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Old 12-02-2020, 12:14 PM   #241
J Riley Hill
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The difference is how the files are presented and organized.

Playlists are alternate versions of the entire content of one "track" accessed by a dropdown menu on each track.

Takes in reaper are alternate versions of just individual media "items".


For my workflow the main benefit is, I can do a bunch of edits on a track and copy that "playlist" to a new one. So all those edits go to a hidden alternate version of the track which is accessible from key commands or a drop down menu on the track.

Once I've copied to a new playlist I can consolidate (glue) all the edits on the new playlist and it will be one clean edited file with no split marks or anything HOWEVER I can still toggle back to the old playlist if needed and all the edits will be there. There is no limit to the number of playlists, so you can keep doing this if necessary and store different iterations.

In contrast with Reaper if you glue edits to one media item, you lose the old edits and just get a new media item.

For one track at a time you can pretty easily copy the playlist method by just copying to a new track and hiding it, slightly messier but it works. The thing where playlists REALLLY shine is multi track editing, because you can link tracks to change playlists together, and consolidate files together.

Basically, like has been said before, it's a way of saving the "history" of edits and it makes it really easy to iterate on ideas and combine different versions of tracks.

EDIT:
This post may come off as meaning "we need one or the other" There is no reason we couldn't have both systems in Reaper, and I think that is what most people (including myself) would prefer.

Last edited by J Riley Hill; 12-04-2020 at 03:40 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 12-02-2020, 07:28 PM   #242
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Originally Posted by J Riley Hill View Post
The difference is how the files are presented and organized.

Playlists are alternate versions of the entire content of one "track" accessed by a dropdown menu on each track.

Takes in reaper are alternate versions of just individual media "items".


For my workflow the main benefit is, I can do a bunch of edits on a track and copy that "playlist" to a new one. So all those edits go to a hidden alternate version of the track which is accessible from key commands or a drop down menu on the track.

Once I've copied to a new playlist I can consolidate (glue) all the edits on the new playlist and it will be one clean edited file with no split marks or anything HOWEVER I can still toggle back to the old playlist if needed and all the edits will be there. There is no limit to the number of playlists, so you can keep doing this if necessary and store different iterations.

In contrast with Reaper if you glue edits to one media item, you lose the old edits and just get a new media item.

For one track at a time you can pretty easily copy the playlist method by just copying to a new track and hiding it, slightly messier but it works. The thing where playlists REALLLY shine is multi track editing, because you can link tracks to change playlists together, and consolidate files together.

Basically, like has been said before, it's a way of saving the "history" of edits and it makes it really easy to iterate on ideas and combine different versions of tracks.
Thanks a lot for a detailed description!! Have a nice day
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Old 12-04-2020, 12:31 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by J Riley Hill View Post
The difference is how the files are presented and organized.

Playlists are alternate versions of the entire content of one "track" accessed by a dropdown menu on each track.

Takes in reaper are alternate versions of just individual media "items".


For my workflow the main benefit is, I can do a bunch of edits on a track and copy that "playlist" to a new one. So all those edits go to a hidden alternate version of the track which is accessible from key commands or a drop down menu on the track.

Once I've copied to a new playlist I can consolidate (glue) all the edits on the new playlist and it will be one clean edited file with no split marks or anything HOWEVER I can still toggle back to the old playlist if needed and all the edits will be there. There is no limit to the number of playlists, so you can keep doing this if necessary and store different iterations.

In contrast with Reaper if you glue edits to one media item, you lose the old edits and just get a new media item.

For one track at a time you can pretty easily copy the playlist method by just copying to a new track and hiding it, slightly messier but it works. The thing where playlists REALLLY shine is multi track editing, because you can link tracks to change playlists together, and consolidate files together.

Basically, like has been said before, it's a way of saving the "history" of edits and it makes it really easy to iterate on ideas and combine different versions of tracks.
Yeah. I'm sure I said it earlier somewhere but playlists or track layers shouldn't be considered an alternative to takes.

In REAPER, you can add effects to tracks or to items (takes). This could be the same thing. You could still be able to have multiple takes for each item while still having multiple playlists or track layers on each track. They can work together. Or separate. But one doesn't replace the other.
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Old 12-04-2020, 06:26 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Yeah. I'm sure I said it earlier somewhere but playlists or track layers shouldn't be considered an alternative to takes.

In REAPER, you can add effects to tracks or to items (takes). This could be the same thing. You could still be able to have multiple takes for each item while still having multiple playlists or track layers on each track. They can work together. Or separate. But one doesn't replace the other.
I don't think anyone wants the take system to be abolished. That wouldn't make sense for the people that actually want to use them.

Adding playlists would just be a way for those of us who don't want to use them to circumvent them and record each pass in a playlist instead. I'm doing this already right now (recording each pass to a separate track), but without the benefit of a playlist feature. So leaving takes as they stand now wouldn't affect me in the slightest.
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Old 12-04-2020, 09:31 AM   #245
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I don't think anyone wants the take system to be abolished. That wouldn't make sense for the people that actually want to use them.

Adding playlists would just be a way for those of us who don't want to use them to circumvent them and record each pass in a playlist instead. I'm doing this already right now (recording each pass to a separate track), but without the benefit of a playlist feature. So leaving takes as they stand now wouldn't affect me in the slightest.
I agree 100% with valy!
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Old 12-04-2020, 09:47 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post

In REAPER, you can add effects to tracks or to items (takes).

Hi Kenny! I love using FX on items, but I don't see items and takes as the same thing. Those damn splits just drive me crazy. What I like about a playlist feature would be the ability to have multiple takes that don't have autosplits.... if I need to make a split, I'll do it myself.
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Old 12-04-2020, 02:25 PM   #247
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Hi Kenny! I love using FX on items, but I don't see items and takes as the same thing. Those damn splits just drive me crazy. What I like about a playlist feature would be the ability to have multiple takes that don't have autosplits.... if I need to make a split, I'll do it myself.
When you learn to take advantage of the time selection punches and punch on selected items things can get a bit easier. The actual lane system is functional, just not as functional as in other daws for comping, creating a clean take for the comp etc.

The trick is to G and U (group / ungroup) track and punch on time selection and on selected media items ( this can be achieved by right clicking the rec button.

By this i dont really mean we should not have a refresh on the actual system and improve it. That´s my tought for now.
I believe in the cockos team, they always listen the community. This feature is a long time waited one..so..it will come , i guess
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Old 12-04-2020, 03:38 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by Kenny Gioia View Post
Yeah. I'm sure I said it earlier somewhere but playlists or track layers shouldn't be considered an alternative to takes.

In REAPER, you can add effects to tracks or to items (takes). This could be the same thing. You could still be able to have multiple takes for each item while still having multiple playlists or track layers on each track. They can work together. Or separate. But one doesn't replace the other.
Thanks for the clarification Kenny, I guess my post could be read as you can have "one or the other" I was more just trying to compare the pro tools approach to the Reaper approach.

For the record, I agree! and I want both too
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Old 12-04-2020, 09:44 PM   #249
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When you learn to take advantage of the time selection punches and punch on selected items things can get a bit easier. The actual lane system is functional, just not as functional as in other daws for comping, creating a clean take for the comp etc.

Yes, I'm comfortable using it. I use it every day in two different studios. I just don't like it.
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Old 12-05-2020, 03:11 PM   #250
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Yes, I'm comfortable using it. I use it every day in two different studios. I just don't like it.
I feel you eheh!
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:40 AM   #251
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Another useful feature by having a playlist pro tools alike is to have the oppurtinity to duplicate items in the same track, by doing this you can for example nudge a track or change the gain value without mess with the original item.

Right now it's possible to duplicate an items in Reaper but all the takes are in a way linked together, for me this is just useless.

Maybe all this is going to happen in 2021?
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:53 AM   #252
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A track playlisting feature would solve several problems I'm having switching over from Logic (which doesn't even have playlisting).

1) Doing away with auto-splitting takes based on other takes' punch ins and outs (what if I want to punch in the Chorus, I just have to accept it's going to force me to drag out all the other complete take lanes?? This micro nuisance is the opposite of why I switched to Reaper)
2) Giving a safety net for comping/editing by preserving the original recorded take hiearchy (even if it's messy with all the splits, it's at least salvageable with a bunch of drags...which admittedly feels very 2005)

+1
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Old 01-05-2021, 10:58 AM   #253
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1) Doing away with auto-splitting takes based on other takes' punch ins and outs (what if I want to punch in the Chorus, I just have to accept it's going to force me to drag out all the other complete take lanes?? This micro nuisance is the opposite of why I switched to Reaper)
I think the playlist idea is good but you don't have to drag those out. There are times editing wise I might drag one for some other reason but I've punched in choruses for 10 years now and the splits don't make any difference in my final result.
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Old 01-05-2021, 05:12 PM   #254
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A track playlisting feature would solve several problems I'm having switching over from Logic (which doesn't even have playlisting).

1) Doing away with auto-splitting takes based on other takes' punch ins and outs (what if I want to punch in the Chorus, I just have to accept it's going to force me to drag out all the other complete take lanes?? This micro nuisance is the opposite of why I switched to Reaper)
2) Giving a safety net for comping/editing by preserving the original recorded take hiearchy (even if it's messy with all the splits, it's at least salvageable with a bunch of drags...which admittedly feels very 2005)

+1
Logic does have playlists. It’s called track alternatives.
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Old 01-06-2021, 12:28 PM   #255
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Why hasn´t any of the devs come here and say " we are not thinking about that" or "maybe we can have a try on it" or "Guys/Giirls, after the Area Selection / Razor edit we will dig into the playlist thing" ?
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Old 01-06-2021, 12:57 PM   #256
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Why hasn´t any of the devs come here and say " we are not thinking about that" or "maybe we can have a try on it" or "Guys/Giirls, after the Area Selection / Razor edit we will dig into the playlist thing" ?
Yes, I'd also like to know if I dig into PT or Sequoia for tracking. I still have hope but a clear announcement would definitly help...
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:59 PM   #257
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Yes, I'd also like to know if I dig into PT or Sequoia for tracking. I still have hope but a clear announcement would definitly help...

There's never a clear announcement until you see work in the pre-releases.
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Old 01-07-2021, 06:02 AM   #258
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There's never a clear announcement until you see work in the pre-releases.
Not true, the work on ARA was announced in a thread.
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:50 AM   #259
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There is something that would help us all for now, mainly the new comers to reaper.
A Project setting to automatically group tracks after multitrack. This would be a great deal for the present lane system. Would make it easier for people that record multiple tracks ( Drums, guitars, etc) to have media items grouped by default for fast take comping.
This one is easy hein cockos ?
Took this idea from samplitude. Reaper shares a lot from samplitude / sequoia in some things.
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Old 01-09-2021, 07:49 PM   #260
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Default Toggle auto group newly recorded items

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A Project setting to automatically group tracks after multitrack.


A SWS-Action to automatically group tracks after multitrack-recording:

SWS/AW: Toggle auto group newly recorded items



It works perfectly over here.

EDIT: I assigned a button to it.

Last edited by OLSHALOM; 01-09-2021 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 01-10-2021, 02:52 AM   #261
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A SWS-Action to automatically group tracks after multitrack-recording:

SWS/AW: Toggle auto group newly recorded items



It works perfectly over here.

EDIT: I assigned a button to it.
Great
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:14 AM   #262
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Hey all,

I'm another PT user who dreams of switching to Reaper, but this issue keeps preventing me from taking the plunge. I check back every year or so to see if there's a solution, but it seems like it's still simmering unresolved.

The main things for me are:
- I am constantly recording things that use multiple mics. Drums, yes, but also vocals with more than one mic, synths with a hardware reverb send, piano with close mics and room mics, sound fx from multiple distances, etc etc. Every time I look in to recording multiple tracks and keeping comp choices synced I find posts with what feel like work arounds...how are people doing this?
- When I'm comping I always need to move different takes horizontally, independent of each other. Maybe it's a vocal and one phrase is great but i'd like to hear it nudged a little earlier. Maybe I want to grab a high note from the second chorus and try it in the first chorus. etc. The fact that the reaper take system glues all the audio vertically is such a head scratcher for me...do most users just not move audio horizontally when they're editing? Is there an easy solution for this?

I think what's so consistently confusing for me is that Reaper is clearly a platform that is constantly evolving to make all the dreams of it's users come true, and there are about a thousand amazing things that it does that Pro Tools will never adopt to. But the above two things are just so essential in my mind to nearly everything I do in a DAW, from recording music to editing podcasts to sound design, that I just don't really understand how people work without them. Like, I literally can't understand. I want to understand!

I would LOVE to hear what I'm missing! How are you doing those two things? Why is the Reaper takes system functional in practice? Please tell me I've just been brainwashed in to thinking the PT system is the only system and I just need to see the light. I would love to switch TODAY if these things could be answered....

(apologies if I've missed something obvious i've tried to read all the posts/watch all the videos on comping and I haven't found a solution)
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Old 01-14-2021, 12:00 PM   #263
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you're not missing anything. It just hurts. I feel the pain every day.
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Old 01-14-2021, 01:17 PM   #264
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this is how I do it with TI groups (an example)
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Old 01-14-2021, 05:07 PM   #265
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yes heda, that's nice, but - don't get me wrong - it's just a script. As far as I know, you can't use shortcuts for the commands needed. Besides:
1) is it possible to see the recorded content of all "versions/playlists" at once? I need to have a quick overview of how many takes of which part I got.
2) is it possible to assign a track to multiple groups? In many situations it's crucial to edit all tracks at once, switch to the "keys" group, and do some edits there and go back to "all". That's one of the biggest downsides in reapers system for me. Item groups get messed up when doing edits in single parts of the item group.
3) For me, this is a DAW core feature. As a professional (in the proper sense) I don't want to be dependent on a third party script (no matter how good it is) in paid jobs.

As I said, no offense. I know you're doing damn good scripts. But this needs to be implemented natively. Together with track edit groups. It's the first thing I always get asked when it comes to DAW comparisons: How do you do multitrack editing in reaper.
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:15 PM   #266
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no offense taken. I know. Of course native solution is better, but in the meantime (sometimes it can be years), scripts can help

you "don't want to be dependent on a third party script (no matter how good it is) in paid jobs." ok, I understand. But you said you "feel the pain every day", so I just tried to help
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Old 01-14-2021, 06:20 PM   #267
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Looking forward to that new version leaving beta...
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Old 01-14-2021, 08:42 PM   #268
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no offense taken. I know. Of course native solution is better, but in the meantime (sometimes it can be years), scripts can help

you "don't want to be dependent on a third party script (no matter how good it is) in paid jobs." ok, I understand. But you said you "feel the pain every day", so I just tried to help
Ugh really? My whole Reaper life depends on 3rd party scripts and I’m not doing anything else than professional projects. But oh well, horses for courses.
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Old 01-14-2021, 10:25 PM   #269
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this is how I do it with TI groups (an example)
is that TI ?
how come my TI doesnt have that "add on" section?
or....is thrr a new update coming ??
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Old 01-15-2021, 01:50 AM   #270
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is that TI ?
how come my TI doesnt have that "add on" section?
or....is thrr a new update coming ??
yes it is an internal beta version of TI 2. I have a few beta testers in my discord server.
I hope to release it soon. I need more testing precisely in the Versions add-on. I don't want someone to use it on a real project and lose any track version for some reason.
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Old 01-15-2021, 05:42 AM   #271
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yes it is an internal beta version of TI 2. I have a few beta testers in my discord server.
I hope to release it soon. I need more testing precisely in the Versions add-on. I don't want someone to use it on a real project and lose any track version for some reason.
nice ! thx for ur development ! big time saver.
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:52 AM   #272
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thanks for the replies!

heda that looks cool - when you say TI is that referring to the 'Track Inspector' script on your site? I'll check it out and see if it can relieve the 'pain'. While I agree with the needs that G n K mentioned, this does seem like a more useful system than the core Reaper one.

also your other scripts look amazing, I'm happy to have found them! this is exactly the kind of Reaper magic i want to be using...

any other methods for these comping workflows?

thx all!
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Old 01-15-2021, 10:56 AM   #273
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thanks for the replies!

heda that looks cool - when you say TI is that referring to the 'Track Inspector' script on your site? I'll check it out and see if it can relieve the 'pain'. While I agree with the needs that G n K mentioned, this does seem like a more useful system than the core Reaper one.

also your other scripts look amazing, I'm happy to have found them! this is exactly the kind of Reaper magic i want to be using...

any other methods for these comping workflows?

thx all!
z
Note that the functionality he demonstrates is in an upcoming new version of TI, but it isn't available to the general public just yet. Even the current version of TI is worth it IMO though, for other reasons.
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Old 01-15-2021, 12:08 PM   #274
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Note that the functionality he demonstrates is in an upcoming new version of TI, but it isn't available to the general public just yet. Even the current version of TI is worth it IMO though, for other reasons.
Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks!

Not to derail this thread, but I've run across the debate that was just mentioned above a few times on Reaper forums, basically: can you rely on 3rd party scripts as part of a 'professional' workflow, which I read as just a reliability question. I'd be curious for opinions on this...is the issue that this question is just too much of a generalization? As in some 3rd party scripts are rock solid and some aren't? Or is it a valid concern that when new versions of Reaper are released there is a gap in functionality with some or all 3rd party scripts?

Also still curious if anyone has any other comping strategies (for track groups and horizontal-moving-of-individual-takes) with currently available software.

thanks,
z
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Old 01-15-2021, 12:37 PM   #275
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Gotcha, that makes sense. Thanks!

Not to derail this thread, but I've run across the debate that was just mentioned above a few times on Reaper forums, basically: can you rely on 3rd party scripts as part of a 'professional' workflow, which I read as just a reliability question. I'd be curious for opinions on this...is the issue that this question is just too much of a generalization? As in some 3rd party scripts are rock solid and some aren't? Or is it a valid concern that when new versions of Reaper are released there is a gap in functionality with some or all 3rd party scripts?

Also still curious if anyone has any other comping strategies (for track groups and horizontal-moving-of-individual-takes) with currently available software.

thanks,
z
A professional does not update the DAW unless they can afford the time to troubleshoot any problems that arise. This is true even if not using any third-party scripts.

I haven't had any problems with the third-party scripts I use, including those made by Heda.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:23 PM   #276
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heda is it somehow possible to convert your track versions to a standard reaper setup? just in case...
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:01 PM   #277
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+1 on a Playlists workflow. Please!
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Reaper - Studio One - UAD LUNA, I displace and air and water... For now.
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Old 02-27-2021, 11:03 AM   #278
tonalstates
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+1 on this pls
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Old 02-27-2021, 11:20 AM   #279
heda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
heda is it somehow possible to convert your track versions to a standard reaper setup? just in case...
sure. I think so. standard reaper setup meaning to explode creating a track for each version for example? that is done. or what do you mean exactly?
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Old 03-05-2021, 02:37 PM   #280
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Default Another PT user pt. 2

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Originally Posted by zubin View Post
Hey all,

I'm another PT user who dreams of switching to Reaper, but this issue keeps preventing me from taking the plunge. I check back every year or so to see if there's a solution, but it seems like it's still simmering unresolved.

The main things for me are:
- I am constantly recording things that use multiple mics. Drums, yes, but also vocals with more than one mic, synths with a hardware reverb send, piano with close mics and room mics, sound fx from multiple distances, etc etc. Every time I look in to recording multiple tracks and keeping comp choices synced I find posts with what feel like work arounds...how are people doing this?
- When I'm comping I always need to move different takes horizontally, independent of each other. Maybe it's a vocal and one phrase is great but i'd like to hear it nudged a little earlier. Maybe I want to grab a high note from the second chorus and try it in the first chorus. etc. The fact that the reaper take system glues all the audio vertically is such a head scratcher for me...do most users just not move audio horizontally when they're editing? Is there an easy solution for this?

I think what's so consistently confusing for me is that Reaper is clearly a platform that is constantly evolving to make all the dreams of it's users come true, and there are about a thousand amazing things that it does that Pro Tools will never adopt to. But the above two things are just so essential in my mind to nearly everything I do in a DAW, from recording music to editing podcasts to sound design, that I just don't really understand how people work without them. Like, I literally can't understand. I want to understand!

I would LOVE to hear what I'm missing! How are you doing those two things? Why is the Reaper takes system functional in practice? Please tell me I've just been brainwashed in to thinking the PT system is the only system and I just need to see the light. I would love to switch TODAY if these things could be answered....

(apologies if I've missed something obvious i've tried to read all the posts/watch all the videos on comping and I haven't found a solution)


Hey everyone,

I just wanted to report back after a few weeks pecking away at this. I found some solutions that are working ok for me, though I'm still putting them through the paces. I still think having a real playlists option would be amazing and I hope Reaper hears the call, but here's what I'm doing now:

- I took OLSHALOM's advice and added a "SWS/AW: Toggle auto group newly recorded items button" to my toolbar. If I hit that every time I'm recording on multiple tracks it groups my items and then my comp edits are mirrored in the different tracks. I'm realizing that a major mind shift from Pro Tools is just to constantly think more in terms of 'items' than 'tracks'...i'm finding this in many respects across reaper and I think it's actually quite liberating. This is exactly the kind of 'set my PT mind free' thing I've been looking for, in that it's different but it actually opens up flexibility.

- For my second question about moving takes horizontally, I've managed this with the mouse modifier 'Move item contents'. If I use this modifier (which I have set to shift-drag) I can slide the contents of different takes left and right without impacting the other takes. Again, this is different from the pro tools playlist workflow, but I'm realizing ways that it can be even more flexible.

- In addition, I made the following key commands which have made things feel more smooth:

Cmd+Opt+Ctrl+Up - Move active comp to top lane
Cmd+Opt+Ctrl+Down - Save/rename active comp
Cmd+Opt+Ctrl+Left Click - choose different comps

So I can quickly move my chosen takes to be in the top lane, save the comps, and switch between different comps that I've made. This solved a few other behaviors that had been feeling clunky.

- I'm also getting more in to sub-projects, which are such an amazing feature. If I'm editing some grouped tracks and things are getting messy and/or I need to start doing a bunch of horizontal moving, I'll just pop them in to a subproject and do the edits there. I can go nuts and use tons of extra tracks in a sort of 'playlist style', all while keeping my main project nice and clean. I'm starting to explore multi-channel sub-projects, where I could conceivably have a 6-track drum edit happening in a sub-project and route it all to a single 6-input track in my main session...still kind of wrapping my mind around that, but it's seeming interesting. One question I'm having there is, for example if I was editing my drums in a sub-project, how could I still monitor the rest of the track while doing my editing? Could my sub-project contain a sort of 'feed' from my master project?

Anyways, not sure if this would be helpful to anyone else, but just wanted to document my experience slowly shifting my brain to appreciate the alternative workflows possible here.

Cheers,
Zubin
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