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Old 05-25-2020, 07:30 AM   #1
Soli Deo Gloria
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Default Time Critical value in Ubuntu Studio

Continuing from a derived discussion in the "Some crashes with Ubuntu Studio" thread I started recently - and for the sake of having the info on this topic more easily available, as I think it could be of importance for newbie users like me - , I'd like to ask the seasoned users something about the time critical value one sees when starting Reaper from the terminal :

jack: setting TIME CRITICAL=4

In my case, the reported value is 4, while I see that other users report 74 as the default value. What am I missing here? My rtprio setting in /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf is 95, and I tried setting Qjackctl real-time priority to 80, as 4duhwinnn commented in the other thread. Anyway, the shown value for time critical differs vastly in my case (unless there was some kind of bug and "4" means "74" in this context, with the 7 omitted, but that would be too bizarre to even consider it).

Just in case, my audio.conf file settings are these :

@audio - rtprio 95
@audio - memlock unlimited
#@audio - nice -19

Any hint about this? Should I worry about it or just ignore it?


Thanks in advance.

Last edited by Soli Deo Gloria; 05-31-2020 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:44 PM   #2
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Linux real-time process priority you can read it here:https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...ority-in-linux this is what they are talking about... IMO
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:23 PM   #3
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I don't think 74 was a default value, maybe a coincidence?

Anyway, I have an maudio 2496 pci soundcard, and these are
my .jackdrc settings, for comparison:

/usr/bin/jackd -P80 -dalsa -r44100 -p256 -n2 -D -Chw:M2496 -Phw:M2496

The linux U-he synth/effects downloads are in the first post here:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...f=292&t=538894

I suggest use Diva synth to test, pick a preset heavy on cpu,
use it on your current settings, play fast, press sustain pedal etc,
trying to crush the cpu, then do same test a few times
with other quite different settings,
and see if conclusions can be drawn.

(the U-he archives when open have an install script
that creates a .u-he folder in /home/you, containing the plugin
and it's presets, fonts etc, and a u-he folder
in /home/you/.vst with links from the plugin you installed.)
Cheers
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Old 05-27-2020, 08:46 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies, s wave and 4duhwinnn!

Quote:
Originally Posted by s wave View Post
Linux real-time process priority you can read it here:https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...ority-in-linux this is what they are talking about... IMO
To be honest, it's still not clear to me whether the scale is supposed to be as it would intuitively seem (high values correspond to high priority), or inverted. There are differing opinions in the same thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
I don't think 74 was a default value, maybe a coincidence?




Anyway, I have an maudio 2496 pci soundcard, and these are
my .jackdrc settings, for comparison:



/usr/bin/jackd -P80 -dalsa -r44100 -p256 -n2 -D -Chw:M2496 -Phw:M2496

The linux U-he synth/effects downloads are in the first post here:

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...f=292&t=538894

I suggest use Diva synth to test, pick a preset heavy on cpu,
use it on your current settings, play fast, press sustain pedal etc,
trying to crush the cpu, then do same test a few times
with other quite different settings,
and see if conclusions can be drawn.

(the U-he archives when open have an install script
that creates a .u-he folder in /home/you, containing the plugin
and it's presets, fonts etc, and a u-he folder
in /home/you/.vst with links from the plugin you installed.)
Cheers

Well, my jackdrc settings were :

/usr/bin/jackd -dalsa -dhw:K6 -r48000 -p128 -n3

So I added the -P80 of your settings, but it doesn't seem to make any difference in the performance.

Regarding Diva, I installed the demo and played fast, pedal-sustained notes with the 3EE_Syupa So patch from the default Dream Synth bank, which seems heavy enough for test purposes. I also bent the pitch like crazy while doing so. My CPU usage reaches 9.15%, which, for my taste, is extremely high for a single synth passage, but good enough in terms of what I've read about this instrument, I think. No glitches are discernible, apart from the demo ones after two minutes. You'l l say if this is a good performance or not with an I7 3770K machine from 2013, with 32 Gbs of RAM and SSDs.

Needless to say, the idea is to set once and forget all about this, really. I'm just assuring that I'm alright with the basic setup (and learning the basics of Linux audio). I asked about this mainly because the different value in my terminal seemed intriguing , and I wanted to check if everything was fine here. The difference is still there (TIME CRITICAL = 4), but if there's no performance problem, I suppose I can forget about it...
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
TSo I added the -P80 of your settings, but it doesn't seem to make any difference in the performance.
Issue the command,

ulimit -a

in your terminal window that you are launching REAPER from. Look for the real-time priority line. Mine says the following,

real-time priority (-r) 98

and when I was using a pair of M-Audio PCI based cards adding the -P80 made night and day difference for me. I no longer use JACK though, and have also since switched to an external USB interface, so in REAPER I'm using ALSA now.
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Old 05-28-2020, 08:29 PM   #6
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Well, according to the ulimit command, the rt priority is 95. So, that marks the end of the question, I guess. The -P80 setting didn't seem to make any difference, but I'm seeing good results regarding CPU usage (more or less like Windows, I 'd say. Now, the only problem occurs with Kontakt and some stutter when I play live with it, most probably from disk streaming... but that will need a dedicated thread.
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Old 05-29-2020, 05:35 AM   #7
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Just to be sure, also type Groups in the Terminal, results should say "audio" also.
If not, then: sudo groupadd audio
And we want your user in there also: sudo usermod -a -G audio $USER

If you are not, then i don't think you are allowed to do any prio/mem'magic ? reboot is required also

And i am using ALSA only, much simpler life and, when i tried Ubuntu Studio 20.10 (Groovy Gorilla) Daily Build, i used Studio Controls to actually turn everything off, Jack, MIDI, Pulse, all of it! and all my issues with ALSA was/is gone, just saying
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:23 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post

Just in case, my audio.conf file settings are these :
hmm,

etc/security/limits.conf

is the one i am editing, if that is any diff? i see and hear a clear difference with only:

etc/security/limits.conf

# audio group

@audio - rtprio 95
@audio - memlock unlimited

And i'm doing OK, guess i might have improvements to collect also

And i don't have Studio Controls, Performance knobs, so i do:

echo performance | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_governor

and if you wanna see the freq/MHz, then

watch -n 1 "cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "^[c]pu MHz""

And on KDE, i dissable power management "battery and brightness" manually, not measured the difference, just a tip i got, might be a good idea, so, SmajjL obeys
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Old 05-30-2020, 11:01 PM   #9
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Well, my /etc/security/limits.conf file has this inside :



# /etc/security/limits.conf
#
#Each line describes a limit for a user in the form:
#
#<domain> <type> <item> <value>
#
#Where:
#<domain> can be:
# - a user name
# - a group name, with @group syntax
# - the wildcard *, for default entry
# - the wildcard %, can be also used with %group syntax,
# for maxlogin limit
# - NOTE: group and wildcard limits are not applied to root.
# To apply a limit to the root user, <domain> must be
# the literal username root.
#
#<type> can have the two values:
# - "soft" for enforcing the soft limits
# - "hard" for enforcing hard limits
#
#<item> can be one of the following:
# - core - limits the core file size (KB)
# - data - max data size (KB)
# - fsize - maximum filesize (KB)
# - memlock - max locked-in-memory address space (KB)
# - nofile - max number of open file descriptors
# - rss - max resident set size (KB)
# - stack - max stack size (KB)
# - cpu - max CPU time (MIN)
# - nproc - max number of processes
# - as - address space limit (KB)
# - maxlogins - max number of logins for this user
# - maxsyslogins - max number of logins on the system
# - priority - the priority to run user process with
# - locks - max number of file locks the user can hold
# - sigpending - max number of pending signals
# - msgqueue - max memory used by POSIX message queues (bytes)
# - nice - max nice priority allowed to raise to values: [-20, 19]
# - rtprio - max realtime priority
# - chroot - change root to directory (Debian-specific)
#
#<domain> <type> <item> <value>
#

#* soft core 0
#root hard core 100000
#* hard rss 10000
#@student hard nproc 20
#@faculty soft nproc 20
#@faculty hard nproc 50
#ftp hard nproc 0
#ftp - chroot /ftp
#@student - maxlogins 4

# End of file




And the Freq/Mhz command shows this :



Every 1.0s: cat /proc/cpui...


grep: MHz: No such file or directory




I don't know if you can infere anything from these results...
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Old 05-31-2020, 05:55 AM   #10
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Ahh, I see text with # before it i assume does nothing on purpose (place holder info) but @ will, so for example, # audio group is just info/practical to read, here, after editing, the end would look like:

#* soft core 0
#* hard rss 10000
#@student hard nproc 20
#@faculty soft nproc 20
#@faculty hard nproc 50
#ftp hard nproc 0
#@student - maxlogins 4

# audio group

@audio - rtprio 95
@audio - memlock unlimited

# End of file


--

The, watch -n 1 "cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep "^[c]pu MHz""
is just bonus info for you, good party trick to know and.. i can say, you are not crazy, i have had that result myself, one time
You can close it and try again, but this time, using CTRL+ALT + T
Or, search your menu for Terminal/Console try again, not sure why atm
hmm, hope it is not an Arch/Manjaro only thing, hmm, just bonus info anyway
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:36 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Ahh, I see text with # before it i assume does nothing on purpose (place holder info) but @ will, so for example, # audio group is just info/practical to read, here, after editing, the end would look like:

#* soft core 0
#* hard rss 10000
#@student hard nproc 20
#@faculty soft nproc 20
#@faculty hard nproc 50
#ftp hard nproc 0
#@student - maxlogins 4

# audio group

@audio - rtprio 95
@audio - memlock unlimited

# End of file


--
I checked my file and rather than an audio group, mine was set to my user with,

@glennbo - rtprio 98
@glennbo - memlock unlimited

I suppose a user would inherit settings from the group they are part of, and yes the "#" symbol comments lines from being executed.
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I checked my file and rather than an audio group, mine was set to my user with,

@glennbo - rtprio 98
@glennbo - memlock unlimited

I suppose a user would inherit settings from the group they are part of, and yes the "#" symbol comments lines from being executed.

That would work also but i'm thinking now, is maby your way safer from a security aspect, or nah? (our glennbo is veeeery security thinker) beeing in a audio group is "just fine" also?
I've just thrown myself into the audio group with, sudo usermod -a -G audio $USER (that would be me)

I will try 98 also (because i can)
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:00 AM   #13
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Those values appear in my /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf file. Is that Ok? Could I edit them and change @audio for @<myusername>? Or should I add those edited values to /etc/security/limits.conf which, as both of you comment, is prevented from executing anything?

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Old 05-31-2020, 07:03 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
That would work also but i'm thinking now, is maby your way safer from a security aspect, or nah? (our glennbo is veeeery security thinker) beeing in a audio group is "just fine" also?
I've just thrown myself into the audio group with, sudo usermod -a -G audio $USER (that would be me)

I will try 98 also (because i can)
I set mine up like that when I was getting help from Jack Winter and I didn't know anything about Linux. I still don't know anything about it, yet everything works!

Hehe, all the ha><ors out there are now scheming to become members of your audio group so they can have all the memory and speed they need!
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
I set mine up like that when I was getting help from Jack Winter and I didn't know anything about Linux. I still don't know anything about it, yet everything works!

Hehe, all the ha><ors out there are now scheming to become members of your audio group so they can have all the memory and speed they need!

LoL, i'm not that! paranoid but yeah, i will do it like Jack&Glenn next round/lap
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:17 AM   #16
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the "jack: setting TIME_CRITICAL = " value is what is returned by jack_client_real_time_priority() minus 1. So that's the realtime priority that JACK is configured to use (sounds like you have it configured to 5).
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:22 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Those values appear in my /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf file. Is that Ok? Could I edit them and change @audio for @sdg? Or should I add those edited values to /etc/security/limits.conf which, as both of you comment, is prevented from executing anything?
I am myself using it via /etc/security/limits.conf , i have simply for some reason not tried it with the audio.conf, yet
But either way, you would edit it the same way, depending if you are added to the audio group or do it like glennbo, both ways can work and i will try glennbo's way myself next time

Sorry for the noise if you need a straight answer both ways can work and i am sure my way will work, but if audio.conf works with the way Glennbo is doing it, why not?
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Hehe, all the ha><ors out there are now scheming to become members of your audio group so they can have all the memory and speed they need!

That's a joke, isn't it? Is it that easy to intrude a machine, simply with a <usrnm>?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
the "jack: setting TIME_CRITICAL = " value is what is returned by jack_client_real_time_priority() minus 1. So that's the realtime priority that JACK is configured to use (sounds like you have it configured to 5).

Hmm, thanks for the tip, Justin! I'll have to take another look at Jack's settings. I simply thought that Ubuntu Studio had all pre-configured in the best way, but I could have changed something, without realizing, along the way.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Sorry for the noise if you need a straight answer both ways can work and i am sure my way will work, but if audio.conf works with the way Glennbo is doing it, why not?

No, thank all of you for the feedback! My first goals are more than achieved with Linux - a nice, secure environment for all the daily tasks and most of musical duties -. The fine-tuning I'm trying to achieve now, is mostly headed to see if I can fully use Komplete 10 in my Linux setup. Seeing other users' success stories around encourages me to pursuit that goal.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:16 AM   #19
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As for more bonus info (on your free time only)

Since i seem to stick with Manjaro's ways/workflow i found this guy.

This is the world of Linux/Audio/Manjaro how you can do things there and i think he did a good job demonstrating and i think he is abit more than a whitebelt penguin

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Old 05-31-2020, 08:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
That's a joke, isn't it? Is it that easy to intrude a machine, simply with a <usrnm>?
Yes. Just having a little fun since SmajjL brought up the security aspect. That said, it very likely is safer to elevate the privileges of an individual, rather than of a group, just like you would do with other admin privileges.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
As for more bonus info (on your free time only)

Since i seem to stick with Manjaro's ways/workflow i found this guy.

This is the world of Linux/Audio/Manjaro how you can do things there and i think he did a good job demonstrating and i think he is abit more than a whitebelt penguin


Thanks! Yes, I know the guy : "Unfa". He is very active in Youtube. If I end up in Manjaro at any time (who knows; nothing can be ruled out), his tutorials will be a reference, for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Yes.

Well, I take note, man...
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
Yes. Just having a little fun since SmajjL brought up the security aspect. That said, it very likely is safer to elevate the privileges of an individual, rather than of a group, just like you would do with other admin privileges.

Yep *MF'er#*
Yep on the security logic also even if you are safe the other way, also, we might have safe>safer>safe'iest>forth knox kinda thing, i'm ok with (safer) no need to overdo it

The practice: "just don't give out your phonenumber still applies on Linux also i would think, so i won't
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:50 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soli Deo Gloria View Post
Thanks! Yes, I know the guy : "Unfa". He is very active in Youtube. If I end up in Manjaro at any time (who knows; nothing can be ruled out), his tutorials will be a reference, for sure.

Great! it is useful Linux info he has on his channel also, i don't think you can beat me in distrohopping, but you can try hehe
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Old 05-31-2020, 09:00 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmajjL View Post
Yep *MF'er#*
Yep on the security logic also even if you are safe the other way, also, we might have safe>safer>safe'iest>forth knox kinda thing, i'm ok with (safer) no need to overdo it

The practice: "just don't give out your phonenumber still applies on Linux also i would think, so i won't
Hehe, I like to lock stuff up until it don't work no more. Then open only the stuff that reely needs to be open. REAPER's web interface doesn't work here coz I just haven't taken the time to determine the ports I need to allow in iptables. Prolly port 80, but I dunno that I wanna open it for somthing I don't use.
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:03 AM   #25
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Right! trying Mx Linux
So without editing anything, the command ulimit -a first said:

max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 64
real-time priority (-r) 0

After manualy creating a new (empty) audio.conf in /etc/security/limits.d/

@SmajjL - rtprio 98
@SmajjL - memlock unlimited

and reboot, and ulimit -a will this time say:

max locked memory (kbytes, -l) unlimited
real-time priority (-r) 98

So, no adding to group and that was the only text, just this worked
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Old 06-01-2020, 12:06 AM   #26
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Hehe, I like to lock stuff up until it don't work no more. Then open only the stuff that reely needs to be open. REAPER's web interface doesn't work here coz I just haven't taken the time to determine the ports I need to allow in iptables. Prolly port 80, but I dunno that I wanna open it for somthing I don't use.

I know you are not kidding either
The IP-table thing i think i need to learn, maby some other smaller things, but that's it!
You're an ex-marine or something?

Hmm, and why unlimited and not the size of the memory one have installed?
Because unlimited equals the max one have automagically? ok.. *wild guess* iiii dunno
*me hides*
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Old 06-01-2020, 06:44 AM   #27
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I know you are not kidding either
The IP-table thing i think i need to learn, maby some other smaller things, but that's it!
There's an easy GUI based front end for iptables called gufw, which has presets for things like games, MythTV, and other common apps that might need firewall exceptions.

Quote:
You're an ex-marine or something?
Nah, I'm an ex-hippie from the 60s, but accidentally accessing some random person's C: drive in the early days of the internet opened my eyes to teh werld of security!

Quote:
Hmm, and why unlimited and not the size of the memory one have installed?
Because unlimited equals the max one have automagically? ok.. *wild guess* iiii dunno
*me hides*
As for memory, if you specified the amount of RAM you have installed, I would expect fairly identical results, but if you added more and forgot to change the value you previously entered, you wouldn't get full use. Also, unlimited might include other stuff like swapping, which could potentially go above the size of your physical RAM. I dunno if that happens behind the scenes, but it might.
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Old 06-01-2020, 08:00 AM   #28
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Posts: 2,778
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GUFW i know and by the surface only, and i have got used to just install it and turn it on, set & forget... lol *me ducks*
Default Profile is Home, so, it is Home and i am Home and only Public and Office is there, never seen gaming or MythTV, what the?..

ahh.. ... i typed iptables in the Terminal, so it is a baked in thing, it is there, GUFW is just a graphical easy'er control thing and iptables would still be in there even if i did not install GUFW? ohh

Ah, ok.. (i've been lucky or, not unlucky ) i thought it was your hobby sort of so that you setup your thing, and then go to your other computer and try to hack yourself, if you can't then only then are you satisfied.

I think Soli is trying Kontakt with large librarys, not sure if anyone want anything chewing on Swap while playing, even if it is SSD tech, iii dunno
I think we have irq-stuff also to try, forgot that tip.

Okej, i am now on Ubuntu Studio 20.10 ("Tales of the Golden Monkey") daily, and eum, straight out of the box, everything works here i must say! and look at that, they Do, put the audio.conf in the /etc/security/limits.d/
From the future, here is what it looks like:

# Provided by the jackd package.
#
# Changes to this file will be preserved.
#
# If you want to enable/disable realtime permissions, run
#
# dpkg-reconfigure -p high jackd

@audio - rtprio 95
@audio - memlock unlimited
#@audio - nice -19


Finaly, now i know how disable realtime if i would need that, but all is perfect so, who-ho!
Edit/cleaned: i'll report myself for smile abuse next time


==

Ofc.. problems getting a working WINE, had to go through PlayOnLinux, then Native Access could not reach internet (that's a new one..)
Back to Manjaro.. enough testing/hopping
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Last edited by SmajjL; 06-01-2020 at 09:25 AM. Reason: I rrrrrrefuse wordprocessors! :p
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