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Old 06-30-2013, 12:56 PM   #41
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I used the web based interface to do exactly this. It's an Aviom clone, but they can use any smart phone to control their monitor mix. You just need wifi enabled devices with web browsers.

I never use this though, as you have to use a mixer template to make it work and unless it's a case where everyone is using IEM's - otherwise I would never give control over the monitor wedges to musicians.

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I think this is partly the case but the understanding that I took away when I asked about controlling sends is that they don't have unique identifiers inside Reaper (they are identified as send 2 on track 4) so even if you do come up with a way to remotely control them all it will take to break it is to add a track or send.

Agreed regarding remote desktop. I am a network engineer so I spend my entire working life in remote sessions and frequently don't even know where on the planet the machine I am controlling is. But my drummer doesn't even have a smartphone or an internet connection so I'm not about to ask him to RDP to reaper and add a little more "me" to his headphone mix.

I really want to be able to give him (and everyone in the band) a simple USB controller with 8 buttons, knobs and faders mapped to specific sends that are uniquely identified so I can go nuts in Reaper and his controls are still locked in on his sends.
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Old 06-30-2013, 12:58 PM   #42
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In my case, I don't need wifi. Everyone is close enough that I can just use direct USB connections.

My understanding is that sends are not midi controllable in Reaper. I would love to be corrected.

Here is a thread I started on the topic just last week.
Just insert some tracks at the end of your current Reaper mixer and route any sends you want to automate through a track. That's what I've been doing. The right end of your mixing board just turns into a control matrix section.

Say you want to control the send from the VOCAL1 track to the TAPE-DELAY1 track:

Send at unity level from the VOCAL1 track to (a new track called) VOC-DELAY-SEND.
Make your choice of pre or post fader send here.

Uncheck Master/parent send on the VOC-DELAY-SEND track and add a post fader send from it to the TAPE-DELAY1 track.

Assign your MIDI controller to the volume fader for the VOC-DELAY-SEND track.

Last edited by serr; 06-30-2013 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #43
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It's allows you to create control in the form of a Web Page, so it is cross platform. What you want to do is already available with it as well, so you wouldn't have to write any code.

There is a link to it in my first response in this thread.
hmmm that link don't take me anywhere????
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Old 06-30-2013, 02:19 PM   #44
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hmmm that link don't take me anywhere????
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=78268
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:10 PM   #45
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much better thanks...

so yeah... that is pretty kewl... and handy somewhat

I have it working fine on the iPhone in the Volt Browser, which seems to be the one that actually will display properly...

so I just made that my default page for that browser and can get there nice and fast

I wonder what it would take to make the images that are used and displayed a little larger? any ideas?

hmmmm... just thinking out loud here so I 'could' iTeleport in to pc to load up a project, then exit, then run it somewhat from this www dll...

seem like this dll has lotta potential for a coder to make even more inclusive... but I'm too dumb to really know that

OH and PS: one free app that works very nicely is the free version of Team Viewer... I'd say it gives better control than iTeleport and it just works between all systems
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:31 PM   #46
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Holy criminy! How did you guys ever figure out how to connect all that gear to do what you need?????

Somebody should do a video on connections and how it is run. Would make a great series and you might make a little cash along the way... well, AFTER my percentage for the idea...
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:34 PM   #47
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Yes you can change the web pages, edit images etc...

As far as stuff that starts wit "I-", I'm aware of it's existence, but that's about it.

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Originally Posted by hopi View Post
much better thanks...

so yeah... that is pretty kewl... and handy somewhat

I have it working fine on the iPhone in the Volt Browser, which seems to be the one that actually will display properly...

so I just made that my default page for that browser and can get there nice and fast

I wonder what it would take to make the images that are used and displayed a little larger? any ideas?

hmmmm... just thinking out loud here so I 'could' iTeleport in to pc to load up a project, then exit, then run it somewhat from this www dll...

seem like this dll has lotta potential for a coder to make even more inclusive... but I'm too dumb to really know that

OH and PS: one free app that works very nicely is the free version of Team Viewer... I'd say it gives better control than iTeleport and it just works between all systems
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Old 06-30-2013, 08:39 PM   #48
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Holy criminy! How did you guys ever figure out how to connect all that gear to do what you need?????

Somebody should do a video on connections and how it is run. Would make a great series and you might make a little cash along the way... well, AFTER my percentage for the idea...
I've pretty much almost done that
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:16 AM   #49
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one free app that works very nicely is the free version of Team Viewer... I'd say it gives better control than iTeleport and it just works between all systems
I think iTeleport was the only remote desktop app available for the iPad 3 years ago. Looks like its time to demo the newer ones.

iTeleport gives you full control of everything. What else do you get with Team Viewer? It looks like it uses it's own VNC app that runs in the background instead of native VNC screen sharing. Is that right?

Last edited by serr; 07-01-2013 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #50
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serr.... both are very good... though I don't know about iPad stuff, just iPhone

Team Viewer is a complete cross platform thing that is unto itself.
Their free version is very useful to me for assisting or remote control of other systems.

When it's install on a given system, it gives you a ID number that is just for that system. And you can if desired, set a unique password for just that system.

On the system you are working from, you just enter that ID number and you'll be asked for the password as it connects.

What I like about it is that there is no other install or tweaking or port forwarding, etc.

It is as fast as anything else I've ever tried.

What does seem 'better' to me on the iPhone side is that the clarity of the zoomed in view seems better, and therefore more easy to control.

The only 'downside' is that when you end the session, it leaves a little 'thank you' window on the remote system... but that'a not a big deal to me.

IMO it's really nice of that dev to offer a free version since the first level pro version costs 750 bucks. [OUCH]

iTeleport has gone through a bunch of updates over the last years and it's good also. I don't like to use it with the google installer that lets you find other computers... I just set it up with TightVNC on the PC's that I want to remote control, and with a DNS name and port and then iTele on the iPhone. [crap... too many "i's"!] [It's a Rasta thing iI ]
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:27 PM   #51
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I'll have to go through these newer choices...

I don't use the iTeleport host app or any of those features. I just give it my computer's IP address and connect with a password over my own private network. I use the native VNC screen sharing. No 3rd party VNC clients.

So for this there's no tweaking or anything needed either. You can give it your computers static IP address and let it remember the password and then connecting just takes a second with no prompts.

Last edited by serr; 07-01-2013 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:36 PM   #52
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I'll have to go through these newer choices...

I don't use the iTeleport app or any of those features. I just give it my computer's IP address and connect with a password over my own private network. I use the native VNC screen sharing. No 3rd party VNC clients.

So for this there's no tweaking or anything needed either. You can give it your computers static IP address and let it remember the password and then connecting just takes a second with no prompts.
yes right understood but not for an iPhone to remote control a computer, eh?
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:41 PM   #53
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yes right understood but not for an iPhone to remote control a computer, eh?
As I understand it, iTeleport works exactly the same on both the iPad and iPhone.
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Old 07-01-2013, 04:34 PM   #54
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Ok, can you guys dumb it down for me? How do you get the sound from the stage to the computer and from the computer to the main and monitor speakers? Do you add VST effects in the track inserts, NOT input FX?

Just trying to get a visual here...
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:32 PM   #55
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As I understand it, iTeleport works exactly the same on both the iPad and iPhone.
oh yeah... I think that is true
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Old 07-01-2013, 05:40 PM   #56
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Ok, can you guys dumb it down for me? How do you get the sound from the stage to the computer and from the computer to the main and monitor speakers? Do you add VST effects in the track inserts, NOT input FX?

Just trying to get a visual here...
Mic preamps, converters, & audio interfaces in a 8-space rack with a Mac Pro sitting on top in the back or side corner of the stage. There's no to or from stage. Stage is home base.

Mics patched into the preamps in the back of the rack.

Main and monitor mix outputs go to either the amp rack directly or the stage box and thru an existing system for a festival hit when I'm working with a band. IEM's patch into the front of the rack (there's a headphone amp in there too).

I use VST fx on track inserts. Both input tracks and tracks used as fx buses.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:38 PM   #57
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Mic preamps, converters, & audio interfaces in a 8-space rack with a Mac Pro sitting on top in the back or side corner of the stage. There's no to or from stage. Stage is home base.

Mics patched into the preamps in the back of the rack.

Main and monitor mix outputs go to either the amp rack directly or the stage box and thru an existing system for a festival hit when I'm working with a band. IEM's patch into the front of the rack (there's a headphone amp in there too).

I use VST fx on track inserts. Both input tracks and tracks used as fx buses.
Wow, that's pretty cool! Question: How do you use input tracks and tracks as busses? I saw something about using a track as a buss a few days ago but now I can't find it!!!
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:37 AM   #58
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Wow, that's pretty cool! Question: How do you use input tracks and tracks as busses? I saw something about using a track as a buss a few days ago but now I can't find it!!!
I'm using familiar mixing desk terms like 'input' and 'bus' to describe how I'm using Reaper tracks. There is no 'bus track' that you are missing. I'm simply routing some audio to a track that I'm using as I would use what would be called an aux or bus on a mixer or in other DAW's.
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:49 AM   #59
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Hey, Andy! Looking at your TourTech Theme. Pretty cool! Questions:

What is VOG? I'm assuming it has something to do with vocals?

Tunes - I'm assuming music played during breaks or prior/post show?

What is SUBS?

What is TRAX?

What is VOX $?

Just trying to get an idea of what you have set up. I like your organization! Nice job on the theme!
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Old 07-03-2013, 04:52 AM   #60
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I simultaneously record all the inputs and any fx I run to multitrack.
I'm curious about the recording of the show. Do you just record one long show and edit it later? Or is it possible to separate recording songs on the fly?

This type of setup would also be good as a mobile recording service.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:27 AM   #61
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Mic preamps, converters, & audio interfaces in a 8-space rack with a Mac Pro sitting on top in the back or side corner of the stage. There's no to or from stage. Stage is home base.
How do you mix the show from the stage? Don't you have to be out front for that?
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:27 AM   #62
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Hey, Andy! Looking at your TourTech Theme. Pretty cool! Questions:

What is VOG? I'm assuming it has something to do with vocals?

Tunes - I'm assuming music played during breaks or prior/post show?

What is SUBS?

What is TRAX?

What is VOX $?

Just trying to get an idea of what you have set up. I like your organization! Nice job on the theme!
VOG = Voice Of God - a (usually unseen) announcer. Used for public address.

Tunes = yes, break music.

SUBS = Probably subwoofer level for aux-fed subs. Fairly common live sound technique. Feed the subwoofers from a separate Aux send and ONLY send those channels there that need it. Cleans up the low end from stuff like vocal mic bleed, etc., even when you have HPF filters on those mics. Also allows closer song-to-song control of low end.

TRAX - Backing tracks, sequenced material that the band or artist will be playing along with. Could be an entire performance that a singer is singing along to - glorified karaoke, or could just be sequenced synth or percussion parts to add on to an existing performance.

VOX $ = The Money Channel - Lead vocal.

I'm guessing on most of those, but I'd use something similar on most scribble strips if I was on a board, as would most engineers. I might draw a star instead of "VOX $", or use BRK instead of Tunes, but it gets the point across either way.

Scott
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:29 AM   #63
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I'm curious about the recording of the show. Do you just record one long show and edit it later? Or is it possible to separate recording songs on the fly?

This type of setup would also be good as a mobile recording service.
For me, I record one long show and edit it later. I will break it down by set - there's no sense in recording the breaks. Disk space is cheap, but stopping and saving gives me a known point that everything was committed to disk. Doing it every song risks not having everything ready by the beginning of the NEXT song and that's a no-no.

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Old 07-03-2013, 07:30 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Jeffsounds View Post
Hey, Andy! Looking at your TourTech Theme. Pretty cool! Questions:

What is VOG? I'm assuming it has something to do with vocals?

Tunes - I'm assuming music played during breaks or prior/post show?

What is SUBS?

What is TRAX?

What is VOX $?

Just trying to get an idea of what you have set up. I like your organization! Nice job on the theme!
VOG - 'Voice of God' - My talkback channel
SUBS - an aux send that is lpf that goes to the subs.
TRAX - Playback from the stage - lots of bands use them now
VOX $ - VOX is a vocal, this is the money vocal, or lead vocal
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:40 AM   #65
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How do you mix the show from the stage? Don't you have to be out front for that?
Done it for years. It takes practice, and it takes a good band that knows how to manage their own levels. Can a good engineer do it better from out front? Abso-f*cking-lutely. Can I do better than most average hacks off the street? Also yes - because I know the band, the material, and the rig better than they do; an unfair advantage.

I use a wireless rig (bass guitar) and wander the audience for a few songs whenever I'm not singing at the beginning of the night to make sure levels are where I expect them to be, then leave it the hell alone except for spot checks periodically. If you're playing at an appropriate level, you should be able to get some feel for the mix from slapback from far walls, etc. it requires careful listening - and you have to know when to stop listening and just PLAY. An audience is far more accepting of a great performance that has all the levels in the ballpark than they are of a crappy performance that has everything nailed down with all the right fader moves, etc.

If you can afford a GOOD sound man, pay him and be happy. It's an art and can improve your sound drastically - IF you can find someone good. If you can find someone that isn't good yet, but has ears and is willing to learn and let his pay be based on his skill, maybe that's worth it, maybe not - your call. Otherwise, do it yourself and realize you have nobody else to blame if it sucks. You learn fast that way, or you learn to spend the money for the first option.

My $0.02 worth.

Scott
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:51 AM   #66
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Oopps, I see Scott has already answered that.

On an unrelated topic, Scott would you be interested in making a few VST's for live use?

I'm looking for a simple DDL that is tied to the tempo bus and also allows you to select a delay time by specifing ms, but I need it to be able to duck the delay on input - so for short delays you will get just tails and an uncluttered vocal. It also has to have the standard hp and lpf. I do this now using the ReaDelay and Reacomp using a sidechain, but I'd like to have a go to DDL that does everything I need. Since it's used for live vocals, there needs to be some sort of sensitivity control for the comp so bleed doesn't keep choking the ddl.

The second thing that I'm looking for is a Difference analyser. I currently use Voxengo's SPAN as my analyzer, but it would be nice to have one that has a second set of inputs that I could use to send a measurement mic into, hit a difference button and it would just show me what is different between the input and the measurement mic input.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:01 AM   #67
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How do you mix the show from the stage? Don't you have to be out front for that?
I don't - the main reason I own two mix racks is so I don't have to mix from side stage or from the audio booths that you find in theaters.

My rigs consist of a mixrack and a FOH laptop with a control surface. FOH connects to the Mixrack via VNC and the control surface via rtpMIDI. This is all done either wirelessly or via an ethernet cable. I am somewhat tied down out front as I have an AC cable that runs to my FOH position that if I unplug, I loose my control surface. I could put another UPS at FOH which would allow me to roam around without the power restriction, but so far this hasn't been an issue.

I can also connect to the mixrack with a tablet running VNC, but again, it's not something that I find all that practical.

I usually will walk the room a bit when I'm mixing, which includes checking in with the band on stage - if they need monitor adjustments I can just do that from the side of the stage, and can also make mix adjustments from there as well.

For me, having these two places to mix from has always been enough for me, considering that it wasn't all that long ago that all we had was analog and there were no such options.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:04 AM   #68
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The second thing that I'm looking for is a Difference analyser. I currently use Voxengo's SPAN as my analyzer, but it would be nice to have one that has a second set of inputs that I could use to send a measurement mic into, hit a difference button and it would just show me what is different between the input and the measurement mic input.
This doesn't work as well as you would expect (because of comb filtering) unless you synchronize the two signals by delay time. What you're looking for is a poor man's version of Smaart.

Anyway, yes, I've thought about things like that (and others) in the past, and continue to mull them over. They're on my list.

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Old 07-03-2013, 08:17 AM   #69
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This doesn't work as well as you would expect (because of comb filtering) unless you synchronize the two signals by delay time. What you're looking for is a poor man's version of Smaart.

Anyway, yes, I've thought about things like that (and others) in the past, and continue to mull them over. They're on my list.

Scott
Yes, a much simpler version of SMAART though (SMAART DI is still too heavy as well). Because it's an analyzer, is there no way no integrate a sync that would reasonably allign the two sources?
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:20 AM   #70
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How do you mix the show from the stage? Don't you have to be out front for that?
Haha. You can't and I don't. That's what we've been talking about this whole time in the wi-fi discussion! I use the UC-33e and Faderport MIDI controllers and an iPad. Sits on a little tray that hangs in front of me (think Revenge of the Nerds) and I can usually get at least 300' from the stage.

I adjust monitor mixes standing on stage right next to the musician. Then out into the room for the show. I can roam the venue and make sure the sound is consistent all over and then find my favorite spot to mix from.

Everything runs from my 'remote control' and I'm not tied to any one or two spots. Stage is home base.

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I'm curious about the recording of the show. Do you just record one long show and edit it later? Or is it possible to separate recording songs on the fly?

This type of setup would also be good as a mobile recording service.
I record multitrack so I have the ability to mix the recording professionally after the fact. I record pre for all inputs and obviously post for any live fx used.

I don't put a moments thought into the recording when I'm mixing a show. I don't record the live soundboard mix and wouldn't want it to get out since it is not a complete or accurate balance by itself. So I'm absolutely not sitting there putting markers between songs with the aim of making an instant mix after the show.

Sometimes there's no interest in the recording and it just gets archived on disc to be forgotten about. Other gigs the live recording is the reason I'm being hired. This rig actually started as a remote recording rig that's now morphed into a complete live production rig.

Last edited by serr; 07-03-2013 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:22 AM   #71
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Haha. That's what we've been talking about this whole time! I use the UC-33e and Faderport MIDI controllers and an iPad. Sits on a little tray (think Revenge of the Nerds) and I can usually get at least 300' from the stage.
Not strapped around your neck like a cigarette girl I hope!
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:28 AM   #72
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VOG = Voice Of God - a (usually unseen) announcer. Used for public address.
That's exactly what I was thinking!

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SUBS = Probably subwoofer level for aux-fed subs. Fairly common live sound technique. Feed the subwoofers from a separate Aux send and ONLY send those channels there that need it. Cleans up the low end from stuff like vocal mic bleed, etc., even when you have HPF filters on those mics. Also allows closer song-to-song control of low end.
So you are taking only the low-end instruments and sending them to the sub channel which feeds the sub power amp, giving you complete control of how much signal gets to the subs? Is that low-passed with an EQ?

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VOX $ = The Money Channel - Lead vocal.
haha I didn't get the money channel being the lead vocal. FUNNY!

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For me, I record one long show and edit it later. I will break it down by set - there's no sense in recording the breaks. Disk space is cheap, but stopping and saving gives me a known point that everything was committed to disk. Doing it every song risks not having everything ready by the beginning of the NEXT song and that's a no-no.
Good point! Makes sense if you're working a club where the band plays multiple sets. Pretty much the same outcome if you're doing a concert with multiple acts.

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Done it for years. It takes practice, and it takes a good band that knows how to manage their own levels. Can a good engineer do it better from out front? Abso-f*cking-lutely. Can I do better than most average hacks off the street? Also yes - because I know the band, the material, and the rig better than they do; an unfair advantage.
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I don't - the main reason I own two mix racks is so I don't have to mix from side stage or from the audio booths that you find in theaters.
So if you're just doing sound and NOT playing in the band, it would be better out front, no?

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My rigs consist of a mixrack and a FOH laptop with a control surface. FOH connects to the Mixrack via VNC and the control surface via rtpMIDI. This is all done either wirelessly or via an ethernet cable.
So do you adjust faders in Reaper or is that what the control surface is for?

Thanks, Scott! Thanks, Andy! I hope you don't mind all the questions and apologies for hijacking the thread. I find this absolutely fascinating! It just never occured to me that running the sound could be done with a computer, even though it is pretty obvious and gives you MUCH more control!

Hmmm... Scot, are you the one that makes the SStillwell plugs?
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:37 AM   #73
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No, I don't play in a band, I'm a FOH tech. I live in Canada, where I do most of my work but I regularly do dates in the US and have done shows in Mexico, Europe and the Middle East.

I send things with Subsonic information to the subs via an aux and run the mains full range. I don't own a production company or a PA, so the setup isn't always up to me. Subs on aux just lets you dial in your bottom end a little better as it isn't present on things like vocals.

Yes the control surface out front is fader control for Reaper. You don't want to mix with a mouse because it only allows you to touch 1 fader at a time, and this just isn't how it's done - I use all ten fingers sometimes.



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That's exactly what I was thinking!


So you are taking only the low-end instruments and sending them to the sub channel which feeds the sub power amp, giving you complete control of how much signal gets to the subs? Is that low-passed with an EQ?


haha I didn't get the money channel being the lead vocal. FUNNY!


Good point! Makes sense if you're working a club where the band plays multiple sets. Pretty much the same outcome if you're doing a concert with multiple acts.




So if you're just doing sound and NOT playing in the band, it would be better out front, no?


So do you adjust faders in Reaper or is that what the control surface is for?

Thanks, Scott! Thanks, Andy! I hope you don't mind all the questions and apologies for hijacking the thread. I find this absolutely fascinating! It just never occured to me that running the sound could be done with a computer, even though it is pretty obvious and gives you MUCH more control!

Hmmm... Scot, are you the one that makes the SStillwell plugs?
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:49 AM   #74
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Not strapped around your neck like a cigarette girl I hope!
Well, I was thinking more Revenge of the Nerds...
But, yeah, that's the deal. And I have been asked for peanuts before too
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:59 AM   #75
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Well, I was thinking more Revenge of the Nerds...
But, yeah, that's the deal. And I have been asked for peanuts before too
If you wrap some p&d around it and yourself you could be a floating head walking around the venue!
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:12 AM   #76
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So if you're just doing sound and NOT playing in the band, it would be better out front, no?

Hmmm... Scot, are you the one that makes the SStillwell plugs?
If you're not in the band, you had better be out front unless venue management gives you no choice in the matter. If you're running monitor world, that's a different story.

I mix from stage because the guys that can do it better than I can cost too much relative to how much bands get paid in our market - otherwise I'd just pay them and relax and PLAY, which is exactly what I do on the odd gig where I do have the option. I'm happy to share the love if we're getting paid well (which is f*cking rare, let me tell you. )

If I'm running sound for others, I do it from front of house, wirelessly if at all possible. I still have both kinds of rigs, though, and tailor the load to the gig.

Scott

PS: Yes, the JS plugs in REAPER labelled sstillwell were written by me (with a few exceptions where somebody re-wrote one with additional features). I also write VST plugins for sale on http://www.stillwellaudio.com - which is in my signature. Sales blurb over.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:02 PM   #77
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awesome thread!
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:52 AM   #78
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I've done FOH mixing with REAPER probably 15 times. Originally I had reaper patched to the inserts of an analog mixer just for effects and processing and recording.

Recently I started trying reaper for full mixing and routing for aux's and mains. My results are mixed (heh....), some good things, some... not so good...

My number 1 annoyance was getting a solo bus working for headphones without muting other channels or outputs. It ended up being such a pain that I avoided solo'ing anything.

Initial project setup is kinda slow, something that needed to be done before hand.

The ability to record the multitrack audio directly to compressed OGG was great. Recording the show was just a given because it would take up such little space, it was no concern.

Reaper has true OSC support which was pretty cool. roaming with an ipad worked pretty well for mutes and fader levels (which is all I was energetic enough to program out)

I recently tried out Ableton Live 9, and honestly, i thought it was better than reaper for a few reasons.

Ableton Live has a true solo/cue bus, just awesome. the built-in live effects are small GUI and sit at the bottom of the screen. It's really easy to see them for the selected channel and make changes to eq and dynamics WITHOUT flipping through a bunch of windows and mouse clicks like reaper (REAPER's stock effects are superior though, in my opinion)

Either way, mixing live in-the-box is just way more fun. people still love it when I do hard t-pain style autotune during a soundcheck for the lol's. Software mixing brings back the fun live sound.
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