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Old 06-05-2011, 02:22 PM   #41
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Have a look at the original Neve schematic guys. Take note of the input XLR and output XLR connectors and how they are connected directly to the transformers. The only way to drive the input transformer harder is to feed it with a bigger signal and the input stepped attenuator doesn't change that.
Likewise on the output, if you feed a louder signal into the transformer, you get a louder output at the XLR. Again, you cannot reduce the level at the output XLR without reducing the drive to the transformer.

If you alter the gain staging so that your input attenuator and output fader are maintaining a constant output (ie, increase input gain and decrease output OR decrease input and increase output), you are NOT altering the drive to either the input OR the output transformers. All you are altering is the drive to the input stage transistors.
Given that they are operating in class A mode, you WILL change their saturation characteristics and THIS is where your alteration in colour is coming from. That is one of the benefits of the Neve class A design. It will clip much more musically than a class AB design common in cheaper preamps. Your overdrive characteristics are coming from clipping the transistors, not oversaturating the transformers.

Here's the original Neve schematic...

http://www.technicalaudio.com/neve/n...73-fullpak.pdf
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:10 PM   #42
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Not arguing at all.. Just so you know.

but I get how they are wired..
You can see the pic below of my LTD-1 which uses Mariner transformers and I think St. Ives..can't remember.

But I've put Carnhill and Sowter transformers in Chameleon Labs for people.
I get what stage they enter into the pic.. But you're making it sound like they are that big of a difference on the tone/distortion.
We all could hear the difference on those Chameleon'. I'm sure one reason they now offer them with Carnhill..
No other parts were changed.. and the thing was like another $1000. unit.

I think all my micpres have transformers at this point..all with very different colors.. Even things like the Langevin DVC vs the TG2. Both can do clean and both can do dirt.. But only one of them has 2 transformers..The DVC doesn't have a output transformer only input.. So yeah you can hit it harder with (Source) and of course driving the gain is hitting everything else past the transformer harder..But change those transformers and you are changing a big part of the sound.

Just like a Marshall amp.. you mess around with even just the output transformer and your changing the whole color...

I get keeping cost down.. But if your building the clone. Why not try to keep it to it's classic self?
Even SCA did that.. and I believe Geoff Tanner said in all his Neve years SCA has gotten the closest to doing it right if not better..Seeing the Tanner feels the components in the early Neve stuff wasn't the best of course..Given it's time period.
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:12 PM   #43
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Sorry for got pics..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Chandler inside 1.jpg (66.2 KB, 749 views)
File Type: jpg Chandler inside 3.jpg (56.1 KB, 542 views)
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:26 PM   #44
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Certainly the transformers in any preamp will be a source of colouration and that is what gives them some of their character. However, changing the gain controls on the Neve 1073 does not alter the signal at the input transformer at all. Changing the output control does change the level going to the output amplifier which is then changing the level at the output transformer but that also increases the output at the XLR too. You cannot increase the output transformer saturation without causing an increase in the output at the XLR.

What I am saying is that for a given input and a given output, if you alter the gain staging to change the drive to the input and output amp stages, you are NOT altering the signal level at either the input or the output transformer. Thus, you are not changing the saturation of the transformer cores.

You ARE getting colouration from the transformers but that is fixed colouration, independent of the input attenuator or output fader (assuming the output level is maintained via gain staging). The overdrive characteristics are coming from the three input stage transistors. Of course, the output transformer will colour the overdriven signal but it is not the transformer saturating that is causing that overdrive.

The only way to change the saturation of the output transformer is to increase it's drive signal which will also increase the output at the XLR.

The only way to change the saturation of the input transformer is to increase the signal applied to the input XLR (ie, with a louder signal at the mic).

Transformer saturation and transistor overdrive are two separate things, both of which are characteristics of the design of such a preamp.

Last edited by ReaDave; 06-05-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:36 PM   #45
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Well I think we are sort of saying the same thing..Just differently.
When I made my first statement I guess I should have through in everything else.. But most people think of the transformer color first..From all the internets talk..

So that if my fault for leaving that out.. and Of course if you push the output transformer the volume goes up.. I agree with all that.. Sort of the reason many guys will pad the output of their API's so they can drive them harder before hitting the A/D converter.
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:43 PM   #46
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Well I think we are sort of saying the same thing..Just differently.
When I made my first statement I guess I should have through in everything else.. But most people think of the transformer color first..From all the internets talk..

So that if my fault for leaving that out.. and Of course if you push the output transformer the volume goes up.. I agree with all that.. Sort of the reason many guys will pad the output of their API's so they can drive them harder before hitting the A/D converter.
Agreed completely

I can see the value of having an output control and it is a straight forward inclusion. I was leaning towards not having one on my personal build mainly because I will be running the output of my pre into a trimmable A/D converter.
However, I am starting to rethink that. I can see the value of reducing the drive to the output stage of the pre as well as having trim on the A/D input. That gives more possibility of variation which is always a good thing.
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Old 06-05-2011, 03:51 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
Agreed completely

I can see the value of having an output control and it is a straight forward inclusion. I was leaning towards not having one on my personal build mainly because I will be running the output of my pre into a trimmable A/D converter.
However, I am starting to rethink that. I can see the value of reducing the drive to the output stage of the pre as well as having trim on the A/D input. That gives more possibility of variation which is always a good thing.
Great.. I have only 2 pres with one pot style.
That's Great River and Presonus M80 (my overflow ch's)
They are clean so I find no need to push them.
But I do find it useful having that extra gain stage on both my Chandlers the Langevin (through it's limiter output so that's cheating)..
and My 1272's..
one of the many things I liked about the idea Classic Audio VP26 API is he added that out to it...It really makes it handy whether you are hitting A/D converter or tape..
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Old 06-05-2011, 04:45 PM   #48
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Great.. I have only 2 pres with one pot style.
That's Great River and Presonus M80 (my overflow ch's)
They are clean so I find no need to push them.
But I do find it useful having that extra gain stage on both my Chandlers the Langevin (through it's limiter output so that's cheating)..
and My 1272's..
one of the many things I liked about the idea Classic Audio VP26 API is he added that out to it...It really makes it handy whether you are hitting A/D converter or tape..
Cool studio you have there (Big Bang Audio). I just had a look through some of the pics and had a listen to some of the tracks you have on the 'sound' page.
Did you guys record the Max Mueller stuff or was that recorded elsewhere and mixed by you? I'm curious to know what the vox chain was (mic, pre, etc), particularly on Bright Blue Eyes.
Same with Dave Glaser's Spaghetti. Some nice stuff going on in those mixes.

Your studio space with the 20' ceilings is cool too
Looks like fun!!
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Old 06-05-2011, 05:06 PM   #49
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Cool studio you have there (Big Bang Audio). I just had a look through some of the pics and had a listen to some of the tracks you have on the 'sound' page.
Did you guys record the Max Mueller stuff or was that recorded elsewhere and mixed by you? I'm curious to know what the vox chain was (mic, pre, etc), particularly on Bright Blue Eyes.
Same with Dave Glaser's Spaghetti. Some nice stuff going on in those mixes.

Your studio space with the 20' ceilings is cool too
Looks like fun!!
Thanks Dannii (I should have added an extra "i" my name is Ronni)

Yes.. Max is my older singer. I just posted 2 of his tunes on GS under the Satson thread.. I was a beta tester for Satson so I used it on his stuff.

Hard to remember.. that was many years ago. But I can tell you a few of the main mics used on his session for vocals back then.. Was U48, Blue Bottle w/B6 cap, Soundelux U95s and U195. Preamp was either the LTD-1 or the TG2 both were great on his voice..But I changed depending on the tune. Compressor tracking in was Distressor..He's also a great gtr player.. pedals were our Barber pedals into Max's Marshall pelxi.

Dave Glasser recorded most of that with me and I mixed it. But some thing he recorded at Q Division in Boston. There is sang into a M49 not sure pre amp.
At my place what sounded good on him was U95s, Shure KSM32 and on this song you're asking about that was a Royer R121 with 2 pop filters going into a Neve 1272.. It's a dark thick sound. But he's sort of esss-y sounding so that smoothed it out. I think I did 2 or 3 tunes with him using the Royer on vocals.. The compressor on him was the Distressor as well..
The Dave Glasser stuff and Max was tracked and mixed in my old Pro Tools TDM rig.. The Mixes with Satson I did that are posted on GS is using Reaper now.

Also side note.. All that work was on our old RME converters I grew to hate..
Now using SSL Alpha Link an Dangerous D-Box for monitoring..I prefer big time over the RME/Central Station I had.

Sad news!!! That building is no more home to me..
I spent 10yrs there did some cool work.. One of my first clients there was George Clinton and the P-Funk All Stars..

We built it.. and years later new land lord wanted way to much money.. Plus our utilities around here went way up... That and bands doing more at home started using me for either drum tracking or just mixing...Wasn't enough.
So now I have a smaller shop.. Half studio half Custom Shop and Drilling for my pedal building for Barber Electronics.

Right now my main client is a bass player Max and I played with..He's doing his first solo record. Sort of pop/rock.. But songs are from 20yrs ago to today..so sort of all over the map writing wise.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:44 PM   #50
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So now we're looking at custom made clones then and no kits right? What do we have so far? Also we should set a budget limit also that we'd like to hit per pre.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:51 PM   #51
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I like the idea of 500 series stuff.
Even if it's still custom. Just becomes some may already have a power lunchbox or even if they buy one.. You can still add a ton of other products to it..
I like the idea.. with 500 series you can load it with pres. Then for mixing you could if you didn't have room swap stuff like EQ's/comps.

I've been thinking about making 2 of our products 500 series. but HAven't had the time to work on it.

I wish SCA did other formats like 500. I hear good things about the N72 But I don't want to buy a rack that holds 8 units I'm never going to build.
And I don't have time to put a new rack together for it..
One of those things where after a day of building/soldering 10yrs a day.
The last thing I want to do is build more..
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Old 06-06-2011, 06:57 PM   #52
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Radial has some 500 series stuff, and info on it that they call the "Workhorse Open Source Document" and they say that it's "a free developer's guide to building 500 series rack modules".
http://www.radialeng.com/whbeta/re-workhorse.htm
Radial also claims that their rack is compatible with the "VPR Alliance printed specification". Here's that site:
http://www.apiaudio.com/vpr_alliance.html
Not sure if this applies here - just thought I'd mention it since I coincidentally got an e-mail about it today.
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:13 PM   #53
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Radial has some 500 series stuff, and info on it that they call the "Workhorse Open Source Document" and they say that it's "a free developer's guide to building 500 series rack modules".
http://www.radialeng.com/whbeta/re-workhorse.htm
Radial also claims that their rack is compatible with the "VPR Alliance printed specification". Here's that site:
http://www.apiaudio.com/vpr_alliance.html
Not sure if this applies here - just thought I'd mention it since I coincidentally got an e-mail about it today.
Yeah.. I've seen that. Have a friend who got one.
I'm thinking more since everyone is talking cost (cheap) I'd look for a used API 6slot lunchbox..Could be had for $350.

Then you could load it with some many things.. and there is a ton of DIY stuff..Guys making LA3A, Neve pres, API you name it.
Just seems to be something nice to swap around. I have a buddy who built that Classic Audio and another 500 series.. But he actually found a 10 slot power rack used that some one built.
There is a kit to build your own 500series powered rack.
The Radial is cool.. But $1500..
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:40 AM   #54
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Thanks Dannii (I should have added an extra "i" my name is Ronni)

Yes.. Max is my older singer. I just posted 2 of his tunes on GS under the Satson thread.. I was a beta tester for Satson so I used it on his stuff.

Hard to remember.. that was many years ago. But I can tell you a few of the main mics used on his session for vocals back then.. Was U48, Blue Bottle w/B6 cap, Soundelux U95s and U195. Preamp was either the LTD-1 or the TG2 both were great on his voice..But I changed depending on the tune. Compressor tracking in was Distressor..He's also a great gtr player.. pedals were our Barber pedals into Max's Marshall pelxi.

Dave Glasser recorded most of that with me and I mixed it. But some thing he recorded at Q Division in Boston. There is sang into a M49 not sure pre amp.
At my place what sounded good on him was U95s, Shure KSM32 and on this song you're asking about that was a Royer R121 with 2 pop filters going into a Neve 1272.. It's a dark thick sound. But he's sort of esss-y sounding so that smoothed it out. I think I did 2 or 3 tunes with him using the Royer on vocals.. The compressor on him was the Distressor as well..
The Dave Glasser stuff and Max was tracked and mixed in my old Pro Tools TDM rig.. The Mixes with Satson I did that are posted on GS is using Reaper now.

Also side note.. All that work was on our old RME converters I grew to hate..
Now using SSL Alpha Link an Dangerous D-Box for monitoring..I prefer big time over the RME/Central Station I had.

Sad news!!! That building is no more home to me..
I spent 10yrs there did some cool work.. One of my first clients there was George Clinton and the P-Funk All Stars..

We built it.. and years later new land lord wanted way to much money.. Plus our utilities around here went way up... That and bands doing more at home started using me for either drum tracking or just mixing...Wasn't enough.
So now I have a smaller shop.. Half studio half Custom Shop and Drilling for my pedal building for Barber Electronics.

Right now my main client is a bass player Max and I played with..He's doing his first solo record. Sort of pop/rock.. But songs are from 20yrs ago to today..so sort of all over the map writing wise.
That's a real shame about your studio space. I bet you miss it.

With all this talk about the Satson stuff, it's a shame he doesn't have a demo version. I am curious even if I am unconvinced about the crosstalk 'feature'. I HATE crosstalk!!! lol
I assume the crosstalk can be switched off and the saturation used independently?

...and Neumann into Neve.... how could you go wrong there?!! I don't have the Neumann yet but the Neve is on it's way in one form or the other depending on what happens in this thread.
I have a really nice C414 (an eb model with CK12 capsule) and I am itching to hear that through a 1073.
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So now we're looking at custom made clones then and no kits right? What do we have so far? Also we should set a budget limit also that we'd like to hit per pre.
Not necessarily. I'm weighing up options, parts cost, postage and labour at the moment and am awaiting some news from Pixeltarian to see what he's come up with price wise for components.

I have put together some rough costings to build SCA kits and that is certainly a viable option for my personal unit and others in Australia. The postage could be a deal breaker for me to build them and ship back to USA though.
Another option for USA folk is for me to build and bias the modules here and ship them back for you guys to do the hardware assembly. The bulky and heavy stuff is the killer with postage.

A rough preliminary estimate for me to build completed units in the SCA rack with their PSU would be:

2x N72 modules in SCA rack with PSU: ~AU$1600
8x N72 modules in SCA rack with PSU: ~AU$4000
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:52 AM   #55
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2x N72 modules in SCA rack with PSU: ~AU$1600
8x N72 modules in SCA rack with PSU: ~AU$4000
well at that price... you can count me out.

I was hoping to use the power supply and case I already have and grab a pcb, trafo, and other components for 200 bucks + labor and shipping.


.... and oh yeah - I'll get on that price list. my assumption is you were going to give me a list of the "hard to find" stuff so I don't have to look up every single resistor and cap right now. 140 components to look up... eventually.

I'm sure we'll find that the build I mentioned is going to be a lot cheaper than doing the SCA kit.



.

Last edited by pixeltarian; 06-07-2011 at 04:27 AM.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:27 AM   #56
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well at that price... you can count me out.
Yeah. The postage to Aus is a killer. It is nearly $600 for the 8 module version. I'm still seriously considering building some of those for my studio though.
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I was hoping to use the power supply and case I already have and grab a pcb, trafo, and other components for 200 bucks + labor and shipping.
That's the sort of ballpark I am hoping we can aim for with the full DIY.
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.... and oh yeah - I'll get on that price list. my assumption is you were going to give me a list of the "hard to find" stuff so I don't have to look up every single resistor and cap right now.

I'm sure we'll find that the build I mentioned is going to be a lot cheaper than doing the SCA kit.



.
Sorry about that. If you can investigate prices on the switches, transformers, transistors and XLR's, I can cost the resistors, capacitors and diodes. Anything we've left out, we can take care of as we go.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:29 AM   #57
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.....I'm sure we'll find that the build I mentioned is going to be a lot cheaper than doing the SCA kit..
It should be considerably cheaper even with the extra labour involved.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:32 AM   #58
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If you can investigate prices on the switches, transformers, transistors and XLR's, I can cost the resistors, capacitors and diodes. Anything we've left out, we can take care of as we go.
cool. I'll get on that. you have the BOM, right?
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:33 AM   #59
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cool. I'll get on that. you have the BOM, right?
Yep. You do too yeah?
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:34 AM   #60
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Yep. You do too yeah?
i'm looking at it as we speak... erm... post messages on the form.
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Old 06-07-2011, 04:38 AM   #61
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i'm looking at it as we speak... erm... post messages on the form.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:30 AM   #62
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initial estimate for my list:
166.52 - I think that includes all the expensive stuff.

here's what I priced thus far:


the xlr connectors I guess we should probably get from mouser or digikey. they're cheaper at redco, but paying for another shipping location... expensive.

there are some additional PSU components I did not price. I figure we're going to get a PSU kit from fivefish or something. Also, I'm not sure if anything I priced is meant to go on a PSU, but I don't think so.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:37 AM   #63
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initial estimate for my list:
166.52 - I think that includes all the expensive stuff.

here's what I priced thus far:


there are some additional PSU components I did not price. I figure we're going to get a PSU kit from fivefish or something. Also, I'm not sure if anything I priced is meant to go on a PSU, but I don't think so.
Yeah, no need to price PSU parts. Does your list include the Grayhill switch and the PCB? (edit - you must've edited your post just as I hit the quote button!!)

With the resistors, caps, heatsinks and various hardware, we're probably looking at around $250 which is only around $50 less than building the SCA modules. Hmmm.....
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:38 AM   #64
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Yeah, no need to price PSU parts. Does your list include the Grayhill switch and the PCB?

With the resistors, caps, heatsinks and various hardware, we're probably looking at around $250 which is only around $50 less than building the SCA modules. Hmmm.....
yes, that includes the greyhill (well, not greyhill - but this http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acat...nded_info.html ) and the pcb (and the phantom switch and led).
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:17 AM   #65
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I didn't realise until now but we have Digi-Key here in Australia.
Since I have all the Digi-Key catalogue numbers in the BOM, I'll look up the things we haven't yet covered there. That will make this a LOT easier.
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:40 AM   #66
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OK. Pricing for the following items based on the minimum order quantity necessary comes to US$67.57.

Pixeltarian, items in BOLD are NOT INCLUDED in this pricing (some of them you've already covered). If you could chase up the BOLD items in RED, that would be a great help.

Item Qty Ref Value Marking Description Manufacturer Manufacturer's No Source
1 2 C1, C7 100pF 101 J C0G Ceramic Kemet C315C101J2G5TA Digi-Key 0.43 each 0.29 10up
2 1 C17 220pF 221 J C0G Ceramic Kemet C315C221J1G5TA Digi-Key 0.40 each 0.28 10up
3 1 C19 330pF 331 J C0G Ceramic Kemet C315C331J1G5TA Digi-Key 0.40 each 0.28 10up
4 1 C9 680pF 681 J C0G Ceramic Kemet C315C681J1G5TA Digi-Key 0.47 each 0.33 10up
5 1 C13 1000pF 102 J C0G Ceramic Kemet C320C102J1G5TA Digi-Key 0.47 each 0.33 10up
6 1 C8 1500pF 152 J C0G Ceramic Kemet C320C152J1G5TA Digi-Key 0.48 each 0.34 10up
7 1 C18 4700pF 472 K X7R Ceramic Kemet C315C472K5R5TA Digi-Key 0.32 each 0.22 10up
8 1 C4 .01uF 103 K X7R Ceramic Kemet C315C103K1R5TA Digi-Key 0.35 each 0.24 10up
9 1 C24 0.1uF 104 K X7R Ceramic Kemet C320C104K5R5TA Digi-Key 0.32 each 0.25 10up
10 4 C6, C12, C14, C16 22uF/16V 226 16 Tantalum Electrolytic Kemet T350F226K016AT Digi-Key 1.30 each 1.03 10up
11 1 C26 22uF/35V 226 35 Tantalum Electrolytic Kemet T356K226K035AT Digi-Key 3.27 each 2.64 10up
12 1 C10 22uF/25V 22uF 25V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEA-FC1E220 Digi-Key 0.33 each 0.15 50up
13 1 C25 22uF/35V 22uf 35V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC1V220 Digi-Key out of stock 0.33 each 0.15 50up
14 2 C20, C21 82uF/25V 82uF 25V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC1E820 Digi-Key 0.34 each 0.16 50up
15 1 C2 100uF/25V 100uF 25V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC1E101S Digi-Key 0.34 each 0.16 50up
16 2 C29, C30 100uF/ 63V 100uF 63V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC1J101 Digi-Key 0.54 each
17 1 C11 150uF/6.3V 150uF 6.3V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC0J151 Digi-Key 0.49 each 0.24 50up
18 1 C15 470uF/10V 470uF 10V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC1A471 Digi-Key 0.48 each 0.24 50up
19 1 C3 470uF/25V 470uF 25V Radial Electrolytic Panasonic EEU-FC1E471 Digi-Key 0.64 each
20 1 C23 1500uF/50V 1500uF 50V Snap-In Electrolytic Panasonic ECO-S1HA152BA Digi-Key 2.05 each
21 1 R20 0 Black Zero-ohm Jumper Yageo ZOR-25-B Digi-Key 0.11 5up
22 1 R49 10 Brown-Black-Black-Gold Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-10R0 Digi-Key 0.13 5up
23 1 R7 27 Red-Violet-Black-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-27R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
24 1 R6 56 Green-Blue-Black-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-56R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
25 1 R9 120 Brown-Red-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-120R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
26 1 R10 147 Brown-Yellow-Violet-Black-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-147R Digi-Key 0.13 5up
27 2 R43, R45 150 Brown-Green-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-150R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
28 1 R14 270 Red-Violet-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-270R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
29 1 R13 316 Orange-Brown-Blue-Black-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-316R Digi-Key 0.13 5up
30 1 R8 330 Orange-Orange-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-330R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
31 2 R2, R30 390 Orange-White-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-390R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
32 1 R26 470 Yellow-Violet-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-470R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
33 1 R1 499 Yellow-White-White-Black-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-499R Digi-Key 0.13 5up
34 1 R16 604 Blue-Black-Yellow-Black-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-604R Digi-Key 0.13 5up
35 1 R3 680 Blue-Gray-Brown-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-680R Digi-Key 0.08 5up
36 1 R12 825 Gray-Red-Green-Black-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-825R Digi-Key 0.13 5up
37 2 R4, R36 1K2 Brown-Red-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-1K2 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
38 2 R17, R27 1K5 Brown-Green-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-1K5 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
39 1 R31 1K8 Brown-Gray-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-1K8 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
40 3 R5, R29, R33 2K2 Red-Red-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-2K2 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
41 1 R44 2K7 Red-Violet-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-2K7 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
42 1 R37 3K3 Orange-Orange-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-3K3 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
43 1 R25 5K1 Green-Brown-Red-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-5K1 Digi-Key 0.08 5up
44 1 R11 6K34 Blue-Orange-Yellow-Brown-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-6K34 Digi-Key 0.13 5up
45 2 R46, R47 6K65 55D 6K65 B Metal Film Resistor 1/4W IRC RC55LF-D-6K65-B-B Mouser
46 2 R28, R50 10K Brown-Black-Orange-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-10K Digi-Key 0.08 5up 0.05 10up
47 2 R15, R38 18K Brown-Gray-Orange-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-18K Digi-Key 0.08 5up
48 1 R23 33K Orange-Orange-Orange-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-33K Digi-Key 0.08 5up
49 1 R24 47K Yellow-Violet-Orange-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-47K Digi-Key 0.08 5up
50 2 R34, R42 56K Green-Blue-Orange-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-56K Digi-Key 0.08 5up
51 2 R22, R35 68K Blue-Gray-Orange-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-68K Digi-Key 0.08 5up
52 1 R48 100K Brown-Black-Yellow-Gold Carbon Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo CFR-25JB-100K Digi-Key 0.08 5up
53 1 R21 127K Brown-Red-Violet-Orange-Brown Metal Film Resistor 1/4W Yageo MFR-25FBF-127K Digi-Key 0.13 5up
54 1 R40 47 Yellow-Violet-Black-Gold Metal Film Resistor 2W Vishay 5083NW47R00J Mouser
55 1 R41 3K9 Orange-White-Red-Gold Metal Film Resistor 2W Vishay 5083NW3K900J Mouser

56 1 R39 5K 502 Potentiometer Bourns 3296Y-502LF-ND Digi-Key 2.56 each 2.26 10up
57 1 R19 10K 91A1A-B24-D15L Potentiometer Bourns 91A1A-B24-D15L Digi-Key 6.58 each 5.83 10up
58 5 Q1 - Q5 BC184C BC184C NPN Bipolar Fairchild BC184C Mouser
59 1 Q6 2N3055 2N3055 NPN Power On Semi 2N3055G Digi-Key 2.17 each 1.96 10up
60 1 Q7 MPSA06 NPN Bipolar NPN Bipolar Fairchild MPSA06 Digi-Key 0.55 each?
61 1 Q8 MPSA56 PNP Bipolar PNP Bipolar Fairchild MPSA56 Digi-Key 0.55 each
62 1 U1 LM317 LM317T Voltage Regulator National LM317TNS Digi-Key 1.86 each
63 4 D1, D2, D3, D4 1N4002 1N4002 Diode General Semi 1N4002-E3/54 Digi-Key 0.47 each
64 1 TO-3 Heatsink Aavid 501503B00000 Digi-Key 0.75 each
65 1 TO-220 Heatsink Aavid 577202B00000 Digi-Key 0.51 each 0.42 10up
66 1 CONN1 XLR F Neutrik NC3FBHR-2 Brill
67 1 CONN2 XLR M Neutrik NC3MBHR Brill

68 1 J1 6-Pin Header Molex 26-60-4060 Digi-Key 0.74 each 0.52 10up
69 3 J2, J5, J6 2-Pin Header Molex 22-28-4020 Digi-Key 0.69 each 0.42 10up
70 2 J3, J4 3-Pin Header Molex 22-28-4030 Digi-Key 0.61 each 0.38 10up
71 5 Shorting jumpers Sullins STC02SYAN Digi-Key 0.09 10up
72 1 S3 SW_DPDT DPDT Toggle Switch DPDT Toggle Switch E Switch 100AWDP1T2B4M7RE Digi-Key 6.01 each 4.98 10up
73 1 S1 SW_SPDT SPDT Toggle Switch SPDT Toggle Switch E Switch 100AWSP1T2B4M7RE Digi-Key 5.31 each 4.39 10up
74 1 S2 71BDF30-03-1-AJS 71BDF30-03-1-AJS 3-Deck Rotary Switch Grayhill 71BDF30-03-1-AJS Grayhill
75 2 Fluted Knob Cosmo 39-7747-001-00-3-10 Cosmo
76 1 T1 VTB9045 Input Transformer Carnhill VTB9045 Carnhill
77 1 T2 VTB1847 Output Transformer Carnhill VTB1847 Carnhill
78 1 Mounting Bracket Hub SCA
79 1 Insulator PSF SCA
80 4 #4-40 x 1 1/4" Pan head machine screw Olander
81 5 #4-40 x 1/4" Pan head machine screw, trilobe Olander
82 5 #4-40 Keps nut Olander
83 2 #6-32 x 3/8" Pan head machine screw Olander
84 2 #6-32 Keps nut Olander
85 2 #4-48 x 1/4" Pan head machine screw Olander
86 4 1/8" Nylon spacer Olander
87 4 1/16" Nylon spacer Olander
88 1 12" Hookup wire 26 AWG Solid NTE
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Old 06-07-2011, 07:50 AM   #67
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Hmmm... I noticed that I can set the Digi-Key price to $AU which would be what I'd pay here. Strangely, even though the AU dollar is stronger than the US dollar at present, AU prices are dearer. On top of that, there's also shipping.

Pixeltarian, it might be more economical for you to order everything from Digi-Key in the US and ship everything to me for assembly in one package. You should be able to email them a full parts list based on the SCA BOM we've been working with. That would make your job a lot easier.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:07 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
Hmmm... I noticed that I can set the Digi-Key price to $AU which would be what I'd pay here. Strangely, even though the AU dollar is stronger than the US dollar at present, AU prices are dearer. On top of that, there's also shipping.

Pixeltarian, it might be more economical for you to order everything from Digi-Key in the US and ship everything to me for assembly in one package. You should be able to email them a full parts list based on the SCA BOM we've been working with. That would make your job a lot easier.
you want me to delete things like shrink tubing and power supply parts, right?

also, this is from the designer of the PCB's mouth:

"Hi Jeffrey, total cost per channel incl. case, psu, etc. is about $300."


.
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Old 06-07-2011, 11:23 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixeltarian View Post
you want me to delete things like shrink tubing and power supply parts, right?

also, this is from the designer of the PCB's mouth:

"Hi Jeffrey, total cost per channel incl. case, psu, etc. is about $300."


.
There's nothing on the N72 BOM about the PSU. That is all for the preamps. We'd probably need almost everything except the SCA PCB which is last on the list.
We're at roughly $235 - $240 at present without the remaining bits. I think my estimate of around $250 for preamp parts won't be far off.
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Old 06-07-2011, 05:59 PM   #70
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That would be sweet! 2 Neve styled pres for 500ish!? Awesome!
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Old 06-07-2011, 06:24 PM   #71
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I am also interested in this.
I always love re built designs where the R & D costs aren't passed on..

FWIW ObiK and Dannii......
You 2 guys are always pitching in and helping people here, so thanks again for the considerate help.
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Old 06-07-2011, 10:02 PM   #72
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I am watching this as an innocent bystander, lol.

I love the thought of building clones of great gear.

I have a friend in Seattle who is an amp fanatic, and has built a TrainWreck and some other stuff. I like the DIY concept when it comes to gear.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:35 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObiK View Post
That would be sweet! 2 Neve styled pres for 500ish!? Awesome!
Just to clarify Obi, that's our estimate for the parts for the preamp modules. There's no case hardware, power supply or labour in that estimate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by XITE-1/4LIVE View Post
I am also interested in this.
I always love re built designs where the R & D costs aren't passed on..

FWIW ObiK and Dannii......
You 2 guys are always pitching in and helping people here, so thanks again for the considerate help.
It's all reciprocal. I've gained so much as a member of this community and it is good to be able to contribute in a like manner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardrock69 View Post
I am watching this as an innocent bystander, lol.

I love the thought of building clones of great gear.

I have a friend in Seattle who is an amp fanatic, and has built a TrainWreck and some other stuff. I like the DIY concept when it comes to gear.
I've always loved DIY too. I designed and built my first HiFi system in 1984 and it is still going strong today (it is now my bedroom HiFi). There's a certain sense of satisfaction with building (and sometimes designing) your own gear and things can be custom tailored to specific requirements.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:53 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dannii View Post
Just to clarify Obi, that's our estimate for the parts for the preamp modules. There's no case hardware, power supply or labour in that estimate.

It's all reciprocal. I've gained so much as a member of this community and it is good to be able to contribute in a like manner.

I've always loved DIY too. I designed and built my first HiFi system in 1984 and it is still going strong today (it is now my bedroom HiFi). There's a certain sense of satisfaction with building (and sometimes designing) your own gear and things can be custom tailored to specific requirements.
Because of that I'm starting to think a 500 series based would be a good idea.
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Old 06-08-2011, 04:27 PM   #75
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Just got another e-mail from Radial, saying that the WR-8 rack (for 500-series modules) without the mixer (which is apparently a Radial enhancement to the 500 spec) has a retail price of $799 USD, not the $1400 mentioned earlier in this thread.

Again, I just thought this info might be helpful in some way.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:50 PM   #76
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Interesting thread. I've always wanted to do something like this. I'll pass for now, but if an opportunity comes up, or if you guys decide to do something with an API 312 clone, count me in.

I hope you guys will post some detailed pics as this project progresses.

Thanks, Wyatt
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:08 PM   #77
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My main thing is I would like to keep it under 1000 for 2 channels. API or Neve they both sound good to me!
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:09 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ObiK View Post
My main thing is I would like to keep it under 1000 for 2 channels. API or Neve they both sound good to me!
i vote neve. this may or may not be because I already have a pair of 312s...

I also am thinking...

I think that Dani should build herself one and no one else. then AFTER she knows what's involved she can then determine some logistics that you just can't predict unless you actually do it.
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Old 06-09-2011, 07:47 PM   #79
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I think she should build me one and no one else.

Then I can report back with my enjoyment level.


(I should clarify that I do not have the money right now to participate, but I am interested and will keep following this thread)
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Old 06-09-2011, 08:24 PM   #80
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whats the price?
I need a mic preamp with compressor does this have a compressor?

Jay
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