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Old 04-14-2017, 01:01 PM   #1
DarkKman
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Default Switch Project Tab with MIDI Program Change (form Forte)

Hi folks,

I'm new to Reaper and going through the Videos from Kenny Gioia which are incredibly useful. I'm trying to jump the gun a little though as I have what will hopefully be a relatively simple workflow for my current setup.

I use Brainspawn Forte for live performance - for me it's great and I'm not ready to try setting up another Host as it's stable and my workhorse for several bands. What I *am* looking to swap out is the VST I use to run backing tracks within Forte; energyXT.

There are a number of reasons for this;
1. It only has one stereo out - this limits me splitting audio for FOH processing.
2. It's only 32bit so needs to be jBridged - this makes it a little temperamental and if Forte crashes it's usually due to energyXT

So, I have recently discovered that Forte comes with the ReWire which allows me to open an instance of Reaper as Slave... Great! This means I can trigger backing tracks from Reaper, hopefully MIDI click track (which I can either use to trigger a Reaper hosted sampler or feed back into my Forte rack - not so important at the moment; just the audio). BUT... How to I change the project in Reaper when I change the scene/song in Forte?

From the research I have done it looks like Reapers project tabs may be the way to go so I can just load up my set and switch tabs for each song/project - BUT... How do I do this? I assumed I could send a Program Change from Forte to Reaper and, while I know how to SEND a program change from Forte when I switch to a scene, I can't for the life of me figure out how to assign a Program Change message to switch Reaper project tab?

So, can anyone point me in the right direct to switch to any project tab in Reaper using MIDI Program Change...

Or, can anyone suggest an alternative workflow I might be able to implement?

Thanks in advance...
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:26 AM   #2
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OK... I've been playing around a little and discovered that ReWire only provides a stereo pair back into Forte which scuppers that idea. I have tried syncing a stand alone instance of Reaper which kinda of works but I can't sync triggering the transport. I can probably work around this as long by using Reaper as master and sync'ing MIDI sync but the main issue is the below...

I still haven't found a way to switch tabs from within Forte to Reaper. Is there a way to assign Program Change message to a Reaper project tab? I can switch using a controller on my MIDI keyboard but;

a) it seems Reaper window needs to be in focus (as I'm not touching the laptop while performing this is a problem)
b) I utilise the MIDI keyboard CC to switch scenes in Forte and can't seem to share them (when Forte has "Next Scene" applied to the ">>" button, Reaper can't use the same (receiving a CC#64 for all CCs already in use)

Any help here would be most appreciated.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:12 AM   #3
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Great to hear that Forte works good for you.

I once installed their test drive and played with it for a while. I did not see any stability problems, but I read that other users in fact did face those.

But I found Forte by far not versatile enough for my needs, and when I happened to get to know Reaper I switched at once. (Moreover Reaper is a lot cheaper and also can perfectly be used as a standard DAW for recording and mixing without me running though a completely new learning curve.)

In fact it's not exactly easy to set up Reaper as a live VST player, but happily there is SWS "LiveConfigs" (for which I wrote an extended User Guide) but once you know how to handle this, you can make Reaper do any trick you like. And the stability and performance of Reaper has been pointed out rather often. So I am happily using Reaper for live performance in my (mini-) studio and on stage with my band since some years.

Regarding your question I fear that combining Forte with Reaper (e.g. via Rewire or similar routing options) will cause more problems, than doing the task in Reaper alone (which will be doable with the help of this forum). Regarding Forte "Scenes": exactly this is what LiveConfigs offers (but a lot more versatile, as you can do your own realtime scripts to define any necessary action). On top of that, I did a set of Reaper plugins that can be used to step the "Scenes" in the context of a song / song-List in a versatile way - allowing for spontaneous variations. This might - or might not - be interesting.

Sorry, but Reaper does not react on Program Change Midi events "out of the box". But in fact this is what I do in my live setup (and which is described in the updated "LiveConfigs" User Guide). Here you need to understand how Reaper works under the hood, and you need at least two Midi-plugins and LiveConfigs. In fact the way this is done is not switching "project tabs", but muting and unmuting tracks (this is what LiveConfigs does for you).

Of course Reaper 64Bit does have a built-in 32 Bit "Bridge" and can be set to feed 64 output channels.

Please come back with any questions, if you need to know how Reaper can do what you want it to.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 04-17-2017 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:48 AM   #4
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I can add a couple thoughts... even though I think Boa has ya covered..

It may turn out that you will want to change from energyXT and Forte and go purely reaper...

I'd suggest detailing exactly what you requre for one song and see what we can help you set up for that. It is likely from doing that you'd learn enough about how to do it all in reaper so that you could set up the rest of your performance needs on your own.

If that all works you'd certainly gain a lot in terms of stability and efficiency
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:49 AM   #5
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Sorry, but Reaper does not react on Program Change Midi events "out of the box". But in fact this is what I do in my live setup (and which is described in the updated "LiveConfigs" User Guide). Here you need to understand how Reaper works under the hood, and you need at least two Midi-plugins and LiveConfigs. In fact the way this is done is not switching "project tabs", but muting and unmuting tracks (this is what LiveConfigs does for you).

-Michael
Thank you for the comprehensive answer. Indeed, I am looking for an all-in-one solution to performing. My setup is kind of as follows;

a) One keyboard controller (currently AKAI MPK261) for which I control multiple VSTi with various keyboard splits & layers including using the AKAI pads to trigger latching notes/loops (usually in Kontakt)
b) Playing backing tracks preferably with groups/bus so I can route to separate hardware audio outputs (I use an RME Fireface 802) *edit* these are usually multiple stems for each song hence the desire to group outputs (I don't like to make FOH engineers life too hard but I always find splitting drums out from the rest to be beneficial to allow FOH to balance sounds)
c) Playing click track which can include time signature and tempo changes; currently I use a MIDI track exported from Cubase and send this to a simple VSTi sampler (currently Shortcircuit but again that's only 32bit) and then out to a dedicated output pair on the RME
d) Live "mixing"; live volume balance, eq, fx sends using AKAI faders and encoders and buttons
e) Treating Live Inputs (Guitar and vocals)
f) Instant changing between songs (or even intra-song) to allow backing to transition seemlessly while holding a note on a keyboard - while last on this list this is certainly very important.

TO be fair, using energyXT and Forte achieves most of this other than relying on 2 x 32 bit VST which are usually what causes any crashes and hosting energyXT only provides 1 stereo output so I need to add more instances and split the audio backing accordingly (hence adding to instability risk).

But if Reaper can manage this and enable and all-in-one solution this would be very nice. Reaper seems fairly simple to import audio (never used it for MIDI) so a little bit of a learning curve perhaps.

I think some reading is in order... Is this the manual you were refering to? I found a few different version but this *seems* to be the latest...

http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

Thanks again for the pointer - I'll have a run through some demo setups and come back if I have any follow ups (and post them here if the are related to this subject).
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Old 04-17-2017, 06:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
I can add a couple thoughts... even though I think Boa has ya covered..

It may turn out that you will want to change from energyXT and Forte and go purely reaper...

I'd suggest detailing exactly what you requre for one song and see what we can help you set up for that. It is likely from doing that you'd learn enough about how to do it all in reaper so that you could set up the rest of your performance needs on your own.

If that all works you'd certainly gain a lot in terms of stability and efficiency
Thanks for this. This popped up just as I as posting my above reply

I've kind of given a breakdown of how I use Forte and energyXT so I hope this is the kind of information that might help to point me in the direction for trying out a Reaper only solution!

*edit* I thought I'd add here more precisely how I perform;

1. I load my "set" which contains all the tracks (usually in order but sometimes the set is freeform) which we peform.
2. I press "Play" button on the AKAI MPK261 which starts the backing stems at a predefined tempo/time signature
3. I play the keyboard of the AKAI which are connected to multiple VSTi; layered and/or split between different sounds, also using the Trigger Pads to fire off loops (latched) or single hits
4. Adjust balance of stems, including sending FX sends (aux sends) using the AKAI faders and encoders; this may also include adjusting Filters/Decay of VST synths etc; ideally the stem outputs can be grouped, processed and output to separate hardware output
5. Click the "Forward" button to move onto either the next song or an alternative patch for the same song in which case the stems must continue to play while the patch/instrument changes. Sometimes I need to hold a note while moving onto the next song to create no gap in sound e.g. holding a pad chord from the end of one song through the intro of the next.

Hopefully that will give a general idea of what I am looking to achieve.

Thanks again folks for the pointers - much appreciated!

Last edited by DarkKman; 04-17-2017 at 07:11 AM. Reason: more detail added
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Old 04-17-2017, 07:36 AM   #7
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maybe I can help... not 100% sure but

check your PM [private messages]
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkKman View Post
But if Reaper can manage this and enable and all-in-one solution this would be very nice. Reaper seems fairly simple to import audio (never used it for MIDI) so a little bit of a learning curve perhaps.
I am rather sure it can. But up till now, for live playing I only used Reaper in "stop/monitoring" mode, never in "run" state (i.e. similar to what Ableton Live is used for). I supposes other already did this and can comment on what to to for controlling things like "background tracks" when live playing keyboards.

In fact as a result of a program change, LiveConfigs can trigger any Reaper "Action", which again can be a script. So I suppose this can set the play cursor and start playing your backgroud track(s) be they audio and/or midi.

I myself hate the idea of using computer keyboard/mouse/monitor for live playing. I just use the buttons and controllers of my masterkeyboards. (I suppose will get a dedicated controller box, soon.) The computer is built in a trunk and "on stage" no monitor connected.

I would consider any not "all in one" solution too dangerous for on-stage usage. When I found Forte to be not appropriate for my needs, I considered to add Bome MidiTranslator, but the benefit did not seem to make up for the danger of inter-program communication complexity.

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Is this the manual you were refering to? I found a few different version but this *seems* to be the latest...

http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf
Yep. It's still a work in progress. I do updates from time to time.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 04-18-2017 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:53 PM   #9
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check your PM [private messages]
Why not sharing your suggestions with us ?

-Michael
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Old 04-17-2017, 02:03 PM   #10
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Why not sharing your suggestions with us ?

-Michael
I'm not hiding a suggestion... it was something else and that is why it's private...

BTW... I can imagine all the wishes of the OP except for one... that being having a continuing note keep playings during a transition from one tab to the next....

I could see how that could happen but not with tabs involved.

There is of course an action to 'move to next or previous tab'...

I had helped another Live Performance person set up 30 tabs, one for each song and used an action marker with go to next tab at the end of each song... so the next tab and song was ready to play with a simple play command... but that would not allow for that continous transition note to keep sounding...
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:12 AM   #11
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OK.

In fact I think that the idea of switching project tabs is not a good one. I am ready to help with using LiveConfigs etc (stuff I know rather well) and maybe on possibilities to use Reaper in play-mode for "background tracks" (stuf I know close to nothing special about), but not with experiments on switching the project (tab).

My (dumb, using Reaper in "stop"-mode) suggestion regarding background tracks would be to use a sampler (e.g. ReaSamplomatic) to play back the audio, but not having tried something like this I don't know about the implications.

BTW.: this is yet another case where "Live SubProjects" maybe could help, but those are not (yet) available in reaper.

-Michael

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Old 04-18-2017, 02:13 AM   #12
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One of the things with Forte is the re-use and pre-loading of VSTs. This seems to be something that LiveConfigs could emulate i.e. rather than loading the VST for each song, it re-uses (by use of mutes and program changes/snapshots) the VST so there is no load time which introduces gaps (potentially long gaps) in performance and no multiple load introduced by copies of VSTs for each and every song (this could be huuuuge if using e.g. Omnisphere in a set of 15-20 songs). This is very important. So LiveConfigs in a central project (single tab) looks like a good starting point.

Also, based on this, I'm not sure how LiveConfigs would manage different tabs for each song (as the tracks would be different and presumably the VSTs would need to reload or load additional copies of the VSTs which would take up valuable resources).

However, for the backing tracks this would be unpleasant as even if I only have 4xStereo stems for each track this would mean having to load 80 stems/tracks and would be complicated to manage the starting volumes for all of these not to mention setting up different sets... This is where tabs *could* be useful.

I have considered PiP (Project in Project?) which I discovered in my search for the live performance holy grail, which seems ideal as this would allow me to setup my stem projects and just load in which ones I want for each set (or just have them all and selectively mute), however I don't know much about this and I suspect I wouldn't be able to have access to the Sub Mixes (i.e. control fx, levels, dynamics for the stems themselves)...

It's a pickle... I'm not going to get much chance this week to try these things out so will post where I get to as I experiment with options. However, if any ideas spring to mind feel free to share
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:19 AM   #13
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The way switching patches with Reaper/Liveconfigs is done like that:

You set up several tracks for different basic layouts of the audio chains you want to be able to use (Midi and/or audio input, multiple channels audio output).

Now via Live-Configs you can on the fly unmute one of them and mute all others (while there of course can be other "non-managed" tracks that just stay as they are.

You can use each these tracks for multiple patches by having LiveConfigs push appropriate "configurations" to the VSTs. You have stored these configurations with appropriate names before, using normal Reaper configuration means.

So no load-time when switching patches.

As muted tracks can be configured to stop the VSTs they hold, theses don't use up any CPU performance.

A special case are sample libraries such as Kontakt instruments. Here it's better not to do a "configuration" switching for any patch (this will make Kontakt (pre-) load the samples when changing the patch). Here it's better to use the internal patch- ("instrument-") selection, Kontakt offers, via "PC"-messages. For this, I did a tiny Reaper plugin (script) that just sends out a PC message when LiveCongigs changes it's configuration.

I suppose using LiveConfigs and swapping project tabs is kind of mutually exclusive. Swapping Project tabs might be a good means - but supposedly not the only one - to manage "background tracks", but it will kill the possibility to decently live-playing VSTi instruments by Masterkeyboard or using VSTs on live audio streams.

For the backing tracks I could imagine either using something like a sampler (which seemingly would need to feature multi-channel output), or user Reaper tracks with the appropriate "song" placed at a certain time position, with having Live-Configs place the play cursor there and start the playback.

LiveConfigs can do any Reaper "action" as well when entering as when leaving a "config" (line).

You can use up to 8 LiveConfig tables in parallel. (I use two, one for each of my masterkeyboard) they can set to react on different Midi Channels. So maybe you could ue one for managing the patches, and another one to manage the background tracks.

I don't know "PIP". Maybe you can report here what you find out about same. I suppose this is something to allow a behavior like Ableton Live, e.g. loop-based live-playing. This in fact might help here. (I already did mention the - not yet existing - "Live SubProject" Reaper feature, PIP sounding like something similar...).

In fact "Live playing" seems to be considered two very different things by different persons: Using VSTs in Reaper "stop/monitor" mode (which I do: "Forte-Mode") and controlling Reaper's play mode in a live performance (e.g. for loop based performance: "Ableton-Mode"). You seem to need both at the same time.

-Michael

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Old 04-18-2017, 09:37 AM   #14
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just some fyi

I have no experience with Live Configs... but I'd like to learn about it

I do have experience with using tabs
so I can add this info...

Imagine several tabs, each one has it's own project on it
so each project could have one or more instances of whatever, say Omnisphere, with patches loaded as desired.

OK... then reaper has a way of saving the entire tabs list... so you can load up whatever set of tabs you have saved...

OK... so the active tab will have all the VSTi's and VST's on it ready to roll
AND.. they will be using the cpu, BUT the other tabs, even though they become ready to roll when made active, are NOT using cpu for the VSTi's on them... NOT until they become active.

Moving to the next or previous tab can be done by a few ways...
an action marker is one way, and also a CC sent from one of you hardware controllers is another way...
In the one we sent up, the drummer decides and activates the next tab...

So... in short... all that would seem to cover your needs EXCEPT for that one need of having a continuous note playing between songs...
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:45 AM   #15
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Firstly, thank you for all the inputs folks... Really good stuff here and I'm seeing how Reaper's flexibility *could* be the holy grail for me but some testing still to do... I know I'm being very demanding with what I want from my performance setup so I don't mean to sound difficult - just playing devil's advocate. Although, having said that, the situations I describe are situations I need - this is in part as I play with several different bands where the needs vary a little (some more VST synth performance, some more "live" mixing stems, some a combination of both, some including receiving patch changes from other devices to trigger other events etc)... Anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I suppose using LiveConfigs and swapping project tabs is kind of mutually exclusive. Swapping Project tabs might be a good means - but supposedly not the only one - to manage "background tracks", but it will kill the possibility to decently live-playing VSTi instruments by Masterkeyboard or using VSTs on live audio streams.
This is a concern of mine using project tabs; how can I manage switching of patches, muting VSTs, changing keyboard splits/layers of VSTs during a song? This (LiveConfigs) is how one would imagine Reaper can emulate the non-break switch between sounds (so a pad can carry on playing on the right hand as you switch bass sound for the left). I will see what happens when I set up tabs and LiveConfig - it may be possible if the track structure is the same? But with wildly different VSTis expect to hit some issues - more to come this weekend!

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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
For the backing tracks I could imagine either using something like a sampler (which seemingly would need to feature multi-channel output), or user Reaper tracks with the appropriate "song" placed at a certain time position, with having Live-Configs place the play cursor there and start the playback.
I actually tried using a simple sampler in Forte (SAM!Solo and the multi-out version) however for rehearsing this is not practical as you cannot e.g. just run through the chorus with the band. However using all the tracks in one project is an option but then you lose that modular type setup that using Reaper tabs would provide (i.e. for each set you'd need to align all your stems for each song and change the play positions) this seems a little unwieldly - but not impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
You can use up to 8 LiveConfig tables in parallel. (I use two, one for each of my masterkeyboard) they can set to react on different Midi Channels. So maybe you could ue one for managing the patches, and another one to manage the background tracks.
This might be an option to cure the above. It kind of depends if LiveConfig persits accross tabs... TO be investigated further...
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I don't know "PIP". Maybe you can report here what you find out about same. I suppose this is something to allow a behavior like Ableton Live, e.g. loop-based live-playing. This in fact might help here. (I already did mention the - not yet existing - "Live SubProject" Reaper feature, PIP sounding like something similar...).
I will do... I believe PiP is a feature that used to exist in Reaper by default but was turned off and needs to be "reactivated" in the config file(?). I've lost where I saw how to set this up but this is an interesting thread which could probably save all my issues (particularly the "explode" PiP feature request) - I could then see using LiveConfig action to explode a PiP so I can "mix" it... But until this feature exists I'll keep experimenting.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=50248

Quote:
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In fact "Live playing" seems to be considered two very different things by different persons: Using VSTs in Reaper "stop/monitor" mode (which I do: "Forte-Mode") and controlling Reaper's play mode in a live performance (e.g. for loop based performance: "Ableton-Mode"). You seem to need both at the same time.
Yes. Exactly. If we go back to hardware, I used to use an ADAT for backing with a small Mackie mixer which also mixed my Ensoniq ASR10 (sampler and sequencer), Korg N5 (synth), and a rack of reverbs, delays, gates and compressors. So the only time-consuming prep I had to do was bounce the backing from one ADAT to another to sequence the set... Software has made this infinitely more simple (well clearly not infinitely, but A LOT). If I could emulate this, with a way to have "modular" songs this would be perfect i.e. I have all the features of LiveConfig but with the ability to just load up the stems I want for each song (like with tabs) that would be great.

IN FACT, there is a tool which a demo'd which IS very close called "Cantabile" which is very much like Forte but more configurable and includes a Media Player so with 5 Media Players loaded I got 4 stereo stems, 1 MIDI track (for click triggering). Just a shame the Media Player couldn't play more than one item. Have you heard of Cantabile? Thre thing that stops me from using is price ($200 for the full set of features which, of course, it what's needed for this setup)

Last edited by DarkKman; 04-18-2017 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 04-18-2017, 11:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hopi View Post
Imagine several tabs, each one has it's own project on it
so each project could have one or more instances of whatever, say Omnisphere, with patches loaded as desired.

OK... then reaper has a way of saving the entire tabs list... so you can load up whatever set of tabs you have saved...

OK... so the active tab will have all the VSTi's and VST's on it ready to roll
AND.. they will be using the cpu, BUT the other tabs, even though they become ready to roll when made active, are NOT using cpu for the VSTi's on them... NOT until they become active.

Moving to the next or previous tab can be done by a few ways...
an action marker is one way, and also a CC sent from one of you hardware controllers is another way...
In the one we sent up, the drummer decides and activates the next tab...

So... in short... all that would seem to cover your needs EXCEPT for that one need of having a continuous note playing between songs...
This is pretty close to what I need but, as per the post above, it's how to get that continuous "performance" which LiveConfigs offers. I still somehow need a way to switch patches, layers/splits during the performance. Not just between songs but during a song (which is the "performance" element)...

I'm going to be doing some experimenting this weekend and will report back but really, REALLY appreciated all the pointers... It's all good stuff so thank you both so much!
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Old 04-18-2017, 01:47 PM   #17
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how can I manage switching of patches, muting VSTs, changing keyboard splits/layers of VSTs during a song? This (LiveConfigs) is how one would imagine Reaper can emulate the non-break switch between sounds (so a pad can carry on playing on the right hand as you switch bass sound for the left). I will see what happens when I set up tabs and LiveConfig - it may be possible if the track structure is the same? But with wildly different VSTis expect to hit some issues - more to come this weekend!
OK this is yet another level of complexity (can you do that in Forte ?)

In Reaper with LiveConfigs, obviously you can't allow for the other track to be muted. So I suppose the splitting should be done before routing the midi information to those tracks that handle the multiple patches. As said, I use two "config tables" for my two master keyboards. If you want to do splitting, this can be done by the keyboard itself (i.e. mimicking two keyboards) or by a simple plugin running in a track that is not managed by LiveConfigs. Now two independent Config Tables could be used for the two hands. (As I might have mentioned before I have done a "Patch" (-Sequence) plugin that can step through LiveConfig settings in the course of a song by increase/decrease buttons <on the screen, Midi input is planned>. Right now it manages only one Config table, but I suppose it easily could be enhanced to handle multiple of them.)


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Originally Posted by DarkKman View Post
I actually tried using a simple sampler in Forte (SAM!Solo and the multi-out version) however for rehearsing this is not practical as you cannot e.g. just run through the chorus with the band.
I see. But I don't see what exactly would be a way you could want to interact with the software on such behalf. If we can make Reaper set the play cursor and start/stop appropriately on your commands (while still allowing for being used as a Forte-like VST player at the same time), I am sure that the details can be taken care of.

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Have you heard of Cantabile?
Yep. It was on my list to be checked out in detail after I found Forte not to be versatile enough. But when I checked out Reaper, I stopped searching for even more alternatives, as I also was looking for a good DAW (e.g. considering CuBase), but obviously Reaper offered both for a fraction of the price and with enhanced versatility.

-Michael

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Old 04-18-2017, 07:18 PM   #18
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I still somehow need a way to switch patches, layers/splits during the performance. Not just between songs but during a song (which is the "performance" element)...
can you give more detail:

Not clear what a 'layer' means to you...

I can imagine ways to do the switch patches... [possibly in a diff way than most would think of]

but then again ... how many diff patches? How often do they switch?
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Old 04-19-2017, 10:35 AM   #19
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OK this is yet another level of complexity (can you do that in Forte ?)
Yes. I'm probably "preaching to the converted" but Forte uses 'Scenes' to take a snapshot of Instrument tracks (your VSTi) and Bus tracks (Hardware audio outputs) including MIDI routings, inputs, keyboard ranges etc. You can also set your Instrument track to ONLY change if the scene is different from the last. This means that if you use the same Instrument in one scene and the next scene doesn't make any changes, it will allow you to hold a note with no break. All other Instruments tracks can change, routings, keyboard range, mute status etc. This makes it very powerful (not quite as configurable as Cantabile perhaps) but for my performances does everything I need EXCEPT the audio backing tracks - hence this thread!
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I see. But I don't see what exactly would be a way you could want to interact with the software on such behalf. If we can make Reaper set the play cursor and start/stop appropriately on your commands (while still allowing for being used as a Forte-like VST player at the same time), I am sure that the details can be taken care of.
Good point! This feature for rehearsing I wouldn't need any controllers, I'd anticipate and be happy to use the laptop mouse to move the cursor in the audio playback where I need to play from. Nothing fancy needed here. Just the ability to "mix" the audio (control levels, fx, etc) and VSTs (I route these to seperate Bus tracks in Forte I would imagine the same process in Reaper. The issue is how to manage each "Scene" and song in Reaper. I like to have each Song prepared as a module if you like so I don't have to import each stem over and over again if the set changes - tabs will allow this but still need a way to "perform" with the VSTs (switch patches etc)

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can you give more detail:

Not clear what a 'layer' means to you...

I can imagine ways to do the switch patches... [possibly in a diff way than most would think of]

but then again ... how many diff patches? How often do they switch?
When I refer to a layer I think of how synths layer up sounds. So a similar concept of keyboard ranges only having multiple keyboards sounds layered on top of each other rather than split. So e.g. Playing a synth sound from Omnisphere from C1 - C3 while also playing a piano from Kontakt from C1 - C3 also. And very keen to hear about switching patches etc... In one song I may only do this three of four times (Verse->Chorus->Verse->Bridge using different sounds perhaps. But also different keyboard ranges (splits/layers) and different sounds). I have played with some of the JSFX which filter MIDI and assume that I could save these as Reaper patches/presets, I just need a way to trigger these using my controller (AKAI MPK261). Preferably using a simple "Next" and "Back" type button (which is how I envisioned the "LiveConfigs" working...
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Old 04-19-2017, 12:20 PM   #20
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Preferably using a simple "Next" and "Back" type button (which is how I envisioned the "LiveConfigs" working...
LiveCofigs does not have "Next" and "Back" functionality. This is one of the causes I did the "Patch" plugin(s) for a friend (in fact as a rewarad for pointing me to Reaper )

see-> http://www.bschnell.de/patch.pdf

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Old 04-20-2017, 06:09 AM   #21
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I'm probably "preaching to the converted" but Forte uses 'Scenes' to take a snapshot of Instrument
Forte "Scenes" is rather exactly what Config "lines" with LiveConfigs are.

Changing to a new Config line can unmute a track and mute others (resulting of course in cutting the sound of a to-be-muted track) but that is not mandatory. It also can push a complete configuration onto as many VST's you define to (resulting in modifying the sound of the appropriate VSTs, but leaving alone all others). So you can use a "Config Line" to works only on one hand in the same way as you can do in Forte.

But IMHO, regarding "dual hand" (or dual keybopard) operation it seems more appropriate to use multiple "Config Tables", so that they can be handled completely independently. On top of that, another plugin (say an enhanced version of my "Patch" thingy) could manage the line ("scene") change of multiple Config (-Table)s in parallel.

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Old 04-25-2017, 03:01 PM   #22
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Here -> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=191185

"Glacierise" says that he has got patch changes and starting background tracks running seemingly via LiveConfigs .

-Michael
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Old 04-25-2017, 04:45 PM   #23
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ah ok ...layers as you mean it is:

one or more synths, each one being a layer of the total sound
...and you also want to limit the note range of the midi input to each of those layers... right?

so that part is very doable.

there is a JS plugin called midi note filter that will deal with the range settings
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:39 PM   #24
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http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...=1#post1837416 seems to provide the solution to manage background tracks and "scenes" via LiveConfigs seamlessly in a single Reaper project .

-Michael
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:12 PM   #25
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In another thread, I just was told, that as tool to fire background tracks, "Playtime" might be a decent plugin for Reaper.

-Michael
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...=1#post1837416 seems to provide the solution to manage background tracks and "scenes" via LiveConfigs seamlessly in a single Reaper project .

-Michael
Hey there. Sorry for the delay in posting any updates. I've been playing around and at the moment I'm inclined to think the way forward is by creating all my backing tracks in one project, lined up one after the other - this allows my live mixing and I just add a tempo track corresponding to the set. It's a bit clunky if I want to change the set however but the LiveConfigs works for the muting of VSTi etc. But, unless I'm missing something I can't get multiple rows to respond to one CC command. e.g. from one "scene" I want to mute VST1, 2 and 3 and unmute/change patches for VST 4. I'd like to do this just be clicking the "FFD" button on my controller but the way I have it set up I need to sequence through each row. What am I missing here?

Thanks for all the pointers by the way... I'm getting there, it's just very different an approach to what I am used to (and Reaper is a new DAW to me) so a fast learning curve for me.

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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
In another thread, I just was told, that as tool to fire background tracks, "Playtime" might be a decent plugin for Reaper.

-Michael
Playtime looks interesting. I don't really use Live Looping/Triggering but it looks like I could potentially just use it for backing tracks - I'll investigate further! Thanks again

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ah ok ...layers as you mean it is:

there is a JS plugin called midi note filter that will deal with the range settings
Thanks for this. I already have this in my test setup and works a treat for sorting out the layering/splitting.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:27 AM   #27
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unless I'm missing something I can't get multiple rows to respond to one CC command. e.g. from one "scene"
You are right.

As a workaround I tried to set up multiple tables ("configs") and have them adhere to the same channel and CC. But this does not seem to be possible, either.

So the only option to so such a kind of multi-unmute would be to do a small midi JSFX that send out two CCs (either different numbers or different Midi Channels) and feed two Configs by those (of course the two configs need to be set to manage not overlapping sets of tracks. )

-Michael
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:31 AM   #28
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Playtime looks interesting.... I'll investigate further!
Please let us know what you find !
I intend to enhance the docu for "LiveConfigs" appropriately, what we find that it makes sense to use LiveConfigs and Playtime together to do a Reaper project that features as well "Forte" as "Ableton Live" behavior.

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