Bug or Something Else?

[not_so_new]

So I am trying to get all selected MIDI items to open in the same editor view.... and it worked for me yesterday, but it's stopped working now and I can't get any settings to make it work again.

Very odd.

I have tried a bunch of things in the Preferences >> MIDI Editor configuration. Nothing I try works.

And again, this was just working for me last night.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance!

[nicholas]

Make sure media item linked to visibility is not ticked.

They might be there but out of sight? Try Contents, Track list and see if they are there. It might be as simple as using the little eye icons to display them.

Another thought is check that your filter settings are set to all channels.

[not_so_new]

Thanks Nicholas.

Originally Posted by nicholas

Make sure media item linked to visibility is not ticked.

Nope, not checked. And I tried a bunch of different variations on this with no luck.

They might be there but out of sight? Try Contents, Track list and see if they are there. It might be as simple as using the little eye icons to display them.

Not sure I am following this one but I can see all the MIDI tracks and I can open all of them individually in the MIDI editor. I just can't get any of them to open together in the same editor window.

Another thought is check that your filter settings are set to all channels.

Great idea... but that didn't do it either.

I really don't want to switch to another DAW for MIDI work but all the little MIDI quirks are starting to be a real drag on my process.

Thanks again for the ideas.

[not_so_new]

Oh and I don't know if this is related but....

Right around the time that I stopped being able to see multiple selected tracks in the same MIDI editor, I also stopped seeing markers in the MIDI editor. I used to be able to see track markers when the editor was open, that doesn't seem to be working either.

Is that a setting I can check on? I didn't change anything but maybe something else got changed without me knowing about it.

[nicholas]

... and you've selected One MIDI Editor per ptoject and Open all MIDI in the project?

If so, open MIDI Editor, then go Contents, Track List to open a panel which should list all the tracks in project.

You can expand these to list individual items. There is a series of icons against each item, one of which is a little eye - this toggles visibility on and off.

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

... and you've selected One MIDI Editor per ptoject and Open all MIDI in the project?

If so, open MIDI Editor, then go Contents, Track List to open a panel which should list all the tracks in project.

You can expand these to list individual items. There is a series of icons against each item, one of which is a little eye - this toggles visibility on and off.

Thanks Nicholas

That doesn't seem to work. Check out the screenshot in the link below. The MIDI editor screenshot is in a place in the session where all the tracks are probably playing something and you can see there is only one track in the editor view.

https://ibb.co/QP1P6LD

On a different subject, how do I place images in line?

[nofish]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

On a different subject, how do I place images in line?

You can use the [img][/img] tag.
https://forum.cockos.com/misc.php?do=bbcode#imgcode

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Thanks Nicholas

That doesn't seem to work. Check out the screenshot in the link below. The MIDI editor screenshot is in a place in the session where all the tracks are probably playing something and you can see there is only one track in the editor view.

https://ibb.co/QP1P6LD

Ah! You have MIDI item selection linked to visibility enabled! See my first post!

Naughty boy!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

Ah! You have MIDI item selection linked to visibility enabled! See my first post!

Naughty boy!

Ha!

That was actually a test that I forgot to change back. It still doesn't work with this checked or unchecked.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Ha!

That was actually a test that I forgot to change back. It still doesn't work with this checked or unchecked.

Bugger! Thought we'd nailed it.

OK, try a portable install of REAPER (in different directory obviously!) and see what happens when you open the file there. It could help with some clues.

[not_so_new]

https://ibb.co/tPtTQ3R

Linky ^^^ (still can't get the stupid image tags to work to a different site)

Maybe I am missing a different setting someplace in Reaper?

Also, note there are no markers in the editor. There are probably 10 markers in the section I posted. That's sort of new behavior as well. Is there something else I am missing?

[nicholas]

Try portable install in different folder , change prefs to One editor per project and Open all MIDI in project. Change nothing else. See if that works. If so we can start looking for clues.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

[url]
Also, note there are no markers in the editor. There are probably 10 markers in the section I posted. That's sort of new behavior as well. Is there something else I am missing?

In MIDI Editor, View, Piano roll ruler, Show project markers

[nicholas]

And ... just checking ...

Another possibility is that if you have ticked one item in the MIDI Editor Contents menu, then that will be made visible to the exclusion of all others.

you have tried clicking on the little symbol against each item in MIDI Editor Track List in fourth (toggle visibility) column?

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

In MIDI Editor, View, Piano roll ruler, Show project markers

Thanks.... you mean like this?

https://ibb.co/QPkWqQy

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

And ... just checking ...

Another possibility is that if you have ticked one item in the MIDI Editor Contents menu, then that will be made visible to the exclusion of all others.

you have tried clicking on the little symbol against each item in MIDI Editor Track List in fourth (toggle visibility) column?

I check a number of them and they say "Track items are visible"... odd huh? And this started with my last install, 5.9 something or other. I updated to 6.03 to see if it would fix anything. Obviously, it didn't so I was thinking it was a setting someplace.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Thanks.... you mean like this?

https://ibb.co/QPkWqQy

Yes, this seems to me seriously weird! I'm well nigh stumped.

Two questions:

1. Does this happen to every project or only thsi one?
2. Have you tried doing a portable instal to a different folder and opening the project there, then using the MIDI Editor Contents menu to set Behavior and Options?

[not_so_new]

Well, new project, same issues.

https://ibb.co/pv6M97g

Must be something with the install or config someplace. The problem there is that I have a pretty customized config for a bunch of other things so I don't want to blow away the whole config if I can help it.

The portable install doesn't mess with my current install does it? I assume it will not touch my default install, it only installs in the directory I choose right?

I wish there was an answer to this problem. I was thinking of going to Cubebase due to all the MIDI issues but I did a trial install and I kind of hate how it seems to work. I have been using Reaper for a decade, it's part of my workflow.

[xpander]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

The portable install doesn't mess with my current install does it? I assume it will not touch my default install, it only installs in the directory I choose right?

Correct. Portable install will be a totally separate entity, and all its resources are inside one main folder. Some people prefer portable installs because of this.

[not_so_new]

Okay, this gets more and more odd.

1. Created a new project in the portable install, worked as expected

2. Created a new project in the default install, didn't work as expected

Assumption A, something is wrong with my default config?

3. Opened the "problem project" in portable install, didn't work as expected

4. Opened an existing but different project in the default install, worked as expected

Assumption B, something is wrong with this specific project?

Hummm.... Assumption A is contradicted by #3. Assumption B is contradicted by #2.

Check out these screenshots, note how the track list in the "problem project" that doesn't work....

https://ibb.co/ch0zQc8

... looks different than the track list in the new project that does work....

https://ibb.co/fp4jrty

The track list for the "problem project" also behaves completely different from the projects that do work.

I have to assume Assumption B is correct (even with the contradiction of #2). Is there a way to "clean out" MIDI editing behavior in the project file somehow? Am I missing something else I should be looking at?


And THANK YOU for all the help everyone. Very much appreciated.

[xpander]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Check out these screenshots, note how the track list in the "problem project" that doesn't work....

Yep, noticed that in your earlier picture too. You seemed to have Violin 2 Sec track selected for editing, but all the tracks locked and none of them visible according to the track list icons.

Any chance for a small sample project where this problem exists? Stripped to bare bones, just enough tracks/items to verify the problem. If it is a project problem, that is...

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by xpander

Yep, noticed that in your earlier picture too. You seemed to have Violin 2 Sec track selected for editing, but all the tracks locked and none of them visible according to the track list icons.

Any chance for a small sample project where this problem exists? Stripped to bare bones, just enough tracks/items to verify the problem. If it is a project problem, that is...

I did a couple of hours of testing yesterday to come up with the post above.

Check out #2 in my post before yours. I think that example is what you are talking about? It was stripped bare bones. 4 tracks, no plugins, only a couple of bars long, pretty basic.

I just did another test, and it still didn't work. Screenshot below:

https://ibb.co/vwYFCz3

But... to make things more odd, old projects seem to be fine.

https://ibb.co/BgHdvFD

So a new project created at the time I am typing this didn't work, a project from last year or so seems to be fine.

???

I am so confused by that.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

So a new project created at the time I am typing this didn't work, a project from last year or so seems to be fine...
???

I'm almost entering the realm of superstition here, but in the absence of finding anything that make sense ...

Are you using a default project template? If so could there be something wrong with it? In any event, is it worth taking one of the projects that works, stripping it of content and saving it as a template for new projects and see if that helps?

Just a thought ...

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

I'm almost entering the realm of superstition here, but in the absence of finding anything that make sense ...

Are you using a default project template? If so could there be something wrong with it? In any event, is it worth taking one of the projects that works, stripping it of content and saving it as a template for new projects and see if that helps?

Just a thought ...

I know right? Just crazy. I scanned my machine for viruses as well, nothing.

And no, none of the projects in question started with a project template. The new project didn't work and that was a completely blank project, no tracks, no starting point. Started with a new project and clicked "insert >> new midi item"

I just don't know what to think.

And this current project is pretty involved, it's not like I can just start from scratch.



It's all pretty crazy. I just don't know what to try.

[not_so_new]

Is there anything else I can try? Anyone have any other things I should look into?

[xpander]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Check out #2 in my post before yours. I think that example is what you are talking about? It was stripped bare bones. 4 tracks, no plugins, only a couple of bars long, pretty basic.

If you could post a similar not working example project file here, maybe some of us could take a look at it?

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by xpander

If you could post a similar not working example project file here, maybe some of us could take a look at it?

That's a good idea.

Attached here. This is a simple 4 track MIDI project. Brand new, it has the same problems listed above.

Thank you SO MUCH for the help!

[nicholas]

I can give you gthe immediate feedback that opening this on my system produces exactly the same problems that you are encountering. This suggests the issue is with the RPP file, not REAPER config settings.

I'm about to investigate ...

[nicholas]

So far I've discovered this:

It looks like the items were grouped, but ungrouping them makes no difference.

All tracks/items show up as expected and can be edited in Notation View (but only notation view), where behavior is as expected. Event list view shows only one track.

Exporting project MIDI as .MID file exports only one track (track 3) - REAPER appears to just not see the others as there when I import it bacl - nor does MuseScore.

The issue seems to be with the MIDI items themselves somehow. If I delete them with their tracks and and create new tracks and new items in this project everything seems OK here.

Don't know if any of this helps. I'll look again later...

PS Someone with more knowledge of code than I have could probably solve this by opening the RPP file in Notepad ...

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

So far I've discovered this:

It looks like the items were grouped, but ungrouping them makes no difference.

All tracks/items show up as expected and can be edited in Notation View (but only notation view), where behavior is as expected. Event list view shows only one track.

Exporting project MIDI as .MID file exports only one track (track 3) - REAPER appears to just not see the others as there when I import it bacl - nor does MuseScore.

The issue seems to be with the MIDI items themselves somehow. If I delete them with their tracks and and create new tracks and new items in this project everything seems OK here.

Don't know if any of this helps. I'll look again later...

PS Someone with more knowledge of code than I have could probably solve this by opening the RPP file in Notepad ...

Thanks for the great feedback Nicholas!

To continue along with this same thinking, I just tested this again in the portable install and came up with the same outcome as above.

Originally Posted by ME

1. Created a new project in the portable install, worked as expected

Then I opened the project I uploaded above into my portable install and I get the same result as you got from the same uploaded "Test" project.

It's almost like something in my default install is getting written into any new project I am creating. As if there is something wrong with the project file my default install is creating.

And I agree with you, it would help if someone who has more coding experience could look at this. Something seems really odd.

[xpander]

Thanks for the example project. Ok, I think I got something.

Here are the CFGEDIT strings of all four items from the project file:

CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 532 33 1253 750 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 0.36 64
CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 532 33 1253 750 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 1 64
CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 528 37 1249 754 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 1 64
CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 532 33 1253 750 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 1 64

Note the 19th value which is 4 for all these items. 19th value in CFGEDIT is for the timebase. They are: 0 for the Project beats, 1 for the Project sync, 2 for the Project time and 4 for the Source beats.

Thing with the source beats timebase is that it displays items without project contents like other items, markers etc.

To change this, go to View/Piano roll timebase in MIDI editor menu and change timebase to something else, e.g. Project beats (default).

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by xpander

Thanks for the example project. Ok, I think I got something.

Here are the CFGEDIT strings of all four items from the project file:

CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 532 33 1253 750 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 0.36 64
CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 532 33 1253 750 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 1 64
CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 528 37 1249 754 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 1 64
CFGEDIT 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 1 0.25 532 33 1253 750 0 0 4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0.5 0 0 1 64

Note the 19th value which is 4 for all these items. 19th value in CFGEDIT is for the timebase. They are: 0 for the Project beats, 1 for the Project sync, 2 for the Project time and 4 for the Source beats.

Thing with the source beats timebase is that it displays items without project contents like other items, markers etc.

To change this, go to View/Piano roll timebase in MIDI editor menu and change timebase to something else, e.g. Project beats (default).

Ahhh... interesting...

So I don't know if you saw my post right above yours. It seems like my base install is now adding something into all of my new projects because this behavior is showing up in all new projects but not in past projects.

Is there something I should look into within the config someplace on my base install as well?

And thanks again for all the help!

[xpander]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

It seems like my base install is now adding something into all of my new projects because this behavior is showing up in all new projects but not in past projects.

Ok, change the timebase in the MIDI editor View menu. Then go to the main File/Project settings menu and Save as default project settings. After that all new items should get the timebase you selected.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by xpander

Ok, change the timebase in the MIDI editor View menu. Then go to the main File/Project settings menu and Save as default project settings. After that all new items should get the timebase you selected.

Well done, you have contributed to preserving my sanity! Yes, changing timebase to project beats has fixed it here!

[xpander]

Originally Posted by nicholas

Well done, you ahve contributed to preserving my sanity! Yes, changing timebase to project beats has fixed it here!

Np, Nicholas. You started the ground work with this and had already ticked off things from the check list, so it was that much easier for me. I have actually battled with the source beats timebase myself years ago, but still didn't manage to realize what was going on here until checking the CFGEDIT lines. Now let's hope not_so_new gets the settings going as well.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by xpander

Now let's hope not_so_new gets the settings going as well.

He should wake up to a nice surprise!

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by xpander

Np, Nicholas. You started the ground work with this and had already ticked off things from the check list, so it was that much easier for me. I have actually battled with the source beats timebase myself years ago, but still didn't manage to realize what was going on here until checking the CFGEDIT lines. Now let's hope not_so_new gets the settings going as well.

He did!!!

Yes, IT WORKS. You guys are AWSOME! Seriously, you are the gold star winners of the week.

I got this session working and saving the default project settings seems to have fixed things for new sessiosn as well.

Thank you SO much.

So here is what I don't understand. How is it that project time base settings effect track editing and visibility? Or to put it shortly, what h*ll did I just fix? I love learning things and I don't understand how these settings interact so I am just wondering what is going on.

Again, thank you very very much.

[nicholas]

Originally Posted by not_so_new

So here is what I don't understand. How is it that project time base settings effect track editing and visibility?

Beats me, sorry! ; My best guess would be because when you have multiple items in the one editor you have multiple sources, so setting this to source beats might confuse it? Anyway, I'm adding a note about this to the user guide.

With 20/20 hindsight I should have picked up the clue from the fact that your markers weren't showing up in the MIDI Editor. But, like you, it never occurred to me for one moment that setting timebase to source beats would stuff everything up like that!

Ah well, all's well, that ....

[not_so_new]

Originally Posted by nicholas

Beats me, sorry! ; My best guess would be because when you have multiple items in the one editor you have multiple sources, so setting this to source beats might confuse it? Anyway, I'm adding a note about this to the user guide.

With 20/20 hindsight I should have picked up the clue from the fact that your markers weren't showing up in the MIDI Editor. But, like you, it never occurred to me for one moment that setting timebase to source beats would stuff everything up like that!

Ah well, all's well, that ....

Cool, thanks again for your help!

And I have one other question that might be related (or not, I am not exactly sure).

I have a bunch of markers in the project and also some tempo change markers as well. If I change the tempo markers to a new tempo all the other markers get out of sync with the event I am trying to document (as in, I have "standard" markers set up for chord changes but when I change the tempo the chord changes don't line up with the actual cords in the MIDI items).

Is there a way to link the standard markers to have them move with tempo changes?

Thanks again