A question for the Russians here

[G-Sun]

Thanks all,
and especially for having this conversation in english!

It's just so much better to hear from you living in former Soviet Union, about these matters,
than us westerns trying to guess

Of course, having a distance has it's benefits as well,
as I understand propaganda, fictions and media-agendas are not limited to one country only

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by azslow3

I mean try to analyze financial interests in Poland from German / Russian perspective (and in different direction), and political movements will be much less complicated.

This is very true.

In fact in WW2 Hitler and Stalin was allied in the beginning,
until Hitler decided to go from buying grain and oil from Russia, to taking it.

Besides that I do believe there are some bigger spiritual ideas that also drives politics.
Like the ideas of freedom, equality and individuality in USA,
and equality and serving the community in USSR.

Both beautiful ideas, different, yet a star for people to follow.

[RDBOIS]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Besides that I do believe there are some bigger spiritual ideas that also drives politics. Like the ideas of freedom, equality and individuality in USA,
and equality and serving the community in USSR.

The bird in a cage has the freedom to stand, eat, sleep, etc. It is so cute, just look at it! Look how happy it is... Say's who?

Different programming (i.e. brainwashing) and social engineering for different purposes, but it's all merging into one big clusterf*ck.

Freedom = Stockholm syndrome

It's all an illusion.

Even when you wake up your reality is still an illusion. The American dream... Right?! Dreaming awake.

So many layers to peel off - takes a life time - perhaps the act of peeling away is the only thing that makes sense? Don't go thinking you've reached the core, because chances are you've been led into a cul-de-sac by a gate keeper, a tool, or both.

Yes it's spiritual.

The question is: "What have we remembered on our own VS things we believe - that have been given to us?

Individuality? Perhaps buried deep underneath the stacks of mind programs (layers/peels of the onion) there is something rather unique to each person. But who really knows? Because all I see are slight variations on the surface of the onion - mostly aesthetic - like the type of haircut, what religious or cultural program, or what side of the dialectic is being argued. It's all <copy & paste> passing for personal opinion. Seems like the ego is mostly a spirit dressed in onion peels?

If you're lucky you can catch a glimps at your core. That's when the wall comes tumbling down and either 1) you rebuild quickly what fell because the cognitive dissonance is to painful, or 2) you decide to make it your life mission to deprogram yourself, remember, and free yourself.

But saying that USA = freedom is <copy & paste>.

Note: when I use the words 'you', 'your', and 'you're' it's mostly generic - not necessarily talking about G-Sun.

[Veto]

Originally Posted by azslow3

Note that the link was the first googled, which had an outline of major German concerns about democracy in Poland, written in english. So that was not for numbers, just as the reference that tree cuts are not in the list...

Ah I understand. This actually fits the point I was trying to make: That Germany, in particular German press, is not the de-facto standard of political objectivity. Even if they would like to be so much and don't miss any opportunity to lecture the world about that.

Originally Posted by azslow3

While I personally have controversial feeling about Soros activities, independent from primary intentions and motivations, Soros has helped science and education to survive in Russia during "perestroyka" time, when these two areas was completely forgotten. I know some people which was working for him at that time, and at least these people had clean targets (and had significant success achieving them).

Soros was just an example for funding of above NGO, however this anecdote is interesting. I highly welcome any investment in education, science and research.

More recently though I personally don't have a high opinion of him, making me think more of an opportunist of him. He seems to be focused much more on political matters nowadays and based on past actions I don't buy his alleged philanthropy. Not at all.

People should not forget that he's one of the most relentless investment bankers, his main objective was/is to aggregate obscenely huge chunks of money, quite often speculating on falling prices and declining economies. As you can see in my last post for example there are prominent claims that he's trying to actively influence and (partly) succeeded to destabilize whole countries (e.g. Yugoslavia, Malaysia, Ukraine, ...). So I'm asking me why wouldn't he try to do that under the disguise of philanthropy too? This could be a business model.

I find it at least suspicious that wherever there's a crisis or turmoil in a 1st world country, you can very often connect Soros and one of his numerous financial backed organizations.
Unlike with other super-rich-turned-philanthropists, like f.e. Gates.

There are countless means to do good in the world (education,research,medicine,...) why would you choose to influence tense political processes?

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by RDBOIS

Freedom = Stockholm syndrome
Individuality?

I was taking about the idea/vision/dream.
You're talking about the level of realizing those ideas,
and the obstacles and illusions on the way there

I, agree, freedom (and democracy) has been used a lot in the US for selling slavery, greed and the dominance of the few over the many.

Now, individuality, oh, that touches into the meaning of this whole universe and especially the creation of, and the life on earth.
And, oneness, or community, that's really the everlasting nature of our spirit.

And between individuality and community/wholeness there lies the total of our experience as humans.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Veto

There are countless means to do good in the world (education,research,medicine,...) why would you choose to influence tense political processes?

If you want to change the world, then those situations balanced at the tipping point are the ones you target. This is true whether your intentions are noble or nefarious.

Originally Posted by G-Sun

I was taking about the idea/vision/dream.
You're talking about the level of realizing those ideas,
and the obstacles and illusions on the way there

I, agree, freedom (and democracy) has been used a lot in the US for selling slavery, greed and the dominance of the few over the many.

Now, individuality, oh, that touches into the meaning of this whole universe and especially the creation of, and the life on earth.
And, oneness, or community, that's really the everlasting nature of our spirit.

And between individuality and community/wholeness there lies the total of our experience as humans.

The symbol for the sun is apt, because we think the world revolves around us

We don't have an "everlasting nature of our spirit". The whole deal with ancestors and continuity has its roots in our fear of being temporary entities.

[Veto]

Originally Posted by Judders

If you want to change the world, then those situations balanced at the tipping point are the ones you target. This is true whether your intentions are noble or nefarious.

The approach is effective, no question, and probably efficient too (otherwise money-driven folks wouldn't be there I guess) but it's also very "American" (please don't get me wrong).

Affected countries might disagree with that.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by Judders

We don't have an "everlasting nature of our spirit". The whole deal with ancestors and continuity has its roots in our fear of being temporary entities.

Here you miss the essence of your being, both as individual and as oneness. But, that's ok, most people do

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Veto

The approach is effective, no question, and probably efficient too (otherwise money-driven folks wouldn't be there I guess) but it's also very "American" (please don't get me wrong).

Affected countries might disagree with that.

People were toying with the fates of nations long before there was an America!

[Judders]

Originally Posted by G-Sun

Here you miss the essence of your being, both as individual and as oneness. But, that's ok, most people do

Hey, if waxing spiritual about that bollocks makes you feel better, you go for it

You're a tube that grew legs and started wearing clothes. Not much singles us out in function from the earliest forms of life. Stuff goes in one end of the tube, stuff comes out the other end of the tube, we reproduce and become fertiliser for the next generation.

That is a cosmic essence of sorts, but not such a romantic one.

[Veto]

Originally Posted by Judders

People were toying with the fates of nations long before there was an America!

Yeah you're right about that, but we surely don't need investment banker doing the exact same thing too

[RDBOIS]

Originally Posted by Judders

You're a tube that grew legs and started wearing clothes. Not much singles us out in function from the earliest forms of life. Stuff goes in one end of the tube, stuff comes out the other end of the tube, we reproduce and become fertiliser for the next generation.

It appears that way until you have personal experiences that demonstrate otherwise. And I'm not taking about faith-based, but repeated personal direct experiences in spiritual affairs. But not to derail the thread - best stick to the Russian questions.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by RDBOIS

It appears that way until you have personal experiences that demonstrate otherwise. And I'm not taking about faith-based, but repeated personal direct experiences in spiritual affairs. But not to derail the thread - best stick to the Russian questions.

I have, and I disagree.

These are neurochemical functions with mundane evolutionary origins taken out of context.

That isn't to diminish the power of these experiences to impress the mind and alter behaviour, but to ascribe cosmic significance to them betrays one's bloated ego and superiority complex.

[G-Sun]

Originally Posted by RDBOIS

But not to derail the thread - best stick to the Russian questions.

+1 from me

[G-Sun]

On topic though:
Spiritual freedom has been very limited in Communist Soviet Union, right? Both hitting hard on churches and native spirituality.
How did this affect Russia and former Soviet Union development, both for individuals and as a society?
And, how is it in this regard now?

[reapercurious]

Hi Russia,

The America Pravda says that Russia somehow was able to hack the election and install President Donald Trump. Thus, Russians are smarter than all the technology geniuses of Asia, and are so modest about it. I guess Kasparov tried to help Princess Hillary Clinton, but President Trump seemed to have the help of an even greater team of chess masters.

So, if you will pardon my candor, how did Russia hack the U.S. election and actually get away with it? Russia fooled all the Americans, and cheated them of the chance of having Queen Hillary Clinton as ruler. Any comments are appreciated.

[azslow3]

That is too old news.
The last one was in Germany, Russian hackers was continuously getting some information from German government. Related authorities have commented that they knew that is ongoing... but they have allowed it to continue, checking what exactly these hackers are doing

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by reapercurious

The America Pravda says that Russia somehow was able to hack the election and install President Donald Trump.

Any comments are appreciated.

First comment is that it doesn't say ^that, it says that they tried to hack and there is no evidence any hack swayed the election.

Secondly, the Dutch hacked the cozy bear group (the ones suspected of hacking into the DNC), at the time of the hacking, and filmed them for 6 months if memory serves and relayed that to the FBI.

They also found 100s of fake social media accounts posing as Americans and playing to the gullible citizen's sensibilities during the election (there are plenty of those gullible citizens here). If there were any non-American bad actors attempting to sway the election, it would be simply planting that seed because so many here would fall for it in a second because some really are that gullible - aka they fall for anything that supports their delusions.

I have no idea what the Russian government wants, I do know though if I were external to the US and trump was running, he is who I'd want because of all US presidents in history, he is the easiest to manipulate as he isn't that smart.

[cyrano]

Originally Posted by reapercurious

So, if you will pardon my candor, how did Russia hack the U.S. election and actually get away with it?

That was easy enough. Being smarter than the CIA, they just bought some very cheap advertising on Facebook. The more "clickbait" your ads are, the better they score on FB's algorithms.

Trump bought his influence for big bucks, from Analytica. This is a company that sells that kind of services. Of course, this is legit, since it is far more expensive.

Russia fooled all the Americans, and cheated them of the chance of having Queen Hillary Clinton as ruler. Any comments are appreciated.

When people belong to a party, their judgment power goes out the window. Dogmatism sets in. IQ gets lower. Of course, with only two parties to choose from, it's even worse. It's a problem worldwide, though.

A recent scientific study seems to strongly indicate just that. It's also the reason why soccer hooligans exist. And religious extremists...

[Sju]

Originally Posted by karbomusic

They also found 100s of fake social media accounts posing as Americans and playing to the gullible citizen's sensibilities during the election

Not only in the USA either. This shit is all over Europe, and for example Brexit is a fine case in point.

Here's just one example of Russian social media disinformation ops that was active at the time of the referendum:

https://web.archive.org/web/20141001...avidJo52951945

Also we saw that shit here in Finland, for example in a form of this internet-based alt-right publication "MV-Lehti", which concentrated on spewing false stories, trying to disguise as legit journalism, stoking anti-immigration views during the peak of the refugee crisis, and trying to generate antipathy against established, "main-stream" media outlets.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Sju

Also we saw that shit here in Finland, for example in a form of this internet-based alt-right publication "MV-Lehti", which concentrated on spewing false stories, trying to disguise as legit journalism, stoking anti-immigration views during the peak of the refugee crisis, and trying to generate antipathy against established, "main-stream" media outlets.

What makes it even sadder is those who started the fake news movement are the ones spreading the fake news - it's ironic and unfortunately genius at the same time.

Btw, I'm not blaming Russia or it citizens (just see if the shoe fits, as it is not my call). Really more about the fact that social media etc. is the new weapon of choice regardless of who decides to use it - of course those who want their goal *more* than facts are the only ones that use it that way - whomever that is, and there are many who prefer the facts even if it disagrees with their motives - those do exist so the assumption that there is no truth is really just giving up - there is always truth.

[cyrano]

Originally Posted by Sju

Not only in the USA either. This shit is all over Europe, and for example Brexit is a fine case in point.

That's a problem, allright. But a US right-wing billionaire donating 400.000 £ to the Brexit campaign isn't then?

[G-Sun]

Russiagate has nothing to do with Russia,
so please keep it out of this thread

[chip mcdonald]

I'm interested in hearing a Russian's perspective on Putin's "look at my toys blowing up Florida" video?

[cool]

Originally Posted by chip mcdonald

I'm interested in hearing a Russian's perspective on Putin's "look at my toys blowing up Florida" video?

What are we talking about? I could not google it

[azslow3]

Originally Posted by cool

What are we talking about? I could not google it

Search for "Путин Флорида".

@chip mcdonald: I think Russian perspective looking at that is the same as US perspective when looking many own movies in which some part of Russia (usually Siberia) is presented as a basis of terrorists with roots in Russian military (usually a General)

I mean Mar-a-Lago + MacDill Air Force Base

[chip mcdonald]

Originally Posted by azslow3

Search for "Путин Флорида".

@chip mcdonald: I think Russian perspective looking at that is the same as US perspective when looking many own movies in which some part of Russia (usually Siberia) is presented as a basis of terrorists with roots in Russian military (usually a General)

I mean Mar-a-Lago + MacDill Air Force Base

I think there is a difference between a official-state sponsored video and a Hollywood movie, don't you think?

[azslow3]

Originally Posted by chip mcdonald

I think there is a difference between a official-state sponsored video and a Hollywood movie, don't you think?

I think there is a difference between any video and really shooting more then 100 missiles in the opposite from US part of the globe, don't you think?