Superglue: Reversible, nondestructive glue and nesting pooled audio for Reaper

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by mtk

Thank you for this amazing tool.

You're welcome – I hope it makes Reaper more fun and efficient for you!

it would be great if I could make a razor selection on a track and superglue items using edges based on razor selection.

That is an interesting idea, thanks.

And I have a question, after superglue action:
- does it render new audio file for superitem
- or it uses the original audio files and superitems are more like a fixed razor selections?

Superglue renders a new file. Currently all past Superitem glue sources are retained, but I have some enhancements planned for options to clean out all but the most recent 2 etc. In addition, I have already committed code to add a prefix to source files to mark them out as Superitem renders which will be deployed in the next release.

[Joystick]

Originally Posted by Joystick

I tested some cases and I made it work.

It's the filenames of the scripts that are conflicting with some Windows systems.

I'm quoting myself, it feels weird :-D

Any news on the long filenames issue?

[MonkeyBars]

I'm getting a Windows testing machine together

[EpicSounds]

Found a bug, sorry




take a super item, make it unique/new pool#
Edit or unglue
item positions have shifted.

Also, seems like every time I reglue the pop up about left position changing comes up, even if nothing has changed.

[danerius]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Want to create pooled audio items that all update in sync
whenever one of them is updated?

SUPERGLUE THEM!

This is great

Been missing this feature in Reaper. Is there a video tutorial on this?

Regards /danerius

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I'm getting a Windows testing machine together

Just make names shorter.
Anyway such long names are difficult to figuring out what scripts do. More laconic, please.

[EpicSounds]

Originally Posted by danerius

This is great

Been missing this feature in Reaper. Is there a video tutorial on this?

Regards /danerius

I was just making one when I found the above bug. I'll have to come back to it after next update.

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I'm getting a Windows testing machine together

I just tested on a portable install in Windows 7 and Glue & Edit worked correctly. Before going and changing things, it would be great to identify the actual issue at hand here. Does anyone know exactly what it is?

Originally Posted by EpicSounds

I was just making one when I found the above bug. I'll have to come back to it after next update.

Thank you so much for trying! I will post here about the update when it drops.

[AZpercussion]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I just tested on a portable install in Windows 7 and Glue & Edit worked correctly. Before going and changing things, it would be great to identify the actual issue at hand here. Does anyone know exactly what it is?

Joystick already figured out that it's related with long names.
I think, if we have simple solution it will be better to solve problem that way, moreover such long names rather useless.

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by AZpercussion

Joystick already figured out that it's related with long names.
I think, if we have simple solution it will be better to solve problem that way, moreover such long names rather useless.

The idea was to make it as simple as possible to figure out how to use Superglue from just the script names, but I'll shorten just the Edit script name for the next release.

[Joystick]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I just tested on a portable install in Windows 7 and Glue & Edit worked correctly. Before going and changing things, it would be great to identify the actual issue at hand here. Does anyone know exactly what it is?

The long-filenames issue is not found in all Windows systems and it's something that's troubling Windows users for decades. In some machines it might work in some it might not and this can change when a user changes unrelated configurations.

The best practice is to keep the filenames as short as possible. "Superglue - Edit" would be ok and it's self-explanatory. After all, a user that uses Superglue already knows what it does. It's a very specific set of actions. Of course, it's your creation, so you have the final authority on that, but I don't believe that describing an action in detail on the title will make any difference in user adoption. We already love it :-)

A question that comes to my mind is that. maybe it's possible to keep a very small filename for the actual file itself, like "sg_edit.lua" or whatever, and then have a longer name with a short description in the action list of REAPER. The elegant way to do this would be for REAPER to support action descriptions taken from within the script, right?

[MonkeyBars]

Superglue v1.823

Enhancements

• Add option: Limit Sizing Region bounds to Superitem looped source
• Prepend brand + Pool ID string to Superitem glued source files
• Remove sizing region warning & replace time selection if TS bounds option enabled

Bugs fixed

• DePool-Edit restores items at wrong position
• Reglue offset is intermittently wrong with position change
• Edit script filename length too long, errors out in Windows

Improvements

• Remove obsolete internal time selection code
• Changed time selection wording to "bounds"

[AudioBits]

Made a short video about how Superglue can be useful for sound designers: https://twitter.com/nikolaj_dehaan/s...59396900257792

Also I think there is a bug when re-gluing, where looping gets enabled and makes the item longer? (As you can see in the end of the video)

[MonkeyBars]

Very cool video! Did you use the latest release for it? I can't replicate that automatic turning on of item looping.

Remember that the default setting for Reaper is to loop all new items, iirc. Since Superitems are new items, Reaper will loop them by default if you keep that default setting...

[EpicSounds]

just updated. I'm having trouble getting the glue to work using time selection. yes the option is on.



This part is a lot of friction for me
Could you loop through the process for each selected track?
I don't really know of a quick way to change the item selection to same area of another track other than dragging over the items on the track again and again.

[AudioBits]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Very cool video! Did you use the latest release for it? I can't replicate that automatic turning on of item looping.

Remember that the default setting for Reaper is to loop all new items, iirc. Since Superitems are new items, Reaper will loop them by default if you keep that default setting...

Ah yeah, I didn't have looping disabled for glued items

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by EpicSounds

just updated. I'm having trouble getting the glue to work using time selection. yes the option is on.



This part is a lot of friction for me
Could you loop through the process for each selected track?

As you can see by the issue number, multitrack support has been planned for a long time. I had to finish the basic functionality before moving on to that... Obviously now that you want it, it's going to the top of the list! https://github.com/MonkeyBars3k/ReaScripts/issues/11 https://github.com/MonkeyBars3k/ReaScripts/issues/15

I don't really know of a quick way to change the item selection to same area of another track other than dragging over the items on the track again and again.

I am having trouble understanding this explanation. Can anyone help me out?

[MonkeyBars]

Hm, there still appear to be issues with Edit after Remove from Pool. Working on it

[EpicSounds]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I am having trouble understanding this explanation. Can anyone help me out?

I just turned the kick into a superitem. Within the same time selection I want to do the same for the hihats.
I don't know how to efficiently deselect the kick and select the hihat items without also having to reset the time selection.

[...searches action list for 3rd time...]

actually this script will do it
spk77_Select items within time selection on selected tracks.eel

I think I'll probably make a toolbar pop up with glue actions on a mouse thumb button.

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by EpicSounds

actually this script will do it
spk77_Select items within time selection on selected tracks.eel

I think I'll probably make a toolbar pop up with glue actions on a mouse thumb button.

Ah ok, so this is a workaround until Superglue can handle multiitem & multitrack actions.

[MonkeyBars]

Deployed another fix for Edit after Remove from Pool.

Has anyone tested the recent release on Windows that was having issues with the Edit script? Its filename still long but no longer than the other scripts...

[MonkeyBars]

I was informed by a couple giants of ReaScript that I had configured my ReaPack metadata wrong. Deployed a fix – hopefully the changeover to the right package config is smooth.

[Infrabass]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I discussed Supertakes with AZ during betatesting in fact. Since Superglue's architecture is really based around item handling, it could be quite a large project to implement. I would really appreciate your input on this Github discussion as I do want to make Superglue as powerful as possible leveraging Reaper's native content hierarchy.

I posted a video on GitHub to show the use case for multi takes superglue.
:-)

Thanks MonkeyBars

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by Infrabass

I posted a video on GitHub to show the use case for multi takes superglue.
:-)

Thank you for contributing. Anyone is free to share ideas – here's the link to the Supertakes Discussion.

We'll keep this thread focused on Superglue's current feature set.

[Infrabass]

Hey MonkeyBars,

I was wondering if it's possible to have an option in the settings to rename superglue item exactly like the first selected item, removing the "sg:x[item_name] +x more" add-on?
I ask because it breaks a workflow of mine requiring to keep the same name.

I can manage it by modding your script but I think it could benefit others too and would support updates that way :-)

How can we make a donation?

Cheers!

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by Infrabass

Hey MonkeyBars,

I was wondering if it's possible to have an option in the settings to rename superglue item exactly like the first selected item, removing the "sg:x[item_name] +x more" add-on?
I ask because it breaks a workflow of mine requiring to keep the same name.

I can manage it by modding your script but I think it could benefit others too and would support updates that way :-)

How can we make a donation?

Cool idea, quite related to some other planned enhancements.

The best way to donate to the project is with a Pull Request on Github! I'd be happy to explain anything in the codebase that might trip you up in a Github Discussion – hopefully you can start them in the Project; if not, I'll step in.

[Reflected]

I've tried it today in a project
I got a crash while drag and drop a region that included a super glued item

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by Reflected

I got a crash while drag and drop a region that included a super glued item

Thanks for the bug report. I'll check that out as soon as I'm able

[acebone]

Man oh man - this was something I really needed.

I have just installed and done the first "does it work"-test, and yep, it seems to work just awesomely.

Also upon reading this thread I think that MonkeyBars deserve some kind of prize for "maintaining best developer/user-relations" <3

I'll be sure to report any anomalies or possible workflow-optimizations I encounter

Thanks man!

[acebone]

Uhoh, I've run into a problem with supergluing midiitems - and I have a couple of feature requests:

Background:

I am on Linux, and I am using Carla Patchbay to load winVSTs.

Feature-request 1:

At first I was "Hell yeah! I can have all sorts of crazy ideas, then superglue them with FX on the item rather than on the track, so I won't have to load a ton of plugins, this is GREAT for ideas" - the trick being that I can revisit these ideas later and bring the items back to their original state, to work more on them

This would otherwise be just perfect (awesome in fact), since right now I am trying to come up with all kinds of ambient ideas for background to a Podcast-series I am going to make.

So there's a feature-request: Why not store the plugin-info on the item(s) before supergluing them, and then load back the plugins when you superunglue them? Call it "SuperFreeze"?

Feature-request 2:

Superglueing items looses item-notes. I have specifically told SuperGlue not to use background-images, because I store important metadata in the item-notes. That information is lost when supergluing. Why not store/restore the notes too? And while we're at it: Create an item-note on the new superglue-item comprising all the notes found (if any) on the glued items?

Showstopper no 1 (and this can be considered a bug-report):

Unless there's a VSTi somewhere in the fx-chain, you can't superglue a midi-item!

In my rather special workflow, this is a considerable problem: I have to use carla patchbay to load winVSTs, because for some reason all other bridges (yabridge, linVST etc... ) blocks mouseclicking on the plugins. But the linuxVSTi version of Carla has the win-bridge disabled for some reason. I can't load winVSTs in them, I have to use the LV2 version of Carla - but if I do that, I can't superglue my midi-items.

Others might have their special usecases, ie: it's not everything that can make a sound that comes as a VSTi - so why insist on it?

Do you think that the VSTi problem can be fixed? I mean: Items should be glued as they sound, no matter what FX are in the chain, but perhaps there's a technical issue requiring the sound to come from nothing but a VSTi?

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by acebone

Also upon reading this thread I think that MonkeyBars deserve some kind of prize for "maintaining best developer/user-relations" <3

Thank you so much!

Originally Posted by acebone

Why not store the plugin-info on the item(s) before supergluing them, and then load back the plugins when you superunglue them?

Take FX are stored properly in Contained Items and should always be recalled on Edit.

If you mean Track FX, that is related to this discussion on a feature request from AZPercussion for which your input is welcome.

That information is lost when supergluing. Why not store/restore the notes too?

If background images are disabled in the SG options and item notes are getting lost, then that's a bug, as they should be retained. I'll check that out after I wrap up the film score I'm on. Edit: Was very quick to test. Contained Item notes certainly are NOT "lost" but restore properly on Edit/Unglue.

And while we're at it: Create an item-note on the new superglue-item comprising all the notes found (if any) on the glued items?

Very cool idea! I'll make a card for that right now.

this can be considered a bug-report): Unless there's a VSTi somewhere in the fx-chain, you can't superglue a midi-item!

This is not a bug – the limitation is very clearly stated in the Readme on Github which you were prompted to read in the OP before posting here

perhaps there's a technical issue requiring the sound to come from nothing but a VSTi?

Nope, it just needs dev time and effort. This enhancement is already planned here. However, there are a number of features which seem more urgent for most users at this time such as Superitem source file cleanup/mgmt and multiitem & multitrack actions – especially considering that Reaper native pooling for MIDI items already exists.

[acebone]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Take FX are stored properly in Contained Items and should always be recalled on Edit.

And they are - and the item notes are stored too ... they weren't yesterday, perhaps some user-error on my part.

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

(VSTi on MIDITRACKS)This is not a bug – the limitation is very clearly stated in the Readme on Github which you were prompted to read in the OP before posting here

I did read it but didn't notice, and yes, now you that you mention it, I see that you're right - but ... who reads stuff thoroughly when cool and awesome software is about to be installed? :P

But here's the odd thing:

I just superglued a midi-item with no VSTi on it? I tried it both with carla/LV2 on the track, and on the item itself. Both cases glued and unglued without a hitch. I swear it wouldn't let me do that yesterday - every point I made has been fixed ... magically ... except perhaps for the item-notes being propagated to the superglued items.

I am confused now??? Did you silently update?

Three images: before glue, after glue and after unglue


PS: I checked AZPercussions featurerequest. As I understand it, it's about saving FX on the glued items when ungluing, and restoring them when regluing. That's just an awesome feature that'll get a +1 from me - and it seems he already did the proto-code

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by acebone

And they are - and the item notes are stored too ... they weren't yesterday, perhaps some user-error on my part.

Please keep an eye on that and reply back here if you uncover an intermittent bug or the like.

I did read it but didn't notice, and yes, now you that you mention it, I see that you're right - but ... who reads stuff thoroughly when cool and awesome software is about to be installed? :P

Haha I know, and it's quite long as well.

I just superglued a midi-item with no VSTi on it? I tried it both with carla/LV2 on the track, and on the item itself. Both cases glued and unglued without a hitch.

I see in screenshot #2 there is audio peak visible on the Superitem. If there's no VI, where did that come from? That will give you the answer as to why it worked.

PS: I checked AZPercussions featurerequest. As I understand it, it's about saving FX on the glued items when ungluing, and restoring them when regluing.

Nope, it's about adding a child track on Edit which duplicates the Superitem FX chain but as track FX, so the user can listen to the Contained Items through the FX chain that will be restored after Reglue while Editing (without having to guess at the resulting sound).

[acebone]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Please keep an eye on that and reply back here if you uncover an intermittent bug or the like.

Will do!

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I see in screenshot #2 there is audio peak visible on the Superitem. If there's no VI, where did that come from? That will give you the answer as to why it worked.

Yep, there's audio! The VI is in the carla-patchbay, it contains a winVST (Sampletank 3).

This is confusing:

As I understand it a VI is not the same as a VSTi: A VI can be any format, lv2, vst, whatever, while a VSTi is a VI in VST format. Is that not right?

So it seems that the script needs "a VI", not a "VSTi" to function, and that makes sense. Still yesterday the script told me that I needed a VSTi on the track (even though I had a VI) and proceeded to render empty items. To me it looked exactly like the script was saying: "Hey you, we don't want no ordinary VIs, we want VIs in the VST-format".

Obviously that's not the case, because today I don't get that error at all, audio is rendered into the superglued items just fine.

It may be me who is just overwhelmed by all the stuff you can with your reaper-installation. I am going nuts these days with scripts, toolbars and whatnot - creating my "dream-DAW", I might have gotten confused - but one thing I am quite certain about: I had a midi-item playing beautiful pianosounds, and when I superglued it, I got a warning - and I am pretty sure it said "no VSTi" - and the render was empty.

You could have a look in your code and see if you use "VSTi" in that alert box, and change it to "virtual instrument"? Otherwise I am sry for the false report. If I ever see that alert-box again, I'll try to examine more closely wtf is going on

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Nope, it's about adding a child track on Edit which duplicates a Superitem FX chain but as track FX, so the user can listen to the Contained Items through the FX chain that will be restored after Reglue while Editing (without having to guess at the resulting sound).

Oh, so if I superglue an item, put fx on it, then unglue and glue it again, the FX will be restored? That's even more awesome, and of course being able to hear those effects while fiddling with the original items is a great idea so I still +1 AZpercussions suggestion

[MonkeyBars]

Oh, so if I superglue an item, put fx on it, then unglue and glue it again, the FX will be restored?

That is already the case. Both take FX on Contained Items and Superitems are retained.

being able to hear those effects while fiddling with the original items is a great idea so I still +1 AZpercussions suggestion

This is the part that is new. But also just the UX workflow of Editing Contained Items on a child track could be very convenient.

[acebone]

Oh - now I know what happened.

First of all: The whole VSTi vs VI confusion is my fault. The alert-box says "Add a virtual instrument" - and I read that as "add a VSTi" - eyes all red from configuring you know ... you can mark that bug as "not-a-bug"

Also I had the misconception that you could put a VI on an item in REAPER, but that does not seem to be the case?

So the only petite bug (a so called "bugette") I can come up with is that the script will not complain about a missing source of sound if the trackFX are muted. It probably should complain?

I am so sorry to have wasted your time. Even though I've been using REAPER once in a while for some years, it's only now that I really dig into it.

So my workflow will be: Have the FX on the track, but copy them to the item and perhaps or perhaps not mute the copied plugins before supergluing. That way I can have lots of different ideas in different items that do not load plugins until I unglue them (and copy their FX to the track). I hope that sounds right?


Once again - a lot of this came from my lack of deeper knowledge, so sorry!

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by acebone

Also I had the misconception that you could put a VI on an item in REAPER, but that does not seem to be the case?

I am able to add take VIs – which means the code needs to check for that as well.

So the only petite bug (a so called "bugette") I can come up with is that the script will not complain about a missing source of sound if the trackFX are muted. It probably should complain?

Yep those are edge case bugs that need fixing until pure MIDI is implemented. Thanks.

So my workflow will be: Have the FX on the track, but copy them to the item and perhaps or perhaps not mute the copied plugins before supergluing. That way I can have lots of different ideas in different items that do not load plugins until I unglue them (and copy their FX to the track). I hope that sounds right?

Not exactly clear on what you're saying here...

[acebone]

Doing a series of small tests now, plz. don't waste anytime on my reports until I get back ...

[acebone]

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

I am able to add take VIs – which means the code needs to check for that as well.

That would be sooo great

I did a few tests.

--

1. Can Reaper play midi with no trackFX and a VI on the item?

Yes

(reaper is awesome)

2. Will SuperGlue render an item if there is only an item VI and no trackFX?

No - it warns about a missing VI

(Would be awesome if it would render item VIs too)

3. Will Superglue accept a muted VI in trackFX and then render the item VI?

Yes, but it will render a silent audio-item.

4. Can I store a copy of the trackFX in the item before gluing and get them back when ungluing?

Yes

5. Can I copy a track containing a superglued item to another project?

Yes

6. Can I unglue the item in the other project after track-copying?

No: "MB_Superglue-Utils.lua:2647: attempt to index a nil value (local 'item_state_chunks_table')"

7. Can I save the track as a track-template w. items, and load it into another project and unglue?

No again: "MB_Superglue-Utils.lua:2647: attempt to index a nil value (local 'item_state_chunks_table')"

--

So everything is quite good actually, in fact it's friggin' awesome

Would be very very cool if item-VIs worked for gluing too, and if you could transfer superglued items between projects without loosing the ability to unglue

Originally Posted by MonkeyBars

Not exactly clear on what you're saying here...

It's just a very cool workflow that Superglue potentially offers, one that would make me extremely happy:

Get a great idea that you haven't got time to explore so you want to save it for later?

For instance I often get exciting ideas while looking for a certain sound in a VI or synth. The idea is not for the current project though, so I'd like to save it. Saving the VI-preset is not enough, because it's also what I played that makes it an exciting idea. With superglue you could:

1. record it
2. copy the trackFX to the item
3. superglue it
4. save the superglued idea in a special project for ideas (test 6 and 7 prohibits this)
- you always have your "idea-project" in a projecttab on the side, it doesn't take up many ressources.
5. revisit the idea later
6. notice how fast the idea-project loads, because it only contains audio-files, no plugins!
6. unglue the idea
7. get creative

I'd grow an idea-library pretty fast I think - either that or realize that my idea sucks when hearing them again

Another use-case:

I am curating a lot of interviews/hidden recordings right now. I am going to use them in a podcast. Because some of them has been recorded under very noisy circumstances, I have to do a lot of creative noise-reduction AND add a lot of eq, compression etc ... to make them listenable. Sometimes I make them sound the same way phone-calls sounds. Each take has it's own config. I curate all the recordings in one project, and from there I pull them into other projects for the specific podcasts I'll be making. Once they're in the new project, together with other clips, I have to make them fit together. Of course I can just not glue at all, but that means loading 100s of plugins. Superglue could really make that workflow rock!

[MonkeyBars]

Originally Posted by acebone

2. Will SuperGlue render an item if there is only an item VI and no trackFX?

No - it warns about a missing VI

(Would be awesome if it would render item VIs too)

This is a bug and is now #1 item on the roadmap.

3. Will Superglue accept a muted VI in trackFX and then render the item VI?

Yes, but it will render a silent audio-item.

I consider this a bug too – the pure MIDI guardrail should prevent it until feature implementation.

6. Can I unglue the item in the other project after track-copying?

No: "MB_Superglue-Utils.lua:2647: attempt to index a nil value (local 'item_state_chunks_table')"

7. Can I save the track as a track-template w. items, and load it into another project and unglue?

No again: "MB_Superglue-Utils.lua:2647: attempt to index a nil value (local 'item_state_chunks_table')"

Good edge case catch. Pool data is stored in the project's Master Track data (P_EXT), so the error is no surprise. Obviously no error like this should ever be thrown, though.

if you could transfer superglued items between projects without loosing the ability to unglue

Solving this would take some doing; paths might break, and simply copying the entire Master Track data chunk would break Superitems copied from other projects.

Currently, Superglue Pools are very tightly bound to the project they're in: since the user could copy or delete a given Superitem any number of times, Superglue Pool data is stored external to the Superitem itself. I didn't bundle up Pool data into tables very much in the interest of execution speed as editing one small part would require decompressing and recompressing every time, etc.

Given the multiproject support in the ReaScript API however, interproject Superitem transfers should in theory be very much possible to integrate. Therefore I have added the enhancement to the roadmap!

4. save the superglued idea in a special project for ideas (test 6 and 7 prohibits this)
- you always have your "idea-project" in a projecttab on the side, it doesn't take up many ressources...

Once they're in the new project, together with other clips, I have to make them fit together. Of course I can just not glue at all, but that means loading 100s of plugins. Superglue could really make that workflow rock!

Thank you for illustrating how Superglue could "supercharge" this very cool archival workflow!