Old 10-13-2017, 12:26 PM   #1
Baggage
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Default More ReaInsert madness (SOLVED)

I'm still struggling with my ReaInsert plugin with my outboard gear. So I've attached some screen shots in the hopes someone can help me figure out my problem.

I kept the recording as simple as possible by recording only one track mono. As you can see in the screen shot I'm sending from out put 2 and returning input 4. Reported latency 1787 & additional delay comp -589 after Ping detection. What am I to do with these numbers?

In recording settings window (screenshot) there are 4 boxes in the lower right: Which boxes do I plug these #s into? I've tried all of them and still getting an echo type delay. Very frustrated at this point. Why is there not a detailed video tutorial on this forum for Reainsert. I've found two vids on youtube but they do not discuss the meaning of the ping #s and how to deal with them.

Also, should the return volume be the same as the send volume. When I turn up the return volume I get more delay. When I turn it down I can't hear the fx from my outboard gear. Can anyone help?
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:26 PM   #2
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Try out on 2 and in from 2 change your cable of course you only need to change one of them
I only use Reaper insert by recording the effect on to a new wave file. Then I put insert on standby and I have no worries with delay.

Grinder

Last edited by grinder; 10-13-2017 at 01:29 PM. Reason: extra info
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:17 PM   #3
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Try out on 2 and in from 2 change your cable of course you only need to change one of them
I only use Reaper insert by recording the effect on to a new wave file. Then I put insert on standby and I have no worries with delay.

Grinder
Thanks for the reply. I see what your saying about changing the cable and I'll give that a shot, but I'm not sure what you mean when you say to put insert on standby. Could you clarify?
Thanks again.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:55 PM   #4
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Reported latency 1787 & additional delay comp -589 after Ping detection. What am I to do with these numbers?
Nothing really. The plugin does it for you.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:25 PM   #5
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Standby just a term I would use for the little button by the FX on the head of your track this will go from green to red when you mouse click it, it takes all the plugins on that particular track out of the wave path.
If you mouse click FX as you know you can take individual FX but keep them as in the button bit if you just untick their boxes.
When you are passing your wave file through the Reainsert are you sending your signal through another track with Reainsert on it and recording on that track.
You will use "Record Output" this gives you options when you right click over the record button on the head of the track.
If you do this once you have recorded your file to that track go to FX and untick the box for Reainsert and play back. Or if you have only Reainsert on that track just rt click that little button make it turn red and that will take the FX out and Reainsert out of the signal.
Something like this may work.
You may know all this so please forgive me if you do.

Grinder
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
Standby just a term I would use for the little button by the FX on the head of your track this will go from green to red when you mouse click it, it takes all the plugins on that particular track out of the wave path.
If you mouse click FX as you know you can take individual FX but keep them as in the button bit if you just untick their boxes.
When you are passing your wave file through the Reainsert are you sending your signal through another track with Reainsert on it and recording on that track.
You will use "Record Output" this gives you options when you right click over the record button on the head of the track.
If you do this once you have recorded your file to that track go to FX and untick the box for Reainsert and play back. Or if you have only Reainsert on that track just rt click that little button make it turn red and that will take the FX out and Reainsert out of the signal.
Something like this may work.
You may know all this so please forgive me if you do.

Grinder
I'm sending the recorded take to another track with the reinsert plug on it. I just watched a tutorial on printing FX and I'm trying to do it like that but with a reinsert and outboard gear. The problem I found doing that is that when I mute the original track it also mutes the track I'm sending it to and I can't figure out how to hear it just through the FX track. Because of this I don't know if it's a reinsert problem or a routing problem. When I'm doing it this way how should each track be set up in routing? Maybe this will solve the issue.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:20 PM   #7
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Send the track pre-fader to the reainsert track. Then turn down the volume fader on the sending track (instead of muting).
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:44 PM   #8
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Send the track pre-fader to the reainsert track. Then turn down the volume fader on the sending track (instead of muting).
Thanks Dstruct. I will try that.
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:49 PM   #9
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There is a square up on the top left of your "1n and out" box the black and white button at the start of your track when you rt click this you will see the square box as this has "Master Send" in it you can tick or untick the box. Unticked the signal from this track will go to your other track but not go to the Master out thus you will only hear the reainsert file.
Hope that helps

Grinder
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Old 10-13-2017, 06:58 PM   #10
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There is a square up on the top left of your "1n and out" box the black and white button at the start of your track when you rt click this you will see the square box as this has "Master Send" in it you can tick or untick the box. Unticked the signal from this track will go to your other track but not go to the Master out thus you will only hear the reainsert file.
Hope that helps

Grinder
Thanks Grinder I will try this as well!
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:45 AM   #11
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You will use "Record Output" this gives you options when you right click over the record button on the head of the track.
If you do this once you have recorded your file to that track go to FX and untick the box for Reainsert and play back. Grinder
Sorry, just another question here. I assume I use "record output" on the receiving track, correct?
Or do I use it on both the sending and receiving track?

Thanks again!
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:32 AM   #12
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Send the track pre-fader to the reainsert track. Then turn down the volume fader on the sending track (instead of muting).
I've tried this but still no luck. Here is some more information and screen grabs if it helps. I'm routing from track 2 to track 7. My hardware outs on my RME are output 4 to my eq and output 7 & 8 to my monitors.

As you can see in the track 2 routing box screen grab I have the "send to track 7" in Pre-fader and turned down. Master send is unchecked. In my "Audio Hardware Outputs" window, I have output 7 & 8 in post-fader and turned down. Output 2 is in Post-Fader and left turned up.

In my routing box for Track 7 (the receiving track) Audio outputs 7 & 8 (monitors) the volume is left up and in post-fader. Still no sound.

So now could it be a "total-mix/RME issue"?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Reinsert.pdf (52.1 KB, 260 views)
File Type: pdf routingtrack2.pdf (61.7 KB, 162 views)
File Type: pdf routingtrack_7.pdf (50.5 KB, 131 views)

Last edited by Baggage; 10-14-2017 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:11 PM   #13
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So now could it be a "total-mix/RME issue"?
Might be. Is the ping detect working in ReaInsert?
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:21 PM   #14
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Might be. Is the ping detect working in ReaInsert?
It seems to be working, but i don't really understand what to do with the readings. I have been given different instructions. Some have recommended I uncheck the automatic device latency and feed in the readings, but there are 4 boxes to feed into so I'm not sure which to use. Others have stated reinsert takes care of everything automatically.

What I'm trying to get now is a "Return Volume" level in the Reainsert window. Not getting anything but the send volume.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:41 PM   #15
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Here is a link to a fantastic way of setting up reinsert Baggage
From a great Reaperite
Enough in this dialogue to set you up just usi9ng the one track!

ReaInsert is your new best friend. (There are other ways to accomplish this, I think, with the flexible routing, but I've found this one to be the easiest)

1. Take your dry vocal track and place an instance of ReaInsert (plugin)
2. In ReaInsert, you now need to setup a few things:
-Hardware Sends:
Left/Right (set to the hardware output you will be using to send the audio to your external processor)
-Hardware Returns:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=40196

Left/Right (set to the hardware input you will be using to return the audio to your interface)
You can adjust the gain to and from (Send vol. and Return vol.). (previous adjust send volume and return volume means of course on the Reainsert) There are also settings with Delay compensation (which I've never played with as I do my hardware renders offline), which someone else could probably walk you through.

When you're done, save yourself a preset and keep reusing the same patch channels every time. Then all you have to do is bring up ReaInsert and load the preset.

In reality, you do indeed have to use an Online render in order for the hardware effect to be processed. When I use the term 'Offline' as I did above, what I really mean is that I am processing my stems one by one (as opposed to running my external processing on a track in the overall mix while I'm mixing). So my process would look something like this:


Good luck

Grinder
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Old 10-14-2017, 06:44 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grinder View Post
Here is a link to a fantastic way of setting up reinsert Baggage
From a great Reaperite
Enough in this dialogue to set you up just usi9ng the one track!

ReaInsert is your new best friend. (There are other ways to accomplish this, I think, with the flexible routing, but I've found this one to be the easiest)

1. Take your dry vocal track and place an instance of ReaInsert (plugin)
2. In ReaInsert, you now need to setup a few things:
-Hardware Sends:
Left/Right (set to the hardware output you will be using to send the audio to your external processor)
-Hardware Returns:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=40196

Left/Right (set to the hardware input you will be using to return the audio to your interface)
You can adjust the gain to and from (Send vol. and Return vol.). (previous adjust send volume and return volume means of course on the Reainsert) There are also settings with Delay compensation (which I've never played with as I do my hardware renders offline), which someone else could probably walk you through.

When you're done, save yourself a preset and keep reusing the same patch channels every time. Then all you have to do is bring up ReaInsert and load the preset.

In reality, you do indeed have to use an Online render in order for the hardware effect to be processed. When I use the term 'Offline' as I did above, what I really mean is that I am processing my stems one by one (as opposed to running my external processing on a track in the overall mix while I'm mixing). So my process would look something like this:


Good luck

Grinder
I appreciate this. It seems I've gotten a little closer, but now I'm getting heavy feed back from my hardware connection, especially when i put it in bypass mode. Any Idea anyone?
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:41 PM   #17
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My apologies for beating this carcass but I'm away from my DAW and thinking, could it be the project i'm working within has a bug or would it have to be the entire DAW? I'm hoping I could open a new project and my problems will go away.

Does anyone have any insight on this? I'm away from my work station until tomorrow so I thought I would post to see if this is a possibility.
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Old 10-14-2017, 08:58 PM   #18
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Okay I had a look at your reinsert pdf
I would say your Reaper has not been set up to do this yet

Your in and outs are not there to my mind
You need to go to Options, Preferences, audio
If your setup is good you should see options
Your tracks out and in should show something like this
If you are using channels 7+8

out Trk 7 (O) Trk 8 (O)

In Trk 7 (I) Trk 8 (O)

I am not at my audio computer and will not be here for a couple of days.
The way your setup is it will not work the right way.
You need those (O) and (I)to be showing in your preferences
Then your setup will be working and will not be feeding back
Your cables too and from your hardware need to be the outs of your fireface to the in's on your outboard gear and from the "outs on the hardware to the 'In's" on the
Fireface. From memory you have 8 channels of audio in's and outs on the fireface.
I see more channels on one of the pdf's.

You have different terminology you just do not have the O and the I is my guess
Where you set up add new hardware set up 7-8 to send and 7-8 to receive
if you have 7 in-8 in and 7-out-8 out set up with cables to and from track two this should work but I am assuming this should show up as available as in the paragraph above all this in preferences.
These should be in preferences have a good look there there should be a way for Reaper to recognize the channels it looks like it may from the choices you do have. All the channels you have should be there, in and out.
Hope this helps
Keep at it

Grinder
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Old 10-14-2017, 09:17 PM   #19
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Okay I had a look at your reinsert pdf
I would say your Reaper has not been set up to do this yet

Your in and outs are not there to my mind
You need to go to Options, Preferences, audio
If your setup is good you should see options
Your tracks out and in should show something like this
If you are using channels 7+8

out Trk 7 (O) Trk 8 (O)

In Trk 7 (I) Trk 8 (O)

I am not at my audio computer and will not be here for a couple of days.
The way your setup is it will not work the right way.
You need those (O) and (I)to be showing in your preferences
Then your setup will be working and will not be feeding back
Your cables too and from your hardware need to be the outs of your fireface to the in's on your outboard gear and from the "outs on the hardware to the 'In's" on the
Fireface. From memory you have 8 channels of audio in's and outs on the fireface.
I see more channels on one of the pdf's.

You have different terminology you just do not have the O and the I is my guess
Where you set up add new hardware set up 7-8 to send and 7-8 to receive
if you have 7 in-8 in and 7-out-8 out set up with cables to and from track two this should work but I am assuming this should show up as available as in the paragraph above all this in preferences.
These should be in preferences have a good look there there should be a way for Reaper to recognize the channels it looks like it may from the choices you do have. All the channels you have should be there, in and out.
Hope this helps
Keep at it

Grinder
This is great info and probably the root of my problem. I will give this a shot first thing in the morning.
Thanks again!
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:38 PM   #20
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Baggage I am away for three days so don't think I am avoiding the problem.
Catch you down the track.

Grinder
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:13 AM   #21
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Baggage I am away for three days so don't think I am avoiding the problem.
Catch you down the track.

Grinder
No worries. Thanks for the insight. In the mean time I did this (if this is what you are referring to)
Attached Images
File Type: png input.png (37.9 KB, 233 views)
File Type: png output.png (57.0 KB, 203 views)
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:46 AM   #22
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That looks right
Make yourself a new track put your audio track with wave file on it untick the go to master box pointy it to another new track next to the other one put the Reainsert on it select the in and outs use the volumes on your hardware etc (dry and wet if you have them ) push the record button on the reainsert track and you should be good to go. That is how I do it.
I have to go big travel 4 something in the morning good luck

Grinder
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Old 10-15-2017, 09:25 AM   #23
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That looks right
Make yourself a new track put your audio track with wave file on it untick the go to master box pointy it to another new track next to the other one put the Reainsert on it select the in and outs use the volumes on your hardware etc (dry and wet if you have them ) push the record button on the reainsert track and you should be good to go. That is how I do it.
I have to go big travel 4 something in the morning good luck

Grinder
It's working! Thank you and Safe travels!
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Old 10-18-2017, 11:04 AM   #24
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Fantastic news Baggage,
Enjoy yourself.

Grinder
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:20 AM   #25
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Fantastic news Baggage,
Enjoy yourself.

Grinder
Thanks! What I don't get is why the "naming inputs and outputs" tutorial doesn't mention this.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:35 AM   #26
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There is so much in Reaper that it scares me Baggage so I try to just take in a little bit at a time.
I know what you mean many manuals re software are written by computer geeks I have been told they think in a different way than say your normal artist (we think all over the place) evidently.
The Reaper manual is one of the best there is however sometimes it would be kind to us to just write out a process scenario. All the moves needed to do a job. I reckon this would simplify things for other's.

Grinder
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Old 10-19-2017, 01:13 PM   #27
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There is so much in Reaper that it scares me Baggage so I try to just take in a little bit at a time.
I know what you mean many manuals re software are written by computer geeks I have been told they think in a different way than say your normal artist (we think all over the place) evidently.
The Reaper manual is one of the best there is however sometimes it would be kind to us to just write out a process scenario. All the moves needed to do a job. I reckon this would simplify things for other's.

Grinder
I just downloaded the manual which I didn't know existed, doh! But your help in figuring this out is very much appreciated. It has opened up quite a few doors for me in Reaper. Thanks again!
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Old 07-24-2021, 06:31 AM   #28
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It's working! Thank you and Safe travels!
A bit of thread necromancy here:

As Grinder explained this process, it does not work for me. Simply record enabling the ReaInsert track and pressing the record button produces a blank recording. That is because the default mode is Record:input (audio or midi). I assume the difference over the last 4 years is accounted by the differences in Reaper versions.

To make this work on my system, I do not have the original audio Master Send turned off. I record enable the effects track that contains ReaInsert. I then change the record mode to Record: Output (stereo, latency compensated). Or use mono, depending on the circumstances.

Works great. And always hit Ping detect to keep things lined up. This doesn’t work perfectly either. My effects seem to come a little ahead of the audio and I need to slide the effects audio a bit to line this up correctly. Reaper seems to over compensate for the latency. Usually, it’s inaudible.
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