Linux not ready for audio production

[Jae.Thomas]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

Ok dad.

Enjoy trolling the Linux forum, You know, the forum for the operating system you would rather use but are too scared to because you might have to use your brain for a few seconds.

you're right - tbh tho you look a bit more like MY dad

I guess I just want my brains focusing on music.

but then wait... why am I here?!?!?!

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

you're right - tbh tho you look a bit more like MY dad

I'm 47, so I would assume that's the case.

I don't get the whole "it's too much work to use Linux" thing. There's Reaper native on Linux now. You have an RME interface. You're set. And you'll most likely see a performance increase when you switch to Linux.

But if you are an entrenched user who doesn't want to walk away from certain plugins which are Windows-only, I get it. I wouldn't want to bother bridging them either (even though other Linux users don't mind doing that).

If you're secretly trying to come out of the Windows closet (or leave the Church of Windows) and use Linux instead, we're here for you. And I'd strongly encourage making your voice heard, if that's the case, specifically to software developers who are too stubborn to make Linux versions of their plugins. Let them know Reaper is native in Linux now, and uses Linux VST. They're running out of excuses to avoid Linux. The only thing that "isn't ready for audio production" in Linux is them.

[Jae.Thomas]

you're right - I would want to do that. I remember back in the day just wanting my old laptop to only run music stuff. Nowadays im far too much into the multitasking.

Maybe I will try again after all, but that means I'd need a break in all the work im doing. So chances are unless I join another cult, go through another breakdown and have to move away and start anew.... I mean there's almost certain cancer in my future so maybe then. (I joke to deal with it)

FYI if you look like that at 47 good job mate

[Jae.Thomas]

wait one fucking second.

For mobile recording, i still use my RME, it's in a rack I can detach from my other rack stuff...


and linux would actually be IDEAL since I don't want to risk my less powered laptop potentially fucking up IF linux is actually more stable...

and I don't really need all my apps on linux.

...


.....


........

ya got me, you fucker

[JamesPeters]

lol. Well it wouldn't hurt to try it on a second computer anyway. I had tried Linux using dual-boot with Windows about 10 years ago, and although I could get it to work for audio (using Ardour, at the time) it certainly wasn't like using Reaper in 2018. I resolved to give it a good shot, seeing if I could live with Linux for most things and boot to Windows for audio (and maybe gradually use Linux for audio more as time went on). But the dual-boot arrangement messed up my Windows portion of the boot manager...it was a pain to fix it. So if you do plan to try dual-boot, research it in advance just in case (I hear that some distros are still a bit of a pain for this). If it's a matter of just format/install on a fresh computer though (Linux-only), it'll probably go smoothly.

So I guess choosing a distro is one of the first things to consider. What I'm using (MX Linux) is what they call "mid-weight" for a distro, but I'd call it "lightweight" compared to Windows 7. I'm not using a realtime kernel, and all I had to do was set the CPU frequency scaling to "performance" (like setting your power options in Windows to "performance" so your CPU operates at a higher frequency all the time). Oh and I had to set my video driver to the Intel one instead of the default--installed generic video driver (just a check box to tick). After that (literally, that's all I had to do), doing "apples to apples" tests (using Reaper and some Reaper plugins, both in Windows 7 and Linux), I noticed significantly better performance when loading the CPU. It's not even a subtle difference; it's around 30% more efficient and it feels more fluid too.

There's a thread on this forum about choosing a distro. You might want to look through that. I wanted to pick something which was efficient as reasonably possible, but also popular and well-maintained, has lots of different software repos for it, doesn't require much in terms of command-line stuff to maintain it, and doesn't run "too lean" (possibly having dependency issues) or run as root all the time (I want the system to be more secure). And I wanted to avoid Ubuntu-based distros because of how I feel about this (although that's me being pickier than I have to be, since Unity isn't even a thing anymore).

Another thing you might want to check in advance: if your computer's particular wireless adapter is supported. That was kind of a pain for a while, but lately apparently things are a lot better in that regard.

Oh that profile pic of me is from 10 years ago. I look the same now but with about 40% more grey hair and deeper crows feet.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

But if you are an entrenched user who doesn't want to walk away from certain plugins which are Windows-only, I get it. I wouldn't want to bother bridging them either (even though other Linux users don't mind doing that).

I look at bridging Windows plugins to Linux much as I looked at bridging 32 bit plugins when I went to 64 bit Windows. It let me keep using my plugins so I could find 64 bit replacements at my leisure, not having to worry about having no plugins to work with.

Switching it Linux did however remind me that I used to make music with no problems, using nothing more than a single DBX160, a Roland Space Echo, and an Alesis MidiVerb for effects. I'm pretty confident that I could make decent sounding recordings using nothing but good miking techniques, and decent playing as well.

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

I look at bridging Windows plugins to Linux much as I looked at bridging 32 bit plugins when I went to 64 bit Windows. It let me keep using my plugins so I could find 64 bit replacements at my leisure, not having to worry about having no plugins to work with.

Switching it Linux did however remind me that I used to make music with no problems, using nothing more than a single DBX160, a Roland Space Echo, and an Alesis MidiVerb for effects. I'm pretty confident that I could make decent sounding recordings using nothing but good miking techniques, and decent playing as well.

Yeah I used to record on a cassette-based 4-track, and using one of those tracks to sync to MIDI for a drum machine. I managed to make good recordings. And using Cakewalk Home Studio 4 on my first PC, despite not being able to run any realtime plugins (and the fact the software was buggy to the point of crashing Windows every so often), using it as a glorified "tape deck", I managed to make an excellent-sounding recording of a friend's band.

I got spoiled over the years, and when I finally looked with a critical eye at what I was considering important for plugins, it hit me that I still didn't really know how to use a compressor (I mean to truly understand it, for all kinds of dynamics). Once I spent time learning that (and also better practise for recording, EQing, etc., which all came along with it), it opened my eyes. I could delete most of my plugins and it wouldn't even matter. That's when all my 32-bit plugins got deleted permanently.

Since then I've known if I don't get a good recording/mix, it's because of me and not because what plugins I'm using.

[Jae.Thomas]

for me, it's more a matter of speed - I can get the sound I want with a bunch of slate and izotope plugins pretty easily....

to do the same with any old thing will eventually work, but not as quick. And I have to be quick with what I do -

[JamesPeters]

Yeah, joking aside I understand that. When people make it out as though it's "impossible" or something, I don't agree. But if you're used to a certain workflow and you're told "hey wouldn't you like to go back to the way it was 10 years ago?", it's not appealing. Maybe now with Reaper for Linux, more plugin developers will release Linux VST versions.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

for me, it's more a matter of speed - I can get the sound I want with a bunch of slate and izotope plugins pretty easily....

to do the same with any old thing will eventually work, but not as quick. And I have to be quick with what I do -

And for me, that's the reason I spent a little bit of time getting all my Windows plugins to work in Linux. Now I have pretty much the same tool set in both Windows and Linux, and can stay in Linux which I prefer to do for the following reasons.

1. Linux patches my CPU with microcode that mitigates Spectre.
2. Linux doesn't profile me or make money off of profiling me.
3. Linux doesn't end long term support in January of 2020.

Yeah, I could run Windows 10 which *might* address the microcode fix for my CPU (it's the very last one Intel did a fix for), but at a very high cost of being Microsoft's product, which ain't happening at all for me.

-

[Jack Winter]

Originally Posted by kytdkut

Oh, sorry, I completely forgot about checking the forum, hope you're still in time to get the bundle (these are one of the best plugins I ever used... I'm using them in all my projects)

I don't have any specific advice on how to make iLok License Manager to run

Specs are these:

Arch Linux, 4.19.5(-ck, not relevant), wine(-tkg —again, not relevant, this did work with wine-staging)

Will install on a fresh wineprefix and see what overrides it needs

No problems, I managed to get it working in time, so now have quite a few more soundtoys plugins And finally echoboy is running in Reaper for Linux, so well pleased.

I didn't need any overrides, just wine 3.21 was ok. I did however fail to get it working with wine-staging 3.21.

Thanks for headsup, I would have thought this an impossible enterprise

[Klangfarben]

Aha, will try installing regular wine instead of staging.

[kytdkut]

Originally Posted by Jack Winter

No problems, I managed to get it working in time, so now have quite a few more soundtoys plugins And finally echoboy is running in Reaper for Linux, so well pleased.

I didn't need any overrides, just wine 3.21 was ok. I did however fail to get it working with wine-staging 3.21.

Thanks for headsup, I would have thought this an impossible enterprise

Glad you got it working

[bommaren]

http://www.bandshed.net/avlinux/

https://bandshed.net/forum/index.php

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=avlinux

This is a distribution preconfigured with the correct versions of programs to cooperate to produce a problem free sound and video work environment.

Good documentation is also part of the release.

[calimerox]

+1 bommaren

this is a good starting point for linux audio. good thing on AVLinux also is you can make a live version on a stick and test things without changing your system..

"linux not ready for audio production?"

I run a linux only sound studio for 10 years and never looked back.


yes if you want all your win vsts run in linux you run into issues and problems, as they are programmed to run on win. but think about it: would you try to run linux software on a win computer or try to install android apps on an iphone thinking all goes smooth right away? If you have the right tools set up in win and you can´t afford to miss them, simply stick to win. there is nothing bad about it. it s important that it works for you.

[lahayim]

Hey @kytdkut ~~~ do you mind sharing how you got the iLok/PACE license software installed without errors on Linux? I've been trying for over a week on Ubuntu 22.04 / wine with no luck. I always get an error during installation along the lines of "pnputil could not set up the program configuration" ... the software still installs ok, and seems to be able to connect to my iLOK account, but still the third party VST managers like UA Connect are unable to get my licenses.

Originally Posted by kytdkut

Hijacking to say: authorizing plugins via iLok License Manager is working for me. I'm currently using some Eventide stuff and the Soundtoys bundle (probably can't live without these).

Back in thread: Kontakt is a complex bit of software, it has its quirks even on Windows IIRC. Other (W$) plugins work fine. I'm kind of done searching plugins, with u-He, Soundtoys, and Airwindows (!!!) stuff I'm happy. But anyways I hate big samplers so maybe my case would be different if my workflow relied on them.

[lahayim]

As many people have said, I'll add a +1 --- Linux is definitely ready for pro-audio production. I know because I do it. The DAWs are there (notably - Reaper). Finding a good compatible interface can be tricky, but class-compliant options with high quality converters *are* out there. I use a Motu Ultralite AVB for most of my studio work - but always eyeing other options.

Plug-ins are equally tricky. You might have to give up on some plugins you're used to in Windows because only a few of what would be considered "studio pro" developers provide Linux compiled VSTs (U-he is notable here!). This is especially annoying because compiling a VST for Linux once you have the source code is pretty trivial... That being said, even most Windows-compiled VSTs can be run on Linux using yabridge (I use yabridge to run all my beloved Fabfilter plugins, and a few great Arturia plugins).

The other extremely annoying bit is that many high-end plug-in developers use iLok for their license management (Softube, Universal Audio, etc..). For some crazy reason, iLok/PACE do not support Linux (this is supposed to be a "universal" license management system mind you!) ... so in the case of these plug-in developers, even if they compiled their VSTs for Linux, the licensing distribution system they rely on wouldn't support it. I'm still trying to get iLok working in wine with varied results, but I haven't yet gotten to the point where I can run my UAD plug-ins on my Linux system (I run a dual boot system and do my UAD stuff in Windows, then freeze the tracks and continue working on Linux).

All that being said: there are MANY options for plug-ins that do everything you would need in a pro production studio, and one does not have to rely on companies like UAD or Native Instruments. It requires a leap of faith, and time to explore what's out there.

Originally Posted by Equal

Hi,

I am going to pose a question/statement which has been on my mind for a while and would like to ask you opinion.

It seems to me that linux (ubuntu 18 in my case) is just still not ready for professionally doing audio production.

Some plugins don't work with any bridge.
My version of Kontakt always crashes on first load and keeps taking away cpu. After first load it works moderately ok. Same goes for the free version of Kontakt.

The sample plug-in from spitfire audio (Labs) just does not recognize the library location or something else is bugging it.


All in all I just feel tired of finding workarounds for everything. I feel ready to switch back to windows, where reaper and all other software works like a charm... out of the box.

What do you guys say?

[/AND/]

Linux is ready, you are not ready for Linux. Use only Linux-native plugins, and you'll do musical wonders. This sums it up perfectly:

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

If you need some specific Windows-only software to run, then for you that's a bit of a different story. But it's not the fault of Linux. That's the fault of the developers who will not make their software for it. In a number of ways it's actually a better platform for a DAW than Windows or OSX.

Imagine having the pure magical ability to run plugins built for a completely different platform, and complain how they are sometimes buggy or don't work. Why don't you try running Windows-only plugins on Mac then?

[Jae.Thomas]

From what I'm seeing I most definitely have changed my position on Linux. It seems lots of people are having success with Windows plugins and overall workflow!

I think eventually it's something I will try.

[michael diemer]

Originally Posted by lahayim

Hey @kytdkut ~~~ do you mind sharing how you got the iLok/PACE license software installed without errors on Linux? I've been trying for over a week on Ubuntu 22.04 / wine with no luck. I always get an error during installation along the lines of "pnputil could not set up the program configuration" ... the software still installs ok, and seems to be able to connect to my iLOK account, but still the third party VST managers like UA Connect are unable to get my licenses.

I had no problem using Wine Staging version 7.2. It just installed and worked. It may be a problem with your Wine version. Or you may need to configure Wine differently (If configured for Windows 10, try Windows 7, for example). Or it could be the distro you are running. I'm using Mint 21.

I'm using LinVst to convert a few Cakewalk plugins (LP 64 EQ and multiband compressor, Sonitus reverb, Tube leveler and Perfect space reverb - although I also use the LV2 version of LSP plugins reverb, which does seem to work better).

Also, I'm running Garritan Personal Orchestra, Cinematic Strings, Cine Samples Orchestra Core, Vienna Instruments Special Edition, Epic Orchestra and Synchronized Appassionata Strings. and the Cakewalk Dimension Pro (although I actually use their Rapture Session synth to load the instruments, which is newer and loads much faster.

The Vienna Synchron player occasionally crashes, but I just reload it and then it's fine. The Vienna Instruments Player however is rock solid.

For ilok to work on my Vienna libraries, I had to do the cloud thing, dongles are something nobody has figured out yet. The only libraries I can't get to work are East West, but I can easily do without them. Anything that works on Kontakt will work on Linux, provided it's Kontakt 6, or earlier. also, use Native Access 1, version 2 does not seem to work.

sure, you get problems now and then. but that also is the case with windows, mac, and pretty much all software. you fix it and move on.

Addendum: I forgot to mention that I use wine staging, not regular wine. This is an important point!

[Primeval Mudd]

Things have definitely improved since this thread dropped away in 2018!

[4duhwinnn]

Originally Posted by lahayim

Hey @kytdkut ~~~ do you mind sharing how you got the iLok/PACE license software installed without errors on Linux? I've been trying for over a week on Ubuntu 22.04 / wine with no luck. I always get an error during installation along the lines of "pnputil could not set up the program configuration" ... the software still installs ok, and seems to be able to connect to my iLOK account, but still the third party VST managers like UA Connect are unable to get my licenses.

Tavasti at linuxmusicians.com gave these tips for installing ilok software manager, using the example of the AIR Music Tech Strike V2 plugin,
using:

"wine-8.6 (Staging). Critical thing is that install ilok before plugin, and don't let plugin installer update/fix that. When you get dialog asking 'fix bonjour/ilok', say cancel to that one. This is the way with any iLok plugin, don't let plugins to mess that.

And that content install does not work. Create directory like 'ProgramData/AIR Music Technology/Strike' (Name/location is not significant, anyway you need to point that to plugin on first run), put there all those *.big files, and create those subdirs I wrote. And same things with content copy apply to Air Xpand2! content installation."

Hope this helps.
Cheers

[Nullifer]

Sorry to burst in
But I would personally need help trying to get tone boosters reelbus 4 magnetic tape recording plugin to work. Any time I try to touch something that has to do with wine my system goes kaput.
Unless someone knows of an alternative Vst ( preferably free) the way it works and makes it feel like an actual tape/analogue master.. i kind of need it.

I tried to use yabridge, but that didn't go to well. Seriously every time I touch wine everything goes to hell.
Anyone know how to "Snapshot" ext4 system (i know its not small like btrfs, but ext4 feels smoother to me)

Sorry for rambling

[mschnell]

Originally Posted by Nullifer

Unless someone knows of an alternative Vst ( preferably free) the way it works and makes it feel like an actual tape/analogue master.. i kind of need it.

You might want to try the Tape emulation by Tukan, available via ReaPack. (supposedly the new version is contained in the "2" packet of his (great) work. (A JSFX plugin instead of a VST hence independent of the underlying OS)

[dylan.w]

Originally Posted by Nullifer

Unless someone knows of an alternative Vst ( preferably free) the way it works and makes it feel like an actual tape/analogue master.. i kind of need it.

Check out Chow Tape (is free and good quality): https://chowdsp.com/products.html