Old 04-01-2018, 01:28 PM   #1
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default Laptop for live use

Iím trying to substitute a windows device in place of the iPad in this type of setup
http://pipelineaudio.net/2018/01/30/...e-cable-setup/

The windows tablets I have found are very expensive for what you get, have few USB ports and generally run 2 core instead of 4 core i7íS. I see laptops that are cheap and powerful, but I have been searching and unable to find ways to hold them as conveniently as the tablets. Any ideas?
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 01:35 PM   #2
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

Checked out Lenovo Yoga?
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 01:57 PM   #3
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

Thereís a couple on Craigslist, but they are listed as two core and twice the price of a four core laptop of the same generation. The yoga looks like it would fit in the same tablet holder I have though.
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 03:23 PM   #4
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Wy do you want a laptop or tablet ?

I very happily use this -> https://www.mifcom.de/mini-pc-luefte...00t-ssd-id3047

With no Monitor/mouse/keyboard attached "on Stage".

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 04:26 PM   #5
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

For my stuff I definitely need a screen, but if a tablet maybe a pen would be ok instead of a mouse and keyboard. Thereís a nice 15 inch for sale cheap but it seems so big
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 05:10 PM   #6
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

I have a choice between this one

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo....145896.0.html

15" i7 4720HQ, which I think is much more powerful, though uses an older CPU, and I dont know how I'll fit it onto my FRFR rig

or this tablet, which would fit fine, seems newer but looks to be much less powerful

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron.../dp/B01KGFSQAE

Any idea if there would be a big difference in low latency audio between the two?
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 11:32 PM   #7
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Any idea if there would be a big difference in low latency audio between the two?
Stating the obvious for possible lurkers, just to be clear:
Latency is something you set in your configuration and not directly depending on the computer hardware. The value you can set without risking dropouts / crackles / overheating depends on the computer hardware and the software you use.

Overheating can be avoided either by using a solid state heat sink (impossible with laptaps, or by using a noisy fan (which I hate).

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de

Last edited by mschnell; 04-02-2018 at 12:45 AM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2018, 11:38 PM   #8
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,770
Default

Even if a tablet sported a powerful i7 CPU it would be constantly throttled down so that enclosed tablet didn't melt! You'll be very limited by a tablet.

Heck, my experience even with very high end laptops is that you still want to go over the heatsink assembly yourself for top performance.

Especially if you are doing live performance requiring low latency and want any headroom. You'll have an awful time with a heat throttling tablet.

Some of the portable stuff has come a long way and a tablet might do a lot of things. If you were just playing an iTunes playlist and making "DJ motions" no one would be the wiser. But actual performance? Get a laptop.

Or... It's a little more setup but a tower is more industrial that a laptop for on stage. A hurled beer bottle might put a slight scratch in the side of an old G5 tower whereas it would be a complete end of life event for a laptop.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 12:00 AM   #9
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

Throttling can be disabled.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download...-throttlestop/

Quote:
Originally Posted by serr View Post
Or... It's a little more setup but a tower is more industrial that a laptop for on stage. A hurled beer bottle might put a slight scratch in the side of an old G5 tower whereas it would be a complete end of life event for a laptop.
Nope, some laptops are sturdier than you might think. Not in the Mac realm, though.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 12:05 AM   #10
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

I never had trouble live with a windows laptop since 2008

But Iím asking a bit more from this than I ever did before, actusometh8ng that gets my older desktop to about 11% cpu, and just on the edge of rt longest block size
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 12:36 AM   #11
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

Has anyone actually seen any pages or videos of people running windows tablets live with guitars? Is the dell I linked like a tablet or laptop more?

It fits easily in my tablet holder on my amp, while I would need some other solution for the 15Ē laptop I linked
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 12:46 AM   #12
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Does it have a fan ?

Yes (more like a laptop): Noisy.
No (more loke a tablet) : Overheating danger.

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 12:53 AM   #13
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

Noisy fan is not really an important factor in a live setting...
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 01:12 AM   #14
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

When I am practicing live playing just for myself in my tiny studio, yet it is. OK I could use headphones, but this is not always real fun.

Moreover the fan is the most likely breaking part of a PC. That is why I'd avoid it "on stage".

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 01:34 AM   #15
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

Fans are usually very sturdy, though. I haven't had a fan fail on me ever in 20 years of using various kinds of computers.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 02:00 AM   #16
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

Looks like it has a fan.

The other computer is much more powerful though, I just canít think of as handy a way to stick it in my FRFR setup as the tablet would. Itís too big to fit in that tablet arm mount holder thing. I see a few that may work, but not as convenient.

Decisions decisions
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 08:18 AM   #17
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Fans are usually very sturdy, though. I haven't had a fan fail on me ever in 20 years of using various kinds of computers.
Towers? Me either.
I went through 3 sets of fans on my last Macbook Pro. Much cheaper than logic boards and easy to swap out. Go ahead and abuse the fans in a laptop and treat them as a consumable.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 09:24 AM   #18
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

MBP, eh.

My Toshiba laptop is in its 8th year, never a single problem with its fan. Ever.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 09:39 AM   #19
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Fans are usually very sturdy, though. I haven't had a fan fail on me ever in 20 years of using various kinds of computers.
Speak for yourself I have had a few fail. 2 in PSUs and 1 in the case and 1 on a video card, maybe more.

Wait: Laptops, no fan problems there.

Last edited by karbomusic; 04-02-2018 at 11:55 AM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 11:51 AM   #20
serr
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,770
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
MBP, eh.

My Toshiba laptop is in its 8th year, never a single problem with its fan. Ever.
Yeah, it's a "consumable" on these machines. I like everything else and the rest of the machine runs forever if you keep it cool. No argument they lose a few points for the fans here though.

Hmmm... I should start modding the fans on these.
serr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 12:44 PM   #21
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

Acco ding to the benchmarking sites, both oth these units should smoke the device I was testing on

I was using an hp laptop with an i5 2430m which is a 2 core sandy bridge at 2.4ghz with 4 gigs of ram

The dell 2 in 1 Iím looking at has an i7 6500u, which is a 2 core skylake at 2.5ghz with 8 gigs of ram

The Lenovo laptop Iím looking at is an i7 4720hq which is a 4 core haswell at 2.6ghz with 8 gigs of ram

Both of these units have ssds

The Lenovo seems to smoke the dell in every single way, but while the dell fits in my tablet holder on my FRFR setup, I have no idea how I would mount the laptop as conveniently on my alto ts210

Aside from the size issue and somehow we come up with an idea to mount the 15Ē: is there any reason I should pick the slower dell that Iím not thinking of? Maybe itís newer architecture does something I want? The Lenovo is a gaming laptop with an nvidia gtx 960, so Iím assuming itís more optimized for performance. The dell can fold into a touchscreen tablet for convenience, but if I can figure an easy way to mount the laptop, Iíd rather have the trackpad anyway
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 01:28 PM   #22
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Speak for yourself I have had a few fail. 2 in PSUs and 1 in the case and 1 on a video card, maybe more.
So I would not use it on stage, if I can avoid it.

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 01:31 PM   #23
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
So I would not use it on stage, if I can avoid it.

-Michael
Not sure what the point is since those are desktops, I have a single-core laptop from 2001 who's fan works fine and I can still track with it. So that's 17 years of fan not going bad. If you are holding on to the fan as a point of failure to be concerned about, I'd say that's quite unfounded.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 02:01 PM   #24
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

Blowing my mind with how big the marketing claims about laptop guitar are and how much money is spent hyping it, its very hard for me to find pictures or videos of setups. The keyboard guys have them all day long, and its easy to see how they integrate them, but not so much for guitar
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 02:09 PM   #25
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

That's because a LOT of guitar guys just solve their problems either with a Kemper or an Axe FX. Or a Helix, more recently.
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 02:27 PM   #26
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

None of those companies are spending crazy money on facebook ads for laptop guitar use though, they have an in the box, turnkey thing they are advertising
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 09:41 PM   #27
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Not sure what the point is since those are desktops
I don't see why laptop fans should be inherently better than others. On the contrary, they are smaller and need to turn faster so they are more due to deterioration. Just statistics.

Of course (similar to hard drives) there are industrial grade fans that cost more and will last longer, but not to be found in usual consumer equipment.

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 09:48 PM   #28
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
That's because a LOT of guitar guys just solve their problems either with a Kemper or an Axe FX. Or a Helix, more recently.
Maybe in the average, keyboard guys are more technically orientated.

Keyboard and some guitar guys used to use Receptor, but same seems not to be available any more.

That is why - using Reaper - I built a similarly "embedded" device for myself.

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de

Last edited by mschnell; 04-02-2018 at 09:56 PM.
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 10:50 PM   #29
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
I don't see why laptop fans should be inherently better than others. On the contrary, they are smaller and need to turn faster so they are more due to deterioration. Just statistics.


-Michael
There are a plethora of laptops out there audio wise not failing because of fans. It's an issue not worth wasting time over unless it for killing time in an audio forum. My desktop with fan issues ran *24/7* in a very hot machine for *years* before the fan failed, so it's not even comparable to a laptop running at gigs, practice and so on.

Last edited by karbomusic; 04-03-2018 at 01:03 AM.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2018, 10:58 PM   #30
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 23,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Maybe in the average, keyboard guys are more technically orientated.
All keyboard players are more technically oriented than all guitar players, second only to drummers.
karbomusic is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 12:55 AM   #31
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

well crap, a friend of a friend had a smoking deal on a monster of a laptop
i7 6700HQ, 24gigs of ram, SSD, with an nvidia 970GT

But its a $#^#&^$& 17 inch! I thought the 15" was going to be hard to place, but damn this thing is insane, my FRFR speaker barely makes 24".

Lets put our engineering heads together and come up with something.

I was thinking some hinges and rails from the hardware store might make a handy flip up support. I don't know

For live use on a laptop, I dont need wifi but I need my usb ports. What exactly does airplane mode do?
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 09:55 PM   #32
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

I'm thinking of putting all the goodies in a laptop bag, then running a power cable and a 1/4" to the FRFR speaker
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 11:29 PM   #33
mschnell
Human being with feelings
 
mschnell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 6,974
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
well crap, a friend of a friend had a smoking deal on a monster of a laptop
Fan failure and getting so hot that it emitted smoke ?!?!? Monstrous indeed !

Poor guy.

(AFAIK "airplian mode" temporarily deactivates wireless transmitters to comply with restrictions imposed to air travelers. )

-Michael
__________________
www.boa-sorte.de
mschnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2018, 11:53 PM   #34
EvilDragon
Human being with feelings
 
EvilDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 22,835
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
Lets put our engineering heads together and come up with something.

I was thinking some hinges and rails from the hardware store might make a handy flip up support. I don't know
MacGyver in me says: velcro!
EvilDragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 12:23 AM   #35
g4greg
Human being with feelings
 
g4greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post

I was thinking some hinges and rails from the hardware store might make a handy flip up support. I don't know

For live use on a laptop, I dont need wifi but I need my usb ports. What exactly does airplane mode do?

Does this help you in any way? Some of the stuff in there is pretty cheap and neat

I especially like the LPT 6000.. You could just clip that on your existing gear.

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1110--Laptop_Stands
__________________
Vocals for hire from 10$! From pop to metal, and everything in between .
https://www.fiverr.com/gregemond/be-...ger-songwriter
g4greg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 01:14 AM   #36
pipelineaudio
Mortal
 
pipelineaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 12,981
Default

All good ideas! I thought I set the record for velcro with that ipad setup, but hey, its cheap!

I got a laptop bag on order I'll see if that type of thinking works as well
__________________
REAPER Shirts are Back! - https://shop.spreadshirt.com/pipelineaudio/
pipelineaudio is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2018, 05:14 PM   #37
Stews
Human being with feelings
 
Stews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,270
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
That's because a LOT of guitar guys just solve their problems either with a Kemper or an Axe FX. Or a Helix, more recently.
Or an Amplifire
Stews is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.