Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Pre-Release Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-10-2015, 04:43 PM   #1
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default a thread about pitch/rate envelope solutions in v5

many users desire a per item non-destructive pitch envelope that smoothly adjusts both pitch & rate <<.

otherwise know as varispeed pitch-bend tape-stop etc etc.

in V5 we have the addition of per item fx envelopes, but no pitch/rate. so we repeat the request and in the mean time bodge away our own solutions:

using v5's per item envelopes, my previous preferred solution in v4 using reasamplomatic pitch envelope can be neatened up to the point of sexy..



speedy huh. neat too. move it around (its attached as a new take), re-adjust, render fx to new take.. world is your oyster.

-

i include a track template, and one macro in a keymap for anyone curious.

you will need sws s&m extension:

**note**: the track template never gets inserted into projects to mess with your stuff, just the little item within it.

setup:
----------------------------

put template where reaper templates live.

import the keymap via actions menu - its called 'pitch inserter loop fix' - no key is assigned to it yet.

-- bring up the sws extension 'resources' window. <<

select 'track template' from drop down box

then hit the *2nd button to import/populate templates into the slots.

Locate the 'pitch rate adjust my item' template in the newly populated list and (for now at least) drag and move it to **slot 2** as the macro expects it to be in slot 2.

you can change that later within the macro if you need to.


assign a key/controller to the 'pitch inserter loop fix' macro action now in the actions list - shift P was free here.


done!


------------------------------


now - when you have an item you want to adjust/tapestop/varispeed:

1: select the item, hit the macro key and:

a new take appears under the original item with a take envelope showing and a reasamplomatic item fx appears.
the item is zoomed-in to aid drawing envelopes and the original item take (presuming there were no takes to start with) is now also selected so that you can just:

2: >> hit 'import from arrange' in reasamplomatic.

close the item fx if you like and then draw in your pitch/rate adjustments into the new take envelope. (take has to be active to draw the envelope so no need to tell you to reactivate the take..)

alternatively learn the pitch adjust in the sampler to a midi control etc.


i make that 1 more click than native, 2 more if you click to close the item fx.

p.s

- btw the new take is just a midi item that contains sampler as item fx and has a midi note at the start of it. thats it.
Macro inserts the item onto same track as original item, adjusts it to same length , then implodes it new take of original. Then shows the item fx.

- you can also alt-shift-T to show only the envelope, but i think having the original is a good reference at least until user renders item fx.


ATTACHMENTS via reaper stash: **YOU NEED BOTH A+B or A+C**

A: https://stash.reaper.fm/23213/pitch-...X.ReaperKeyMap
B: https://stash.reaper.fm/23210/pitch-...RTrackTemplate

EDIT for 2019: ****

adds optional template that uses pitch wheel for less pitch bend range in the envelope ( +- 12 instead of 80 )
also the midi trigger item is shorter for reliability purposes and sampler release set to 0.

C: ** https://stash.reaper.fm/36710/pitch-...rackTemplate**

load C into slot 2 of sws resources in place of template B (best do this by r-click slot 2 and goto load)

n.b ensure template is in sws s&m resources template slot 2 and **'offset by edit cursor' ** is ticked. PLUS ensure reaper's insert track template menu 'offset template items by edit cursor' is ticked ON. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< CHECK THAT AGAIN.


here a quick video of template B (less range) in
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?

Last edited by BenK-msx; 07-09-2019 at 04:52 PM.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2015, 11:06 PM   #2
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
Default

I would recommend just using my pitch bending extension plugin. Unfortunately it isn't available for OS-X (and probably Windows XP), so I won't recommend it generally. It is IMHO however the easiest and fastest way to achieve the varispeeded processing on individual media items, even though it's not real time and the preview can't be listened and adjusted in the context of the full mix. (There's a tiny chance the OS-X build of the plugin will appear some day...)
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.

Last edited by Xenakios; 02-10-2015 at 11:12 PM.
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 02:03 AM   #3
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

Nice hack benk!

I can recommend xenakios pitch bend, it's very powerful!

Rate based pitch bend on items is the last big sound design frontier that I'm hoping the devs can give us in 5.

I don't care if the waveform doesn't update. It would be so useful to have it!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 02:49 AM   #4
Thalamus
Human being with feelings
 
Thalamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 607
Default

I don't really understand why showing the temporal variations in the waveform visually would be a big hurdle technically.
Thalamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 08:15 AM   #5
Thalamus
Human being with feelings
 
Thalamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by musicbynumbers View Post
Nice hack benk!

I can recommend xenakios pitch bend, it's very powerful!

Rate based pitch bend on items is the last big sound design frontier that I'm hoping the devs can give us in 5.

I don't care if the waveform doesn't update. It would be so useful to have it!

Where can I grab the Xenakios bend addon please?


Cheers
Thal
Thalamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 09:18 AM   #6
nofish
Human being with feelings
 
nofish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalamus View Post
Where can I grab the Xenakios bend addon please?


Cheers
Thal
Here

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=138758
nofish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2015, 11:00 AM   #7
X-Raym
Human being with feelings
 
X-Raym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,875
Default

@BenK-msk
Thank you fo sharing this varispeed solution ! It seems quite powerful when set up !
Does it work with negative playrate (such as with scratch vinyl vst emulation) ?
X-Raym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 03:01 AM   #8
Thalamus
Human being with feelings
 
Thalamus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 607
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
I would recommend just using my pitch bending extension plugin. Unfortunately it isn't available for OS-X (and probably Windows XP), so I won't recommend it generally. It is IMHO however the easiest and fastest way to achieve the varispeeded processing on individual media items, even though it's not real time and the preview can't be listened and adjusted in the context of the full mix. (There's a tiny chance the OS-X build of the plugin will appear some day...)


Is the pitch plugin available for Reaper 64bit?
Where can I find your enhancements please? I have installed the SWS stuff and I can see a lot of Xenakios actions, but no bend.

Many thanks
Thal
Thalamus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 06:44 AM   #9
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
I would recommend just using my pitch bending extension plugin. Unfortunately it isn't available for OS-X (and probably Windows XP), so I won't recommend it generally. It is IMHO however the easiest and fastest way to achieve the varispeeded processing on individual media items, even though it's not real time and the preview can't be listened and adjusted in the context of the full mix. (There's a tiny chance the OS-X build of the plugin will appear some day...)
Thanks for the .. 'recommendation'.. Easiest and fastest except x, except y and win only (and you might have install issues..) !

The above method is very fast and easy, is realtime, listenable in context and works for all ( with sws s&m ) and functions how I want an item pitch rate envelope to work.

Hitting 'import from arrange' is the only additional step.

I understand the desire to plug your plugin but give me some slack jack, just sharing a method I like and prefer.

Such pitch adjustments absolutely need to be in context for timing and Need to be tweakable.. Else I'm not interested. now this is item based its much closer to what a native solution would be like.

To visualise any tweaks a quick 'render item fx to new take' shows exactly what is going on and can be undone/deleted or kept as a take.

To any forum jockeys: Please keep any 'ugh its just a workaround' gripes in your gizzard as A: I know. B: don't care!
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?

Last edited by BenK-msx; 02-11-2015 at 01:22 PM. Reason: diff giff
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:01 AM   #10
Xenakios
Human being with feelings
 
Xenakios's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Oulu, Finland
Posts: 8,062
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenK-msx View Post
give me some slack jack, just sharing a method I like and prefer.
Well, your method is something I probably personally wouldn't bother try using, to me it seems like a lot of hassle to use. But let's agree neither your solution nor my plugin are perfect? (My plugin was intended to replicate the workflow that was available to me in ProTools and Cubase back in the Dark Ages. You would select a media item, pop up an offline processing plugin and render. If it didn't work right in the context of a mix, retry until satisfied...That to me was better than nothing. I am not arguing proper realtime adjustable item based envelopes for the varispeeding is not the right the way to go...)
__________________
I am no longer part of the REAPER community. Please don't contact me with any REAPER-related issues.
Xenakios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 08:28 AM   #11
musicbynumbers
Human being with feelings
 
musicbynumbers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
Default

Let's just all agree that both methods have their merits but all of us would kill for rate based envelopes on items!
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
musicbynumbers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 09:33 AM   #12
BenK-msx
Human being with feelings
 
BenK-msx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Whales, UK
Posts: 6,009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
Well, your method is something I probably personally wouldn't bother try using, to me it seems like a lot of hassle to use. But let's agree neither your solution nor my plugin are perfect? (My plugin was intended to replicate the workflow that was available to me in ProTools and Cubase back in the Dark Ages. You would select a media item, pop up an offline processing plugin and render. If it didn't work right in the context of a mix, retry until satisfied...That to me was better than nothing. I am not arguing proper realtime adjustable item based envelopes for the varispeeding is not the right the way to go...)
For the first reply to be 'I recommend my plugin its easier and faster' despite it not being easier or faster, and with no reference to the OP is a bad form IMO.

to say its a lot of hassle is factually incorrect/bizarre.

See the gif. That's it. I am drawing a realtime non destructive smooth, item locked pitch rate envelope in seconds.

The one time setup is no doubt as much or a less hassle than installing your plugin.

I was tempted to try your plug it but I read a whole load of installation issues and the fact that it is offline is just not what I required. Thats ok though.
I didn't post on the thread that I thought it was a clunky hassle though did i?

I come from tracker origins where pitch/rate relationship was basically how the whole thing worked as am sure you know, but key is adjusting it in a musical way which means timing.


End result is I am happy I have this option - you are happy too. Lovely.
but why not just be quiet about this, or try it then list the flaws/drawbacks?

@mbn that is self evident! If devs added it tomorrow i'd not weep for my half an hr of macro tweaking.

Edit: better .gif in OP now
__________________
JS Super8 Looper Template & intro | BCF2000 uber info Thread | Who killed the Lounge?

Last edited by BenK-msx; 02-11-2015 at 01:27 PM.
BenK-msx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2015, 11:06 PM   #13
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

sexy!

definitely the kinda thing id like to have as a per item envelope solution within Reaper. Nice work!
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.