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Old 01-26-2016, 06:01 PM   #1
Augtivism
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Default No sounds when listening to playback on Reaper Mac

So I recently got Reaper and I wanted to try record some guitar tracks. I've got my guitar plugged in, going through a Scarlett 2i4 interface into my macbook air. I had Reaper running, had a track ready and record-armed, I had my BIAS FX running as a VST, but when I tried to play back what I recorded, no audio could be heard from the playback.

My track 1 volume levels are registering sound whenever I play my guitar, and waveforms are appearing whenever I'm recording on the track so it's not an input problem.
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Old 02-05-2016, 12:53 AM   #2
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Since this hasn't got any replies yet, I'll give it a shot.

Are the master level meters moving while you play back the project?

If not, make sure the channel is routed to master in the channel's i/o settings (checkbox at the top left). If still no movement, try to bypass all FX plugins.

If master meters are moving but no sound, you might need to set the output device for Reaper:
- In Reaper Preferences, choose Audio > Device.
- Uncheck "Use separate input/output device" and select Scarlett as the playback device.
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Old 02-06-2016, 02:01 AM   #3
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There are GREAT vids on the download page which will help you with this sort of stuff?,,,,,, Have a look!
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Old 02-29-2016, 01:54 PM   #4
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Man I am having the same issue. I'm new to Reaper and Mac, but have extensive experience in LOTS of other DAWS on Windows. I have never had such a headache trying to get sound of ANY kind coming out of Reaper. I'll be checking back and interjecting my issues when I leave work later. Maybe we can both sort this out.
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Old 03-13-2016, 09:10 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by frostysnake View Post
Man I am having the same issue. I'm new to Reaper and Mac, but have extensive experience in LOTS of other DAWS on Windows. I have never had such a headache trying to get sound of ANY kind coming out of Reaper. I'll be checking back and interjecting my issues when I leave work later. Maybe we can both sort this out.
I'm having the same problem running through my fire face 800. I'm getting live sound in my headphones from the mic and the test recordings are showing up on the meters and waveform...but no sound from the track during playback. I've routed to hardware analogue output 9/10 (headphone jack) on the front of the rme...

Anyone know what I'm missing?

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Old 05-01-2016, 03:16 AM   #6
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Default The same issue

Still no reply to the same issue: no sound coming out when playing back !! We are on May 1st... !!
I used Reaper for 2 or 3 years without any problem like this, and suddenly it happens. Your cases seem to occur around the same year. Could it have something to do with an upgrade of the MacOS ??
I have 10.6.8 on my MacBook.

I may ad that I also have the inverse problem: sometimes, after loading a file, I can HEAR the sound. However I did not do anything for this... More astonishing: in that case, with the same file, if I want to record something, that's impossible, no waveform, no VU-metres acting, no nothing !!!

No solution coming from the Cockos gurus ??

Last edited by Pruch; 05-01-2016 at 03:17 AM. Reason: word missing
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Old 05-01-2016, 11:24 AM   #7
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Probably no replies because no one has mentioned their specific setup info yet. Have you read and understood the setup parameters and procedures, verified correct settings with your specific equipment and then found it truly doesn't work? Or have you just blindly launched the app for the first time and just don't recognize the controls?

Hard to tell without posting system info (computer, interface(s), intended configuration).

Reaper is a complex audio app that isn't just going to come out of the box running in "simple" mode like Garageband or something.

Not trying to be a jerk or anything. People around here love solving a good mystery but you have to narrow down the starting point just a little bit.
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:07 PM   #8
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Serr,
strictly speaking you are RIGHT, it nevertheless remains that I never encountered the troubles I am in. From the beginning of my using Reaper 2 or 3 years ago, when I wanted to record I did it, when I wanted to listen to the playback I did it... without tweaking anything.
I used Digital Performer for years,with no problems. I tried Garage Band: very easy, no problems !!
As I already specified I also have the inverse problem: if Reaper (by chance!) gets in playback config. (this happens at the opening, not knowing why...!) I cannot record something on the same file I am working on, regardless of what I do...

I shall comply with this elementary rule:
- MacBook 2,4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo. Memory: 2 Go 667 Mhz DDR2 SDRAM
- Sound Card: QUAD-CAPTURE (ROLAND)
- Reaper 4,591 / 64 (I tried the latest version on an iMac with Yosemite: the problem remains as such...)

I hope that this will be sufficient because I don't see what to add...
I apologize if my english is not perfect, I apologize too if I am not very clear in trying to describe my problems.

Thank you for your help anyway!
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:23 PM   #9
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Did you notice this thread is over a year old and NONE of the other posters bothered following up with answers?

Probably means they were able to figure it out 10 minutes after posting here...
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Old 05-01-2016, 02:29 PM   #10
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I noticed that this thread started on Jan 26 th, 2016, if in May 1st,that makes ONE year for you, you certainly figure out everything that God makes :-) !! anyway I intended to ask them if they found the solution after all this time !!

As for me I don't have too much time and I am afraid I am not so clever as they seem to be according to you.
A forum is supposed to be a help for its members, isn't it ?? So if any of them have found the solution it would be elegant to post it on the forum, no ??

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Old 05-02-2016, 09:55 AM   #11
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How far have you gotten with connecting your audio interface? Either your built-in audio interface (part of the computer logic board) or your external unit (if you have one). Or both (in an aggregate device if that's what you are trying to do).

You've selected the interface you want to use in the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page?

Decided on where to control sample rate selection and block size (Reaper or some other app) and checked or unchecked those boxes appropriately?

Set the sample rate and block size?

Assigned an output from your connected audio interface to the Reaper master?


Where in the above steps is something going wrong for you?
(That's what I meant by providing more info. )
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggage View Post
I'm having the same problem running through my fire face 800. I'm getting live sound in my headphones from the mic and the test recordings are showing up on the meters and waveform...but no sound from the track during playback. I've routed to hardware analogue output 9/10 (headphone jack) on the front of the rme...

Anyone know what I'm missing?
Did you set up everything in TotalMix?

This is not a program you can just mouse around in and get it. You need to RTFM, or at least watch all of the excellent video's from Synthax (UK and US RME distributor).

Check System preferences/Sound first to see if the FF800 is selected as an input and output device. Also, check Audio/midi setup (in Applications/Utilities).

If all these are correct, check Reaper's preferences/Audio/Device and /Audio. Reaper has a lot of settings other DAW's don't have. Some of these can block audio if the interface in question doesn't support that function.

That's also why a question like these doesn't get a reply if you don't provide the details needed to sort it out. And these details include:

- OS and version
- Reaper version
- Interface used and driver version
- Any plugins on master bus?
- Any other routing software used (TotalMix, Jack...)?

And a screenshot of the audio settings in Reaper's prefs might help too. Usually, this is a case of one checkbox that's wrong. The problem is figuring out which checkbox...
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Old 05-02-2016, 01:32 PM   #13
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I noticed that this thread started on Jan 26 th, 2016, if in May 1st,that makes ONE year for you, you certainly figure out everything that God makes :-) !! anyway I intended to ask them if they found the solution after all this time !!
True. Sorry.

Quote:
As for me I don't have too much time and I am afraid I am not so clever as they seem to be according to you.
A forum is supposed to be a help for its members, isn't it ?? So if any of them have found the solution it would be elegant to post it on the forum, no ??
That would be true if the unknown problem from 3 months ago was the same as yours.

I'm afraid Reaper isn't a simple program. With lots of possibilities to work with, there are lots of ways things can go wrong.

And since you have little time, it would be wise to answer our questions. That might lead to an answer.
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Old 05-03-2016, 03:52 AM   #14
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How far have you gotten with connecting your audio interface? Either your built-in audio interface (part of the computer logic board) or your external unit (if you have one). Or both (in an aggregate device if that's what you are trying to do).
Both audio interfaces (built and QUAD-CAPTURE (ROLAND) as well, have always been connected without any problems.
I am not trying to do an aggregate device.

You've selected the interface you want to use in the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page?

Yes.

Decided on where to control sample rate selection and block size (Reaper or some other app) and checked or unchecked those boxes appropriately?

Yes, I control them in Reaper prefs.

Set the sample rate and block size?

Yes: 44100 Hz / 4 ca 24 bits

Assigned an output from your connected audio interface to the Reaper master?

Yes: Output 1, but the audio interface is not indicated here so I am not sure.
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:28 AM   #15
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Both audio interfaces (built and QUAD-CAPTURE (ROLAND) as well, have always been connected without any problems.
I am not trying to do an aggregate device.
Just to be clear. That means that you switch between using the built-in interface and the Rolland and further, never use them together at the same time?

Tell me real quick your procedure for switching Reaper between one or the other interface.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:23 AM   #16
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I Never use them both together. Generally I use the built-in microphone when the external soundcard is not necessary.
The switching is very easy: through the system preferences.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:25 AM   #17
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Does that mean you leave Reaper set to 'default system devices' and then run everything with Audio MIDI Setup (the OSX utility)?

Also, are you saying that you get no audio out of either interface?

I'm trying to get at your exact audio interface setup. The specific settings in Reaper and/or Audio MIDI Setup (or any other audio control panel app that might apply). If you tell me the exact settings you are making or maybe post screen shots of the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page and the OSX Audio MIDI Setup screen, I might see something.
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Old 05-03-2016, 02:28 PM   #18
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If I understand what you are saying: Yes ! But not through the Audio Midi Setup. It seems like Reaper is setting the whole thing for you, it is for you to choose the interface !! Which (IMHO), seems to be the least for a so sophisticated DAW, isn't it ? Anyway it workED ! but it does not anymore !! And Why ??? !!!

No, while I am working with built-in microphone, or with external interface, I cannot hear them together at the same time. (and frankly this has never occurred to my mind !! but maybe I'll give it a try soon, if it is of interest...)

To-morrow I'll try to send you some screen shots.

For now: thank you for trying to help me so nicely,
Have a good night !!
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Old 05-03-2016, 04:20 PM   #19
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You're welcome. My guess is you had Reaper set to 'default system devices'. This means you are now making device settings on any connected audio interface (built-in or external) with Audio MIDI Setup (the OSX utility) or a proprietary control app that would come with the device if it had one.

If you didn't realize that...
There's probably a setting you just haven't made in Audio MIDI Setup.

Why did it work before and not now?
If you switch around devices (eg use the built-in one day, plug an external in the next, etc), OSX gives you some autopilot convenience. Like switching back to the built-in output if you remove an external unit. This has limits and/or makes the wrong choice for you depending on what's going on sometimes.

Take a look at the manual again for the specifics. You have a choice of controlling your connected audio interfaces with Reaper or another audio app (like AMS).

If you control your interfaces with AMS instead of Reaper, understand that you have to pay attention to any other apps that might switch the sample rate (for one example) of the system. That would cut the audio in your Reaper project if it was set for something else.

Getting familiar with the Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page is a good thing to do.

I hope that helps!

Last edited by serr; 05-03-2016 at 07:51 PM.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:35 AM   #20
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That is an idea for sure, but I checked, and no: Reaper is set to the built-in microphone.


Right now, I tried again to record sthing, but there is no waveform, however I can load a file on the track and then we have the waveform of the file, with the sound etc...
All this is very confusing, I am going to follow your advice and dive myself into the manual again, although I am sure of the result... !

I tried to do a screenshot but the format they accept is too small for a good picture...or I don't have the right tools !!
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Old 05-04-2016, 07:16 AM   #21
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That is an idea for sure, but I checked, and no: Reaper is set to the built-in microphone.
Well, there's your problem then!

The built-in microphone is a 2 input device. It has no outputs.

You need to make an aggregate device of your built-in mic + the output device you wish to use. Could be the built-in output or your external unit or even both.

I suspect the part that wasn't clear is that the built-in output and built-in input are actually 2 separate devices. If you want to use multiple devices together, you make an aggregate device with Audio MIDI Setup and then select the aggregate device in Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page.


PS. I think the way to deal with posting too large files to the forum is to use one of your free cloud accounts and then post a shared link.
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Old 05-04-2016, 08:51 AM   #22
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Well, there's your problem then!

The built-in microphone is a 2 input device. It has no outputs.
Right ! I forgot to check that very small window where the monitoring is set !! This is due to the fact that I have been away too long from Reaper I guess.

However, now, thanks to you, I have my waveform, OK, but this waveform is flat: no sound is getting in... The VU meters do not move. Whereas in OS prefs it is absolutely clear that the mic gets the external sound.
So what ?? What is wrong or forgotten ?

I search and search ...
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Old 05-04-2016, 09:11 AM   #23
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Try this:

Setup to use the built-in mic and the built-in output and to control the devices with Reaper. Rule of thumb is to try controlling your interfaces from Reaper first. Only go to using other apps (like AMS) if there's a problem or something doesn't play nice.

Open Audio MIDI Setup.
Create a new aggregate device and add both the built-in mic and the built-in output. (Whichever one you click on first will appear first in the aggregate device.) You can rename it from 'aggregate device' to 'Mic+Output' or some such if you wish.

Open Reaper Preferences/Audio/Device page.
Select the aggregate device you created from the Device menu.
Check the box next to sample rate and then enter the sample rate you wish to run your system at (eg. 44.1k). Check the box next to block size and enter 512 or 1024 samples. Click apply when finished. That checkbox is the switch for assigning control to Reaper vs. some other audio app. (NOTE: I'm assuming you are not after running live sound here for now, so I'm suggesting the 'Set it large and forget it' block size to leave CPU power for mixing processing instead of low latency operation.)

Now click the I/O button on the master track. You should see the 2 channel output available in the hardware output dropdown. You'll see the 2 channel mic input available to assign to track inputs when you go to assign inputs.



I wonder how often this comes up for new users?
Anyone else think the Preferences/Audio/Device page should be forced to open the first time you launch Reaper to force the learning curve?
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:19 AM   #24
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I wonder how often this comes up for new users?
Anyone else think the Preferences/Audio/Device page should be forced to open the first time you launch Reaper to force the learning curve?
When you have a saved project and open it up without the right hardware attached, it already does that.

It's only when you haven't saved a project, that no warning is produced and whatever audio configuration available is used. If you're testing with a new project, I see no way for Reaper to know what config should be used.

I see that quite often, because the interface stays where it is, but I walk around with the Macbook sometimes.

Maybe it's not so simple to check if there is no history (saved project)?

And if the device prefs would open with every new project, that would be kind of a hassle for experienced users, I think.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:29 AM   #25
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When you have a saved project and open it up without the right hardware attached, it already does that.

It's only when you haven't saved a project, that no warning is produced and whatever audio configuration available is used. If you're testing with a new project, I see no way for Reaper to know what config should be used.

I see that quite often, because the interface stays where it is, but I walk around with the Macbook sometimes.

Maybe it's not so simple to check if there is no history (saved project)?

And if the device prefs would open with every new project, that would be kind of a hassle for experienced users, I think.
I understand the cons of course.
I was thinking more of the first time you ever launch Reaper. Similar to how the resource folder is first written on the first launch. Make the audio/device page open the first time.

Something that alerts the new user to the fact that this isn't just a simple DAW that connects to OS system audio only.

Just thinking out loud.

At any rate, I think hiding the device selection and control in a preferences page in the first place is analogous to a surround receiver with the input selector hidden on the back of the unit or something. For those of us who switch around devices regularly, it's an all the time thing. (And yes, I'm aware of the double-click the device status on the top of the screen shortcut along with "⌘,")

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Old 05-04-2016, 01:55 PM   #26
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I often wonder how people succeed in having trouble with it.

I've played around with dozens of interfaces and apart from selecting the right one in the prefs, I hardly ever change the defaults. It just seems to work for me. And that's including plugging and unplugging without closing the DAW.

I'll admit I don't care about latency, because I never have to provide monitoring when recording. And I don't compose music, so YMMV for some.

So maybe it's because users change things in there without RTFM?

I don't see this as a way to educate the user, frankly. It took me a while too before it dawned on me that with DAW's you really need to take time to set up a project. It's not like a text processor, where you start the program, let it make a new blank sheet and you just start writing, is it?

But our attentions span is getting shorter by the minute, thanks to the enormous information overload, called internet...
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:24 PM   #27
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And yes, I'm aware of the double-click the device status on the top of the screen shortcut along with "⌘,"
Well, I'm not :-)

What's that "device status on the top of the screen"?
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:51 PM   #28
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Well, I'm not :-)

What's that "device status on the top of the screen"?
Where the sample rate and Reaper added latency are displayed on top of the screen. Double-click that to open the Preferences/Audio/Device page.

And ⌘, is the default shortcut to open the preferences page for most OSX apps.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:55 PM   #29
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Try this:

Setup to use the built-in mic and the built-in output and to control the devices with Reaper. Rule of thumb is to try controlling your interfaces from Reaper first. Only go to using other apps (like AMS) if there's a problem or something doesn't play nice.


I wonder how often this comes up for new users?
Anyone else think the Preferences/Audio/Device page should be forced to open the first time you launch Reaper to force the learning curve?
Of course I followed your suggestion, all the more since this idea was running through my mind these last days. You know what ? : IT WORKED, no wonder.
But (there is always a "but", to my great dismay): there is an awful hiss on the recording track. As if there was a price to pay... I have to lower the sound level very much, but it is still heard. Too bad...

At this point, the least I can do is to thank you very very much, for your competence, and, most of all: your patience !!

I must say that the idea to force the "learning curve" from the very first opening is a good idea. It could also be encouraging to do practical TUTORIALs, don't you think ? Instead of you wasting (or something approaching) your time with many learners like me ...

Let me you tell you this however:

- at this point, if the aggregate "device" transmits sound in either route (in and out), the result is not at all close to "clean", and I don't see how to remediate to this noise in the background (just as if there was a malicious loop out of control).

- I still do not understand how I have been able to use REAPER since Feb 2014, without any problem like this one, without having to change anything in the prefs (except the Sound in System and the setting of the monitoring, as far as I remember...), without having no more problems than with (don't laugh at me please... !) Garage Band, yes !!
Reaper is a seducing product, that is why I am trying to learn to use it. And the intellectual challenge is part of its seduction.
One idea occurs to my mind: could it be that the problem be due to newest version ? I will try to re-use older versions. If it is so, I'll tell you !

In the meanwhile, if you see how to get rid of the hiss, that would be great !! I tried to assign Built-in Mic to input and Built-in Output to Output, instead of Agregate Device, things have improved but it is not really satisfying ... is there anything more to do ?

Once again, thank you so much Serr, these days you learned a lot of things to me, you led me to places of Reaper that I never had the curiosity to go, (because there was no need at this time !)

THANK YOU !!!

Last edited by Pruch; 05-04-2016 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 05-04-2016, 11:19 PM   #30
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Where the sample rate and Reaper added latency are displayed on top of the screen. Double-click that to open the Preferences/Audio/Device page.
Damned. Thought I was going blind.

You mean in the menu pane. I was going through every one of Reaper's windows. Even changed theme, supposing the theme was hiding it.

Man, I can be dense. :-)))

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But (there is always a "but", to my great dismay): there is an awful hiss on the recording track. As if there was a price to pay... I have to lower the sound level very much, but it is still heard. Too bad...
Strange. Even built-in audio should be relatively quiet.

Quote:
I must say that the idea to force the "learning curve" from the very first opening is a good idea. It could also be encouraging to do practical TUTORIALs, don't you think ? Instead of you wasting (or something approaching) your time with many learners like me ...
There's so much to learn. You can't force a user in general. If you disallow switching it off, it doesn't please those who have already mastered the software. And if you allow switching off, the first thing they'll do, is disable it.

Quote:
Let me you tell you this however:

- at this point, if the aggregate "device" transmits sound in either route (in and out), the result is not at all close to "clean", and I don't see how to remediate to this noise in the background (just as if there was a malicious loop out of control).
I could understand a little hiss on input. But not on the output. That should be very clean.

Quote:
- I still do not understand how I have been able to use REAPER since Feb 2014, without any problem like this one, without having to change anything in the prefs (except the Sound in System and the setting of the monitoring, as far as I remember...), without having no more problems than with (don't laugh at me please... !) Garage Band, yes !!
Reaper is a seducing product, that is why I am trying to learn to use it. And the intellectual challenge is part of its seduction.
One idea occurs to my mind: could it be that the problem be due to newest version ? I will try to re-use older versions. If it is so, I'll tell you !
The newer version has a lot of new things. And that thought has risen in my mind too. But I haven't been able to prove it. And atm, I tend to believe it not to be the case.

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In the meanwhile, if you see how to get rid of the hiss, that would be great !! I tried to assign Built-in Mic to input and Built-in Output to Output, instead of Agregate Device, things have improved but it is not really satisfying ... is there anything more to do ?
The first thing that I could think of, is dithering. But afaik, there are no settings for it.
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:26 AM   #31
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Thanks Cyrano for your replies.
I tried a lot of configurations this night and I can tell you that the hiss was simply a Larsen effect, occurring in all the cases, with or without the aggregate device. The solution goes by itself: to monitor your recording just use earphones !
I seem to be approaching some satisfying end.
Have a good day.
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Old 05-05-2016, 09:28 AM   #32
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Glad to hear you're finally up and running Pruch.

Now that you know where the "input selector" and "speaker selector" switches are as it were, you can play around with different configurations and find the most convenient setups for your stuff.

As for the hiss...
All I can tell you is to try devices one at a time and in different combinations to troubleshoot. It sounds like you are already doing that.
Of course the built-in mic, inputs, and outputs are not exactly the highest quality. You should expect some noise.

If you tried to use the built-in mic and monitor it with the built-in output (laptop speakers) at the same time, there would be feedback issues, for another example.

Finally, some devices don't play nice together in an aggregate. The built-in input and output will be solid together of course. Problems with multiple devices together are usually stuff like increased latency (which is only a problem for live sound work) or sync issues at HD sample rates (on devices that don't have dedicated word clock I/O). And all that usually only with mixing different 3rd party interfaces.

Aside:
I've used the built-in input in a Macbook Pro to record before. The quality of the line level input preamp is... bad. The OS utility gives you an input level control for this input. The quality of the input preamp makes this control useless unfortunately. I found that if I set the OS utility input level control to 45% and then adjusted the output from the source for a good level, I got the best recording. (Best preservation of dynamic range and lowest distortion.) Basically the "window" the input preamp gives you for signal dynamic range is too small to give you any headroom to be able to use that input level control. Set it lower than 45% with a hotter signal coming in and it distorts badly at the analog input. Too low a signal and turning it up gives you this distorted copy of a washed out signal (not sure how else to describe that). Laptop audio is pretty much made for voice dictation only is the thing (or listening to distorted mp3s ).

Last edited by serr; 05-05-2016 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 05-05-2016, 10:00 AM   #33
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Anyone else think the Preferences/Audio/Device page should be forced to open the first time you launch Reaper to force the learning curve?
No,it should force open the user manuals first,...with a way to make it so you can't just scroll through the manual and exit without actually reading it.

Make you read it and answer a few quiz questions per section/chapter,to make sure you understand a few things before moving on.

= )
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:13 PM   #34
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If you tried to use the built-in mic and monitor it with the built-in output (laptop speakers) at the same time, there would be feedback issues, for another example.
Yes !! Thats's what I wrote in my reply to Cyrano !
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:23 PM   #35
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No,it should force open the user manuals first,...with a way to make it so you can't just scroll through the manual and exit without actually reading it.

Make you read it and answer a few quiz questions per section/chapter,to make sure you understand a few things before moving on.

= )
Yeaah ! Just like a Driving License Course !!
All this coupled with tutorials, and it would be really worthwhile, after some weeks you could start recording anything with Reaper !!
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Old 05-05-2016, 02:56 PM   #36
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Aside:
I've used the built-in input in a Macbook Pro to record before. The quality of the line level input preamp is... bad. The OS utility gives you an input level control for this input. The quality of the input preamp makes this control useless unfortunately. I found that if I set the OS utility input level control to 45% and then adjusted the output from the source for a good level, I got the best recording. (Best preservation of dynamic range and lowest distortion.) Basically the "window" the input preamp gives you for signal dynamic range is too small to give you any headroom to be able to use that input level control. Set it lower than 45% with a hotter signal coming in and it distorts badly at the analog input. Too low a signal and turning it up gives you this distorted copy of a washed out signal (not sure how else to describe that). Laptop audio is pretty much made for voice dictation only is the thing (or listening to distorted mp3s ).
1/ was it with REAPER ? I am not really aware enough of what pertains to hardware or software... In this case quality of the line level input.
2/ in fact, when you record through ITunes for instance, you use your built-in input, don't you ?
3/ I never used the line input, only the built-in mic or, best, a mic connected to an external sound-card, and I must say that the result is not so bad, after some settings up, like with any sound card !! I keep in mind your 45% however. But you are right, it is impossible to get a very silent result. It would be too great !!
4/ that makes me think of a very controversial issue running through every forum: do you agree with the saying that audio engines have ALWAYS the same quality, whatever the DAW ??? This is a very important matter !!
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Old 05-06-2016, 07:04 AM   #37
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1/ was it with REAPER ? I am not really aware enough of what pertains to hardware or software... In this case quality of the line level input.
2/ in fact, when you record through ITunes for instance, you use your built-in input, don't you ?
Can your record in iTunes? Now I'm baffled...

The quality of the line input is quite decent on most Macs. One of mine has a noise in it, that comes from the backlight LED's. You can't hear it, unless you move the mouse, or use the trackpad. But an identical MB Pro doesn't show the same problem.

And there is an optical output on all Macs that is perfect. 15" MB Pro's also have an optical input. A second advantage of these optical I/O's is that they provide perfect galvanic isolation, which excludes groundloop noises. I'm amazed not more people use this.

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3/ I never used the line input, only the built-in mic or, best, a mic connected to an external sound-card, and I must say that the result is not so bad, after some settings up, like with any sound card !! I keep in mind your 45% however. But you are right, it is impossible to get a very silent result. It would be too great !!
It is usable. But, in light of the environment it is in (a flat panel, with various noise producing sources next to it (screen, backlight, camera... or next to the power supply, with a noisy CPU and GPU in the same corner) it will never be as good as a dedicated external mic with a decent audio interface.

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4/ that makes me think of a very controversial issue running through every forum: do you agree with the saying that audio engines have ALWAYS the same quality, whatever the DAW ??? This is a very important matter !!
Yes.

Any DAW sounds the same. If you compare the sound of a low end DAW, Audacity fi, that is 32 bit internally, to a higher end DAW, Reaper fi, that is 64 bit internally, you'll find no difference.

That said, once you throw in plugins and all the funky stuff they do right and wrong, YMMV.

Audacity, fi, doesn't support VSTi's or VST3. They've kept it simple by not supporting those, they will not generate problems. Some other DAW's can have problems with some plugins and that might produce audible distortion or artefacts. But that's not a deficiency of the DAW.

And the adagio still is: for simple playback, 16 bits, 44.1 kHz is sufficient. 48 kHz if it is for DVD output or for video. Personally, I use 48 kHz but that is because I'm too lazy to switch.

When you "work" with the audio, you're better off with 24 bits and maybe even 96 kHz, for some plugins that do not oversample internally. But, again, that depends on the task at hand and the plugin used.

But some DAW's do some processing to sound different. Harrison Mixbus, fi, does "something" with the audio. It sounds a bit like the big Harrison consoles used in movie studios. That's OK too.
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Old 05-06-2016, 09:12 AM   #38
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1/ was it with REAPER ? I am not really aware enough of what pertains to hardware or software... In this case quality of the line level input.
2/ in fact, when you record through ITunes for instance, you use your built-in input, don't you ?
3/ I never used the line input, only the built-in mic or, best, a mic connected to an external sound-card, and I must say that the result is not so bad, after some settings up, like with any sound card !! I keep in mind your 45% however. But you are right, it is impossible to get a very silent result. It would be too great !!
4/ that makes me think of a very controversial issue running through every forum: do you agree with the saying that audio engines have ALWAYS the same quality, whatever the DAW ??? This is a very important matter !!
1. Using Reaper and probably Digital Performer at one point. I'm talking 100% about the hardware interface here and 0% about anything with a DAW.

2. I've never recorded with iTunes. I honestly didn't know it could! I don't even use it for a media player. Apple is stubbornly locking out native FLAC playback and it also fails badly with surround sound. I've been liking Songbird for a media player.

3. Yeah, the line input is "not bad" if you notice the severe lack of headroom and are careful about it. I've recorded a few 'board tapes' from the headphone out of a mixing desk on the laptop. Turned out better than they should have.

4. That started back when Protools was king with a 48 bit mix engine while everyone else had a 32 bit mix engine. Reaper and just about every other pro DAW is now 64 bit fp. Sound quality (or lack thereof) is initially determined at the analog stage and AD converter. Then its all about the mix you create. All a DAW is doing when recording is taking the ones and zeros coming from the AD converter and shuttling them to your hard drive. For mixing after that, the mix engine is important for headroom of course. 64 bit fp gives you miles of headroom. That track with the fader way way down still has the full resolution digital signal of the source with no rounding.

Last edited by serr; 05-06-2016 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:41 PM   #39
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Cyrano: Can you record in iTunes? Now I'm baffled...

Serr: I've never recorded with iTunes. I honestly didn't know it could!

Oooopsss ! Sorry ! I was rather speaking of streaming sites like Spotify!
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Old 05-06-2016, 03:58 PM   #40
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1. All a DAW is doing when recording is taking the ones and zeros coming from the AD converter and shuttling them to your hard drive. For mixing after that, the mix engine is important for headroom of course. 64 bit fp gives you miles of headroom. That track with the fader way way down still has the full resolution digital signal of the source with no rounding.
In other words: if you record, say, just a voice, or a piano, flat, with no plug-ins, there would be no perceptible difference between DAWs, at least by ear ??
The idea is: if it is so, is it possible to transfer such a record to a more powerful DAW, with sophisticated plug-ins etc... etc... so to have a much better mix, whatever the initial DAW is ?? You see what I mean ?
I have read this afternoon that 64 bits is mostly suited for huge musical formations, and that 32 bits is generally quite enough (explaining why Protools was so much looked after when it first came to market, because it was the one over 32 bits !! until it was estimated that 32 bits were absolutely sufficient with very good results)
I don't know if this is all true !!

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