Old 03-09-2019, 09:09 AM   #1
David Carlyon
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Default NRPN bi directional control?

Hi there people, I am pretty much new here. Been trying out reaper (and loving it)
Installed many scripts that have helped enormously, but there is one thing I cannot get around.

I have a couple of analog synths, that I like to control with NRPN messages.
In ableton there is a max for live device that allows me to do what I want:

http://www.maxforlive.com/library/de...893/nrpn-gen-2

It allows me to learn the synth parameters, but also it allows me to control them.
I have downloaded REALEARN by helgoboss. This allows me to learn the synth parameters, then use them to control anything inside reaper (which is great)
But I need to be able to control it the other way too. So I can map all the synth parameters to a device, then use the device to control the synth like a plugin.

Does anyone know a way around this?
I spend the last week in reaper and absolutely loved it, but this is actually quite important to me.
Cheers!
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:10 PM   #2
EvilDragon
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Unfortunately there is no support for NRPN in Reaper as of yet. There were inklings of it in a few prereleases, but it was misunderstood by the devs on how it should be implemented (the whole deal with NRPN address vs values being separate things, etc.). So it is probably going to happen at some point, but as it is now, it is not possible to do it in a visual manner (you can always use the Event List to manually hack in CC 99, then CC 98, then CC 6, then CC 38, but we have better things to do with our lives, right?)
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:09 PM   #3
David Carlyon
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Unfortunately there is no support for NRPN in Reaper as of yet. There were inklings of it in a few prereleases, but it was misunderstood by the devs on how it should be implemented (the whole deal with NRPN address vs values being separate things, etc.). So it is probably going to happen at some point, but as it is now, it is not possible to do it in a visual manner (you can always use the Event List to manually hack in CC 99, then CC 98, then CC 6, then CC 38, but we have better things to do with our lives, right?)
Thanks very much for your reply. Exactly right! I can record the data in no problem, but it is not organised into an editable manner. Dammit!! Was really starting to think I may have found the holy grail!!

I can use the plugin I mentioned to map the nrpn to any controls in reaper which is amazing. But I need the control to go the other way.
Even if it wasn’t natively supported, something like that plugin but facing the other way would do the trick!!

Do any daws support NRPN apart from live? What about dp10? People are raving about that for midi
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Old 03-09-2019, 02:59 PM   #4
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It should be relatively straightforward to write a JS plugin with a bunch of sliders that spit out NRPN message bundles. I recommend to ask in the ReaScript, JSFX, etc forum. I'm sure somebody is willing to help.
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Old 03-09-2019, 05:48 PM   #5
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It should be relatively straightforward to write a JS plugin with a bunch of sliders that spit out NRPN message bundles. I recommend to ask in the ReaScript, JSFX, etc forum. I'm sure somebody is willing to help.
This is what I was thinking! Someone has already made a plugin that allows one to map nrpn coming in - then assign it to control any parameter in reaper (which is surely more complicated) so it must be possible.

However I am very new around here and don’t really feel all that comfortable asking people to spend a load of precious time helping me with this stuff!

I will look up that forum though! Thanks for that. In the long run, I will learn how to do some basic scripting. In the short term I am a total newcomer! Haha.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:13 AM   #6
mschnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
It should be relatively straightforward to write a JS plugin with a bunch of sliders that spit out NRPN message bundles.
OK that will work in realtime.
But writing an NRPM editor that perfectly works together with the Reaper Midi editor on saved Midi data seems like a big challenge...

-Michael
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:50 AM   #7
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I'd even think it's impossible to get it to work perfectly with Reaper's MIDI editor as long as it doesn't have lanes which can be set to send a full NRPN + Data Entry bundle, the kind that ED is dreaming of in his post above.

But seeing that David has the parameter learn part already covered with Realearn (I should have a look into that one) I'd suggest to use that and Reapers parameter automation for this direction.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:00 AM   #8
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Reaper "just" needs to add two more CC lanes: one would be NRPN, the other would be NRPN (14-bit). However the (somewhat) tricky part is that when choosing this lane, another entry field should show up above the CC lane dropdown menu to choose the NRPN address, and then THAT is the holy grail. Especially if we could rename NRPN lanes per address (this is crucial!).

Oh and then there should also be RPN lanes (7- and 14-bit), but they only really have a few parameters defined (and a few more since MPE added some).

I'm hoping since at least some work was done that this will happen early on for Reaper 6. But that's just my personal hope.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:10 PM   #9
David Carlyon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Reaper "just" needs to add two more CC lanes: one would be NRPN, the other would be NRPN (14-bit). However the (somewhat) tricky part is that when choosing this lane, another entry field should show up above the CC lane dropdown menu to choose the NRPN address, and then THAT is the holy grail. Especially if we could rename NRPN lanes per address (this is crucial!).

Oh and then there should also be RPN lanes (7- and 14-bit), but they only really have a few parameters defined (and a few more since MPE added some).

I'm hoping since at least some work was done that this will happen early on for Reaper 6. But that's just my personal hope.
YES! THIS!! that would make life so so much better.
Is there actually any DAW that allows for this?
The closest i have gotten thus far is using a max for live device in live - te device learns the parameter - then you just automate the parameter of the device.

The problem with the reaper plugin i am using, you learn the parameter of the external device, but you have no way of altering that parameter from the plugin. You can just map it to a target. Which in itself is great - i can now use my DeepMind12 to control the Roland Juno (pretty cool)


Will have a go just using CC's later, but it is a shame
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:11 PM   #10
EvilDragon
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Originally Posted by David Carlyon View Post
Is there actually any DAW that allows for this?
AFAIK there is only ONE DAW which does it like that (with dedicated NRPN lanes), and that is Sonar.
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:13 PM   #11
David Carlyon
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AFAIK there is only ONE DAW which does it like that (with dedicated NRPN lanes), and that is Sonar.
I will check that out tonight! People keep telling me that DP is the best for midi. i can't say i got on with it very well, but then i didn't use it for long.
Would really like ot make a reaper setup work to be honest. it is by far the most complete out of everything i have tried!
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Old 03-10-2019, 12:18 PM   #12
David Carlyon
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Aaaaaand....Windows only. Dammit. though i do plan to switch to Windows this year.
Looks like a nice DAW. But doesn't get even close to reaper in most areas.
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