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Old 04-01-2018, 10:37 PM   #1
serr
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Default Recent OSX troubles and solutions. Poor performance with a heavyweight machine? Read!

Got a monster i7 Mac with a SSD that should be running live sound with ease or mixing 300 track, 400 plugin 5.1 surround mixes with 2 cores tied behinds its back but it's crapping out on a 12 channel mix with 3 plugins? (I've seen some recent threads that read like that.)

Check your SSD speeds!

Run a quick drive speed test with a free app like Xbench, the diagnostic app of your choice, or a terminal command.
(Note that older machines with SATA2 - 3 Gigabit - will max out at around 250MB/sec regardless of the max drive speed of the SSD.) You're looking to spot a SSD that's crawling along at only around 20MB/sec.

There are two situations that can arise.
1. A SSD may require TRIM support from the OS that may have gotten disabled.
2. There are firmware updates required for the new APFS disk format that may have been missed.

Either of these can lead to a SSD having read/write speeds severely crippled and/or corruption leading to a crashed OS installation.

TRIM:
Some SSD's require TRIM. Some just started requiring it with the introduction of OSX 10.12 that had not prior.

If your SSD requires TRIM and you have it disabled, the SSD can slow down to 20MB/s or less. This is slightly faster than spinning HDD speeds or USB2 connected drive speeds. That means you might not notice anything wrong just browsing the internet or other general productivity stuff! Start working on audio though and you hit a wall as though you had an old machine with an old hard drive.

Apple has the trim setting disabled for 3rd party drives by default. They are being extra careful with any drive brand they haven't tested themselves. As far as I can determine, the only non compatible issue with trim for some SSD's is with a couple odd Linux installs. No issues reported with any 3rd party drive with OSX (or even Windows). Samsung drives for example, absolutely require trim or they will grind to a halt.

To enable:
Open the Terminal and enter:
sudo trimforce enable

Enter your password when prompted.

Note that this flag is stored to individual user accounts! There is no global setting for the OSX install as far as I know.

Firmware madness:
It is now strongly recommended to do a clean install of OSX and migrate any old system to it as opposed to running an update install or simply cloning a previous system to a new (different hardware) machine. OSX is still supposed to have this feature with a 'one size fits all' install but they're screwing up here and there.

One of the bugs with the update style install is some firmware updates can get missed. The new APFS disk format requires a firmware update to run correctly. Without it, a SSD will grind to a halt with a very corrupted OSX much like with the trim issue.

To avoid this or bail yourself out, do a clean install of OSX from a patched USB installer. I posted about how to do two different fixes to the buggy 10.13 installer that between them cover every machine out there.


Cloning:
More care is needed now. Up through OSX 10.6 you could simply clone any install to any machine and the 'one size fits all' OSX install just worked. Cracks started appearing with 10.7. The feature is absolutely still supposed to be there and still works flawlessly between many machines. But oh boy, the ones where it doesn't... Since 10.12 now, you are strongly advised to pretend this just isn't a thing anymore! Consider doing a clean install and migrating from an older system instead for a guaranteed method. You absolutely should still make backup clones for the same system! Just understand that you can't shuffle them between just any machine anymore.


Kinda feels like the stuff we used to make fun of the Windows camp for doesn't it...

Last edited by serr; 04-02-2018 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:27 AM   #2
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Nice write-up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
You're looking to spot a SSD that's crawling along at only around 20mb/sec.
I'm pretty sure you mean 20 MB/s.

Quote:
Firmware madness:One of the bugs with the update style install is some firmware updates can get missed. The new APFS disk format requires a firmware update to run correctly. ...

To avoid this or bail yourself out, do a clean install of OSX from a patched USB installer...

Cloning:
More care is needed now...

Just understand that you can't shuffle them between just any machine anymore.

Kinda feels like the stuff we used to make fun of the Windows camp for doesn't it...
All of that is going the way of the Dodo, if you ask me. In 10.14, only an install from the network will be allowed. There will still be hacks to download the system and install from disk or USB key, but they will be increasingly harder to maintain.

Cloning might still be possible, but it will only be to the same Mac. More and more keys are being shifted to the secure enclave and cloning to another Mac won't copy these. It also seems very, very, very hard to include those keys into a cloned copy. It would require a third party to reverse engineer the secure enclave. Don't see that happening this century. But maybe, just maybe, Apple might include that into Disk utility. I don't expect it to happen though, since it would be contrary to secure enclave's goal.

The discussion is still going on. We might be still allowed cloning and 3rd party kernel extensions, since the fortune 500 companies rely heavily on those for management of their fleet. It looks bleek though, as Apple still feels none of the use cases provided is unavoidable and 3rd parties should find other ways to make their MDM solutions work. Audio interfaces needing 3rd party kernel extensions aren't even part of the discussion.

The first machine that incorporates the secure enclave, is the iMac Pro. It had a separate OSX system till 10.13.4. Of course, older machines will not be ruled out fast. But I can see it becoming exceedingly harder not to upgrade OSX to the newest version. As we stand, Apple is still patching three systems: High Sierra, Sierra and El Capital. But that only happened because of lots of noise from the userbase. Their intention was to only patch the latest two.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:13 AM   #3
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We're going to see the last usable version of OSX very soon. I wouldn't be shocked if that turns out to be 10.13 either! Six years out now on pro machines and OSX starting to crumble. Sometime in the next 2 - 4 years Apple will release a fully broken OSX and it will be time to move to Linux.

In the meantime, check your drive speed!
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:43 AM   #4
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We're going to see the last usable version of OSX very soon. I wouldn't be shocked if that turns out to be 10.13 either! Six years out now on pro machines and OSX starting to crumble. Sometime in the next 2 - 4 years Apple will release a fully broken OSX and it will be time to move to Linux.

In the meantime, check your drive speed!
Wow your such a positive person.. lol.., I have no problems with macOS 10.13.4 on my iMac.., and by the way guys its now called 'macOS' not OSX.

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Old 04-02-2018, 09:26 AM   #5
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Wow your such a positive person.. lol.., I have no problems with macOS 10.13.4 on my iMac.., and by the way guys its now called 'macOS' not OSX.

.

.
Generally. I love my Macs. Reaper is amazing. We live in a golden age of audio now. I can download perfect 24 bit HD 5.1 surround sound versions of albums for a lot of music. Sometimes I can even make mixes that don't suck!

So, no 10.12 wasn't the last version of OSX. Will 10.13 be? We'll find out soon enough. Still happiness and light compared to Windows perhaps but Apple is very much shitting the bed right now.
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Old 04-02-2018, 09:55 AM   #6
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Generally. I love my Macs. Reaper is amazing. We live in a golden age of audio now. I can download perfect 24 bit HD 5.1 surround sound versions of albums for a lot of music. Sometimes I can even make mixes that don't suck!

So, no 10.12 wasn't the last version of OSX. Will 10.13 be? We'll find out soon enough. Still happiness and light compared to Windows perhaps but Apple is very much shitting the bed right now.
So how is Apple shitting the bed right now?.., I have had no problems at all with my iMac and high sierra.,

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Old 04-02-2018, 11:36 AM   #7
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Cloning any system to any machine no longer 100%.
Bugs in the last two installer builds for certain machines. (Patches are currently all 3rd party too.)
Feature regression. (Spaces -> Mission control is an older example now.)
Some faux pas that can be real zingers for people like the box being ticked by default in the OSX installer for turning disk encryption on. All the silly call home stuff. Some newer features are missing in menus and require terminal commands.
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:34 PM   #8
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Wow your such a positive person.. lol.., I have no problems with macOS 10.13.4 on my iMac.., and by the way guys its now called 'macOS' not OSX.
It's still called Mac OSX in developer code & docs...

At least they understand how important that is for searching Google etc. But it seems Apple has decided docs are no longer needed at all.
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:35 PM   #9
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...like the box being ticked by default in the OSX installer for turning disk encryption on...
And then leaking the password in plain text in the NEW! unified log...
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Old 04-02-2018, 02:40 PM   #10
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So how is Apple shitting the bed right now?.., I have had no problems at all with my iMac and high sierra.,
Apple is *apparently* planning to rule out all 3rd party kernel extensions. That makes life impossible for anti-virus software developers, audio- or video interface developers and some other...

Not a problem yet. But it just might stop you from upgrading if you own several thousand dollar RME, Apogee or other >8 channel audio interface. The manufacturer won't be able to provide a driver and you can buy new stuff.
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Old 04-03-2018, 03:11 AM   #11
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Apple is *apparently* planning to rule out all 3rd party kernel extensions. That makes life impossible for anti-virus software developers, audio- or video interface developers and some other...

Not a problem yet. But it just might stop you from upgrading if you own several thousand dollar RME, Apogee or other >8 channel audio interface. The manufacturer won't be able to provide a driver and you can buy new stuff.

When i see it happen i will believe it.., we can not stop change so i will not hold my breath, and most audio interfaces for mac hardware work from apple 'core audio' so i fail to see how it will be a problem for developers in the future.., and as i said it is called macOS, the X in the developer code and docs is just signifying 10 still, so i fail to see your point there also.., this is all semantics.

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Old 04-03-2018, 12:15 PM   #12
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When i see it happen i will believe it...
That is the problem with a lot of people. They don't know much, but believe what the will...
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:51 PM   #13
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I think a simple explanation is that Apple are spending their time with devices for social media consumption nowadays. They made all these pro machines a few years ago now that will run for 20 years and we're all still using them is another thing.

Speculation about what Apple might do aside, do check your hard drive speed if you are having weird issues. If you didn't do a clean install of 10.13, you should. (It's the easiest way to get a current firmware update for one thing. Downloading individual firmware updates from Apple it hit or miss right now.)
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Old 04-03-2018, 01:00 PM   #14
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Cloning any system to any machine no longer 100%.
Bugs in the last two installer builds for certain machines. (Patches are currently all 3rd party too.)
Feature regression. (Spaces -> Mission control is an older example now.)
Some faux pas that can be real zingers for people like the box being ticked by default in the OSX installer for turning disk encryption on. All the silly call home stuff. Some newer features are missing in menus and require terminal commands.
I hear ya, but what if an OSX user never ever used this OSX functionality and maybe never will ? (like me).
Then that user would totally disagree on you regarding OSX regressions (cause he doesn't experience them in real life) , and will state that OSX is just rock solid over many years and has just been a very pleasure to work with (like me).
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:35 PM   #15
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Cloning:
More care is needed now. Up through OSX 10.6 you could simply clone any install to any machine and the 'one size fits all' OSX install just worked. Cracks started appearing with 10.7. The feature is absolutely still supposed to be there and still works flawlessly between many machines. But oh boy, the ones where it doesn't... Since 10.12 now, you are strongly advised to pretend this just isn't a thing anymore! Consider doing a clean install and migrating from an older system instead for a guaranteed method. You absolutely should still make backup clones for the same system! Just understand that you can't shuffle them between just any machine anymore.

In Feb I helped a friend upgrade his dying 2009 DAW MBP to a current MBP. I swore to him it wouldn't be a big deal to migrate his current drive state to the new one. So many options of how to do it, I crowed.

Not. Even Migration Assistant from the most recent Time Machine simply wouldn't work. TM grinded away preparing the job for two hours until we bailed and rebooted and tried again. Another two hours of...well, couldn't tell. 6 hours from when we began we punted and wiped, reinstalled and re-downloaded the software he used. Not only was getting up and running on the new MBP with a one or two shot shuffle from the old one NOT the smooth process Apple says it is, even its fall back option (Migration Assistant instead of a clone of latest system and the rest) didn't work. Ended up just reloading his library files manually. At least I could look at the clock and think "OK, this will take 20 minutes".

I never had such a problem going from a MBP to a new one earlier than a 2016, and earlier than this year's OS, and possibly going from a 2015 one to a current one would go fine. But Apple definitely is not filling their system dept with either enough or good enough.

And is Apple the only company that leaves out a progress monitor when it's most desired? Or has one running that is not a real reflection on the amount of time that is left?
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:51 PM   #16
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The newest TouchBar MB Pro's and the iMac Pro have several extra processors on board that provide "secure booting". If one of these decides a "no go", the Intel even doesn't get powered. They can also prevent booting from external media.

It's a good thing, as they check EFI firmware and in doing so prevent a user from installing a system that requires the newer firmware. But at the same time, it's bad, as it prevents simple cloning of a system.

It also provides a lot of new security measures. The keys to your castle used to be in the KeyChain. But now, Apple has a master key to your castle, stored in the memory of the ARM processor. A place the user can't even reach. It will prevent hackers from stealing the master key. But you'll have to live with it, even if you don't worry about your castle being broken into.

It's of utmost importance to Apple, though. They want to be your bank. And to do that, they need a secure key system. Apple Pay seems to get a slow rollout. A Dutch online bank almost bypassed Apple in offering Apple Pay in Holland before Apple was ready. Of course, they were menaced back.

We might not see 10.15. It might just come with yet another name, run on an ARM instead of an Intel and run X86 code in an emualtor (Marzipan).

I just wish Apple would do some very serious bug fixing in High Sierra. If that would happen, I might just buy a newer Mac and upgrade. As long as that doesn't happen, I'll hold out in my castle, atop Mavericks
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:19 AM   #17
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The newest TouchBar MB Pro's and the iMac Pro have several extra processors on board that provide "secure booting". If one of these decides a "no go", the Intel even doesn't get powered. They can also prevent booting from external media.

It's a good thing, as they check EFI firmware and in doing so prevent a user from installing a system that requires the newer firmware. But at the same time, it's bad, as it prevents simple cloning of a system.

It also provides a lot of new security measures. The keys to your castle used to be in the KeyChain. But now, Apple has a master key to your castle, stored in the memory of the ARM processor. A place the user can't even reach. It will prevent hackers from stealing the master key. But you'll have to live with it, even if you don't worry about your castle being broken into.

It's of utmost importance to Apple, though. They want to be your bank. And to do that, they need a secure key system. Apple Pay seems to get a slow rollout. A Dutch online bank almost bypassed Apple in offering Apple Pay in Holland before Apple was ready. Of course, they were menaced back.

We might not see 10.15. It might just come with yet another name, run on an ARM instead of an Intel and run X86 code in an emualtor (Marzipan).

I just wish Apple would do some very serious bug fixing in High Sierra. If that would happen, I might just buy a newer Mac and upgrade. As long as that doesn't happen, I'll hold out in my castle, atop Mavericks

This is all very speculative of you.., "if" those processors decide no go/break..., you could say that about anything really.
Security is good yes.., but for me i do not need everything saved on my computer, nothing is ever going to be completely safe.

Its obvious that apple will eventually go with there own CPUs, the macbook i can see being first, but until Apple CPUs are as powerful as Intels desktop class CPUs then its going to be quite a few more years of waiting.., High Seirra like all software has bugs, for me High Sierra has worked perfect.

.

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Old 04-06-2018, 06:10 PM   #18
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This is all very speculative of you.., "if" those processors decide no go/break..., you could say that about anything really.
LOL.

It's the ARM processor that will decide to boot or not. According to Apple's rules. And it won't boot any OS that's not signed by Apple. It also doesn't boot from external media, by default. You can switch that in security settings, of course, but if you forget that and the system on your internal SSD gets damaged, or the SSD dies, you're toast. Even after replacing the disk, the Mac won't boot.

And that system is already present in the iMac Pro.

But you think I'm speculating... Hehe. That's a real good one.


Quote:
Security is good yes.., but for me i do not need everything saved on my computer, nothing is ever going to be completely safe.
You simply have no idea what you're goin' on about, do you?

Quote:
Its obvious that apple will eventually go with there own CPUs, the macbook i can see being first, but until Apple CPUs are as powerful as Intels desktop class CPUs then its going to be quite a few more years of waiting.., High Seirra like all software has bugs, for me High Sierra has worked perfect.
ARM A10's (like in the iPhone X) already are more powerful than the Intel processors in today's Macbook Pro's. You'd need a beefy Mac Pro to outclass them. Or a "workstation class" PC. And the average user doesn't care. An iPhone X is speedy enough to browse the web and watch a movie.

Open you eyes. It's happening. The new Mac Pro, expected in 2019, will have the same system.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:17 PM   #19
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And is Apple the only company that leaves out a progress monitor when it's most desired? Or has one running that is not a real reflection on the amount of time that is left?
Seriously, there's at least one other company famous for bad predictions in progress monitors for a system install. You know which company, I think.

But I recently encountered one that went backwards. And that was on Linux.

Leaving it out is a Bad Idea tho...
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Old 04-06-2018, 08:00 PM   #20
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LOL.

It's the ARM processor that will decide to boot or not. According to Apple's rules. And it won't boot any OS that's not signed by Apple. It also doesn't boot from external media, by default. You can switch that in security settings, of course, but if you forget that and the system on your internal SSD gets damaged, or the SSD dies, you're toast. Even after replacing the disk, the Mac won't boot.
That honestly sounds like a great configuration for a banking executive or FBI agent. It would be about the worst choice possible for any professional work like audio or video of course. Literally every one of those points is a negative and would be considered "broken" in a pro machine. Sacrificing performance completely to security against physical access and building it with expensive hardware in a disposable configuration is loony to me.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:51 AM   #21
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LOL.

It's the ARM processor that will decide to boot or not. According to Apple's rules. And it won't boot any OS that's not signed by Apple. It also doesn't boot from external media, by default. You can switch that in security settings, of course, but if you forget that and the system on your internal SSD gets damaged, or the SSD dies, you're toast. Even after replacing the disk, the Mac won't boot.

And that system is already present in the iMac Pro.

But you think I'm speculating... Hehe. That's a real good one.




You simply have no idea what you're goin' on about, do you?



ARM A10's (like in the iPhone X) already are more powerful than the Intel processors in today's Macbook Pro's. You'd need a beefy Mac Pro to outclass them. Or a "workstation class" PC. And the average user doesn't care. An iPhone X is speedy enough to browse the web and watch a movie.

Open you eyes. It's happening. The new Mac Pro, expected in 2019, will have the same system.


Wow your very much the sensationalist.., lol.., I do not care if my ssd breaks everything gets replaced every few years, I have backups, and all my personal info is not on any of my computers and never will be so how is that not knowing what I am on about????, you sound a bit paranoid there.., apple allows windows to boot on their hardware so your just not making any logical sense, according to you apples A10 arm chip is as powerful as the i7 laptop class Intel processor???, as I have said the MacBook will be the first to use apples own CPUs, I think its good if Apple use their own CPUs and produce all of their own hardware, so I fail to see what your point is at all apart from being a hardcore sensationalist.. and paranoid.., haha.

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Old 04-07-2018, 09:00 AM   #22
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You don't understand.

I don't want or need that security, just like you. It's Apple who needs it. And that means we'll have to live with it.

I don't think the MB Pro will be the first to have an ARM processor. I expect it to be the 2019 Mac Pro. Or maybe the Mini. Don't know.

I'm not paranoid at all. Just observing what a lot of people don't want to see, apparently. If you had anything to do with administering servers, maybe you'd understand.

Apple's Server application has been scrapped, fi. That means the thousands of admins out there that run servers on a Mini, will need to migrate to Linux. That's not an easy thing to do in a hurry.

Having machines that are locked down this way, won't please anyone.

Cloning a disk will soon be a thing of the past, UNLESS you are cloning your disk, for your machine. Not even putting back the clone on the same model machine will work.

Etc. Etc...
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Old 04-07-2018, 09:35 AM   #23
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You don't understand.

I don't want or need that security, just like you. It's Apple who needs it. And that means we'll have to live with it.

I don't think the MB Pro will be the first to have an ARM processor. I expect it to be the 2019 Mac Pro. Or maybe the Mini. Don't know.

I'm not paranoid at all. Just observing what a lot of people don't want to see, apparently. If you had anything to do with administering servers, maybe you'd understand.

Apple's Server application has been scrapped, fi. That means the thousands of admins out there that run servers on a Mini, will need to migrate to Linux. That's not an easy thing to do in a hurry.

Having machines that are locked down this way, won't please anyone.

Cloning a disk will soon be a thing of the past, UNLESS you are cloning your disk, for your machine. Not even putting back the clone on the same model machine will work.

Etc. Etc...

I still do not see what the problem is.., change happens you can not stop it.., I learnt many many years to learn to use cross platform software so that when change happens I can change/adapt as quickly as possible.., eventually everything will probably be cloud based also, we will not need a hard drive, everything will be on the internet of things.

The Apple server was stopped a long time ago now.

I believe the new Mac Pro will still use Intel CPUs, the MacBook will one day use Apple CPUs, also the capitalist markets rule so if people do not like the change they do not buy and apple loses.., so in saying that I look forward to change.

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Old 04-07-2018, 01:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Futur8me View Post
eventually everything will probably be cloud based also, we will not need a hard drive, everything will be on the internet of things.
You understand that the "cloud" is literally a hard drive on someone else's machine in another building in another city where you have a folder you rent (or a small one for free) that you need an internet connection to connect to right?

If you're interested in purchasing a computer that requires an internet connection just to boot and use and with absolutely no ability to troubleshoot or reconfigure yourself, OK. And fine with something costing $1000 - $3000 being fully disposable, alright again.

Some of us want production machines and continue to want production machines. Our favorite computer maker, Apple, doesn't offer that anymore. My Apple bashing is aimed at their stopping making the products I liked them for.

The content creators (and cloud service hosts) will still need fully functional machines in the dystopian scenario where the average consumer abandons them.

Again, that 'security gone wild' configuration outlined above really does sound like a great fit for a bank CEO or FBI agent. Really truly. I can't use it.

On another note, I'm just happy script commands seem to be the same in Linux as OSX!
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Old 04-07-2018, 01:53 PM   #25
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The Apple server was stopped a long time ago now.
That shows how little you know.

I'm not talking about the Xserve. I'm talking about the Server application. Most of the functionality of that app has already been removed, yet you can still buy it. Apple has announced that it will be obsoleted in the near future. NO speculation, mere fact.

People who have been running a Wiki for many years are now scrambling to export their data and import it into a Linux Wiki server software. Without any help from Apple. In some cases, this turned into a regular nightmare because of minor incompatibilities in the software. A problem which could have been easily avoided, if Apple would have shown a little care. But Apple seems to have counted heads and concluded that the few hundreds running a Wiki on a Mac server weren't worth the trouble.
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Old 04-07-2018, 02:04 PM   #26
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That honestly sounds like a great configuration for a banking executive or FBI agent. It would be about the worst choice possible for any professional work like audio or video of course. Literally every one of those points is a negative and would be considered "broken" in a pro machine. Sacrificing performance completely to security against physical access and building it with expensive hardware in a disposable configuration is loony to me.
That's how it seems to be with current betas. We can't talk about that, of course, because of NDA's

I'm sure some problems will be solved, as the discussions between Apple and the corporate world and Apple and 3rd party developers is still going on. But Apple seems very decided to kill 3rd party kernel extensions, fi. Private netboot has already been killed. Cloning will be restricted. Installing a system will be limited to an internet install, unless you're a corporate entity and have an MDM (remote fleet management) solution installed. No install from USB keys, fi.

I think that closing the box (eg making every app sandboxed, iOS style) will be very hard for audio and video software. Can you imagine what will happen when every app needs to have it's own set of plugins, fi?

I don't know if larger (>8 channels) audio interfaces will be possible without a custom kernel extension. It feels as if Apple has decided that USB audio class type interfaces is all we need. No VST accelerators or external DSP effects. Maybe these are possible without a kernel extension, over thunderbolt, but it would at least mean buying new hardware.

I kind of hope I'm wrong. But I've seen this coming for years now and 'till now I haven't been wrong much, unfortunately.
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Old 04-08-2018, 05:04 AM   #27
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SEMANTICS.

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.

.
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