Home Recording Setup - What is realistic?

[Khepf]

Just a few questions:


My basic setup is:

Preamp - UA 710 TwinFinity
Decent Rode Mic
Focusrite Scarlett 2i4
DAW - Reaper
Computer - Laptop - i7 64 bit, 4GB RAM

I would like:

1. Two devices + MIDI simultaniously armed, levels set, ready to record.
2. To seperately control recording level and playback level, and hear them both (not one or the other) with no delay on either.

Is this possible with my setup? If not, what else do I need, and if so, where might I check my config for delay issues?

Speaking of delay...

In regard to latancy with MIDI, regular I/O, and recording/playback monitoring in general, what can I reasonably expect? Can the near-zero latancy that you get when you plug into an analog recording device be matched at the digital level with DAWs? Can my setup match it, and if not, what should I add to get there?

[The Buddha Rats]

I think you would be able to achieve your ideal setup with your existing equipment. I'm not crazy about laptops, but I'm running an i7 (Sandybridge) 64 bit tower with 4GB RAM. I'm able to trigger vst drums, pianos, etc. with no noticeable latency using an Echo Firewire box.

Hope this helps.

[hopi]

you will just have to test the latency of your system and interface and see what you get... and hear if it is acceptable for your needs...

[Swede]

I'm a hobbyist and I record some stuff just for fun. One man band kind of stuff. I have a Focusrite Saffire 6 with 2 in and 4 out. My recording computer is a Thinkpad with an i5 and only 4GB of RAM. For what I do I have absolutely no problems with anything I've done so far. The computer is not even getting warmed up. No latency problems that is bothering me. No need to load up Reaper on my gaming rig.

Now I could double the RAM and buy an SSD but it will not make much of a difference to my recording needs. The laptop would be nicer of course. I don't think my guitar playing will improve much if I trade my LP Studio for a Custom other than I would need to sleep with one eye open since my wife would become homicidal.

My advice is stick with what you have to start and then add and upgrade when needed.

[Bristol Posse]

Only way to know if the latency is OK or not is to try and see.

As to analog vs digital performance, digital is never going to be almost zero latency (nano seconds) like analog. If you are recording and need to monitor from the DAW there is always going to be latency. it'l be worse if you need to monitor with VST FX. Generally the more complex/heavy CPU cycle the VST needs, the more latency there will be added

You have an A/D conversion
Whatever VST plug in FX processing chain latency
And then a D/A conversion back to the monitor mix

Personally I always found this horrible even with a good computer setup for monitoring as I record and stopped using REAPERs motioring

If you don't need to monitor FX from the DAW. many interfaces will let you take a zero latency feed off the analog in. You can't monitor the DAW with this but you can monitor the track you are working on at that time with no latency. Of course if you are using a MIDI instrument and the sounds bank is hosted in the DAW you are back to rountrip plus VST plug in latency again

[planetnine]

I'm with BP here. I use a voice channel/preamp which allows me to monitor the recorded input before it leaves the unit and goes into the DAW.

Very usefully, I can actually mix a stereo accompaniment with the input, and also add a reverb (or other effect chain) to the input (without it being recorded) in this voice channel, which allows most single inputs to be monitored latency-free during recording without needing the use of a mixing console.

Many multi-input audio interfaces allow zero-latency monitoring internally via a "monitoring manager" program also. This circumvents the latency issue entirely.



>

[serr]

For passing audio signals (ie. sound recorded with a microphone), Reaper is the most stable DAW I've ever used running at "real time" low latency (which for me is 11ms or less total round-trip latency.) 11ms is the threshold for perception of a delay. Total round-trip means: analog input > AD converters in interface > computer/Reaper > DA converters in interface > analog output.

Note that the latency number reported by Reaper at the top of the screen is ONLY the latency added by Reaper and NOT total system latency! (It's usually about a third of the total.) This leads to a lot of confusing statements posted like "11ms is perceptible to me and not good enough" when someone is actually experiencing well over 30ms.


As mentioned above, see what your system can do. A SSD for OS/apps/'high performance audio space' is required to run at the lowest latencies.

I run live sound with Reaper while recording multitrack. 11ms total latency is actually easy to achieve and even with quite a lot of plugins running.

Also as mentioned, it is SOP in a studio setting to use the cuemix/monitor in one's interface for input monitoring and not even attempt to burden your system running at low latency.



On the audio side, you can easily achieve "real time" latency. I can even use Reaper as my guitar rig with no performance issues adding amp sims and loopers.


Then we get to MIDI instruments using vsti plugins for the sound module.
I'm guessing this is where the problem is right?
You're just going to have to find a vsti plugin with the sounds you need that can handle low latency.

Dial your system in initially with audio and see what you can get away with. Then you can determine if your latency issue for MIDI is a particular vsti plugin that just needs more buffer time.

I don't think you'll find a more stable DAW at the lowest latency that Reaper at any rate.

[Geoff Waddington]

Originally Posted by serr

For passing audio signals (ie. sound recorded with a microphone), Reaper is the most stable DAW I've ever used running at "real time" low latency (which for me is 11ms or less total round-trip latency.) 11ms is the threshold for perception of a delay. Total round-trip means: analog input > AD converters in interface > computer/Reaper > DA converters in interface > analog output.

Note that the latency number reported by Reaper at the top of the screen is ONLY the latency added by Reaper and NOT total system latency! (It's usually about a third of the total.) This leads to a lot of confusing statements posted like "11ms is perceptible to me and not good enough" when someone is actually experiencing well over 30ms.

We've been down this road before.

Some people are bothered by 11 ms total round trip latency, others not at all.

As others have said, you must try it out and see what's appropriate for you.

In general it sounds like you should be fine with the listed equipment, but only you can know that.

[partonkevin]

Originally Posted by serr

Note that the latency number reported by Reaper at the top of the screen is ONLY the latency added by Reaper and NOT total system latency! (It's usually about a third of the total.) This leads to a lot of confusing statements posted like "11ms is perceptible to me and not good enough" when someone is actually experiencing well over 30ms.

This is good info to know!

I have a cheaper interface but it lets me monitor my live input and mix it with recorded playback. This makes it easy to record one track at a time and not really deal with latency.

I actually eliminate latency with my setup by taking Reaper out of the equation. I have just been using Reaper as a "tape machine" for the recording. I've been splitting my inputs. I send a direct signal to my interface and a transformer split to my old PA mixing board and I build my headphone mixes there. I've got the extra stuff laying around and I'm more comfortable using knobs verses a mouse.

[Fergler]

The standard way to do what you want is to have an analog board with equal outs (such as 8 XLR / 1/4" in, 8 XLR out + other stereo summed outs) where you monitor while recording from. Get one with some effects built in if you want to track with some reverb in monitors for e.g.

Then you send the XLR outs from the analog via a snake of cables to the input box where you record at highest latency for the most consistent and high quality recording of the analog. You don't monitor this at all so the latency is no issue.