Old 11-12-2019, 02:40 AM   #1
RipperBB
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Default Send Program Change on Track Arm

Hi all.
I am searching for a backup solution, or permanent (who knows?!), for the first gig that my newly formed band will have in February. At the moment i am using http://www.midikuper.com/ and it seems to be fine (it hasn't had a crash or any fail during rehearsals till today).
I think that anybody thinks on backup solutions for live shows... herm... (Lol)

For the moment i don't need back-tracks or any pre-recorded stuff. All i need for now is Program Changes for my hardware: synths and effects.
I am expecting Song Switcher to help me with this, as i can already change Songs with it connected to my DIY midi foot switch (Teensy board with 4 foot switches in a box). I can also switch to Previous or Next track folder track in the Songs. So, no problem with Song Switcher and footswitch in that regards.

My problem is sending on Track-Arm the Program Changes that i put in each track with ReaControMidi. (I already created the Reabanks and it works in the plugin itself to send the changes for the hardware)
If i record a midi file and put those changes in the track it works when i press play. I prefer to not need to use the midi tracks for now or having to press play as this may turn to be a issue in some parts of the songs

- So, how can we send Program Changes when we arm a track? Or auto Play on Track Record-Arm?



P.S.: I am thinking on using a Raspberry Pi 4 for this with Reaper.
Before trying in Raspbian i am working on Windows 10 Reaper and would copy the process for Raspbian when this is found to be working.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:48 PM   #2
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So, there is no way to have ReaControlMIDI or Insert-Piz MidiControlChange to send the MSB/LSB+Program Change on Track Record-Arm or Play or some other similar way?
Do we really have to use midi tracks for this? I just find this awkward to not be possible to do with such a immensely capable DAW like Reaper.

Yes, with midi tracks i have it working already.
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Old 11-16-2019, 11:30 AM   #3
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I solved it.
After a good set of time exploring this i was able to set "Bank/Program en" field to be enabled by my DIY Teensy pedalboard throught parameter control put in the Track without recording any MIDI data in a Track or enabling Play. Reaper is now sending PC commands to my midi hardware.
Now to work on some songs to test this for errors with Song Switcher.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:44 AM   #4
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Nice to see you've found workaround for your needs, and thanks for sharing it.
Maybe you're well aware of that but you could have done approximately the same thing with live config using the preset switcher to "activate" the send of the Midi Program Change with switching Reacontrolmidi's preset with live config's FX preset column.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
Nice to see you've found workaround for your needs, and thanks for sharing it.
Maybe you're well aware of that but you could have done approximately the same thing with live config using the preset switcher to "activate" the send of the Midi Program Change with switching Reacontrolmidi's preset with live config's FX preset column.
Hi Regisfofo, thanks for the heads up.
I haven't tried live configs yet but will do later.
Thanks again.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:41 AM   #6
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Following mschnell's post on Live Config, one of the requirements is MIDItoReaControlPath. It can't be installed in Raspbian. At least not a way that i could make it till now.
Is there any way of installing MIDItoReaControlPath in a Raspberry PI?

I haven't tried using WINE with some x86 emulator but for sure it would make it to become slow, which would break the purpose of this project.

Well, lets follow the original plan with Song Switcher till there is something more on this.
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Old 11-18-2019, 09:48 AM   #7
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One way to do this is by putting the configuration messages (bank select/CC etc) in MIDI items within the song's folder. They would be sent on playback. If you have song switcher configured to seek the playhead and not stop playback when switching songs, they would be sent immediately upon switching.

Last edited by cfillion; 11-19-2019 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 04:43 PM   #8
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Mmm I may be wrong but I don't think liveconfig 'require' miditoreacontrolpath. It depends exactly what you want to do with it.
If all switching is done with your midi controller, you can enable it to input in the reacontrolpath within midi device preferences.
What made me think of live config for you is those start up action/preset on switching tracks.
Some guitar players don't like it, because there is a little silent gap when switching though.

Last edited by Regisfofo; 11-18-2019 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 11-18-2019, 11:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
If all switching is done with your midi controller, you can enable it to input in the reacontrolpath within midi device preferences.
Only if the Midi controller actually exactly sends a dedicated CC for any LiveConfigs "Row" you want to switch to.

If it send Program Switch (like many keyboards do), or you want a more complex behavior, you need to do Midi Preprocessing in the FX chain of a track and use MidiToReaControlPath to route the result to LiveConfigs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regisfofo View Post
Some guitar players don't like it, because there is a little silent gap when switching though.
Yep this is how LiveConfigs works (when used for selecting tacks). Just one from a set of tracks. Never two at the same time. Hence no "Spill over".

-Michael
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:47 AM   #10
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I always used fully configurable midi devices so you can choose what each control is sending. So now I get your point Michael.
Teensy board seem pretty configurable though. It can send cc right? Maybe it could increment/ Decrement CC too. I'm pretty sure it can drive Liveconfig without miditoreacontrolpath.

Anyhow, Reaper is often confusing, because there are so many ways to do the same thing, I haven't experiment everyway but here is my feeling,
I'd say If you need to play backing track, song switcher seems a good solution and you have that nice Gui + dedicated Control web interface.
If you need a lot of action control when switching. Liveconfig is most easy to configure if you can live with the small gap between switchs.
If you need Daw 'absolute' control when switching (including levels, pans, sends etc...) go lbx stripper. (Not the easiest to learn, but Leon is pretty responsive, you'll get help on the dedicate thread too). But I don't know how if it can run on linux.

Hope it helps!
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Old 11-19-2019, 03:10 AM   #11
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Hi guys.
My Teensy pedal has 4 switches:
2 for Scenes(or parts in a song) Up/Down. CC# 112 and CC#113;
2 for Song up/down. CC# 117 and CC# 118.

I would prefer to do my setting in Reaper and not in the Arduino-Teensy as it is working nicely for this.

Anyway, i'm reading all your advises and will decide while i experiment with them all.

Thank you for your input and for all the work you guys put in Reaper.

Cheers from Portugal
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:12 AM   #12
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Doing such an up/down behavior needs a rather complex programming in Reaper. (And I in fact think it's too dangerous to be useful.)

I's doable by a JSFX (which I prefer) or by scripting.

-Michael
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Old 11-19-2019, 07:32 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Doing such an up/down behavior needs a rather complex programming in Reaper. (And I in fact think it's too dangerous to be useful.)

I's doable by a JSFX (which I prefer) or by scripting.

-Michael
In what terms would that be dangerous? Just so that i can re-think my brainstorm on this, please.

The tests i made with Song Switcher are showing this to be very smooth. It jumps per song (folder) and/or per scene/part (sub-folder) nicely, arming the tracks included in the selected folder. What i haven't tested yet is the key splitting, which i need strongly too.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:01 PM   #14
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Great you got that working !

By "dangerous" I meant that you easily can loose track of where you are at a given moment and there is no means to directly jump to a defined location.
Seems like horror on stage.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 11-19-2019 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 11-19-2019, 02:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Great you got th4atr working !

By "dangerous" I meant that you easily can loose track of where you are at a given moment and there is no means to directly jump to a defined location.
Seems like horror on stage.

-Michael
Ah, that kind of dangerous.
True, but i expect to use a 7" touchscreen to be prepared for that. But, yes, thats nothing anyone would like to face on stage.
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