Old 05-10-2022, 01:22 PM   #1
MinisterD
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Default EQ for hihat?

Can anybody recommend a good ReaEQ curve for hihat miked with a small-diaphragm condenser?
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Old 05-10-2022, 02:35 PM   #2
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Which role does the hihat play for the song? How much hihat is in the overhead(s), how much in the snare mic, and how does the bleed sound?
Impossible to answer.
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Old 05-10-2022, 07:36 PM   #3
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Doesn't really work like that, but I'd probably use a highpass on hihat and roll it up to where the sound starts to change and then back off a bit.

If you're thinking there's a "right way" to go about mixing anything, you're already going about it the wrong way. Experiment and use your ears.
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Old 05-10-2022, 08:45 PM   #4
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I'd mute the sucker!
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Old 05-10-2022, 09:06 PM   #5
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I'd probably use a highpass on hihat and roll it up to where the sound starts to change and then back off a bit.
I don't currently use a dedicated hihat mic, but that's the approach I'd take. I use a remote cable hihat, and it is always too loud in the mix, so I cut off three corners from a plastic Tupperware type box, and made hihat shields for my snare and tom mics.
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Old 05-10-2022, 09:52 PM   #6
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I use a remote cable hihat, and it is always too loud in the mix,
Did you move the hat because of the problem? I've never seen it set up like that. I try to point the mics 180 degrees away from the hat, which does help. Steve Albini recommends a big set of "janitor keys" inside the hat.
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:00 AM   #7
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Did you move the hat because of the problem? I've never seen it set up like that.
I've got two hihats on my kit. A 14" pair of Zildjian New Beats on a standard hihat on the the left (sitting at the kit), and a smaller pair of 12" Zildjian Special Recording hihats on the right, in front of the floor tom.

https://sclkssl.ssl.hwcdn.net/05/img...205_811443.jpg

I generally use the 12" Special Recording hihats because they are quicker with more articulation (think Stewart Copeland), but because they are nearer to the snare, rack toms, and floor tom, I needed to put little plastic shields on the Sennheiser E604 mics.

Quote:
I try to point the mics 180 degrees away from the hat, which does help. Steve Albini recommends a big set of "janitor keys" inside the hat.
They actually make mic shields to keep hihats and cymbals out of other drum mics.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...tic-crashguard

They are too expensive for what they are though IMHO. Cut the corner off of a Tupperware type box and tape it to the mic works real well for me. The first song on my music page is the first recording I've done since putting those shields on the drum mics. Compared with the third and fourth songs (second one is digital drums) there is none of the clacky sound I was getting before.
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:11 AM   #8
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if you have hats in the snare mic/OH then a good old trick was to use the API 560 graphic and cut all frequencies to -12db except the 16k one , which you boost fully then just blend it in to taste.

Sounds awful soloed but when you blend it in it adds a nice sheen to the hi hat.


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Old 05-11-2022, 08:17 AM   #9
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I'd mute the sucker!
Yeah, it's usually forcefully present in the main overheads. Who needs a spot mic on the hat?!

(I'll still put one up often enough. Sometimes I even use it!)
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
if you have hats in the snare mic/OH then a good old trick was to use the API 560 graphic and cut all frequencies to -12db except the 16k one , which you boost fully then just blend it in to taste.

Sounds awful soloed but when you blend it in it adds a nice sheen to the hi hat.
Is this as a parallel feed from those mics? IOW, if I EQ'd my floor tom mic (the closest one to my remote hihat) as you suggest, it would no longer be a positive reinforcement for the floor tom.

If OTOH I were to duplicate that track and EQ it separately for the hihat, the original track would still do its job of reinforcing the floor tom in the mix.
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Old 05-11-2022, 08:22 AM   #11
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I once mic'd my hi-hats.

Once.
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Old 05-11-2022, 09:05 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Is this as a parallel feed from those mics? IOW, if I EQ'd my floor tom mic (the closest one to my remote hihat) as you suggest, it would no longer be a positive reinforcement for the floor tom.

If OTOH I were to duplicate that track and EQ it separately for the hihat, the original track would still do its job of reinforcing the floor tom in the mix.
nope the actual hi hat track/mic.

the meat and potatoes of the hi hat will be in the oH/snare this adds a little crispness when you blend it in.

try it


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Old 05-11-2022, 09:16 AM   #13
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nope the actual hi hat track/mic.

the meat and potatoes of the hi hat will be in the oH/snare this adds a little crispness when you blend it in.

try it
Ah, well as I mentioned in my first post, I don't currently use a dedicated hihat mic, although now that I have tamed it in my snare, toms, and floor tom mics using plastic shields, I might consider setting one up in the future.
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Old 05-11-2022, 03:15 PM   #14
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Ah, well as I mentioned in my first post, I don't currently use a dedicated hihat mic, although now that I have tamed it in my snare, toms, and floor tom mics using plastic shields, I might consider setting one up in the future.
Yea me neither actually. I have the same issue of never needing more hihat in the mix. I was wrapping mics in acoustic foam, but the bulk makes placement more limited. Maybe I'll try the plastic thing.

I also wonder if using a hihat mic and then switching polarity to thin it out would be worthwhile.
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Old 05-11-2022, 04:02 PM   #15
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I stopped worrying about hi-hat bleed in the snare mic a long time ago. It's no big deal if you place your snare mic properly. A little bit of bleed is fine. It's a drum "SET". Maybe that's why micing my hi-hat lasted exactly one song. It wasn't needed at all. I get all I need from my overheads and the little bit of bleed into the snare mic. Let it bleed, baby.

I'm more concerned with my toms ringing when I'm not playing them, which is why I delete everything on my tom tracks except for when I'm actually hitting them.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:17 AM   #16
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Quite a wealth of information! Thanks, everybody.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:33 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Yea me neither actually. I have the same issue of never needing more hihat in the mix. I was wrapping mics in acoustic foam, but the bulk makes placement more limited. Maybe I'll try the plastic thing.

I also wonder if using a hihat mic and then switching polarity to thin it out would be worthwhile.
Phase cancellation is an interesting idea. Here's a closeup of the plastic box corner on my floor tom mic. It really does get that hihat, and ride cymbal out of the mic. Doesn't look as nice as the $40 mic shields, but works really well on all the tom and snare mics.
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Old 05-12-2022, 08:33 AM   #18
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Can anybody recommend a good ReaEQ curve for hihat miked with a small-diaphragm condenser?
What's the issue with the hat in your drum mix?

Someone might have a solution if you share what the specific issue is.
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Old 05-12-2022, 10:06 AM   #19
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I don't currently use a dedicated hihat mic, but that's the approach I'd take. I use a remote cable hihat, and it is always too loud in the mix, so I cut off three corners from a plastic Tupperware type box, and made hihat shields for my snare and tom mics.
I use an old plastic Mustard jar with some foam inside to hopefully reduce any ringing. Still pick up a lot of hat though it does help some. Yeah, way too much hat
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Old 05-12-2022, 11:10 AM   #20
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I use an old plastic Mustard jar with some foam inside to hopefully reduce any ringing. Still pick up a lot of hat though it does help some. Yeah, way too much hat
Even though I gate my snare and toms, when the gate is open, way too much hihat was getting through. My most recent song is the first one I've done since making up the shields, and before I added tambourine, the hihat was finally not sounding clacky and too loud.

I imagine that a small plastic mustard jar would make a pretty good 360 degree shield.
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Old 05-12-2022, 12:52 PM   #21
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I'm more concerned with my toms ringing when I'm not playing them, which is why I delete everything on my tom tracks except for when I'm actually hitting them.
Ever tried the Big Fat Snare thing? It sounds more natural to my ears than your typical o-ring, but they smooth out the resonance and lower the pitch significantly, so you can get deeper tones with tighter heads and no unwanted ringing.

Bought one for snare, but they sound great on toms too.
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Old 05-12-2022, 01:01 PM   #22
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Ever tried the Big Fat Snare thing? It sounds more natural to my ears than your typical o-ring, but they smooth out the resonance and lower the pitch significantly, so you can get deeper tones with tighter heads and no unwanted ringing.

Bought one for snare, but they sound great on toms too.
Oh wow! That looks really cool. I think I once saw it at a music store but didn't stop to check it out.

If their demo is honest, it seems to make a huge difference in the video. I'll probably buy a set. It's not too expensive, so if they don't do it for me, I'm ok.

I have 4 toms: 10, 12, 14, and 18.

Thanx Fox. I'll definitely look into this.
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Old 05-12-2022, 01:10 PM   #23
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If their demo is honest, it seems to make a huge difference in the video.
It's night and day but yea the video's an accurate representation. If you have the chance to try them in person though, there's quite a variety and they all sound different. I preferred the original from the vids and went with that. Wasn't disappointed.

I also really like their tambourine topper on my hat too. Colors the sound subtly and lowers the volume.
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Old 05-13-2022, 04:47 AM   #24
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Even though I gate my snare and toms, when the gate is open, way too much hihat was getting through. My most recent song is the first one I've done since making up the shields, and before I added tambourine, the hihat was finally not sounding clacky and too loud.

I imagine that a small plastic mustard jar would make a pretty good 360 degree shield.

Yeah tried gates & the hat comes in way before the snare goes out leaving a "snnniPPP" at the end. Gates are frickin' tricky. If the threshold's too extreme it cuts off the end of the snare and totally misses lighter strokes. I still use one though, does help a bit in the grand scheme. Tried ReaFir but that was just fooked up. I think Drawmer makes a hardware gate that claims to do some magical voodoo to cut out the hihat. But jeez I could buy a house for what that thing costs And really, I'd be surprised if it actually worked that well. Whatever, in the mix it's usually not a big deal. Annoying when it is.

The mustard jar works fairly well. Doesn't totally lose the hat, tom, or kick but cuts 'em all down a few dB. A 57 fits perfectly through the hole & I cut a notch that's aimed down over the snare head. No way I'd pay $40 for something like that.
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Old 05-13-2022, 06:34 AM   #25
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Yeah tried gates & the hat comes in way before the snare goes out leaving a "snnniPPP" at the end. Gates are frickin' tricky. If the threshold's too extreme it cuts off the end of the snare and totally misses lighter strokes. I still use one though, does help a bit in the grand scheme.
Since I have dedicated mics and channels on my audio interface, and I'm the only one ever recording drums, I've setup a 7 mic drum template in REAPER that has gates already on toms and snare, and set to work how I play. I never even looked at the gates on my most recent project, but I'm sure if I were to isolate snare or toms I'd hear that they are opening and closing. (now I gotta go check)

Quote:
Tried ReaFir but that was just fooked up. I think Drawmer makes a hardware gate that claims to do some magical voodoo to cut out the hihat. But jeez I could buy a house for what that thing costs And really, I'd be surprised if it actually worked that well. Whatever, in the mix it's usually not a big deal. Annoying when it is.

The mustard jar works fairly well. Doesn't totally lose the hat, tom, or kick but cuts 'em all down a few dB. A 57 fits perfectly through the hole & I cut a notch that's aimed down over the snare head. No way I'd pay $40 for something like that.
I've been using triple overheads with a vintage 1999 Rode NT1 dead center mono, and two AT2020s spread out wide and panned hard left/right.

Been toying with buying two short booms and turning the AT2020s into bottom of snare and hihat mics now that the plastic shields I made have tamed the hihat from constantly being too loud. Id I do go down that path, I'll take Norbury Brook's EQ suggestion and use the hihat mic only to add sheen to what it being picked up by the overhead.
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Old 05-13-2022, 12:56 PM   #26
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Since I have dedicated mics and channels on my audio interface, and I'm the only one ever recording drums, I've setup a 7 mic drum template in REAPER that has gates already on toms and snare, and set to work how I play. I never even looked at the gates on my most recent project, but I'm sure if I were to isolate snare or toms I'd hear that they are opening and closing. (now I gotta go check)
I'm just using 4 mics ATM. Everybody's bugging me to mic the toms but cymbal bleed's gonna be the same problem. Besides the overheads pick up the toms pretty well anyways. KISS. But then maybe one o' these days...


Quote:
I've been using triple overheads with a vintage 1999 Rode NT1 dead center mono, and two AT2020s spread out wide and panned hard left/right.

Been toying with buying two short booms and turning the AT2020s into bottom of snare and hihat mics now that the plastic shields I made have tamed the hihat from constantly being too loud. Id I do go down that path, I'll take Norbury Brook's EQ suggestion and use the hihat mic only to add sheen to what it being picked up by the overhead.
Still got the Rodent huh? How you like the 2020s? I'm using a couple of cheap MXL pencils. They work ok except kinda lack low end. But that's all right, the kick mic picks up the lows from the toms Cymbals and particularly the HAT come out real good. That damned hat!!
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Old 05-13-2022, 02:18 PM   #27
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I'm just using 4 mics ATM. Everybody's bugging me to mic the toms but cymbal bleed's gonna be the same problem. Besides the overheads pick up the toms pretty well anyways. KISS. But then maybe one o' these days...
If you go for tom mics, I highly recommend the Sennheiser E604s. They have a capsule much like their big brother the MD421, which I use on my guitar amp. I used to have 421s on my giant Ludwig Octa-Plus kit in the 80s, but sold all but one of them. Just last year I added three E604s to my kit and the toms jump out of the mix like they did when I used to use MD421s.

Quote:
Still got the Rodent huh? How you like the 2020s? I'm using a couple of cheap MXL pencils. They work ok except kinda lack low end. But that's all right, the kick mic picks up the lows from the toms Cymbals and particularly the HAT come out real good. That damned hat!!
The old 1999 2nd gen RodeNT1 is a lot flatter than the later NT1As. The AT2020s are decent at $100 a pop (check Charlie Waymire's AT2020 video on U-Toob), but in chasing down the loud hihat issue, I decided to try using the RodeNT1, which is my vocal mic. I found it to be a bit smoother, so once I had tracked down the majority of my hihat issue being in the tom and snare mics, I kept it up as a mono center mic.

Like I mentioned before, I am toying with the idea of possibly using the AT2020s for a dedicated hihat mic (now that the tom and snare mics are shielded), and as a bottom snare mic. I'll have to do some experimentation to see if that improves the drum sound or not.
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Old 05-13-2022, 05:17 PM   #28
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If you go for tom mics, I highly recommend the Sennheiser E604s. They have a capsule much like their big brother the MD421, which I use on my guitar amp. I used to have 421s on my giant Ludwig Octa-Plus kit in the 80s, but sold all but one of them. Just last year I added three E604s to my kit and the toms jump out of the mix like they did when I used to use MD421s.
Wish I had a couple of those MD421s.

Quote:
The old 1999 2nd gen RodeNT1 is a lot flatter than the later NT1As. (snip)
That says a lot right there. They got something good and then change it. By the time I get around to affording a couple of those Sennheiser E604s it'll be E604A
The "A" stands for crummier with a higher price tag.

Quote:
Like I mentioned before, I am toying with the idea of possibly using the AT2020s for a dedicated hihat mic (now that the tom and snare mics are shielded), and as a bottom snare mic. I'll have to do some experimentation to see if that improves the drum sound or not.
Now yer goin' crazy. Top, bottom, side of snare, Kick in & out, 14 room mics with a couple remotes down the block Seriously the rattle of the snares gets a little lost with just a top mic.

I got these MXL V67n SDC's for overheads. As said earlier they're ok for that. They really shine on hihat for not much more than the 2020s.
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Old 05-14-2022, 07:18 AM   #29
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Wish I had a couple of those MD421s
You might check Guitar Center's used gear page. I bought my Shure Beta 52 kick mic from their used page for less than a hundred bucks. I keep watching for old Rode NT1s too, and see them on occasion, but they always want too much for me to part with my money.

Quote:
That says a lot right there. They got something good and then change it. By the time I get around to affording a couple of those Sennheiser E604s it'll be E604A
The "A" stands for crummier with a higher price tag.
Actually, the new black anodized RodeNT1s are flat response again like the older ones. It was only the "Anniversary" NT1A that they added a peak in the highs for male vocal that messed the mic up.

Quote:
Now yer goin' crazy. Top, bottom, side of snare, Kick in & out, 14 room mics with a couple remotes down the block Seriously the rattle of the snares gets a little lost with just a top mic.
It would still be the same seven mics, with two of them moved to new positions. On my old Ludwig Octa-Plus kit I used to use 13 mics, so 7 on my current smaller Ludwig kit is a lot easier to mix.

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I got these MXL V67n SDC's for overheads. As said earlier they're ok for that. They really shine on hihat for not much more than the 2020s.
Those are probably fine for overheads, but they may not have as much meat on the toms as a pair of AT2020s would have. The 2020s have a 3/4" diaphragm and toms sound pretty decent with just them.

That said, I roll the lows off of them now that I have Sennheiser tom and snare mics.
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Old 05-14-2022, 08:53 AM   #30
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I got these MXL V67n SDC's for overheads. As said earlier they're ok for that. They really shine on hihat for not much more than the 2020s.
In general the V67n (or any of that series) are great mics. I tend to use the SDCs instead of my Neumann KM184s - I also have the V67Q (stereo LDC) and is also a go to mic of mine.
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Old 05-14-2022, 12:27 PM   #31
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I never used to mic my hi hat because there was so much bleed from the snare mics.

Now I'm using hypercardiod Beyerdynamic M201TG's on my snare top and bottom. It cuts down the bleed so much that it's now necessary to mic the hi hat, so I put an Oktava MK-012 with a hypercardioid capsule on it.

That works great. The hi hat fader is usually down really low because there's so much hi hat in the OHs (what is it about hi hats?). But I've got the latitude to bring it up if I need to without turning up the snare.
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Old 05-14-2022, 12:34 PM   #32
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If you go for tom mics, I highly recommend the Sennheiser E604s. They have a capsule much like their big brother the MD421, which I use on my guitar amp. I used to have 421s on my giant Ludwig Octa-Plus kit in the 80s, but sold all but one of them. Just last year I added three E604s to my kit and the toms jump out of the mix like they did when I used to use MD421s....
Yes, the Sennheiser e604s are great. And they aren't that expensive.

Not long ago, looking for something to waste money on, I tried out some of my more expensive mics on my toms. Some other dynamic mics and some very expensive LCDs. Nothing sounded as good as the e604s.

In the same quest, I listened to a lot of tom mic "shootouts". Even over the Internet, the e604s sounded best.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:00 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
In general the V67n (or any of that series) are great mics. I tend to use the SDCs instead of my Neumann KM184s - I also have the V67Q (stereo LDC) and is also a go to mic of mine.
I think it was partly on your recommendation that I got a pair of those. Mostly for overheads but also acoustic guitar and other instruments. Those uses proved worse than disappointing but that's just fine because it's a bit of trouble to set up the drum mics so they're not going anywhere anyway. AFA o'head's I'm really happy with them.

So thanks.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:03 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by vanceen View Post
I never used to mic my hi hat because there was so much bleed from the snare mics.

Now I'm using hypercardiod Beyerdynamic M201TG's on my snare top and bottom. It cuts down the bleed so much that it's now necessary to mic the hi hat, so I put an Oktava MK-012 with a hypercardioid capsule on it.

That works great. The hi hat fader is usually down really low because there's so much hi hat in the OHs (what is it about hi hats?). But I've got the latitude to bring it up if I need to without turning up the snare.
I was wondering whether a tight hypercardiod might help. Man, I really wish I'd got a pair of those MK-012's back when.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:16 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by foxAsteria View Post
Steve Albini recommends a big set of "janitor keys" inside the hat.
I read that, too. I love his recording and mixing advice.
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Old 05-15-2022, 09:31 AM   #36
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Y
Actually, the new black anodized RodeNT1s are flat response again like the older ones. It was only the "Anniversary" NT1A that they added a peak in the highs for male vocal that messed the mic up.

It would still be the same seven mics, with two of them moved to new positions. On my old Ludwig Octa-Plus kit I used to use 13 mics, so 7 on my current smaller Ludwig kit is a lot easier to mix.
Well I was just over the top kidding.

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Those are probably fine for overheads, but they may not have as much meat on the toms as a pair of AT2020s would have. The 2020s have a 3/4" diaphragm and toms sound pretty decent with just them.

That said, I roll the lows off of them now that I have Sennheiser tom and snare mics.
As I replied to Karbo I'm actually pretty happy with the MXLs. Part of why I got them was for ACGT and for that they sucked. Low end for toms isn't really a problem. The kick mic picks up a lot of the bottom, sometimes too much. Plus I can add a EQ bump around 200 Hz.

Side note. A buddy brought over an old pair of AKG 451s. He'd bought 'em used and their outputs were horribly mismatched. Once sorted out they sounded fantastic. But new or used they're not in the budget.
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Old 05-15-2022, 12:19 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Softshell View Post
As I replied to Karbo I'm actually pretty happy with the MXLs. Part of why I got them was for ACGT and for that they sucked. Low end for toms isn't really a problem. The kick mic picks up a lot of the bottom, sometimes too much. Plus I can add a EQ bump around 200 Hz.

Side note. A buddy brought over an old pair of AKG 451s. He'd bought 'em used and their outputs were horribly mismatched. Once sorted out they sounded fantastic. But new or used they're not in the budget.
The 451s are great mics. I used to use a C414 on my hihat back in the 80s when I used 13 mics on the drums in my old studio.
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Old 05-15-2022, 01:30 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Softshell View Post
Well I was just over the top kidding.

As I replied to Karbo I'm actually pretty happy with the MXLs. Part of why I got them was for ACGT and for that they sucked.
Odd, acoustic guitar was one of my main uses of them. YMMV I guess.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:13 AM   #39
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for a beginner its safe to start with a highpass, you dont want 60hz in the hats for sure!
My advice is to time align the overheads to the hihat mike.
Look and mark a spike in the hihat track and pull the OH track to the left so both spikes will "happen" simultaneously.
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Old 05-17-2022, 01:23 AM   #40
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A well used Hi Hat can make a fabulous groove

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