Old 02-04-2018, 11:54 PM   #81
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Do you think theres a way to make it so SWS Live Configs responds to midi CC#'s instead of different calues on the same cc#? This makes it difficult to use other software with this pedalboard, like my iPad guitar setup, though I guess I could load and unload pedalboard presets. Or I could bite the bullet, make everything into a program change instead and use the PC to CC think you linked, though the iPad software won't like that so much either
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Old 02-05-2018, 08:49 AM   #82
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As already said at the beginning of this discussion, to me the "straight forward" (recommended by me) way go go is to do all Midi preprocessing in JSFXes (switching off the "control" input in the midi device setting) and use MidiToReaControlPath to send the result of that preprocessing (which will be CC messages with CC # or Midi Channel according to the LiveConfigs page and the CC value according to the line to be activated) to LiveConfigs.

I used this with my keyboards sending Program change messages (each keyboard attached to a dedicated midi device), and with the XTouch controller board sending note-On messages for selecting patches. Of course such patch change trigger messages can be any message type and list you like.

I could not change the behavior of the keyboards, and for a similar reason as you describe, I use the XTouch in it's default programming (nearly).

Hence the JSFX system is used to do all the necessary preprocessing.

As you decided to use "shortcuts" (e.g. by having your pedal board send messages according to the internal usage in the Reaper system, using Actions with ReScripts, ...), enhancing your setup is not "straight forward" any more, and needs appropriate afterthought, I am not really competent to assist with.

-Michael

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Old 02-05-2018, 03:36 PM   #83
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I'm going to try it like that, reprogram the pedalboard to all PC's, use the JS converter like you said, then see if I can remap my ipad so that it is ok with PC's
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Old 02-05-2018, 10:33 PM   #84
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I cant seem to get MIDI learn for individual fx to work if I disable "enable input for control messages" in midi devices
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Old 02-05-2018, 11:06 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
reprogram the pedalboard to all PC's
I never suggested this. (PS is the usual way Master keyboards work, "Button-controllers" usually send other messages.) I just mentioned that it is possible to have the pedalboard send anything it (or you) like and do some preprocessing in JSFXes.

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... use the JS converter
I did not suggest to use "the JS converter", as same needs to be a (set of JSFX scrips to be found or crafted according to the task in question.

-Michael

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Old 02-05-2018, 11:15 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I cant seem to get MIDI learn for individual fx to work if I disable "enable input for control messages" in midi devices
Reaper provides two different ways to have midi modulate the VST (automation) parameters of a plugin (e.g. VST or JSFX).

1) "learn": here the Midi message, being the modulation source, is received from the "Reaper Control Path" (that as has been mentioned above is fed e.g. by the "control" box enabled in the Midi device seting).

2) "parameter Modulation" (in the menu directly above "learn"). Here the modulation source can be either a Midi message in the midi stream of same FX chain as the plugin is placed in (or taken from some other Midi bus definable in a menu you'll get to later) or from a ReaMidiControl plugin placed in that track (but never from the Reaper Control Path).

Sorry for creating some confusion, but Reaper is rather complex at this level and the documentation is very sparse. I obviously need to enhance the LiveConfigs Guide by several additional chapters .

-Michael

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Old 02-06-2018, 12:26 AM   #87
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I was trying like in your live configs guide, where you showed to use the PC to CC converter

I think I have some strategy to lay this out, I mean the possibilities are insanely endless! But then each is also a compromise.

So here is a layout requested at the Bias FX forum:

8 pedals to pick patches, consisting of three basic preamp sounds
1 switch for tuner
1 switch for tap tempo
2 expression pedal
Wah on audio input channel with auto engage and a message to reset the wah at the deactivation command of each patch

If I stick the expressions on channel two and the rest as PC's on channel 1, I can use the PC to CC converter and do ok, except for the tap tempo. I could put the tap tempo button on another channel, by reprogramming the pedal board I suppose. I need to look into exactly how to set ďMIDItoReaControlPathĒ to make the most of it, I wish there were a limiting number so I could set it to only the first 8 cc's...actually, maybe I can...I should get a piece of paper and try to understand the two midi paths as you have described them.
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:55 AM   #88
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Ok, so it seems like, if I'm testing this right and understanding you right,

Control path goes to:
Learn
Actions
SWS Live Configs

Standard MIDI path goes to:
Parameter Modulation

I'm getting really confused in that it seems like I need the expression pedals to go to both the control path and the standard MIDI path

I definitely need them to be able to control actions, it has to, for example, pedal the wah (learn from control path, though I supposed I could do it in parameter modulation instead), and also has to turn on and off the wah (standard midi path)
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:57 AM   #89
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I have tested with the settings spelled out in your guide and I think this is how it works out

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Old 02-06-2018, 02:08 AM   #90
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So if I want to get CC's from channel 1 both to the control path AND the standard path, what is the danger in setting MIDItoReaControlPath "Route to standard MIDI path" to "Matching 1 and 2"?

I would then program my pedalboard all on channel 1 to be PC buttons 1-4 and 6-10, and set pedal 5 to CC#5, pedal 10 to cc#10 and the expression pedals to CC#27 and CC#7

I'm still left with the problem of switching mixer presets in JS 8 channel Mixer with PC commands, but I suppose I could do that on channel 2?
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:48 AM   #91
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Are the sws live configs saved per RPP?
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:09 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Control path goes to:
Learn
Actions
SWS Live Configs

Standard MIDI path goes to:
Parameter Modulation
And to the Midi inputs of the plugins
(Moreover there are many "Standard Midi streams" one in each track's FX chain, plus 16 "global" Midi Buses (of course each Stream with 16 Midi-channels).

In fact LiveConfigs seems to somehow use the "Action" mechanism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I'm getting really confused in that it seems like I need the expression pedals to go to both the control path and the standard MIDI path
That (avoiding such confusion) is why I (and the Guide) suggest (for a not really simple setup) not to use the external input of the control Path ("control" checkbox in the Midi device), but to use a dedicated track with clean Midi input for such a controller, do all necessary preprocessing in JSFXes and then MidiToReaControlPath to send the appropriate messages to LiveConfigs.

Theoretically messages routed by MidiToReaControlPath also can be learned to actions, but I did not yet see any necessity to do that, as for parameter modulation, it usually is more versatile and more "clean" to route the midi messages to the audio track and have either the plugin digest such messages, use "Parameter modulation" or use ReaControlMidi to convert a midi message in a modulation source for a plugin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I definitely need them to be able to control actions, it has to, for example, pedal the wah (learn from control path, though I supposed I could do it in parameter modulation instead), and also has to turn on and off the wah (standard midi path)
I don't see why it should not be possible to use the "parameter Modulation" instead of "learn" for this plugin parameter or - if it adheres to that just send the midi message to the plugin itself. Then you simply need to route the Midi to that track by standard reaper means.

I do this all the time.
My Live setup uses 64 instances of a JSFX that stores some 20 parameters (CC values) with potential parameters for any Patch. These parameters are sent to the track that is unmuted by LiveConfigs. Once running, these patch parameters can be modified by the sliders and rotaries on the controller. Moreover the Breath controller, Volume pedals, ... send live CC messages to the tracks. The CCs in the track go either directly to plugins that can internally learn them or are associated to Parameter Modulation or to ReaControlMidi to do it's stuff.

-Michael

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Old 02-06-2018, 08:18 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Are the sws live configs saved per RPP?
Yep.
-Michael
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:18 AM   #94
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Default Thank you !

Hi Pipe,

It was a great experience to work with you on this issue.

You have proven to be tough enough to really work on getting the things done that you want to make happen within Reaper, instead of complaining that Reaper does not provide exactly your kind of of requirement out of the box.

You took the place of a musician and an experienced Reaper user to complement my programmer's point of view, not giving up on my maybe sometimes overly sophisticated wording.

And you are competent enough to ask the right questions (even if I sometimes did not get your meaning right away).

Hence, based on this thread I'll be able updated the LiveConfigs User Guide with more useful and hopefully understandable information. When I have a new version I'll ask you to read it and suggest any improvement that comes in mind. Of course I'll be happy to include any additional suggestion you can come up with right now.

Thanks again,
-Michael
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Old 02-06-2018, 12:49 PM   #95
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This is seriously the most exciting time fo me in audio technology since me Justin and Christophe first started talking about the viability of a possible new program called ďREAPER ď

Even back then I imagined it as a giant guitar rack someday, but the way presets worked made me a bit skeptical and I beeen in the middle of about ten years of not really playing guitar much anymore except to fix things on albums.

But today, itís doing more than I could have imagined back then and Iím in a band now, perfect timing!

I would have given up trying this about 50 times already if you hadnít stuck with me.

So it sounds like what I should be doing is having two live midi inputs, the one I have now for controlling live configs, and another for my cc pedals and expression pedals for controlling actions and fx parameters?

The second midi input could, if Iím looking at miditoreacontrolpath correctly, mimic the behavior you get by choosing enabled+input in prefs

It seems like I could leave everything on the same midi channel, chose channel 1, cc and set both sliders to matching 1&2. If it makes any trouble, I could run channel converter and set that stuff to channel 2

Iím trying to avoid having to do too much custom programming on the pedalboard, as it makes it difficult then to use the pedal with other devices. But resource use is also a big factor (I think, but so far not going near 5% cpu, but wanting to be paranoid safe)

Do you think thereís actually a way I could have thru Jsfx or something to have that first channel going to sws live configs ignore pc 5 and pc 10?

After that Iím mostly concentrating on figuring simple ways to switch series and parallel paths in and out thru actions, o parallel configs, perhaps by putting the first config in a folder and using that folder track as the input source for the second config


The possibilities are insane! Bob Bradshaw, seriously look out!!!!
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:21 PM   #96
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Hi dont wish to confuse matters but I find helgobosses realearn a more robust and tweakable alternative to miditoreacontrolpath -
It literally replaces it as a plugin.

I use it to make a dumb midi controller a bit cleverer
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:47 PM   #97
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I saw that thing, maybe thats what I should be using, but for 12 switches I'd have to run 12 of them right? Would that hurt my audio throughput for a live application?
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Old 02-06-2018, 02:49 PM   #98
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Sonoma Wireworks just sent this over to test out, I'll try and run SWS Live Configs from it as well, pretty awesome!
As their StudioJack Mini has become my main iOS interface, I have had a lot of time to test their software and hardware functionality and it passes with flying colors, I'd expect the same and more from this and will keep you posted.

This device has separate guitar and mic inputs, a 1/4" TRS headphone out and, get this

Two line outs on SEPARATE 1/4"s!

4 midi switches, plus an expression input
5 MIDI CC knobs for quickly adjusting gain and tone per program on the fly

Pass thru charging on a REAL 9v adapter (the regular 2.1mm jack you can find anywhere)

As this also has ASIO drivers, this to me is the Cadilac of iOS interfaces and will be no slouch for desktop/laptop duties as well. Very handy all in one package that I will be putting through its paces shortly




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Old 02-06-2018, 03:00 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
Hi dont wish to confuse matters but I find helgobosses realearn a more robust and tweakable alternative to miditoreacontrolpath -
It literally replaces it as a plugin.

I use it to make a dumb midi controller a bit cleverer
HOLY CRAP this thing is powerful!!!!

How do I know if its going to standard path or control path?

It looks like it can pretty much handle anything I need, in one single instance, gonna geek out on it now
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:23 PM   #100
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Ben, I dont see how to send ReaLearn to SWS Live Configs.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:27 PM   #101
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Still setting it up since moved to Mac, but presuming its all control path unless you pass through to track.
I got it to tailor sensitivity of rotary encoders for parameter tweaks and can use a dumb button to create faux 'banks', is pretty comprehensive.

Glad if mention is a help.

Btw one of my uh 'vintage' honukele mics has a big ass AC hum, can you fix this in a reply !?

Going to open it up for a nose. Its sister is quiet btw.

Edit: re question above, I would have thought if in same 'place' as reacontrol path was it would be ok, not combined the two myself - maybe it's 100% control so via learn in live configs.
section?

Would need to look as guessing at mo.
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:34 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
But resource use is also a big factor (I think, but so far not going near 5% cpu, but wanting to be paranoid safe)
The midi processing will never use up any noticeable CPU.
-Michael
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:36 PM   #103
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Gack, let me look at the schematic, assuming no wire is loose.

Someone here went crazy and swapped out all the caps for panasonics and got rid of most of the circuit and did 1% everything. I swear I can't hear the difference, but it sure is easier to swap parts out that way
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:39 PM   #104
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Aside from figuring out exactly how to get what MIDI I want where, my biggest issue with SWS Live Configs are the audio dropouts when switching, compared to SWS restore solo and mute states, which does instant switching.

If there's a way to deal with that, I would be in hog heaven

Gonna try a second midi track for the control stuff and see how it goes
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Old 02-06-2018, 03:50 PM   #105
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Honestly, and I have to do more testing, but for my purposes, I'm not seeing a problem with setting both switches in midi to recontrol path to matching 1&2 and just having the 1 midi input track...if it makes trouble, I'll revisit, but for now, tons of testing to do!
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:04 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Aside from figuring out exactly how to get what MIDI I want where, my biggest issue with SWS Live Configs are the audio dropouts when switching, compared to SWS restore solo and mute states, which does instant switching.
Sorry. I don't understand your wording. As a result of what activity exactly do the said audio dropouts happen ?

(Of course you should avoid using hardware switches just to detect the value of a CC that is seen by the software, anyway. Do dance with the hogs !)

-Michael

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Old 02-07-2018, 12:32 PM   #107
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One of the dropouts is when changing rows, I guess rows is the right term for what would be the equivalent of a patch or preset on a Bradshaw board.

The fade knob on the top right can change it to longer dropout or shorter dropout, but shorter times glitch while still dropping out.

If I do the equivalent of rows, by switching mute groups using ď Sws restore mute and solo state of all tracks ďĒ there is no dropout.

There is some sort of mute on row switching whether or not mute all but active track is checked in options. I think itís the send but I canít remember now

Ideally, I would rather have it crossfade between rows when switching

Switching fx presets specified on the row can of course take time just because of the plugins may take time.

Switching track fx chains certainly drops out.

Switching fx presets temporarily muted either the send or return to that track, I canít remember which, not sure if switching fx chains does

Sws live configs is convenient to me mostly because it has the activate and deactivate actions, otherwise, Sws restore mute and solo state to all tracks seems much better and easier to deal with. I wish they could be combined benefits wise
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:19 PM   #108
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Whats the difference between apply and preload configs?
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:09 PM   #109
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I'm really starting to think I'd just love a spreadsheet similar to SWS Live configs, that simply allowed an action to (I think) exclusively select each row, and then have several columns of activate actions and several columns of deactivate actions
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:43 PM   #110
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"rows": The original Guide speaks of "configs for this, but tome this is rather ambiguous. I mostly think "lines", but "rows" (as in a spreadsheet" seems very appropriate.

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There is some sort of mute on row switching whether or not mute all but active track is checked in options. I think it’s the send but I can’t remember now
Did you configure Reaper to stall muted tracks ? This is recommended in the LiveConfig Guide to save the CPU resources for these tracks. But maybe in your case it would be better to uncheck this.

-Michael
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:44 PM   #111
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Quote:
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Whats the difference between apply and preload configs?
I never found out what the "preload" thing is all about. But the name suggests that is has to do with switching latency/dropouts.

-Michael
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Old 02-07-2018, 03:51 PM   #112
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Quote:
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I'm really starting to think I'd just love a spreadsheet similar to SWS Live configs, that simply allowed an action to (I think) exclusively select each row, and then have several columns of activate actions and several columns of deactivate actions
If you configure LiveConfigs not to do the mute / unmute thing, it still fires an action on enter and leave. AFAIK, you can use an action to fire a couple of other actions with standard Reaper means.

-Michael
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Old 02-07-2018, 04:57 PM   #113
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That's true. It means I have to stick macros in there, but really, maybe that's not so bad
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Old 02-07-2018, 07:44 PM   #114
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If we could make it so we can midi learn the rows, this would be so so so much better, I bet theres a way to finnaegle JS MIDI mapping stuff to make it work though
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:25 PM   #115
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Quote:
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That's true. It means I have to stick macros in there, but really, maybe that's not so bad
Nonetheless enhancing LiveConfigs to be able to fire multiple actions instead of a single one might be a good idea.

Another (IMHO) good idea to allow for enhanced functionality when entering a row, would be to be able to link multiple pages directly instead of needing to do that via assigning the appropriate action to row-enter.

And of course you have a point that allowing for (additionally) directly "learning" rows, instead of the fixed assignment of a row to the CC value, might come handy in certain situations. But OTOH this easily could be done by an especially tailored JSFX that accompanies a (hopefully some day provided in a comprehensive way via ReaPack) "LiveSetup" installation kit.

-Michael (I am considering to try to do some maintenance / programming work on LiveConfigs some day, hence collecting ideas.)

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Old 02-08-2018, 12:27 AM   #116
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The real murder here is using cc values to do the rows, I mean its making me decide on not being able to use my pedalboard for other things, looking into piz's stuff for a way to switch that out

Learning the rows would be awesome. Picking rows in another config with the same command would be awesome, but I bet there's a way around that too

Still, I am happier with this setup than I have ever been in my life, so its just a matter of getting a bit more figured, but its awesome
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Old 02-08-2018, 12:59 AM   #117
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Im thinking about setting my pedalboard up where bottom 5 rows are CC's and top 5 are PC's, then I can use it with my other gear fine. I can then, I guess, use 5 instances of piz's MidiConvert3 to turn the bottom 5 into PC's then use PC to CC converter, not sure how much stress that would put on everything
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:45 AM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
The real murder here is using cc values to do the rows, I mean its making me decide on not being able to use my pedalboard for other things,
As said, this is easy by doing the conversion to a "flat" CC design in a JFX and send that to LiveConfigs by MidiToReaControlPath. (Disabling the Control Path in the Midi device.)

-Michael
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:33 PM   #119
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I donít think I found a jsfx to convert say 5 cc#ís to five different values on the same cc#. I think I could with 5 of them, which may not actually be that bad cpu wise...they all seem to report back 0.0%
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Old 02-08-2018, 02:48 PM   #120
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I don’t think I found a jsfx to convert say 5 cc#’s to five different values on the same cc#.
As said this is easy to do. Of course I'll do it for you if you want me to.

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