What is Wrong with Stock Plugins - ReaComp (Video by Dan Worrall)

[vitalker]

Originally Posted by earforce

What i find a bit disappointing. All over the years, there were made so much FR for ReaComp. Also the "disfunction" of the AA is know for a long time. Nothing happens. Worral made a video, complained about that and the devs react immediately. Seems the users are not taken seriously.

See pre-release forum.

[Glennbo]

Justin should drop everything else and spend all his time adding LV2 plugin support for the Linux version of REAPER so I can try out two or three free Linux plugins!!!

[sostenuto]

Aha ! President's Day weekend sale _ UBK-1 @ $89. Why not ??

https://www.thehouseofkush.com/store

[JamesPeters]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Justin should drop everything else and spend all his time adding LV2 plugin support for the Linux version of REAPER so I can try out two or three free Linux plugins!!!

Exactly! Ditch Windows and OSX support entirely, because of the MAJORITY of Reaper users who now use Linux which includes me, you, Jack and...well I'm sure a MAJORITY of Reaper users!

[TonE]

Originally Posted by IIRs

Two Ls in Worrall please! But I'm also just a user..?

Who says ReaEQ should also say ReEQ.

Respects, great videos master Worrall!
Reaper forum has lots of masters, just to mention a few, kawa, saike, worrall, and many more, lot's of respects to all of you!

[TonE]

1. The oldest of the open standards is LADSPA. It doesn’t allow for a fancy GUI or for MIDI input, so it’s for effects only.
2. The next open standard is DSSI. It allows a plugin to provide its own user interface and supports MIDI input, thereby allowing for plugin instruments.
3. The newest open standard is LV2, a successor to both LADSPA and DSSI. It allows a custom interface and MIDI support and so can be used for both effects and instruments.
http://lv2plug.in/

Having Vamp-plugin support would be also useful e.g. for generating markers, regions from audio analysis, there are lots of cool stuff, like chordino for chord detection, even with midi output. Put audio, chordino, there you have your midi notes. Why ignoring those possibilities, come on Reaper is not Steinzeitdaw Cubase.

[pcartwright]

Originally Posted by earforce

What i find a bit disappointing. All over the years, there were made so much FR for ReaComp. Also the "disfunction" of the AA is know for a long time. Nothing happens. Worral made a video, complained about that and the devs react immediately. Seems the users are not taken seriously.

Writing about a problem and demonstrating the problem are very different. Kudos to IIRs / Mr. Worrall for demonstrating the problems.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

Exactly! Ditch Windows and OSX support entirely, because of the MAJORITY of Reaper users who now use Linux which includes me, you, Jack and...well I'm sure a MAJORITY of Reaper users!

Also, I don't need the AA button because I drink responsibly!

[pipelineaudio]

Originally Posted by IIRs

Two Ls in Worrall please! But I'm also just a user..?

Not sure if this is the best video on youtube, but if its not, its second only to the honey badger video

[Bri1]

its second only to the honey badger video

rofl- +2.2! vid kills it- bless the creatures.

idk if d.w actually tried 0 hp + 0lp +inf ratio using this compressor-- now this is whacky.

found some time ago...

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

second only to the honey badger video

It dont' give a shit.

[sostenuto]

Tons of cool info here !

Gonna go with today's Plugin Alliance (loyal user) offer _ bx_townhouse Buss Compressor $@ $29. Basically SSL Buss (per videos) with some extras. 24 hrs only.

https://www.plugin-alliance.com/en/p...ompressor.html

[Bri1]

Also the "disfunction" of the AA is know for a long time.

tbch- the aa option always has worked for me- it's only really usefull as a clipping option applied with the auto makeup gain there.- the x amount being a soft clipper almost-- it does little to anti alias the signal itself obviously..but it does work..

well....sorta.

[cutnpaste]

Don't understand why people are upset with the review, you have been using it prior to the review and were happy with it now you are acting like children.

[Bri1]

heh- who is upset 1 wonders... tbh,perhaps dan worall of the 2 l's_ may have done a disservice to community by not actually highlighting the actual beneficial uses of this stockplug- ok,technically it does have a few faults-but what does it actually do in practice?....
well for starters,there's the very fact that this plugin is actually more designed as a parallel compressor!! wut! =yep.

^look at how it has both wet+dry sliders-- this is a ny styler.
dan's video could actually be shredded a little because of settings he uses kinda makes little sense...why? because...
reacomp is basically a 4 in 1 device: user can get: compression+distortion+filtering+gains.
there is actually only 1 stock preset that (imo) gets close to what this can do_ the ny preset. (coz,it uses both wet+dry sliders)
some people may also be doing slight mis_calculations with attack n release times--so, (measure the longest transient distance in timeline,then deduct the attack time+ release to suit)
1 only needs really study the meters actions-to decide on detection modes.

reacomp can also use 4 different detection modes- peak/rms/auto c.d. a.r. and a combination of all..
(imo) the rms is a better choice,but must be set to source materials,obviously...
i really think the included presets,do not show best uses atmo...so maybe testout <<these ones?>>
^do check and tweak settings to suit taste..(on <them presets,mainly threshold+wet)
*tip- i find holding ctrl for fine adjustments, dials in the ratio much much better at lower levels..

[ashcat_lt]

I actually sort of agree with that. For me, the best things about ReaComp are the things it does that more traditional compressors can't. It IS the only compressor I use, but I almost never use it the way the video shows. The majority of what I do involves either long, slow RMS leveling with lookahead (PreComp) with (usually) very low ratios or as saturation with all time constants at zero and ratio all the way up. Maybe it's just my style or maybe it's the material I work with, but I very rarely need or want the sort of envelope shaping that most people do with compressors.

[earforce]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

Look a little bit outside your own perspective for a moment. Try to imagine how the development of Reaper was good for people other than yourself.

Looking outside my own perspective is not my job as user. I am here to tell the community and the REAPER team my point of view. There is nothing wrong with this approach. So no need to respond to my posts, especially in your way.

[earforce]

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

You don't speak for others. That's my point.

Everybody can only speak for himself. Everbody knows that. No need to make that clear.

Originally Posted by JamesPeters

If you want to claim to speak for others, you need to take their perspectives into account.

As I stated, I dont speak for others, just for me.

Your post is redundant.

[lolilol1975]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

Justin should drop everything else and spend all his time adding LV2 plugin support for the Linux version of REAPER so I can try out two or three free Linux plugins!!!

If you are on Linuw you should be using Ardour anyway.
Btw Ardour's plugins look a lot better than the Reaper ones.

[Bri1]

lolz- lots look-but not many comment..bickering over ego matters sooo much more.. iz funz eh..?
point is: reacomp is desperately in need of some tlc- a revised addition=both code+ gui overhaul would smarten this up no end..appearances obviously does mean something other than functional aspects of a plugin- make it fully modernized+working/functional (possibly including some 'ground breaking new features') plus make it pretty,and maybe more will use it.
new look-new name- new code. reaslicker comp.
fk* backwards compatability- people are going forward,not backwards.please spare us all that old chestnut excuse..

loyal customers recommending other softwares or products?? wtf:that is hardly being a happy,satisfied reaper user/customer now is it..
what does coffee smell like? what does a rose smell like? 1 does not know,until they try smelling.

[lolilol1975]

Originally Posted by IIRs

Two Ls in Worrall please! But I'm also just a user..?

Just realized that you were here, M. Worrall.
And definitely you are also a user but a power user, and I see you've been in this forum for more than 10 years now.

The Reaper community is blessed to have top engineers and teachers like Kenny Gioia and you.

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by lolilol1975

If you are on Linuw you should be using Ardour anyway.
Btw Ardour's plugins look a lot better than the Reaper ones.

REAPER for Linux is working as well for me as REAPER for Windows. REAPER's Plugins look better in Linux too.

[kodebode2]

Originally Posted by Justin

Heh watching the AA mode analysis made me blush -- it's always been not-exactly-functional. It's really a feature-latch thing (removing it would break existing projects), I suppose we should hide it when not loading presets/projects that use it.

You are so honest - this had me laughing a lot.

Any more placebos in Reaper which we should know about ?

---

Nevertheless I commend the entire Reaper community for pushing the boundaries for over a decade and making everyone else work harder to catch up.

I had a look at some of the basic well known Waves EQ's like Q10, in the analyzer, and they were no better than ReaEQ with respect to EQ cramping, so much for paid plugins....

At least it partially explains why mixing at higher sample rates sounds "better", with plugins that leave a bit to be desired @ 44.1K.

[Bri1]

The Reaper community is blessed to have top engineers and teachers like

heh^- yuz it iz-but let no1 sit on any high horses or pedal stools-- as these get swiftly dismantled..
it's a biological,cellular collaboration of spirit/intuition+will of a global humanity.
team effort-all parts of the wholeness. =)
plug ins also need care+love+attention as much any human,to make the magic actually:happen.

[antti]

Originally Posted by kodebode2

I had a look at some of the basic well known Waves EQ's like Q10, in the analyzer, and they were no better than ReaEQ with respect to EQ cramping, so much for paid plugins....

You do realize that Q10 was literally the first third party audio plugin ever in history, on any platform?

Waves added decramping with Renaissance EQ which came out twenty years ago or so.

Not that I think either are particularly usable UI-wise but credit where credit is due.

[kodebode2]

Originally Posted by vitalker

There is a free VST plugin analyzer. Windows only though.
http://www.pcjv.de/applications/measurement-programs/

I had used the VST Analyzer(Christian Budde's) which you pointed to, like almost everyone else including plugin manufacturers, for a few years, and it is a very valuable tool, and I credit it and the author for starting this enablement to allow us all see what's going on behind the code.

I tried out the demo of the new kid on the block - DDMF's Plugindoc, which was used in the videos. While the new emperor is not perfect, it has a few advantages.

1. The full version, which I have not tried seems to be able to load more than one plugin, so you can load a chain of plugins, and analyse the entire chain, while VST Analyzer restricts you to only one plugin. EDIT - correction - it only loads one plugin at a time - my bad...!

2. Support for 64 bit plugins so it has two analysers one for 32 bit and now also 64 bit, which is most welcome.


3. The Harmonic Distortion measurement tools on Plugindoc seem to provide a more accurate measure of these values. I had a few gain plugins, and VSTAnalyzer gave me an impression that one of these had a lower THD (i.e more accurate) but Plugindoc gives a different result - all the gain plugins were equivalent none was better than the other - so whatever I was hearing was placebo - influenced by what one of the developers had said about their plugin.

I am not saying Plugindoc is perfect as I do not have the skills to evaluate its accuracy, but it definitely gives one a fighting chance to get under the hood and validate some of the marketing - that influences us to buy or use plugins.

4. VSTAnalyzer no longer has any further development or support, while Plugindoc is still an ongoing project and we can expect to have bug fixes as required.


5. Plugindoc unlike VSTAnalyzer is able to handle Waves Waveshell - their mechanism for wrapping all their plugins in a single DLL. VSTAnalyzer cannot navigate this plugin presentation architecture so cannot analyze Waves plugins which is a shame.

6. PLugindoc like more modern VST hosts, can build a list of available plugins by scanning a list of VST and VST3 directories which you specify, as well as load a plugin from a specific .dll - similar to VSTAnalyzer - which is a bit of a tedious process - much better to select plugins from a pre-scanned list which survives through restarts of the Plugindoc tool.

Sure Plugin doc is not freeware, but is most likely cheaper than any single plugin most of us have bought - less than $20.... a pittance for the value it provides. Definitely worth buying and especially using it to check out demo versions of plugins you may wish to evaluate before purchase.


Fortunately plugindoc also has a non expiring demo with very few limitations, so I would strongly recommend plugindoc as the more suitable option for today..., not to add it has a more modern GUI and a few other features to long to list here....

[IIRs]

Plugin Doctor just loads one plug at a time. If you want to analyse a chain of plugs like I did you'll need his Metaplugin as well, or something similar.

[kodebode2]

Originally Posted by antti

You do realize that Q10 was literally the first third party audio plugin ever in history, on any platform?

Waves added decramping with Renaissance EQ which came out twenty years ago or so.

Not that I think either are particularly usable UI-wise but credit where credit is due.

Good to know - I'll analyse the renEQ, which thankfully is in their Gold bundle - the one I could afford!..

Nostalgia, in the good old days, the Waves plugins were out of reach, unless you were willing to take unethical risks. - thankfully it's much better now price wise + lots of frequent sales..making them even more affordable.

[kodebode2]

Originally Posted by IIRs

Plugin Doctor just loads one plug at a time. If you want to analyse a chain of plugs like I did you'll need his Metaplugin as well, or something similar.

Thanks for this correction. Appreciated. and your videos are the bees knees, out of this world - still taking it all in.

[kodebode2]

Originally Posted by antti

You do realize that Q10 was literally the first third party audio plugin ever in history, on any platform?

Waves added decramping with Renaissance EQ which came out twenty years ago or so.

Not that I think either are particularly usable UI-wise but credit where credit is due.

Spot on - RenEQ does the decramping. But the interface is weird and tiny, great sound, but only 6 bands.

Waves Q10, especially the revised one which came out about a year ago - celebrating their 25th anniversary (the only changes IIRC were the option of a more modern GUI, which I prefer), tends to be my go to, for surgical EQ, and pretty much the 1st EQ I think of to get a quick result, without having to think about band limitations(up to 10), with the new GUI, it replaced ReaEQ for most purposes.

The bandwidth approach to setting Q in ReaEQ, is a bit unusual. I also found some unusual behaviour in the low shelf or ReaEQ, many years back where there was a bug in the graphic presentation of EQ, which did not align with what VSTAnalyzer was showing me - made it a bit difficult to trust it implicitly - visually that is. Sadly we are influenced by sight and Waves Q10 is easier on the eye ( the new GUI option that is).

If there was one thing that a revised ReaEQ needs its the option to use standard Q settings...like we are used to in other eq plugins....

[JamesPeters]

Latest Reaper pre-release...

+ ReaComp: add pre-fader feedback detector mode

Take that Dan Worrall "with two Ls", if that is your real name!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvqJ1mTkEuY

[Bri1]

itz nyce beein abel to spel as wel. >(cough@ thread title)
maybe a plugin type doctor should already exist in reaper for measuring such stats-sigh-- old news is still not sounding:new.
cockos have made an attempt for people to inspect and analyse waveforms// inputs+outputs,but again,just falling a little shorter than some branded paid for competitions...technically+graphically,
with vst-cockos could have made this look anyway they wanted-and still can..right? vst?

people must also remember there is code wars- people want to retain certain idea "rights" to maintain a sellable product-
bit like mc'd's or another well known brand_giving away their most prided,closet kept 'trade secrets'.
meh.share if you care.

[kodebode2]

Originally Posted by Bri1

itz nyce beein abel to spel as wel. >(cough@ thread title)
maybe a plugin type doctor should already exist in reaper for measuring such stats-sigh-- old news is still not sounding:new.
cockos have made an attempt for people to inspect and analyse waveforms// inputs+outputs,but again,just falling a little shorter than some branded paid for competitions...technically+graphically,
with vst-cockos could have made this look anyway they wanted-and still can..right? vst?

people must also remember there is code wars- people want to retain certain idea "rights" to maintain a sellable product-
bit like mc'd's or another well known brand_giving away their most prided,closet kept 'trade secrets'.
meh.share if you care.

In the old days, there were relatively fewer different hardware units, and the operators either designed their own tools, modified acquired tools, or had a lot of information before they bought hardware processors for their studio, and could open up the damn things to see whats inside.

Now we have these black boxes with a lot of blurb - marketing, and our ears are the guinea pigs for these tests.

Earlier today, I reviewed an EQ, which it turned out was limiting output to +3 dB, an arbitrary hidden feature, a check or feature which is not needed in a Floating point audio plugin - DDMF Plugin Doctor made it easy for me to see that there was a harmonic anomaly on one of the bands(due to the this unexpected limiting beyond a certain level of gain). SO strange, I may have heard it but not as immediately as seeing it visually, which led me to dig into the readme to discover what was going on.

Definitely in-built analysis tools in DAW's will come, its logical, all the more advanced users are not going the extra mile to take a second look at each plugin, and visual analysis tools take us much farther than listening alone..... So Reaper will either lead or follow....only a matter of time...

Reaper includes an amazing wet/dry mix knob for every plugin, so things like analysis should ideally be "plugged" into the same level of plugin management, another globally available option for analyzing any loaded plugin.

[Cosmic]

Originally Posted by Glennbo

REAPER's Plugins look better in Linux too.

You're not joking that looks awesome!

Fuck this grey shit we got on windows

[Glennbo]

Originally Posted by Cosmic

You're not joking that looks awesome!

Fuck this grey shit we got on windows

A user here (I think it was Jack Winter) created a colortheme that follows the theme you have in Linux. I use a dark theme in Linux and REAPER for Linux follows it on pretty much all panels that would otherwise have the usual Windows grey theme look.

[X-Raym]

New features of ReaComp in v5.97, thx to this video !
+ add pre-fader feedback detector mode
+ deprecated non-fully-functional AA support, hidden when not used
+ improve ratio/attack/rms slider curves and display precision

[Not_Here]

Mr Worralls ( two L's) video should be required watching for all noobs (counting myself) not only did I learn about ReaComp, but I also got some invaluable training in Compressors and their function. Not to mention I have some very cool presets added in too.

[mawi]

I still don't agree with the new release slider curve. It's better than the old version, but I'd like to see more slider space in the 50-100 ms range. maybe 100 ms in the middle position? The range of 1000-5000 ms could be at the last 1/4 of the slider range, since this 1-5 s range is less important in detail. what do you think?

[skyshaver]

After watching that video I want to try Reacomp as a waveshaper after an FM synth

[earforce]

Originally Posted by mawi

I still don't agree with the new release slider curve. It's better than the old version, but I'd like to see more slider space in the 50-100 ms range. maybe 100 ms in the middle position? The range of 1000-5000 ms could be at the last 1/4 of the slider range, since this 1-5 s range is less important in detail. what do you think?

I agree totally