand the meaning of the sentences (sorry), but if the question is indeed for requesting a "paste insert" feature, i do vote +1 + 1+ 1 !
(right-click the mouse, "paste insert" is accessible in the right-click mouse menu, whether ripple edit is on or off) ;
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Old 09-10-2006, 07:12 PM   #4
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There's actually rather more to this one than meets the eye...

The scenario I was thinking of was rather simple - say you are editing an item representing an entire speech recording. You'll mainly be deleting stuff, but you might want to move a sentence from here to there. So with ripple all tracks on (to maintain logical placement of your markers) you use the new ctrl/delete action to cut the relevant bit, then you go to where you want to insert it, and you click, press s, press ctrl/v, and the section will be inserted at the point you chose and material to the right will more later in time as ripple is on.

So really all I'm thinking is that to use the "insert" key (or logically, ctrl/insert to match ctrl/delete) would be the logical counterpart of ctrl/delete. It would simply in effect send "s" and "ctrl/v". Or should it be shift/s and ctrl/v?

I guess you could also do what I have in mind already by creating a region and moving it, though that can be a bit tricky if you are moving a small piece a long distance.

Trouble is, there are so many other insert scenarios. You might be working in multiple tracks inserting stuff cut from either one track or from many tracks. You might want to overlay the cut material on top of existing material, not wanting to split at all.

Anyone else care to try to set out precisely what they're thinking of in this area? I think precision of description with a practical example is necessary to avoid confustion (and I hope I've achieved that above - maybe not!).
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Old 09-10-2006, 11:44 PM   #5
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You´re actually touching one of the areas, i think should be looked into.
My scenario is to mark a bit of a bass line, copy it (ctrl-shift-v) and insert it where the bass is wrong. Right now when you do an insert, the clip is on top of the other. But not as a new take, the old part won´t be splitted. I´m sure someone has a reason for this behavior, but if you wan´t to crossfade the new clip with the old one, you have to mess a lot with it.
-----
Could the solution be, that an inserted clip will be a new take over the old one. And ofcause as inserted in time instead, if the ripple mode is on.
Would that behavior do it for you Art?
-----
perhaps on the ctrl-insert as you say, if the behavior of the ctrl-v is as wanted.
If the inserted clip is as a new take. It´s easier to adjust boundarys and crossfades after insert. IMO
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Old 09-11-2006, 04:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Could the solution be, that an inserted clip will be a new take over the old one. And of cause as inserted in time instead, if the ripple mode is on.
Would that behavior do it for you Art?
Sounds sensible... I think I'll need to experiment a bit more with existing behaviour to be entirely sure of the issues.
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:17 AM   #7
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I know that in Acid, you use [ctrl+T] to paste insert (i don't why this letter "T", BTW).
Very easy, quick.
But [insert] for paste insert seems the best to me.
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Old 09-11-2006, 09:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
hmm how about the current insert functions just split at the insert time if ripple is enabled? any reason not to do this?
Could do the same for drag&drop and paste as well.
This would work for me. +1

As I tried to describe a while back, I think it would be even better to have ripple as an available modifier to an edit command, rather than a mode buton.

eg: commands available from right-click menu or via hotkeys

Insert
Insert & Ripple
...
Delete
Delete & Ripple

... but I confess I haven't fully thought out all the ramifications regarding rippling all or rippling just the active track. Anyway, just another 2 cents worth.

Last edited by kenn; 09-11-2006 at 09:32 AM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:17 AM   #9
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All of the mix-paste functions in CEP's editor would be useful... Not just "cut/insert", but mix paste, mix overlap, mix (with options to blend start and end), etc...
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Old 09-11-2006, 10:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Could do the same for drag&drop and paste as well.
The coolest thing (I don't know if this is what you mean) would be to be able to select an area on a track, drag that out and drop it somewhere else - and have the dropped bit take precedence over what is underneath.

OR, have the additional mutable property of being able to select a mix level between the two...

Another major quibble is having to select the loop by dragging away from the dingbat wav itself! I thought one iteration of Reaper allowed you to create the loop by dragging ON the wav itself? Or has some switch been changed?
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Old 09-11-2006, 04:08 PM   #11
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Ways of creating a selection that I can think of:-

Ways that can be used on top of items or anywhere:

- Press { to set the in point at the current cursor position
- Press } to set the out point at the current cursor position
- Use shift/click to create a selection from the current cursor position to the point where you shift/clicked
- Lock the track items (full) and drag anywhere
- Drag on the edges of the selection to adjust even on top of items
- Double click on an item to set the selection to the item (or shift double click if prefs are set for double click to open in editor)
- ctrl/rightclick/drag

Ways that can only be used in blank space (incl the master track or below the tracks or the timeline)

Left-click drag.

In other words, only one method does not work on top of the items.

Last edited by Art Evans; 09-11-2006 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 09-11-2006, 04:52 PM   #12
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(Warning: Derail to marquee-select thread )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
...Ways that can only be used in blank space (incl the master track or below the tracks or the timeline)

Left-click drag.

In other words, only one method does not work on top of the items.
Yesss. Kind of pointless, then, to use Left-click drag as creating a time selection, innit? Might be more useful as, oh, I dunno... marquee select, maybe? Hmmm?
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Old 09-11-2006, 06:10 PM   #13
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All the above require keyboard intervention - except for left click drag. So what you propose would simply mean that those wanting to use left-click drag to create a marquee to avoid using the keyboard at all would transfer the need to use the keyboard to those wanting to make a selection. Not a good solution.

Not even IMHO.
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Old 09-11-2006, 08:17 PM   #14
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More derail (I'm trying to stop, honest! And I do want split at cursor and insert, too)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
All the above (time selections) require keyboard intervention - except for left click drag.
There's two non-keyboard options. You're forgetting click-drag from the top timescale area, which is always visible, and click-drag from below the last track, which is sometimes visible.

So if leftclick-drag was reassigned to marquee select, the above two mouse-only options would still exist.

The way I'm used to editing (and I still haven't put in the kind of hours you are on Reaper) I expect that I would be slightly more likely to be selecting and dragging segments around than setting time selections. That's just me, maybe. I notice that nTrack and Samplitude have click-drag marquee select in the track area.

Anyway, thanks for the discussion. Past my bedtime now. Cheers.
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