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Old 05-17-2018, 04:13 AM   #1
enroe
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Default timebase ---> ruler display in 16ths

In the project settings you can choose the timebase for
all events in reaper. Let's have a look at the "music-formats"
of the timebase. These are

--- Beats (position, length, rate)
or
--- Beats (position only)

The finest solution is "Beats (position, length, rate)". In this
case every beat is shown as: "m.b.tt", where we have:

--- m = measure
--- b = beat (4ths of a measure), range 1-4
--- t = ticks, range 00 - 99

Imagine a drummer playing 16ths hihat. Then it will
look like this:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
m.b.tt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.1.00 start of measure, first note
1.1.25 second note, a 16th
1.1.50 third 16th
1.1.75 fourth 16th
1.2.00 fifth 16th
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here it is difficult to identify the 16ths positions at
first glance. The numbers 25, 50, ... are not intuitive!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
My suggestion
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

My suggestion is the format "m.b.s.ttt" with:

--- m = measure
--- b = beat (4ths of a measure) 1-4
--- s = 16th - 4 in every beat: 1-4
--- t = ticks, 000 - 120

Now let's go to our drummer playing 16ths hihat
again. Now we would see in our piano-roll editor:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
m.b.s.ttt
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.1.1.000 start of measure, first note
1.1.2.000 second note, a 16th
1.1.3.000 third 16th
1.1.4.000 fourth 16th
1.2.1.000 fifth 16th
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Importent: It's not only the list editor. No! The time
format applies to the ruler of the arrange-window and
the ruler of the piano roll editor.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is there a workaround in Reaper?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

We can switch to "beats only". So only the beats
(4th notes) will be displayed. Nothing disturbes the
eye.

But the "beats only"-view lacks ruler info if
we are fine-editing. Think of moving 16ths notes
around ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advantages
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

The time format "m.b.s.ttt" is more intuitive. You can
see at first glance where the 16ths or the 8ths are.
Also in triolic rhythms: You can see at first glance where
the 12ths or 24ths are. (For triolic rhythms you have
chosen the appropriate Grid-setting - and the format
setting "m.b.s.ttt" follows this setting exactly).

Whether you work in the arrange-window or the
piano roll editor: The ruler is much more informative,
because it shows the 8ths and 16ths directly!

(If I didn't oversee something or SWS-extensions do
this already or somebody has a better suggestion ... )
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:55 AM   #2
EvilDragon
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I don't know why any drummer would look at list view (or ruler) and try to play 16th notes, heh. AFAIK drummers count either in quarternotes or eighth notes depending on time signature. If it's a x/16 timesig, they break it up into larger portions with a few small ones (example 15/16 would be ONE and TWO and THREE and a uhm).

List view is supposed to follow how time is divided in MIDI standard, which doesn't have any special subdivision for 16th notes. So this probably won't happen.


Also I would argue that numbers 0, 25, 50, 75 are absolutely intuitive, since they are percentages of a beat. It's actually more intuitive than standard MIDI timing that has 960 ticks per quarternote, so your 16th note is 240 then.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:30 AM   #3
enroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I don't know why any drummer would look at list view (or ruler) and try to play 16th notes, heh. AFAIK drummers count either in quarternotes or eighth notes depending on time signature. If it's a x/16 timesig, they break it up into larger portions with a few small ones (example 15/16 would be ONE and TWO and THREE and a uhm).
Haha, it's only an example to think about it. AFAIK
drummers never edit what they played afterwards ...
Here it's about editing midi in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Also I would argue that numbers 0, 25, 50, 75 are absolutely intuitive, since they are percentages of a beat. It's actually more intuitive than standard MIDI timing that has 960 ticks per quarternote, so your 16th note is 240 then.
I see. Maybe you're very accustomed to these
numbers in all your reaper years?

Still in my valuation the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4
are very much more intuitive.

And I believe: An implementation of this type
of "beat scale" is not such a big effort (but
maybe I'm very wrong here).
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Old 05-17-2018, 07:26 AM   #4
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Actually no, other DAWs have it pretty much the same like Reaper does, and never had any problems. None of those DAWs have a special subdivision for 16th notes either. So it really probably won't happen in Reaper, either. You'll get used to it
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Old 05-17-2018, 03:19 PM   #5
enroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
... other DAWs have it pretty much the same like Reaper does, and ...
Oooops, where did you get your information from?

I guess it's exactly the other way around: Every DAW
has the 16ths-format "m.b.s.ttt" - only Reaper has its own
peculiar strange format.

At least all the DAWs I worked with in my life (Emagic Creator,
Emagic Notator, Emagic Logic, Apple Logic, Steinberg Cubase) have
the format "m.b.s.ttt". And I suppose all other have this
format also. Only Reaper not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
... and never had any problems.
Yes, there are no real "problems", it's possible to work in
this peculiar format. It's more a question of fast perception
and of ergonomics.

----------------------------------------------------------------

PS: In all this I do not mean the grid. The grid is dependent
on the grid-setting and the zoom factor. But this is all about
the display of the cursor position, display of the item position
or the ruler when zoomed to detail.
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Old 05-17-2018, 09:06 PM   #6
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I certainly didn't see that format in FL Studio, Live, Sonar, etc.
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:34 AM   #7
enroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I certainly didn't see that format in FL Studio, Live, Sonar, etc.
Interesting to know, thank you!

--------------------------------------------------------------------

For a better perception here's the time-format of reaper
(and those DAWs quoted by EvelDragon):



And here the 16-ths time-format (like it is
in Notator, Cubase, Logic, ...):
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Old 05-19-2018, 06:57 AM   #8
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+1, more musical intuitive to me too
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Old 05-20-2018, 09:53 AM   #9
Masi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe View Post
For a better perception here's the time-format of reaper
(and those DAWs quoted by EvelDragon)
Interesting that beats (probably synonymous here with eigths) are divided directly into sixteenths.

Anyway, much more cemprehensible than ticks. What are the anyway?

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Old 05-20-2018, 12:23 PM   #10
enroe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masi View Post
Interesting that beats (probably synonymous here with eigths) are divided directly into sixteenths.
Beats are the fourth! --> Every Beat has 2 eighths
or 4 sixteenths.

But yes: Beats are directly diveded into
sixteenths.
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Old 03-13-2021, 02:17 AM   #11
enroe
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This is just a tiny bit, but it would still make your work a
lot easier.

Because every time I switch to Reaper, I notice that counting
the eighths or sixteenths is somehow "wrong". Let's just take
eighths: In Cubase (or any other DAW) the first four eighths
are:

Cubase:

1.1.1
1.1.3
1.2.1
1.2.3


And now we're looking at the same thing in Reaper:

Reaper:

1.1.0
1.1.50
1.2.0
1.2.50


How nice would it be if you added an additional "digit" for
counting .... It's about not just having a technical way of
counting, but a musical one.
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