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Old 10-29-2020, 12:02 PM   #10881
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Originally Posted by Nick Morris View Post
I dig what you did there Geoff with the Launch Pad. Looks great!

I think if you have an iPad or tablet, the free Avid Control app is brilliant for making pages and pages of actions available.

So much is packed into that free app. Metering, transport, basic eucon mixing controls, etc. all in one.
Yup, that's a great app !

Reminds me of the centre action of the Artist Control, very valuable addition to the arsenal.

The only thing -- it is not tactile -- for Play, Stop, Record, etc. the LaunchPad rules -- that certainly doesn't mean it can't get help from something else for other functions though

That's really the whole philosophy of CSI - control surface integration
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:05 PM   #10882
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Working through the new touch approach.

Want to make sure a touch state doesn't get accidentally latched (stuck in the touched position).

This could happen if an Action is touched (because the underlying widget is touched) and you:

Banked
Changed Zones
Changed Pages

Anyone think of anything else that must be taken into account ?
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:08 PM   #10883
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Working through the new touch approach.

Want to make sure a touch state doesn't get accidentally latched (stuck in the touched position).

This could happen if an Action is touched (because the underlying widget is touched) and you:

Banked
Changed Zones
Changed Pages

Anyone think of anything else that must be taken into account ?
FocusFX or maybe even FocusFXParam? I guess the former is changing zones, I'm not sure the latter necessarily requires that though.

Syntax makes sense and I think these will tidy things up.
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:09 PM   #10884
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
FocusFX or maybe even FocusFXParam? I guess the former is changing zones, I'm not sure the latter necessarily requires that though.

Syntax makes sense and I think these will tidy things up.
Good points -- thanks.
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:13 PM   #10885
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
FocusFX or maybe even FocusFXParam? I guess the former is changing zones, I'm not sure the latter necessarily requires that though.

Syntax makes sense and I think these will tidy things up.
Thanks for leading the way earlier, this has potential to clean up the internals substantially too.
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Old 10-29-2020, 02:57 PM   #10886
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Here's how I do it with the LaunchPad mini mk3.

The labels are easily movable/removable, and when they fade I just print some more

Geoff, the alignment of those stickers is superb! Is someone a little OCD perhaps?
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:43 PM   #10887
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Geoff, the alignment of those stickers is superb! Is someone a little OCD perhaps?
A little OCD, a LITTLE OCD?

Geez, I think the alignment sucks.

Think I'll go with WAY more than a little
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:35 PM   #10888
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not sure what happened but i did a fresh install of Mojave, Reaper and CSI w/ latest CSI + EuCon build and I've lost my artist mix.
Setup exactly as before but I can't select ports or address for artist mix.
following install exactly as per wiki.
unzip'd latest CSI and EuCon build and put CSI folder in Reaper resources.
both integrator and eucon dylib in UserPlugins.
select CSI in reaper prefs.
see target eucon in right box.
edit to see name, zon, channels, etc but NO port address.
have I missed something?

MTIA y'all.

jb
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Old 10-29-2020, 06:01 PM   #10889
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Originally Posted by plus9db View Post
not sure what happened but i did a fresh install of Mojave, Reaper and CSI w/ latest CSI + EuCon build and I've lost my artist mix.
Setup exactly as before but I can't select ports or address for artist mix.
following install exactly as per wiki.
unzip'd latest CSI and EuCon build and put CSI folder in Reaper resources.
both integrator and eucon dylib in UserPlugins.
select CSI in reaper prefs.
see target eucon in right box.
edit to see name, zon, channels, etc but NO port address.
have I missed something?

MTIA y'all.

jb
You don't need to select any ports. So you added CSI and added a Eucon surface... Did you go back and also add Eucon in the Control/OSC/Web page in preferences? It needs to be in both.
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Old 10-30-2020, 02:29 AM   #10890
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OK, thinking of removing the "Hold" modifier.

Only one person asked for it.

I really don't see it as fitting the CSI paradigm.

CSI is all about immediacy, predictability, reliability.

I tried the example someone gave.

The idea was to hold the metronome button down for a period of time -- that would open up the metronome settings -- Reaper Action 40363.

It works, but then what -- when you are finished, you have to reach for the mouse to close the window -- uggh.

Not to mention that you have now toggled the metronome state -- uggh again.

A much better solution is to map a modifier action (Shift, Control, Option, Alt) for this purpose.

I appreciate the pushback that someone will advocate -- "but my surface only has a few buttons".

To that I say, mapping just one modifier doubles your button count - 1 (the modifier mapping itself).

To me, Hold is not in the mold of CSI

It violates the immediacy, predictability, reliability tenets.

Unless someone comes up with a real good reason to keep it, going... going... gone.
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Old 10-30-2020, 03:45 AM   #10891
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Here's how I do it with the LaunchPad mini mk3.

The labels are easily movable/removable, and when they fade I just print some more

Hehehehehehe[/Beavis]

That gives me some ideas. Just have to find the labeling material.
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Old 10-30-2020, 05:08 AM   #10892
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OK, thinking of removing the "Hold" modifier.

Only one person asked for it.

I really don't see it as fitting the CSI paradigm.

CSI is all about immediacy, predictability, reliability.

I tried the example someone gave.

The idea was to hold the metronome button down for a period of time -- that would open up the metronome settings -- Reaper Action 40363.

It works, but then what -- when you are finished, you have to reach for the mouse to close the window -- uggh.

Not to mention that you have now toggled the metronome state -- uggh again.

A much better solution is to map a modifier action (Shift, Control, Option, Alt) for this purpose.

I appreciate the pushback that someone will advocate -- "but my surface only has a few buttons".

To that I say, mapping just one modifier doubles your button count - 1 (the modifier mapping itself).

To me, Hold is not in the mold of CSI

It violates the immediacy, predictability, reliability tenets.

Unless someone comes up with a real good reason to keep it, going... going... gone.
I hated that hold fired the original action. Agree with the above. Modifiers work better.
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Old 10-30-2020, 05:54 AM   #10893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
OK, thinking of removing the "Hold" modifier.

Only one person asked for it.

I really don't see it as fitting the CSI paradigm.

CSI is all about immediacy, predictability, reliability.

I tried the example someone gave.

The idea was to hold the metronome button down for a period of time -- that would open up the metronome settings -- Reaper Action 40363.

It works, but then what -- when you are finished, you have to reach for the mouse to close the window -- uggh.

Not to mention that you have now toggled the metronome state -- uggh again.

A much better solution is to map a modifier action (Shift, Control, Option, Alt) for this purpose.

I appreciate the pushback that someone will advocate -- "but my surface only has a few buttons".

To that I say, mapping just one modifier doubles your button count - 1 (the modifier mapping itself).

To me, Hold is not in the mold of CSI

It violates the immediacy, predictability, reliability tenets.

Unless someone comes up with a real good reason to keep it, going... going... gone.

I use Hold to open and close Folder tracks and VCAs and it works very well.

The original case for Hold was because quite a few people (definitely more than one) liked the Klinke implementation for folder tracks and wanted it reproduced in CSI.

Regarding Modifiers, yes it can be done that way, but it needs two hands to make it happen. Clumsy.

Personally, i'd keep it for those reasons.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:12 AM   #10894
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
I use Hold to open and close Folder tracks and VCAs and it works very well.

The original case for Hold was because quite a few people (definitely more than one) liked the Klinke implementation for folder tracks and wanted it reproduced in CSI.

Regarding Modifiers, yes it can be done that way, but it needs two hands to make it happen. Clumsy.

Personally, i'd keep it for those reasons.
Just curious, what button do you have hold assigned to and what actions are assigned to both? I just personally never found a good way to make hold work for me without it doing something I didn't necessarily want it to first. Hence why I agree with Geoff that modifiers work better in those use-cases, but I'm not familiar with how Klinke implemented folders so now I'm curious.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:19 AM   #10895
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
Just curious, what button do you have hold assigned to and what actions are assigned to both? I just personally never found a good way to make hold work for me without it doing something I didn't necessarily want it to first. Hence why I agree with Geoff that modifiers work better in those use-cases, but I'm not familiar with how Klinke implemented folders so now I'm curious.
In the Channel Zone:
Code:
    Hold+Select|                TrackUniqueSelect
    Hold+Select|                Reaper "41665"
    Hold+Select|                TrackToggleVCASpill
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:21 AM   #10896
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Anyone made a basic .mst that works with X Touch and could share, so I'd have a starting point?
I can't read the whole thread to find anything...

Currently the beta has Console1, Launchpad, Mcu and Roland, and none of them work at all with my X touch. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?...
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:22 AM   #10897
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
In the Channel Zone:
Code:
    Hold+Select|                TrackUniqueSelect
    Hold+Select|                Reaper "41665"
    Hold+Select|                TrackToggleVCASpill
Makes perfect sense on the select button. Great case for keeping hold.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:25 AM   #10898
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Originally Posted by FreeMind View Post
Anyone made a basic .mst that works with X Touch and could share, so I'd have a starting point?
I can't read the whole thread to find anything...

Currently the beta has Console1, Launchpad, Mcu and Roland, and none of them work at all with my X touch. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?...
Have a look here: https://siniarch.wixsite.com/csiconfigfiles
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:26 AM   #10899
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
In the Channel Zone:
Code:
    Hold+Select|                TrackUniqueSelect
    Hold+Select|                Reaper "41665"
    Hold+Select|                TrackToggleVCASpill
Yup, good reason to keep it, I stand corrected
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:26 AM   #10900
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Originally Posted by FreeMind View Post
Anyone made a basic .mst that works with X Touch and could share, so I'd have a starting point?
I can't read the whole thread to find anything...

Currently the beta has Console1, Launchpad, Mcu and Roland, and none of them work at all with my X touch. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?...
Try this.

EDIT: Sorry, my bad. This won't work with the latest CSI version. You'll need to use this one:
https://stash.reaper.fm/v/40308/CSI%20beta-30.zip

Last edited by MixMonkey; 11-05-2020 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:27 AM   #10901
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Originally Posted by FreeMind View Post
Anyone made a basic .mst that works with X Touch and could share, so I'd have a starting point?
I can't read the whole thread to find anything...

Currently the beta has Console1, Launchpad, Mcu and Roland, and none of them work at all with my X touch. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong?...
The X-Touch should work in the MCU versions but you can also download a more specific mapping here:

https://siniarch.wixsite.com/csiconfigfiles

Note: there's been a change to the syntax so you'll need to edit the .zon files. Where you used to see:

Code:
Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Channel|1-8"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
You'll now use [edited]...

Code:
Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Channel"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
If you run into trouble...post here.

Don't forget to disable the X-Touch in Reaper's Preferences -> MIDI Devices. CSI overrides that needs the ports open.

Last edited by Funkybot; 10-30-2020 at 07:07 AM.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:29 AM   #10902
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Default I'm working hard for the blind Reaper's community, please, help me! :)

Hi!
Please, forgive my english.

First, a big thank you for that well designed project. Great achievement!

I'm working on a text-to-speech translator in Python for the blind. Thousands (myself included) great blind musicians and producers are now on Reaper thanks to OSARA, making it fully accessible.
The control surfaces screen aren't so I'm working on it!
In Python, i'm able to translate to speech everything that enters a control surface, the devices chenges etc.. Right now, i'm working with the DrivenByMoss MCU driver.

It all works. But I need this to achieve my goal.

- Is it possible to map devices like on MCU, meaning, I press the Device or plugin button and I get the first plugin on 8 faders. Switching FX's with bank buttons? (for example but I can map anything else)
- I need to be able to receive the full names of tracks, plugins and FX's. I've tested with the CSI MCU and it respects the protocol but, is there a way, with a switch, to activate Track names, FX names and parameters in full length? It won't work on physical hardware but on my side, i'll intercept the names and nothing has to be seen. So, the MIDI msg for a list of parameters, insteand of "Express Dynmcs Reverb Vibrat ..." will be "Expression Dynamics Reverb Vibrato" etc.. Some parameter names are unreadable by a screen reader, like 'Mic Spill Violins" being "msplvl"
- I don't ask to change the standard but a switch on/off for all display names (tracks,fx,params) is fundamental to my project.

Thanks for your help! Don't hesitate to ask me to clarify things, it may sound unusual! It is.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:56 AM   #10903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
You'll now use...

Code:
Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Channel|"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
Slight correction, the new syntax is:

Code:
Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Channel"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:57 AM   #10904
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Originally Posted by Betov75 View Post
Hi!
Please, forgive my english.

First, a big thank you for that well designed project. Great achievement!

I'm working on a text-to-speech translator in Python for the blind. Thousands (myself included) great blind musicians and producers are now on Reaper thanks to OSARA, making it fully accessible.
The control surfaces screen aren't so I'm working on it!
In Python, i'm able to translate to speech everything that enters a control surface, the devices chenges etc.. Right now, i'm working with the DrivenByMoss MCU driver.

It all works. But I need this to achieve my goal.

- Is it possible to map devices like on MCU, meaning, I press the Device or plugin button and I get the first plugin on 8 faders. Switching FX's with bank buttons? (for example but I can map anything else)
- I need to be able to receive the full names of tracks, plugins and FX's. I've tested with the CSI MCU and it respects the protocol but, is there a way, with a switch, to activate Track names, FX names and parameters in full length? It won't work on physical hardware but on my side, i'll intercept the names and nothing has to be seen. So, the MIDI msg for a list of parameters, insteand of "Express Dynmcs Reverb Vibrat ..." will be "Expression Dynamics Reverb Vibrato" etc.. Some parameter names are unreadable by a screen reader, like 'Mic Spill Violins" being "msplvl"
- I don't ask to change the standard but a switch on/off for all display names (tracks,fx,params) is fundamental to my project.

Thanks for your help! Don't hesitate to ask me to clarify things, it may sound unusual! It is.
I'll have to think it through a bit, but I think we can do most, if not all, of what you ask.
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Old 10-30-2020, 07:12 AM   #10905
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Slight correction, the new syntax is:

Code:
Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Channel"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
Copied and pasted from the wrong file. Updated my post.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:41 AM   #10906
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I'll have to think it through a bit, but I think we can do most, if not all, of what you ask.
Great, very appreciated!
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:53 AM   #10907
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I'll have to think it through a bit, but I think we can do most, if not all, of what you ask.
This sounds like a great use of CSI and with touch sensing functionality, the Python software combined with CSI should be able to speak track or parameter name or both.
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Old 10-30-2020, 09:58 AM   #10908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Slight correction, the new syntax is:

Code:
Zone Home
	OnTrackSelection MapSelectedTrackSendsToWidgets
	IncludedZones
		"Channel"
	IncludedZonesEnd
ZoneEnd
Did that.

Anyway, if I load the .mst, but keep the zone "MCU", i get to control the faders, but the VU meters don't work. Also, the buttons on the right don't work for the most part.

If i load the X touch zones instead of the "MCU", the faders, scribble strips and VU meters don't work, but the buttons on the right work...

What else am I missing?

Another question:
I get that you need to communicate with the X touch through "Xctl" mode to get colored tracks, not midi.
Are Xctl surfaces possible?... colors really help :/

Last edited by FreeMind; 10-30-2020 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:26 AM   #10909
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Did that.

Anyway, if I load the .mst, but keep the zone "MCU", i get to control the faders, but the VU meters don't work. Also, the buttons on the right don't work for the most part.

If i load the X touch zones instead of the "MCU", the faders, scribble strips and VU meters don't work, but the buttons on the right work...

What else am I missing?

Another question:
I get that you need to communicate with the X touch through "Xctl" mode to get colored tracks, not midi.
Are Xctl surfaces possible?... colors really help :/
Figured it out.
All Zone names had to be changed, not just the Channel in that one place.
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Old 10-30-2020, 10:55 AM   #10910
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Figured it out.
All Zone names had to be changed, not just the Channel in that one place.
Probably had to replace the pipes in the zone names right? Was going to mention that.

Things are in flux and the documentation hasn't been updated yet. If you run into any additional trouble, you can post your .zon here and wrap it in the code brackets.

Geoff, when things are a little more locked down code-wise, if you want me to help out with the documentation piece on the new wiki like before, I'd be happy to pitch in for the parts I understand.
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Old 10-30-2020, 11:07 AM   #10911
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hey everyone, I think I missed something, tried to update today from the 5/5 build, and Reaper crashes.
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Old 10-30-2020, 12:14 PM   #10912
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Originally Posted by poetnprophet View Post
hey everyone, I think I missed something, tried to update today from the 5/5 build, and Reaper crashes.
Major syntax changes from 5/5 is the reason

i would hold off for a day or two, just completely redoing Touch, which will result in a much better implementation -- touch envelope control of Volume, Pan, Pan Width, Pan Left, Pan Right, as well as all FX params.

The tradeoff is that there will be major changes to the .mst, .ost, and .zon files needed.
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Old 10-30-2020, 12:20 PM   #10913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Major syntax changes from 5/5 is the reason

i would hold off for a day or two, just completely redoing Touch, which will result in a much better implementation -- touch envelope control of Volume, Pan, Pan Width, Pan Left, Pan Right, as well as all FX params.

The tradeoff is that there will be major changes to the .mst, .ost, and .zon files needed.
Okie doke, all good. I really have no need to update, just trying to stay up to date. cheers and thank you!
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Old 10-30-2020, 01:09 PM   #10914
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Been fiddling with the .mst and .zon files and I am getting a hang of it.
I think i now get how it works, remapped some buttons with success.

However, there are still some questions. Here's one:
How exactly do I set whether an LED on the X touch is on, off, or blinking?

For example, there are these arrow controls on it, and the middle button toggles between "ZoomOn" and "ZoomOff" zones, but I don't know how to set it, so that the button LED would be On or Off dependant on the zone i'm in.

Code:
Zone "ZoomOff"
	Up			Reaper		"_S&M_SELFXPREV"		// SWS/S&M: Select previous FX (cycling) for selected tracks
	Down			Reaper		"_S&M_SELFXNEXT"		// SWS/S&M: Select next FX (cycling) for selected tracks
	Left			Reaper 		"40172"				//PREVIOUS MARKER
	Right			Reaper 		"40173"				//NEXT MARKER
	Zoom 			GoZone 		ZoomOn
				
ZoneEnd 

  
Zone "ZoomOn"
	Up			Reaper			"40111"				// Zoom in vertical
	Down			Reaper			"40112"				// Zoom out vertical
	Right			Reaper			"1012"				// Zoom in horizontal
	Left			Reaper			"1011"				// Zoom out horizontal
	Shift+Up		Reaper			"41325"				// View: Increase selected track heights
	Shift+Down		Reaper			"41326"				// View: Decrease selected track heights
	Zoom 			GoZone 			ZoomOff
ZoneEnd
the .mst I'm editing has this comment written:
X-Touch LEDs:
Value: 0 = off
Value: 1 = flashing
Value: 2-127 (ff)= on

Though, i do not know where to place this number.

Last edited by FreeMind; 10-30-2020 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 10-30-2020, 04:57 PM   #10915
Geoff Waddington
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DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER

New EXPERIMENTAL builds are up.

"CSI beta Test Touch.zip"

"reaper_csurf_EuCon Test Touch.zip"

There is no longer a touch modifier, the list of modifiers is:

Shift
Control
Option
Alt
Hold
Toggle
Invert

This has been barely tested, please give it a whirl, and not on anything you care about losing

Touch should now "just work" on envelopes using EuCon -- Volume, Pan, Pan Width, Pan Left, Pan Right, and any and all FX.

Have a look at the MCU.mst file -- shows the new syntax, couldn't test, don't have a Midi surface with touch.

Too lazy to test OSC, will wait until things are generally working

Crossing fingers, let me know what you find

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 10-31-2020 at 02:24 AM.
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Old 10-30-2020, 06:31 PM   #10916
Betov75
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Default Plugins and parameters full names

Hi Geoff,
Thanks again for helping. About my request to code a secondary channel for long plugins and params names, it won't be useful now since i'm now able to get everything I want from OSC -> Python. So, no need for my requests. (at this time, at least)
Have a great day
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Old 10-31-2020, 02:25 AM   #10917
Geoff Waddington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betov75 View Post
Hi Geoff,
Thanks again for helping. About my request to code a secondary channel for long plugins and params names, it won't be useful now since i'm now able to get everything I want from OSC -> Python. So, no need for my requests. (at this time, at least)
Have a great day
That's great !!

If you need something in the future, please don't hesitate to ask.
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:22 AM   #10918
cjewellstudios
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Can someone help me get the older build from (IIRC) may 5th?

I can't be of much more help to the bleeding edge because we are on touch/touch automation stuff at the mo, and now that I've been mapping plugins I can't exactly test them fully because stepped params aren't back in the new build yet.
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:03 AM   #10919
FreeMind
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Still can't figure out the Zoom button LED thing.

I assume I need an Action, that makes CSI send a specific MIDI signal to the Surface.
Something like:

Zoom MIDItoSurface "90 64 00"

And that would turn the LED off when you press the "Zoom" button, for example...
But there's no such action, neither do i know if that's the right midi command...
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Old 10-31-2020, 05:32 AM   #10920
Geoff Waddington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjewellstudios View Post
Can someone help me get the older build from (IIRC) may 5th?

I can't be of much more help to the bleeding edge because we are on touch/touch automation stuff at the mo, and now that I've been mapping plugins I can't exactly test them fully because stepped params aren't back in the new build yet.
Stepped parameters are still there, they were never removed.

If you are using FXMenu, that is not back yet, I think @MixMonkey has access to the May 5 build, you might want to check some of his posts, he often provides it either as a link or an attachment.

As well, the regular build should work fine, except for FXMenu and Sends, the newest experimental builds are posted separately.
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