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Old 05-15-2022, 04:24 AM   #1
for
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Default Confusion as to what volume

so lets say my first track is bass

i set it to peak at -18db

i sometimes get confused when to raise my computer audio to hear things better or raise the reaper mixing faders instead

any advice on this
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Old 05-15-2022, 04:48 AM   #2
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so lets say my first track is bass

i set it to peak at -18db

i sometimes get confused when to raise my computer audio to hear things better or raise the reaper mixing faders instead

any advice on this
So first things first -- there's no RIGHT answer to this. You should do what works for you!

However, it's worth considering a few things. In simplistic terms, chances are that sometimes you're using Reaper for composing / recording / sound design, and sometimes you're using Reaper for mixing.

If you're using Reaper during a composing / recording or sound design phase of your workflow, I would say it genuinely doesn't matter (although try not to record things too loud -- you don't want nasty distortions). Just set things so you can hear them as you need to preferably without (too much) clipping (a bit is OK, since that happens when you're auditioning synths or whatever).

Once you're in the mixing phase, headroom is king! At that point, I would keep all your faders a bit lower and make your speakers loud enough for you to hear. Then you can mix leaving plenty of headroom, rein in some of those clips with some compression (which will commonly help with quieter sounds anyway), and take it from there.

I've tried to keep that short and simple. It's a rule of thumb only -- there are never hard and fast rules. The beauty of Reaper is that you can do things lots of different ways -- whatever works for you. But hopefully my advice will set you off in a useful direction. By all means ask other questions if you have them, of course, if you need more detail.
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Old 05-15-2022, 05:51 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by SiddieNam View Post
So first things first -- there's no RIGHT answer to this. You should do what works for you!

However, it's worth considering a few things. In simplistic terms, chances are that sometimes you're using Reaper for composing / recording / sound design, and sometimes you're using Reaper for mixing.

If you're using Reaper during a composing / recording or sound design phase of your workflow, I would say it genuinely doesn't matter (although try not to record things too loud -- you don't want nasty distortions). Just set things so you can hear them as you need to preferably without (too much) clipping (a bit is OK, since that happens when you're auditioning synths or whatever).

Once you're in the mixing phase, headroom is king! At that point, I would keep all your faders a bit lower and make your speakers loud enough for you to hear. Then you can mix leaving plenty of headroom, rein in some of those clips with some compression (which will commonly help with quieter sounds anyway), and take it from there.

I've tried to keep that short and simple. It's a rule of thumb only -- there are never hard and fast rules. The beauty of Reaper is that you can do things lots of different ways -- whatever works for you. But hopefully my advice will set you off in a useful direction. By all means ask other questions if you have them, of course, if you need more detail.

yes thats the issue i sometimes left with no headroom because I raise the mixing faders instead of my computer volume....this is something i should pay closer attention to i guess

thanks for your help!
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Old 05-15-2022, 06:02 AM   #4
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yes thats the issue i sometimes left with no headroom because I raise the mixing faders instead of my computer volume....this is something i should pay closer attention to i guess

thanks for your help!
It's totally normal to have your mixing volume way lower than anything on Youtube, etc...

What I do is I put a volume plug-in on my master. NOT a compressor or anything that will alter the sound. Just a simple JS Volume plug and turn it up.

I do this because, too many times, I've forgotten that I have my speakers turned up, I go watch something on Youtube after or while mixing, and it almost blows me out of my chair.

So now, even when I'm mixing, my volume is close to anything else I'd play through my computer, while retaining all the headroom I need.
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Old 05-15-2022, 08:25 AM   #5
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There is no "automatic" calibration between digital dB levels (dBFS) and acoustic loudness (dB SPL). There is a direct correlation... A 3dB reduction in the digital level (more negative) makes a 3dB reduction in SPL level (assuming you don't touch the volume control or move your listening position, etc.).

Bob Katz recommends monitoring at 83dB SPL (or maybe it's 86dB). But, you can do lots of "work" at lower levels and you may want to crank it up when listening for little details or little defects.

Digital levels are not critical as long as you avoid clipping. You do loose digital resolution as you go lower... Each bit represents 6dB so at -18dB you are leaving 3-bits unused. That's no big deal at 24-bits but at 16-bits you wouldn't want to go much lower. (When you are recording from analog the true-usable resolution is limited by analog noise.)

Nothing bad happens when you get "close" to 0dB, only if you "try" to go over. You don't really need 18dB of headroom. Headroom is a funny thing... If you don't use it, you didn't need it. And if you do use it, it's no longer headroom!

Of course, REAPER uses floating-point internally so REAPER itself won't clip and for all practical purposes there is no upper or lower limit. So after recording you can adjust the levels up or down (anywhere in the chain). You just have to watch-out for clipping your DAC (which will mess-up what you're hearing without actually damaging your digital mix).

Mixing is done by summation so you can't mix two tracks that peak at 0dB without adjusting-down the levels before or after mixing, while you're still in floating-point.

...You just have to be careful of clipping your ADC (recording) or your DAC (playback), and "regular" WAV files and CDs are also hard-limited to 0dB.

Last edited by DVDdoug; 05-15-2022 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 05-18-2022, 06:26 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Frank Lee Scarlett View Post
It's totally normal to have your mixing volume way lower than anything on Youtube, etc...

What I do is I put a volume plug-in on my master. NOT a compressor or anything that will alter the sound. Just a simple JS Volume plug and turn it up.

I do this because, too many times, I've forgotten that I have my speakers turned up, I go watch something on Youtube after or while mixing, and it almost blows me out of my chair.

So now, even when I'm mixing, my volume is close to anything else I'd play through my computer, while retaining all the headroom I need.
Hey Frank, I need "a simple JS Volume plug"! Any recommendations? Where can I get?

Thanks... Bruce
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Old 05-18-2022, 07:01 AM   #7
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Hey Frank, I need "a simple JS Volume plug"! Any recommendations? Where can I get?

Thanks... Bruce
Hey brother. I just use the stock "JS: Stereo Channel Volume/Pan/Polarity".

Pretty sure everyone has one. Good luck.
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Old 05-18-2022, 07:30 AM   #8
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There's JS:Volume Adjustment too FYI.
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Old 05-18-2022, 07:45 AM   #9
Frank Lee Scarlett
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There's JS:Volume Adjustment too FYI.
Oh, there you go. Didn't see that one. Even simpler. Thanx Karbohydrate.

Just to add...On the one I was talking about, the slider only takes it up to 10. But you can numerically enter any volume you need. I enter 18 and it pretty much takes me to the same volume as a "smashtered" mix.
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Old 05-18-2022, 07:55 AM   #10
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You could also put that volume adjuster on the Monitoring FX instead of your master.
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Old 05-18-2022, 09:19 AM   #11
Frank Lee Scarlett
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You could also put that volume adjuster on the Monitoring FX instead of your master.
I have a feeling this might be the stupidest question you'll read today. But, where do I find the "Monitor effects"? I though it would be at the bottom of the master track, but there's nothing there.
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Old 05-18-2022, 10:40 AM   #12
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I have a feeling this might be the stupidest question you'll read today. But, where do I find the "Monitor effects"? I though it would be at the bottom of the master track, but there's nothing there.
Go to the View menu and you'll find it. It's hidden by default.

This is where, for example, you'd put a room EQ if you have to EQ your monitors to your room (e.g., if you used Sonarworks to generate a room EQ for your monitors). You wouldn't want that room EQ on your master track because it would get printed when you render your mix unless you remember to disable it first. And me, I know I would forget to disable it. Same goes for a volume control: putting that on the Monitoring FX means you don't have to remember to disable it when you render your project.

What I like is that once you add an FX to the Monitoring Effects, it'll show up in the top right of your Reaper window as a little green box with an on-off switch so you can quickly access it to tweak settings or just as quickly disable it.
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Old 05-18-2022, 10:43 AM   #13
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Go to the View menu and you'll find it. It's hidden by default.

This is where, for example, you'd put a room EQ if you have to EQ your monitors to your room (e.g., if you used Sonarworks to generate a room EQ for your monitors). You wouldn't want that room EQ on your master track because it would get printed when you render your mix unless you remember to disable it first. And me, I know I would forget to disable it. Same goes for a volume control: putting that on the Monitoring FX means you don't have to remember to disable it when you render your project.

What I like is that once you add an FX to the Monitoring Effects, it'll show up in the top right of your Reaper window as a little green box with an on-off switch so you can quickly access it to tweak settings or just as quickly disable it.
Awesome! Got it. Thanx a lot.
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Old 05-18-2022, 11:30 AM   #14
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@for

DVDdoug pointed to the right direction.
It is really good idea to calibrate your monitors\headphones the way your hearing is suited to sound levels.

I do it as a preliminary setup with pink noise... and imagine am near a waterfall. Good also for calibrating the tilt of your EQs (Voxengo SPAN and ReaEQ; whatever have you... anything of 3dB to 4.5dB per "octave" is fine).

How powerful are your loudspeakers (and its power-amp)?

First see its self noise (the loudspeakers and power-amp) level by pumping the master power level up. When you start to hear it, that would be the upper limit (it might result in anything from 80 to 110dB when blasting a modern pop-rock song, depends how powerful\noisy the setup is). But if no audio is loaded and you start to hear self-noise... it is way too loud.

For headphones is a bit difficult to "measure" so...

Try the pink noise (for both speakers and headphones) at RMS ≈-18dBFS (peaks will be 6~9dB higher) and turn the power-amp volume up till you can imagine a nice waterfall in front of you, fairly pleasant to listen to. Say something out loud and if you can hear both your voice and the "waterfall" clearly without the need to be shouting, then you are good enough.

Double that sound level (-12dBFS RMS) would be the modern loud masters you would hear on album CDs (post 2000), EDM, pop-rock, etc.

Comfort of sound level for a few hours mixing is your goal. If your mixes hover around -21dBFS RMS to -15dBFS RMS, everything is fine and crank the power-amp volume till pleasant and you can still stand the "waterfall" and can talk without the need to shout.

I find on my output to be about 50% up the power-amp volume.
But that would depend on impedance of headphones\speakers.
My headphones are 80Ω, speakers 4Ω~8Ω (reference devices range as well).

You would sit about 1~1.5 up to 2m from speakers so try not to crank the power amp value.

Windows or whatever OS volume should be at 100 though.
The final power-amp should not be below 50% though.

Some recommend power-amp at 100% but I think that is more for live concerts.

Comfort, good thing in digital domain is that volume is 99.9% linear, so not a big deal, as long as the final volume is comfortable as described.

Last edited by Pashkuli; 05-19-2022 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 05-18-2022, 11:42 AM   #15
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I think ideally you’d set your speakers so that a decent mix peaking at 0dbFS is just a little too loud at your ears. This you kind of just naturally avoid clipping without having to look at meters or even think about it much.

I have a dedicated 1000W powered PA speaker for the times I need to be really loud for guitar feedback or whatever reasons.
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