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10-27-2020, 09:06 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 266
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How to double lead vocal?
Hi all,
Just wondering is there a Reaper plugin to double lead vocals?
Or do I just duplicate the original lead vocal track?
If duplicating the original lead vocal do I have to add any specific effects, such as delay?
Thanks!
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10-27-2020, 09:16 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 966
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10-27-2020, 09:21 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Surrey, UK
Posts: 19,681
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Have a look at this article: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...racking-vocals
If you are likely to do it often you could try Medlaproduction's MDoubleTracker:
https://www.meldaproduction.com/MDoubleTracker
Quote:
MDoubleTracker tries to simulate the good old trick of recording the same performance multiple times, panning one to the left and the other to the right. That produces the classic big sound commonly used on guitars and vocals for example. While recording the same performance multiple times is very tedious, complex and error-prone process, producing such a thing automatically provides an extremely efficient alternative.
To do that, MDoubleTracker uses a system of variating delaylines to pitch-shift each channel just a little bit, up on one side, down on the other. Additionally it can delay each channel differently and the difference between channels is slowly evolving. As a result, different signals are produced for both left and right (and potentially surround) channels, creating a sensation of the performance being just a little bit different on each side, enough to produce the big wide stereo sound. When Dry/wet may be used to create sort of a phasing / chorusey effect, useful creatively.
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__________________
DarkStar ... interesting, if true. . . . Inspired by ...
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10-27-2020, 09:37 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,787
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Quote:
Or do I just duplicate the original lead vocal track?
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No, that will just double the volume.
A simple-constant delay (mixed with the original) will create comb-filtering ("phasing"). With a variable delay you get a flanging effect (a "moving" comb filter).
Automatic double tracking is more complex but it's an "effect" that sounds different than true double tracking.
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10-27-2020, 09:37 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 3,204
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I recommend using the record button for this.
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10-27-2020, 09:45 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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You could also try the included JS: Ozzyfier
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10-27-2020, 10:05 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judders
You could also try the included JS: Ozzyfier
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That's what I use.
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10-27-2020, 11:02 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 266
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Thanks so much for these ideas, I will check out these options
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10-27-2020, 11:05 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 266
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sorry, forgot to ask if using one of the plugins suggested such as MDoubleTracker, do I put the plugin directly on the original lead vocal?
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10-27-2020, 01:09 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 421
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I usually do multiple vocal takes then comp the best one. Then I duplicate the track, take the next best ones, comp them and there's my double!
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10-27-2020, 01:12 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,220
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In a pinch for choruses you can use the next chorus's vocals as a double and vice versa, might have to align some words here and there and tame syllables like consonants that stick out on one side vs the other. That is of course if the 2nd chorus is not already a copy paste of the first one..
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10-27-2020, 01:35 PM
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#13
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,201
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What is the best way to double track a vocal will depend on exactly what sound you are aiming to achieve. There are so many options (as you can see in this thread already).
You could also use channel splitting to do this, but a simple trick is to duplicate the track and just run the second a few ms behind the first. You don't need a plug-in for this - you can just nudge it a fraction. Pan them both differently.
You could also try some different FX on each track (but don't overdo it) - eg adjustments to EQ or some gentle compression.
It all depends ...
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10-27-2020, 03:12 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 9,090
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twangothan
I usually do multiple vocal takes then comp the best one. Then I duplicate the track, take the next best ones, comp them and there's my double!
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This is an awesome trick.
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The Sounds of the Hear and Now.
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10-27-2020, 04:15 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 266
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thanks for all these suggestions!
I'm trying out Izotope Doubler, have installed it, but having trouble getting Reaper to see the plugin?
Has anyone had any issues getting Izotope Doubler to work in Reaper?
Is there a specific location the Izotope Doubler plugin should install?
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10-27-2020, 04:54 PM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Bowral, Australia
Posts: 1,643
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You can use a short delay, say around 30 ms. If you put the delay FX on a separate track, you can also EQ it differently to the first vocal for a bit more differentiation.
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10-27-2020, 05:17 PM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Waster
You can use a short delay, say around 30 ms. If you put the delay FX on a separate track, you can also EQ it differently to the first vocal for a bit more differentiation.
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If you wanted the full Automatic Double Tracking treatment, you could also change pitch by +/- 6 cents or so with an automation item LFO on the pitch envelope.
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10-27-2020, 05:58 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,053
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Duplicate the track with the vocal, put them both in a folder (and mute master sends), pan one left, one right, then shift+drag one of the vocal items about 5-10 ms before or behind the other one. Instant Haas effect.
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10-27-2020, 07:09 PM
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#19
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Scribe
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Van Diemen's Land
Posts: 12,201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolgwrad
Duplicate the track with the vocal, put them both in a folder (and mute master sends), pan one left, one right, then shift+drag one of the vocal items about 5-10 ms before or behind the other one. Instant Haas effect.
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Yes, this is usually my preferred method, only thing I'd do different is for precision use the Nudge window (Edit, Nudge/Set items) for this rather than Shift+Drag ...
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10-27-2020, 08:33 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twangothan
I usually do multiple vocal takes then comp the best one. Then I duplicate the track, take the next best ones, comp them and there's my double!
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I do something similar except I actually comp the doubles and triples the same way I found the lead.
The difference being, the 2nd best vocal take isn't always the best double against the chosen lead.
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10-27-2020, 09:17 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,162
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You could always use the ozzifier.. or ADT.. or any free plug.
But nothing beats using one of your outtakes as a double..
Or even better if the vocalist is still on hand.
Make him sing over the first take.
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10-28-2020, 01:16 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Sing it again using the same phrasing and breathing as close as you can. Like the pros do. Anything else is just static delay.
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10-28-2020, 01:20 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMTee
Hi all,
Just wondering is there a Reaper plugin to double lead vocals?
Or do I just duplicate the original lead vocal track?
If duplicating the original lead vocal do I have to add any specific effects, such as delay?
Thanks!
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I use this: https://kilohearts.com/products/haas & I LOVE it!!!
__________________
2021 m1 Mac Mini 16gb ram 2tb storage, 2019 AMD 2700x 4ghz, 32 GB RAM Logic 10.6 Reaper, Studio One 5.2, UAD Spark, numerous sample libraries- All Lives Matter!
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10-28-2020, 01:48 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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A thought: If you listen to the more obviously double tracked vocals on nost hit records, it is pretty easy to tewll which ones were ADT1d and which ones were double takes by the same singer.
Personally, I really don`t like the ADT sound, regardless of what plug you are using.
Must admit I have never triedsOzzifyer, so I will have to give it a go next time I am singing something.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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10-28-2020, 04:02 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas
Yes, this is usually my preferred method, only thing I'd do different is for precision use the Nudge window (Edit, Nudge/Set items) for this rather than Shift+Drag ...
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Yes, nudge would be better.
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10-28-2020, 09:30 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steviebone
Sing it again using the same phrasing and breathing as close as you can. Like the pros do. Anything else is just static delay.
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A different performance is always better IMO.
The only reason I prefer to comp from the outakes is to avoid wearing out the singer.
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10-28-2020, 01:22 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Posts: 421
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
I do something similar except I actually comp the doubles and triples the same way I found the lead.
The difference being, the 2nd best vocal take isn't always the best double against the chosen lead.
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True, if it doesn't work I re-sing it. I'm not sure how to sing a double other than try to stay close to the lead, but most of the time the take 2 version is fine for me.
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10-28-2020, 03:02 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 8,704
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10-28-2020, 04:03 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 266
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wow, so much info on doubling!
thanks for all the input everyone.
So if I'm trying the plugin option, do I put the doubling plugin on the original lead vocal track?
if so, do I add it before other fx on the track, ie, I already have the following on the track - Waves Tune Real Time, ReaComp, ReaEQ, ReaDelay, ReaVerbate
would doubling plugin go at the end?
Thanks!!
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10-28-2020, 04:08 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Montreal
Posts: 435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twangothan
I usually do multiple vocal takes then comp the best one. Then I duplicate the track, take the next best ones, comp them and there's my double!
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That’s the right way!
Unless you are looking for an unnatural doubling for effect, then use doubling plugins.
__________________
PSD Music
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10-28-2020, 04:10 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 11,052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMTee
wow, so much info on doubling!
thanks for all the input everyone.
So if I'm trying the plugin option, do I put the doubling plugin on the original lead vocal track?
if so, do I add it before other fx on the track, ie, I already have the following on the track - Waves Tune Real Time, ReaComp, ReaEQ, ReaDelay, ReaVerbate
would doubling plugin go at the end?
Thanks!!
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Tuning definitely before.
Delay and reverb almost always after.
Compression and EQ usually before, possibly after as well...
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10-28-2020, 07:25 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twangothan
True, if it doesn't work I re-sing it. I'm not sure how to sing a double other than try to stay close to the lead, but most of the time the take 2 version is fine for me.
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It just depends on what you're looking for. I tend to look for doubles that are very much in time with the lead but slightly flat or sharp to make it sound thicker.
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10-28-2020, 09:06 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia
A different performance is always better IMO.
The only reason I prefer to comp from the outakes is to avoid wearing out the singer.
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Outtakes can work well depending on how disciplined the singer was, ... as long as the singer was singing it with more or less the same phrasing each time, something seasoned singers do frequently and others maybe not so much.
I prefer to find a take I like and then sing to it. But then I'm my own artist and engineer so that works for me. In a more standard setting where the singer is most likely already out the door when it's time to mix there is likely a different set of parameters that must be navigated. In that case, your first line of defense is the outtakes, for sure.
FWIWI never liked the sound of simply adding delay to a second track as this makes everything less fluid is really just adding reverb to fatten the track whereas singing the same phrase again means that the amount of delay and/or push pull between the two takes is in constant flux which to me makes a big difference in how it sounds
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10-29-2020, 06:06 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: On my arse in Glasgow, Scotland
Posts: 2,053
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Then there's this method: slow down the playback rate on the big slider to about 0.95, record the track again. Restore the playback rate to 1.0, and in the (r/click) new item properties increase the playback rate to 1.0256 (reciprocal of the new rate).
Last edited by bolgwrad; 10-29-2020 at 06:07 AM.
Reason: clarity
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