Old 05-22-2016, 02:40 AM   #1
mschnell
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Default Slow patch change with Kontakt

I use Reaper to host VSTis for live performing with masterkeyboards.

Many of my sounds are NI Kontakt based.

I use SWS "LiveConfigs" to select the patch I want to play by pressing a "program change" button on the masterkeyboard.

This does work like charm (no problems yet using it in rehearsal sessions and on stage).

For the Kontakt based instruments, I use single track having LiveConfig load a new set of FX settings to change the patch.

I do know that I instead could use multiple tracks with Kontakt permanently loaded and have LiveConfig mute/unmute these tracks, but as there are a lot different Kontakt based patches, that would result in lots of Kontakt instances permanently loaded and I fear that this might result in too high memory usage. I might be inclined to set up an alternate project in case there is no simple solution and somebody recommends this.

The problem I see is that loading a new Kontakt base patch takes at least seven seconds before the first note can be played. This happens as well when staying in the same track (with the Kontakt instance) as when changing from another track (by mute/unmute) that features some other sound engine.

I am rather sure that this behavior did not have been that way when I first configured the Reaper project, but had been introduced by some update of Reaper, SWS, Kontakt or my project settings.

I use a decently fast system (i7 4*2 GHz, 16 Gig RAM, SSD, Win7 64 Bit tweaked for realitime).

Any ideas ?

Thanks a lot !
-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 05-22-2016 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 05-22-2016, 04:13 AM   #2
EvilDragon
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Why not use a single Kontakt instance active at all times then send program changes to it, using Kontakt's instrument banks? I'd run it in a separate project so that it's always available (or perhaps even standalone, or in VEPro if you have it).
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Old 05-22-2016, 07:31 AM   #3
mschnell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Why not use a single Kontakt instance active at all times then send program changes to it, using Kontakt's instrument banks?
I could do an instrument bank in Kontakt that features the patches I want to use.

This is what I did before I used Reaper and just ran the stand alone Kontakt player.

But with Reaper, I now am able to use as well Kontakt based instruments as several more VSTis and I can use additional effects in the signal chain that also are assigned with new parameters when the SWS LiveConfig "Line" (associated with a program change no) is selected.

At that point, LiveConfig can push new parameter sets onto selected plugins in the appropriate track (this is what I do). It also can activate a Reaper action (I did not try this yet).

I do know, that Kontakt can select a patch from an instrument bank when it receives a program change message. I don't know (yet) if/how I can make LiveConfigs issue (nothing but) a "program change" command (via midi or as a plugin parameter) to the running Kontakt instance and not modify all the other plugin parameters (which I assume triggers the huge delay).

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I'd run it in a separate project so that it's always available (or perhaps even standalone, or in VEPro if you have it).
LiveConfigs in a single Reaper project perfectly provides everything I need to use Reaper as a live playing tool. The said delay is the only issue I am facing right now.
I don't know what you mean by "a seperate project". How can multiple projects be combined ?


Thanks for your thoughts !

-Michael
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Old 05-22-2016, 02:03 PM   #4
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I seem to have found that after loading a bank (instead of a single instrument), the Kontakt5 VSTi provides all parameters of each instrument in the bank as VST parameters, but not a parameter that allows for activating an instrument in the bank. Hence the bank based patch switch can't easily be accessed by SWS LiveConfigs.

I don't now (yet) if/how it is possible to send a program change midi message to a dedicated track by a Reaper action (AFAIK, LiveConfigs is able to fire any Reaper Action when changing the patch) and with this activate a patch in a Kontakt player bank. This would be the opposite functionality of what MidiToReaControlPath provides (Which I use to have the program change midi messages from the masterkeyboard make SWS LiveConfigs to the patch switch).

-Michael
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:04 PM   #5
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An idea might be to create a JSFX that sends out a midi Program Change event when a slider is moved. The midi output from the plugin can be routed to Kontakt.

Now a Reaper action can can load a parameter set for this plugin and hence move the slider.

What do you think ?

Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:29 PM   #6
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Yep, that'd work. You don't even need a JS effect, just use ReaControlMIDI (program change dropdown menu is, surprisingly, automatable).
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:02 PM   #7
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Thanks for the tip. It's always surprising to find what comes with Reaper just out of the box

IMHO they simply should provide "MidiToReaControlPath" and "PCtoCC" in the box as well to allow for easy automation (e.g. with SWS "LiveConfigs").

Thanks again,
-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 05-24-2016 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:08 AM   #8
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I seem to have found that ReaControlMidi only sends CC messages but not Program Change message.

So I did a JSFX. It's just some 5 lines of code.

-Michael
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Old 05-24-2016, 09:44 AM   #9
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It sure sends program changes as well. Look at the top - Bank/Program Change. Load General MIDI bank (comes with Reaper) and then you can automate the Program dropdown!

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Old 05-24-2016, 01:55 PM   #10
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Nice !

Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 05-24-2016, 02:32 PM   #11
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BTW.: triggering the instrument bank program switch that way works perfectly and now there is no delay between the patches any more.

Thanks again,
-Michael
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Old 05-26-2016, 04:35 AM   #12
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BTW/2.

Using an instrument bank instead of sending all parameters to the Kontakt VST g´features an additional benefit I do like a lot.

I routed some Masterkeyboard controllers via CC to Kontakt to set appropriate sound parameters. With the bank patch switching they stay in place when changing to another sound and going back, while with my old brute force method, these settings are reset to whatever value had been set when saving the Reaper project.

Thanks again,
-Michael
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Old 05-29-2016, 04:20 AM   #13
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I appropriately updated the enhanced Live Configs manual that I maintain.

-> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

-Michael

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