Old 02-02-2018, 02:57 AM   #1
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Default SWS Live Configs?

Anyone know of an updated, step by step guide for SWS Live Configs?
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:30 AM   #2
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Anyone know of an updated, step by step guide for SWS Live Configs?
I wrote one -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

You also might want to search the Forum for "LiveConfigs" to get a lot more information on that issue.

-Michael
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:19 PM   #3
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Thank you so much! Do I have this right that you switch tracks on live configs by sending different values of the same cc ? That seems insane! Can that be changed to different ccs instead?
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:30 PM   #4
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I wrote one -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

You also might want to search the Forum for "LiveConfigs" to get a lot more information on that issue.

-Michael


Nice.

Thx.
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Old 02-02-2018, 02:59 PM   #5
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Thank you so much! Do I have this right that you switch tracks on live configs by sending different values of the same cc ? That seems insane! Can that be changed to different ccs instead?
LiveConfifs uses one CC per "Config" (a page of 8 working in parallel, if configured).

On receive of a CC value it will select one (of 128 ) lines on that page.

Same can be configured to unmute one track (and mute all others that are mentioned on that page) and optionally for more stuff (call a Reaper Action, push presets to plugins, ...)

I use LiveConfigs as a base of a rather complex setup of JSFXes. This receive midi messages and send out CCs to LiveConfigs when appropriate, Of course you easily can do a JSFX that translates CC numbers to values of a single CC.

-Michael

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Old 02-02-2018, 03:31 PM   #6
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I like SWS snapshots for this, as it will reset the fx chain if you say turned on the wah, but I find it is impossible to update your track settings because you would need to recall and resave every single snapshot with the new settings any time you change anything. I haven't found a way around that

I am now trying with SWS mute slots instead, and it seems to be working extremely well and the switching is instant. I'm having a little trouble getting it so that I can have reatune on and in an open window, which was an easy thign to do with SWS snapshots. The other trouble I'm having is having the say, wah turned off when I reload the channel. SWS Snapshots does this perfectly, but I cant figure out a way to say "send CC#10 value 0 on load"

I'll try SWS Live configs again

So should I be doing each sound on a different config? I really am sketched about the idea of using CC values of the same controller for switching, I'm not sure of the utility of that

I'm still very confused even with that guide
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Old 02-02-2018, 03:54 PM   #7
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Is there a sample RPP of this anywhere?
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:01 PM   #8
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Appropriately enough for groundhog Day... May be too simplistic for your aim but may assist.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...7914&postcount

Which was a reply to you!

It is easy to forget how these tools work tho! I for example need a refresh on super 8..
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Old 02-02-2018, 04:32 PM   #9
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thank you !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29BoqCMRBFk
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:30 AM   #10
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So should I be doing each sound on a different config?
For clearness I avoid the term "Configs", as LiveConfigs provides eight "pages" with 128 "lines" each.

LiveConfigs does not force a dedicated way to use these, but is very flexible.

In my Live playing setup, I use a page for each of my two keyboards and a line for each of the patches (sounds) that I defined for that keyboard.

This means that I can select the patch to be played completely indecently for the keyboards. This might or might not be appropriate regarding the performance style intended.


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I really am sketched about the idea of using CC values of the same controller for switching, I'm not sure of the utility of that
The original author is a guitarist and he had a pedal board that sent different values for the same CC when pressing a button. So that messages could be fed directly into the "Reaper Control Path" by checking the "control" box in the midi device setting. (As the Midi standard suggests) Keyboards use Program Change events for such purpose, so you need a JSFX and the "MidiToReaControlPath" VST to create the correct CCs for LiveConfigs (See guide).

Recently I got an XTouch Compact controller board to sit beside the smaller one of the keyboards (I did poste a picture in the forum some time ago). Now the input to the JSFX system, is no longer Program change (from the keyboards) but CCs from the XTouch (I could configure the XTouch to send anything I like, bit I did stay with the default here).

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I'm still very confused even with that guide
This is still a work in progress. Please come back with dedicated questions, if possible. I'll try to improve the text.

BTW.: As you are a very honorable forum user (nearly 12,000 posts), is there a way you can support my long standing request to install a dedicated subforum for "Reaper Live Usage". IMHO this would be very appropriate.


-Michael

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Old 02-03-2018, 05:40 AM   #11
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Iíll see what I can do about that. Iím going to try and have a very long and detailed talk with Justin about midi in reaper in general very soon. I have a feeling this will be very nostalgic for both of us, it really feels like the birth of reaper again for me.

I really really really am not getting how to use live configs even in the slightest little bit

I was able with saws solo and mute slots to get my pedalboard to do about 90% where I want it to get to and with zero switching delay, but holy crap man, it meant programming the pedalboard a very whacky way and seriously hacking the actions into giant unwieldy macros, tanking my key prefs and still being quite sketched about how it works.

I will try live configs again tomorrow, I guess I could program my pedal board to be 1 cc with 10 different values to start with if thatís how it needs to go.

I still donít get the basic premise. Do I make ten tracks that by themselves are the different sounds Iíd like?

There are some fx toggling and stuff that I need to do, like the wah.

It seems like loading and unloading presets would take way too much time for switching, but for the wah for instance, I need it toggled off when I select a new track, I have a very kludgy way to do that right now but I donít know how Iíd do that with live configs
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:52 AM   #12
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I guess I could program my pedal board to be 1 cc with 10 different values
Not really necessary.
As rather common with Keyboards that send Program Change messages, you can do the same with the data coming from the Pedal Board:

- Use a dedicated track to receive the Midi from the Pedal board
- Do a JSFX that converts whatever data the pedal board sends to a single CC with multiple values
- use MidiToReaControlPath to send these CC messages to LiveConfigs
- have LiveConfigs Learn this CC for one of it's pages.

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Do I make ten tracks that by themselves are the different sounds I’d like?
This is one option you have.
You also can use a single track (even nowhere define a track at all in LiveConfigs, so it will not touch the mute/unmute stuff at all) and have LiveConfigs push 10 different sets of presets to your VSTs (affecting all of them or just some of them ) you have in your audio track
Or you can use a combination of this (this is what I do): use less than 10 tracks (defining the same track in multiple lines of a LiveConfigs page) and modify the effect settings appropriately.

On top of that, there is yet another option (I use this a lot for my VSTis). If the effect pluginss themselves accept Midi messages, you can do a JSFX that sends out such messages (usually CCs, here set to another midi channel than used for LiveConfigs) when a message from the pedal board is received. Now in Reaper this Midi channel is routed to the track(s) that hold the audio plugins.

-Michael

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Old 02-03-2018, 11:31 AM   #13
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- have LiveConfigs Learn this CC for one of it's pages.

-Michael
I donít get this part at all. The only thing I can see how to get it to learn the cc for a single config but not how to switch inside it
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Old 02-03-2018, 11:36 AM   #14
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This is one option you have.
You also can use a single track (even nowhere define a track at all in LiveConfigs, so it will not touch the mute/unmute stuff at all) and have LiveConfigs push 10 different sets of presets to your VSTs (affecting all of them or just some of them ) you have in your audio track
The plugins Iím using take way way way too long to load or when switching presets to do it this way

Quote:

Or you can use a combination of this (this is what I do): use less than 10 tracks (defining the same track in multiple lines of a LiveConfigs page) and modify the effect settings appropriately.

-Michael
I think that is what Iím trying to get it to do, when I get to work, Iíll try this again.
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Old 02-03-2018, 12:39 PM   #15
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I don’t get this part at all. The only thing I can see how to get it to learn the cc for a single config but not how to switch inside it
LiveConfigs learns the Midi channel and the CC # and associates it with the LiveConfigs page you selected.

This done, with any Midi CC coming to it with that channel and CC #, it activates the line on that page according to the CC value (0 ... 127).

-Michael

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Old 02-03-2018, 12:48 PM   #16
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The plugins I’m using take way way way too long to load or when switching presets to do it this way
Usually plugins don't take any time when pushing presets to them. This just changes VST parameters.

Samplers might indeed load a new sample library. That is why with Kontakt I use instrument banks that are loaded when loading the Reaper project.

Maybe you use Convolution engines that use large impulse files, though.

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:06 PM   #17
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For bias fx switching presets or reloading one for instance, can take 5-10 seconds before its playing audio again, a lot of these things are sketchy that way, but Iíll give it a shot.

Kind of in shock at the types of midi functions that arenít available in reaper. Hopefully I can get some time to talk to Justin in the next few days,but in general, hereís some things I canít seem to find, so please tell me if Iím wrong so I donít waste his time on any we can already do

1. Canít seem to specify what values turn on or off many of the functions like bypass...seems they can toggle, but you canít say for instance 0is off 65 is on.

2. Related I canít seem to find polarity for switches and knobs under midi

3. Natively switch presets under midi

4. Send a midi cc from an action

5. Directly specify a midi message to assign to an action or function, though you can midi learn it.

6. Once an action is learned with midi assigned to it, canít edit the values associated with different states of the action.
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:15 PM   #18
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... switching presets or reloading ...
These are completely different things. reloading might take long while pushing presets might go on the fly (as said: here only automation parameters get modified). Please do a test before deciding !

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:23 PM   #19
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1. Canít seem to specify what values turn on or off many of the functions like bypass...seems they can toggle, but you canít say for instance 0is off 65 is on.
What exactly has this to do with Midi ? What are you trying to accomplish ?

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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
2. Related I canít seem to find polarity for switches and knobs under midi
What switches and knobs ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
3. Natively switch presets under midi
I have no idea what you mean by this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
4. Send a midi cc from an action
Why would you want to do this and where do you want to send it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
5. Directly specify a midi message to assign to an action or function, though you can midi learn it.
I don't see much sense in this.

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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
6. Once an action is learned with midi assigned to it, canít edit the values associated with different states of the action.
I did not try this. But once you use LiveConfigs you can have same trigger the action you want instead of directly learning the midi event to the action. To me this seems like a lot more useful.

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:58 PM   #20
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What exactly has this to do with Midi ? What are you trying to accomplish ?
For switching say, the bypass of a plugin. I'm using this for guitar, so a lot of stuff is going to be turning on and off stompboxes

Quote:
What switches and knobs ?
Functions in reaper like muting and unmuting receives, CC controllable functions in plugins, etc.

Quote:
I have no idea what you mean by this.
Using MIDI to switch user created presets, like the *.rpl. Seems like SWS Live Configs can do this, but I can't find it natively. This particular one was something we talked about a lot before REAPER 1 came out, and it seemed like it really wasn't something that made a whole lot of sense at the time, but now it does

Quote:
Why would you want to do this and where do you want to send it ?
I would like to send it to specific plugins in a track to say turn off a stomp I had turned on earlier so that when I switch to a different sound, when I come back to the original sound, that stomp is off as it was in the default. VERY useful, something that most of the Rack processors used for guitar FX can do, critically useful, for many many many guitarists, kind of like one of those "do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, go directly to jail" type of things.

I realize there are probably other ways to do this, but this seems to me to be something very desirable.

Quote:
I don't see much sense in this.
For instance, many pedalboards can simultaneously send more than one midi message with one press, you want to make sure you are using the right one to control this function. Or just manually switching it to hear a different message
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:59 PM   #21
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I'm reprogramming my pedalboard right now to directly send CC's so I'll be trying live configs again in a sec
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:11 PM   #22
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I'm reprogramming my pedalboard right now to directly send CC's
As mentioned above: not really necessary.

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:15 PM   #23
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As mentioned above: not really necessary.

-Michael
Trying to run as few plugs as possible, but some success!

I got it to switch.

Doing it by switching fx presets turns out to be way too slow, but I'm going to try it by track now
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:19 PM   #24
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There's a much longer delay when switching tracks thru live configs than when using sws mute group slots, not sure what I can do to fix this.

But I see a deactivate action, maybe I can somehow have this unmute the sends to a delay track or something?
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:28 PM   #25
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For switching say, the bypass of a plugin. I'm using this for guitar, so a lot of stuff is going to be turning on and off stompboxes
The "bypass" in the FX chain to me is a configuration help, but not something to be used for live switching. I can imagine several decent ways to create a bypass switch: use multiple channels ("pin routing") in the FX chain and find or do a switcher JSFX selecting the input denoted by a slider and now pushing a setup to that JSFX will do the switching. Or do appropriate audio routing to several tracks and have LiveConfigs mute / unmute those.


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Functions in reaper like muting and unmuting receives, CC controllable functions in plugins, etc.
This is exactly what LiveConfigs is provided for. (CC controllable function: see the User Guide "SliderToPS" of course that plugin can be enhanced to send CCs. But usually CCs in plugins are available as VST parameters (automation) as well and hence can be used by pushing a setup.)


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Using MIDI to switch user created presets, like the *.rpl.
This is exactly what LiveConfigs is provided for.


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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I would like to send it to specific plugins
JSFXes can create any midi messages and Reaper can route them wherever you want.


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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
I realize there are probably other ways to do this, but this seems to me to be something very desirable.
A better support for Live playing in Reaper indeed would be very desirable (starting with installing a dedicated forum).

But I am not a friend of requesting to bloat the basic Reaper DAW with features dedicated to a certain kind of usage (such as Live playing, Mastering, controlling Lighting equipment, ... Reaper happily is able to be enhanced by 3rd party add-ons that support this (here: LiveConfigs).

Of course it would be nice if somebody would come up with an even more comprehensive "Live Tool Kit" (e.g. an enhanceable project template, a well defined configuration workflow supported by some scripts, a set of JSFXes dedicated to that purpose, documentation, ...), as LiveConfigs can provide perfect results, but setting it up to work in a complex environment (such as mine) really needs a decent effort.


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For instance, many pedalboards can simultaneously send more than one midi message with one press,
Obviously this is not needed and should be switched off when using LiveConfigs, as this would be the source of major confusion.

-Michael

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Old 02-03-2018, 02:28 PM   #26
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Alright, some of this is really starting to work, thanks for all this help!

Now I'm confused on some other stuff.

For instance, I would like to have slot 9 be my tuner preset, so when I press it, all tracks mute (or just no output to master is ok), ReaTune unbypasses on the audio input track and floats the fx window. When I select any other controller value slot, I want that to go away and load the associated track. How would you do this?

SOme of the switches I would like to simply turn on of off say a delay track and route whatever the current track is to that (or I could have the delay have its receives unmuted) but still stay on whichever track I was on when I selected it.
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:31 PM   #27
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For things like delay and harmonizer, I think I'd actually like these to be able to stomp on and off, rather than switching out to another preset to turn them off, but maybe its ok either way
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:33 PM   #28
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Starting to think I probably want a mixer at the end of this whole chain, that I could switch with to different FX presets, but I don't see a way to affect more than one track at once with Live configs
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:44 PM   #29
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How would you do this?
I have exactly no idea. My understanding of a Live setup is that no Monitor is attached to the "embedded" computer that runs Reaper.

Maybe there are ways to have LiveConfigs manage the Reaper GUI, but I am not aware of such.

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:47 PM   #30
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(or I could have the delay have its receives unmuted) but still stay on whichever track I was on when I selected it.
Of course this should be possible. Maybe you in fact do need an audio switcher JSFX. (If you don't find one or can do one yourself, I'll do one for you).

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:49 PM   #31
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Starting to think...
Using LiveConfigs plus some JSFXes, you can do very sophisticated things. So you should first learn about the possibilities and then carefully do a plan exactly what kind of instrument you want to play.

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:53 PM   #32
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I don't see a way to affect more than one track at once with Live configs
I did not try, but is should be possible to use multiple LiveConfig pages for this (at least when sending CCs for both of them either directly by the pedal board or by doing an appropriate JSFX to multiply the CC messages).

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 02:55 PM   #33
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I have exactly no idea. My understanding of a Live setup is that no Monitor is attached to the "embedded" computer that runs Reaper.

Maybe there are ways to have LiveConfigs manage the Reaper GUI, but I am not aware of such.

-Michael
This is why we're having trouble communicating exact stuff, I'm looking to replace an iPad as the rack, with a computer as the rack, I definitely want the same GUI abilities

I think I'm looking at this as a very different perspective as a rack mount guitar player type, pretty much trying to make this like an Axe FX or old digitech or whatever

But I was able to get some of it working! Pretty happy about that, activate deactivate makes it WAY easier than the zillions of actions I had to trigger! Really glad you stuck through this with me, I think I can get this going

Can you think of a way to affect other tracks without leaving the track you are on? Maybe it can do actions without having a track specified....This seems REALLy powerful, as long as I can get my imagination correct

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Old 02-03-2018, 02:58 PM   #34
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Can you think of a way to affect other tracks without leaving the track you are on?
Yep. Using multiple pages in LiveConfigs in parallel.

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"Custom Tuner Float"
Seemingly you were able to find a way to manage the GUI by LiveConfigs.

Great ! I might want to use something like this some day, as I am searching for a small display to attach to the XTouch controller showing the name of the Patches I selected for the upper and the lower keyboard.

-Michael

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Old 02-03-2018, 03:03 PM   #35
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Yep. Using multiple pages in LiveConfigs in parallel.
But I dont necessarily want any input routing going on, just controlling of the FX presets of say a JS Mixer
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:08 PM   #36
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Man if I could make an action to send a CC, I would seriously be set here I think.

I suppose I could make every track a giant CPU munching chain and switch between them, but that really sounds like a bad idea to me
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:10 PM   #37
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But I dont necessarily want any input routing going on, just controlling of the FX presets of say a JS Mixer
You can set Options->"Mute all but the selected track" per LiveConfigs page. So you can use one page mute/unmute your tracks and another to push presets etc.

-Michael
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:18 PM   #38
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It seems not to be possible to learn the same midi channel CC # to two Pages at the same time.

LiveConfigs binding to Midi seems to be done by a Reaper thet in fact "learns" the binding. Now LiveConfigs can fire an action when a line is selcted. So it might be possible to use the action defined in one page to set the line in another page. (But I am not fluent with this actions stuff..)

...

This in fact seems to work. I set the action "LiveConfig #2 apply config" in LiveConfig page #1 and now page #2 switches to the same line as page #1.

I suppose you can do very advanced stuff when using LiveConfigs actions.

-Michael

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Old 02-03-2018, 03:22 PM   #39
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I can find actions to load next and previous preset, but not directly load a preset number. I think I would like to have a mixer before the master and be able to select presets in it
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:25 PM   #40
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It seems not to be possible to learn the same midi channel CC # to two Pages at the same time.

LiveConfigs binding to Midi seems to be done by a Reaper thet in fact "learns" the binding. Now LiveConfigs can fire an action when a line is selcted. So it might be possible to use the action defined in one page to set the line in another page. (But I am not fluent with this actions stuff..)

-Michael
Ahhh bummer this is exactly what I was going to try and do for the mixer, lemme see if I can't get one of those piz plugins to do it
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