Old 05-22-2020, 04:41 AM   #1
jereo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Default Linking automation to clips

Is there any way to link automation to a clip, instead of to the track itself?

Say I have a MIDI track with a VST synth on it, and I create a one bar MIDI loop on that track. Then I automate a handful of synth parameters for that loop. If I drag the loop around, or copy it, the automation goes along with it. So far, so good. However, this "link" seems to break down when I do anything slightly more complex with the clip, such as: -

1) drag the clip out to lengthen it with loop mode on - the automation is not looped along with it

2) drag the clip out to timestretch it - the automation remains the same length

3) make several linked copies of the clip - change the MIDI notes in one and all the linked copies change - but change the automation and it only changes in that one copy

Are there any settings I could change, or extensions I could install, to make this work how I would expect? Or any workarounds that will get me close to the workflow I'm aiming for? Or am I just misunderstanding something fundamental about how all this is meant works?

It feels like what's really needed here is a way to create automation actually within a clip. The current behaviour feels a bit like a workaround for not having real "clip automation", which gets the job for basic use cases, but doesn't hold up for a lot of editing tasks.
jereo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 06:36 AM   #2
jereo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Default

Can anyone suggest a way I can approach solving this?

I'm so used to Reaper being able to handle anything I throw at it, I'm finding it frustrating that I can't think of a way around this one. Surely there must be something I could try?
jereo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 07:52 PM   #3
Win Conway
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,825
Default

What an a-hole reply.

My suggestion is to put your automation in to an automation item, then link that to the MIDI item, automation items are vastly superior to track based automation for editing.
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
Win Conway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2020, 09:40 PM   #4
valy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
What an a-hole reply.

My suggestion is to put your automation in to an automation item, then link that to the MIDI item, automation items are vastly superior to track based automation for editing.
Wow, just watched Kenny's video on automation items. Damn they are powerful. Thanks for that tip.
valy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 01:51 AM   #5
jereo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Default

Thank you gpunk, it's nice that someone replied with something a little more substantive than "why don't you think about this a bit harder?"

Automation Items are awesome, and I think I would have given up entirely if they weren't available! They still only get me 50% of the way towards the ideal workflow though. Certainly they will let me do the kind of things I listed, i.e. extend automation and have it loop, time stretch it, and make linked copies of it, which is great.

But I still have to create those items each time I make a new clip with automation, and then every time I loop, stretch or copy that clip, I have to repeat that action on the automation items. That can really break the flow, especially when there's three or four such items attached to each clip.

I have tried putting the automation item into a Group with its parent clip, but Reaper doesn't seem to consider an automation item to be something that's groupable. Maybe I'm just going about that the wrong way, or missing a setting somewhere? Being able to group these things would be an almost ideal solution.
jereo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 04:35 AM   #6
H3o
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
What an a-hole reply.

My suggestion is

Lol- it's not an a hole reply you mug...it's getting people to think for themselves instead of being dictated to by mugs like you.
Sheepy people,sleepy minds,make societies lazy and simply follow dictators like sheepy braindead zombies.
The idea of using a brain is a good 1 imo.
These users are not 3year old students,some are supposed to be adults with powerful brains,but apparently that seems to not be the case.
Give yourself a pat on the back for inserting your brain into somebody else's head.
Tough love mate,tough love..
Well done for helping them cheat the exams/tests of life.
Doh.
H3o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 04:36 AM   #7
H3o
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 7
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jereo View Post
Maybe I'm just going about that the wrong way, or missing a setting somewhere?

Maybe.. you may never know,until you do.
H3o is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 08:21 AM   #8
valy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jereo View Post
Thank you gpunk, it's nice that someone replied with something a little more substantive than "why don't you think about this a bit harder?"

Automation Items are awesome, and I think I would have given up entirely if they weren't available! They still only get me 50% of the way towards the ideal workflow though. Certainly they will let me do the kind of things I listed, i.e. extend automation and have it loop, time stretch it, and make linked copies of it, which is great.

But I still have to create those items each time I make a new clip with automation, and then every time I loop, stretch or copy that clip, I have to repeat that action on the automation items. That can really break the flow, especially when there's three or four such items attached to each clip.

I have tried putting the automation item into a Group with its parent clip, but Reaper doesn't seem to consider an automation item to be something that's groupable. Maybe I'm just going about that the wrong way, or missing a setting somewhere? Being able to group these things would be an almost ideal solution.
Perhaps I'm not understand what you are trying to do, but I recommend watching this video:

https://youtu.be/_eLjFKgv4bg

Kenny shows how you can pool automation items so that they are "grouped," i.e., changes to one are made to all. Plus, there's a setting to automatically create automation items I believe. Check it out.
valy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 08:52 AM   #9
jereo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Default

Thanks valy, I've seen that video, it's a fantastic overview of how automation items work, but perhaps I'll give it another watch and see if there's something I've missed.

My problem in a nutshell is that I can't link automation items to the clip they're automating. I'd expect a similar workflow to how I can link two clips together, so that they're always the same length, they loop together, and so on.

So I can drag a one-bar clip out so it repeats 8 times over 8 bars, but then for every related automation item I have to repeat that process. It's great that automation items exist so I can do that at all, but the workflow would be so much smoother if everything could be linked together, so I only need to drag the parent clip out once.
jereo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 10:37 AM   #10
valy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
Default

I understand now. This seems like an oversight.

If "Options > Envelope points > Move envelope points with media items" is turned on, the automation item is properly duplicated when the item is duplicated. But dragging the edge of the media item does not loop the automation item too, even when looping is turned on for both the media and automation items.
valy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 10:38 AM   #11
valy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
Default

As a workaround, I suppose you could use Ctrl-D to make duplicates instead of dragging the edge of items to loop them. Might be faster in some cases.
valy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 10:56 AM   #12
jereo
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 8
Default

That's a useful workaround, thank you. I do wish there was some way to link these together though, as I love being able to drag items out to loop them - it's such a time saver when you're messing around with a long composition.

But this gets me 90% of the way to what I need, even if it's not quite as smooth as I'd like. Thanks for all your help!
jereo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 11:35 AM   #13
valy
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,927
Default

No problem -- maybe submit a feature request and/or a bug report about this. I'm not sure which applies here, to be honest.
valy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.