Old 11-28-2016, 05:33 PM   #281
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Congrats zacki and everyone! Excellent learning experience on various levels.

Couple quick thoughts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
If applying 3 pts to 1st vote, 2 pts to 2nd vote, and 1 pt for third...

First: zacki (31 pts)
Second: soundguy84 (16 pts)
Third: James HE (12 pts)
Not to diminish my own tie for third place, but this seems totally right score-wise.

There might be good arguments against this, but it would be nice to have the ID number along with user name at least in the Render folder. One mix did pretty much just what I was going for but better, and it seems really hard to tell which one that was without downloading and matching all the files, unless I'm missing something (totally possible).

Like a couple other folks, I found the differences between the overall tone of the mixes totally interesting. What surprised me was turning up the volume when listening to all of them, which I almost didn't even though I always do when mixing. I had one set of picks based on quietish everyday listening volume, but then thought it was worth a spin to hear them all at 83db or so at my listening position. My picks definitely changed. The reverb karbo's talking about was also way more obvious.

Anyway, very cool to mix with only on Reaper-included plug-ins. Would definitely do another as time permits
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:37 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by Otto Tune View Post
The reverb karbo's talking about was also way more obvious.
That's a good point about listening levels too. I'm always guilty of mixing a little loud (though I did better at that than usual with this contest from trying to be aware of it). However, I know me so I'd guarantee my mix probably does better the louder you turn it up due to my louder mixing habit so don't be afraid to crank it up after the fact. I can't really apologize for that, I'm a child of the 70s and still can't help but like music louder than 83dB mixing levels, I just do.

I'll peel through some more of these and add more comments as the days go by because to me the post discussion is far more important than the actual mixing process. The biggest thing I'm noticing right now is that every mix submitted could use a good comparison against well-done commercial mixes, we all could have done better at that I think and it's probably the biggest thing bugging me if I didn't enter the contest and had to sit back as an observer an comment. Some of that is the bands fault but not all of it.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:42 PM   #283
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Wow, hah hah, I didn't get any votes.

I really flubbed up when I sent that second mix to Dave, oh well.

I did have fun and I learned quite a bit about some of the Reaper plugins.

Any way, congrats to the winners.

Well done zacki. I think I picked you for #1 too.

For what it's worth, this is the first mp3 I sent Dave. The biggest problem I had was trying to get some bottom end out of the bass, and I tried adding more with my 2nd mix, which was a big mistake.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8s...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:47 PM   #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tod
The biggest problem I had was trying to get some bottom end out of the bass
As I said up ^there, that bass recording was not quite but wanting to be horrid - I was quite surprised it was that bad - again, not the contests problem, that's part of mixing life - It's just that there is a mix rescue article on these same tracks @ sound on sound and to be at that level of attention, made me expect more than what I can get at home and just playing and recording the bass myself.

FWIW: here is that article, some of the wording makes me think we might be missing one or two tracks but I think overall it's the same tracks we mixed: http://www.soundonsound.com/techniqu...escue-phre-eon. I just read it earlier today because when I found it two weeks ago, I didn't want to be influenced by it. Btw, Mike used Reaper and unfortunately, I'm not seeing a link to his resulting mix unless it is the same one in the first post - Hmm, I should check that one out as I have never heard any mixes of this outside the contest.
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:57 PM   #285
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OH nevermind I found the post.. lol
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:23 PM   #286
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When is the next mix contest??? im bored

I want something electronic to mix!
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:39 PM   #287
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Yeah I totally forgot to say which ID belongs to who (by the way sorry if I make a few mistakes when I write in English, I'm not a native speaker)


ID: 1 BJORG
ID: 2 insub
ID: 3 James HE
ID: 4 karbomusic
ID: 5 Tod
ID: 6 Otto Tune
ID: 7 zacki
ID: 8 richie43
ID: 9 thunderbroom
ID: 10 EpicSounds
ID: 11 JH4094
ID: 12 VinodXAgent
ID: 13 germano
ID: 14 lolilol1975
ID: 15 soundguy84
ID: 16 martimadero
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:43 PM   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OPI View Post
When is the next mix contest??? im bored

I want something electronic to mix!
The contests start the first day of every month

For December I've already found a mix, but regarding next year we'll see
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Old 11-28-2016, 07:47 PM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Wow, hah hah, I didn't get any votes.

I really flubbed up when I sent that second mix to Dave, oh well.

I did have fun and I learned quite a bit about some of the Reaper plugins.

Any way, congrats to the winners.

Well done zacki. I think I picked you for #1 too.

For what it's worth, this is the first mp3 I sent Dave. The biggest problem I had was trying to get some bottom end out of the bass, and I tried adding more with my 2nd mix, which was a big mistake.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8s...ew?usp=sharing
Tod in the results I only showed the top 3 mixes for the first, second and third place. You actually got 2 votes but it wasn't enough
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Old 11-28-2016, 10:28 PM   #290
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I have some quick notes about my impression of each mix at home, at least for the 1st 12 mixes. I can share later in the week when I get back home.

Maybe we can do a quick comment per mix regarding our personal opinion of each one. Not to tear each other down by being mean, but just a little, "I would fix this if I were mixing it." We could refer our comments only to the mix ID # rather than names. That way people would have to look up the reference to know who's mix the comment is about.
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Old 11-28-2016, 10:30 PM   #291
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Good fun! Thanks for doing this Dave!
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Old 11-28-2016, 10:33 PM   #292
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I think I would prefer if there were a little less duration for voting and a little more time for post-discussion. Right now, we'll be on to the next mix before getting much of a chance to talk about this one.

Or, maybe we should just go ahead and discuss the challenges we encounter as we go. I feel like I had a bunch of topics that I wanted to discuss for later as I was working. But, I've since worked on another mix, among other things, and forgot much of what I wanted to discuss. Hopefully, they'll come back to me as I go through some of the other projects.
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Old 11-29-2016, 05:15 AM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richie43 View Post
Good fun! Thanks for doing this Dave!
you're welcome richie
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:50 AM   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insub View Post
Not to tear each other down by being mean, but just a little, "I would fix this if I were mixing it." We could refer our comments only to the mix ID # rather than names. That way people would have to look up the reference to know who's mix the comment is about.
Maybe do that but include one thing you would most likely change and one thing you liked the most about each one.
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Old 11-29-2016, 06:52 AM   #295
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Originally Posted by insub View Post
If applying 3 pts to 1st vote, 2 pts to 2nd vote, and 1 pt for third...
Thanks for clarifying...sometimes I feel very, very stupid...

And congrats to zacki! You really deserve this 1st place!

Peter
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Old 11-29-2016, 08:41 AM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Wow, hah hah, I didn't get any votes.

I really flubbed up when I sent that second mix to Dave, oh well.

I did have fun and I learned quite a bit about some of the Reaper plugins.

Any way, congrats to the winners.

Well done zacki. I think I picked you for #1 too.

For what it's worth, this is the first mp3 I sent Dave. The biggest problem I had was trying to get some bottom end out of the bass, and I tried adding more with my 2nd mix, which was a big mistake.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8s...ew?usp=sharing
i like your mix tod, is one of the best!
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Old 11-29-2016, 09:03 AM   #297
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Hi Tod,
Listening to the project files today. Your Mix is one of the best, maybe that translated not so well to your mp3? Anyhow, your mix captures that little bit of performance that is in this otherwise shitty production. Your Mix has a flow and is groovy. A good showcase for reaper (forget the voting, that is for kids).
Greeting from Hamburg
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:02 AM   #298
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I'm going to start the discussions with a question for you all:

What's the trickiest part you had to deal with, what was your approach and how did you fix it?
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:21 AM   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post

What's the trickiest part you had to deal with, what was your approach and how did you fix it?
The only thing I can think of is one of the bass tracks was terribly hot in the 3k range (or so) due to the bass player continually slapping those high notes (why the heck is the *bass* player up there that high anyway ) - I fixed that using reacomp and adjusting it's filter to only react when that frequency range went hot leaving other frequencies unaffected. I originally used pre/post emphasis EQs to do that but found the built in filtering in ReaComp was the same result and less complicated to setup. Sort of a poor man's single-band compression using reacomp.

On an unrelated note of something users might want to check out in the project, in order to get the background harmony vocal to sit well and be stereo was to duplicate the track and insert a ReaEQ on each. I boosted/cut multiple frequencies with a narrow Q, then I mirrored all those curves on the other track (ReaEQ has a button to do this). What this does is give a decent stereo spread that collapses to mono well. IOW, had I duplicated the tracks and offset one by 20ms or so, then we'd have a comb filtering issue when folding down to mono.
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:33 AM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martinmadero View Post
i like your mix tod, is one of the best!
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinodXAgent View Post
Hi Tod,
Listening to the project files today. Your Mix is one of the best, maybe that translated not so well to your mp3? Anyhow, your mix captures that little bit of performance that is in this otherwise shitty production. Your Mix has a flow and is groovy. A good showcase for reaper (forget the voting, that is for kids).
Greeting from Hamburg
Vinod
Wow, thanks to both of you for the kind words, you made my day.
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:52 AM   #301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveKeehl View Post
I'm going to start the discussions with a question for you all:

What's the trickiest part you had to deal with, what was your approach and how did you fix it?
I think the main thing to me was the guitar tracks. Although they did have a groove, they got boring and monotonous. My answer to that was to try use the bass track to give it more of a groove and make it not quite so monotonous.

Regarding the vocals, there were various places in the song where the same words and melody were used. I just copy/pasted some of them on other tracks to get more voices. Actually I could have done more of that, the opportunity was there.

I might add, I chose to fade the song out on the end. I tried working with all of it, but that ending was so bad it hurt. Dave did suggest that I not fade it, and I did give it a go, but in the end I thought the song was better with the fade.
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Old 11-29-2016, 10:58 AM   #302
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I might add, I chose to fade the song out on the end. I tried working with all of it, but that ending was so bad it hurt. Dave did suggest that I not fade it, and I did give it a go, but in the end I thought the song was better with the fade.
I originally used a tape-stop effect with the playrate on the master volume - aka make it sound like you pressed your finger on the tape reel until it stopped. I forget why I removed that.

I had also duplicated and placed a JS fuzz distortion on the lead vocal track and some midrange EQ to make it sound like a megaphone, It's still there but I ended up only lightly blending it with the clean vocal (verses only) out of fear it would freak people out - looking back, I still like it, probably should have kept it because the lyric sort of supports a megaphone/disarray type scenario aka falling apart.
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Old 11-29-2016, 11:24 AM   #303
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I made item notes on my 2nd listen through. Here we go.
  • #1 some how this mix sounds "ragged" . some distortion / saturation ? If the vocals weren't buried this mix might be brilliant. honarable mention!
  • #2 feels like I'm listening to this being played back through a guitar amp. there might be some monitoring issues to address here. There mix does have focus though, will give it that.
  • #3 My mix. regretting turning down the vocal ~1 db a the last minute.
  • #4 Good, maybe a bit safe. Guitars should be a bit more aggressive. KICK TOO DARN LOUD!
  • #5 Snare is great! kick is just right! Crash cymbals are just too loud though vocal fx could be a bit more tasteful. Sort of cheesy. guitar is good, but buried at the end a bit too much.
  • #6 mix has good energy, but snare is a bit muffled. Bass is well handled. Kick sound is perfect!
  • #7 Top 3. no - bEST! vocals are well handled. delays are fine, not tooo overdone. drums have good energy (i would have mixed those crashes a bit lower though) everything fits. sounds pro.
  • #8 good balance, maybe lacks a little punch. Bass is really snappy. so close, but something doesn't pull me in here.
  • #9 kick drum isn't fitting the rest of the mix. early refections/ short delay making me feel a bit too queasy. "bad drug experience mix"
  • #10 aggressive compression. not really digging the result. feels like I'm holding my breath... I really need to exhale... please let me breathe! vocal not punching through. guitar maybe too loud. or just everything is so tense.
  • #11 great.. another "bad drug experience" mix. this is actually well executed though - great mix, bad idea.
  • #12 brief moments of brilliance... some small train wrecks... if the train wrecks were more fantastic, this mix would be an 11 out of 10. instead I'm on a fence... top 3 though. (ended up voting this as #2 just cause I appreciated the effort)
  • #13 Odd uneven volume problems. doesn't even feel finished.
  • #14 LCR is beautiful as a cardinal rule, except when it's a cardinal sin.

If I ruffled a few feathers - sorry #notsorry
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Old 11-29-2016, 11:32 AM   #304
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Quote:
#4 Good, maybe a bit safe. Guitars should be a bit more aggressive. KICK TOO DARN LOUD!
Actually thank you for that confirmation, I recently moved and am experiencing some bass issues in my room. I kept reducing the kick and somehow it snuck back up before final render.

On the guitars, I'm still fine with those. Hmm, I did pull the distorted guitars back some so that's plausible too - too mushy for my tastes at the time - I don't really mean too distorted as I do too mushy.

I'll make my list later when I'm home.
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Old 11-29-2016, 11:43 AM   #305
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Just for the heck of it, I thought I'd post a picture of how I used the Orban Loudness Meter. Thanks to Karbo, this was a great tool.

What I did is overlay a screenshot of Orban on my Project file. That way I could see the exact hot spots and level them out.

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Old 11-29-2016, 12:36 PM   #306
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I made item notes on my 2nd listen through. Here we go.
  • #11 great.. another "bad drug experience" mix. this is actually well executed though - great mix, bad idea.

If I ruffled a few feathers - sorry #notsorry
This is a learning experience, so definitely no feathers ruffled. I appreciate the critique. Is it possible to elaborate on the "bad drug experience"? I would definitely appreciate more detail.

This is an awesome contest. Definitely will be a monthly thing for me! Thank you, DaveKeehl!
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Old 11-29-2016, 01:27 PM   #307
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This is a learning experience, so definitely no feathers ruffled. I appreciate the critique. Is it possible to elaborate on the "bad drug experience"? I would definitely appreciate more detail.
The Chorus effect on the vocal is a bit heavy handed, that's all.

"bad drug experience" is just my own weirdness... I have neurocardiogenic syncope - which has been triggered in the past by drug experiences. Moments before losing consciousness, everything I hear starts to get all flangey - Like literally there is a Small Stone Pedal in my head...

I can listen to "Planet Caravan" by Black Sabbath all day - it doesn't start to trigger me. My Bloody Valentines loveless album makes me physically ill sometimes when I try to listen to it. So anything a bit uptempo with a chorused / flanged up vocal - yeah I kinda have some issues with
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Old 11-29-2016, 01:31 PM   #308
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I think the main thing to me was the guitar tracks. Although they did have a groove, they got boring and monotonous. My answer to that was to try use the bass track to give it more of a groove and make it not quite so monotonous.
^^This^^

As Karbo mentioned there are some sharp tones in the Bass I do not like, too. But as a Bass Player I like the overall sound. Not too muffled and a bit funky. Personally I like a dry and gnarly Musicman Bass tone like in the video here: (by the way: don’t know what I should do first - listening or viewing )

The song is not too bad in my opinion. Especially the first half. But the ending isn’t that well.
The most difficult part for me was to get the mud in the low mids out of the tracks. Next difficult thing was the snare sound. I wanted a snappy sound like in the video.

Maybe some words about my equipment: I think my monitors are helping me a lot. I’m using two ADAM A7X and a Wavemaster MX3+ 2.1 System. Yes, the A7X are not cheap - but the MX3 System was. The important thing to me is: I know them! (at least I think so) I’m listening to some chillout tunes with my MX3 as I’m typing this. They’re sounding so pleasant to my ears and costed only 80€. Over time I got to know them both. That makes a decision easier with your sound-notion while comparing to pro mixed songs. Also important: my room is not treated acoustically in any way. That’s on the ToDo list…

What else? Ah, my mastering chain: I’m using a FX chain from the stash. During mixing only the limiter is on and set to -0.1dB peak and 0dB threshold.
Ok, enough. I’m planning to listen to the submissions again on the weekend. But there’s already a lot said where I'm thinking the same way.

Thanks again to all judges
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Old 11-29-2016, 01:46 PM   #309
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^^This^^

As Karbo mentioned there are some sharp tones in the Bass I do not like, too. But as a Bass Player I like the overall sound. Not too muffled and a bit funky. Personally I like a dry and gnarly Musicman Bass tone like in the video here: (by the way: don’t know what I should do first - listening or viewing )
Yep, I have no real problem with the bass tone other than possibly how it was recorded and the player snapping that high note more than I thought was good for the arrangement - I assume he has a piezo tweeter or horn in his bass cab - would have been better if not so repeating/monotonous which could have been improved greatly by at least a little variation toggling between measures - wouldn't take much. That's just something that comes with time and experience.


Quote:
The song is not too bad in my opinion. Especially the first half.
I agree.


Quote:
The most difficult part for me was to get the mud in the low mids out of the tracks.
I'm glad I'm not the only one which brings me to this...

Quote:
I’m using two ADAM A7X
I have the original Mackie HR824s, Equator D5s and Adam A7X, all switchable when mixing. The latter two showed horrible muddy midrange and lack of snap. So much so, I was afraid to fix it completely since I was worrying it was my room. My room is fairly well-treated but I haven't been in it long so I don't fully trust it yet.

Off topic: I hate to be negative, but I found my Equator D5s to be less ideal compared to the hype, their high end did not sound balanced at all and sort of separate from the rest of the spectrum and overall not so good - sort of depressing because once I latched on to it, I found this to be the case with everything I played through them later. If you ever want to know just how far off speaker generally are, set up multiple pairs of them.

Hopefully, I'm not spamming you guys, it's just one of my favorite subjects.
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Old 11-29-2016, 02:27 PM   #310
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#5 Snare is great! kick is just right! Crash cymbals are just too loud though.
Thanks James, yeah, that's the hardest thing for me because the high end is gone in my hearing. Heh heh, I usually have my wife come in to check the high end, but unfortunately I didn't this time.

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vocal fx could be a bit more tasteful. Sort of cheesy. guitar is good, but buried at the end a bit too much.
Humm, maybe, but I'm not one to doctor vocals up with FX. As it is, I did use some delay on them and of course verb as well as some EQ and compression, I like vocals to be natural.
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Old 11-29-2016, 02:34 PM   #311
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The Chorus effect on the vocal is a bit heavy handed, that's all.

"bad drug experience" is just my own weirdness... I have neurocardiogenic syncope - which has been triggered in the past by drug experiences. Moments before losing consciousness, everything I hear starts to get all flangey - Like literally there is a Small Stone Pedal in my head...

I can listen to "Planet Caravan" by Black Sabbath all day - it doesn't start to trigger me. My Bloody Valentines loveless album makes me physically ill sometimes when I try to listen to it. So anything a bit uptempo with a chorused / flanged up vocal - yeah I kinda have some issues with
Sorry to make you sick Appreciate the info.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:08 PM   #312
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Congrats zacki. I have been looking at your RPP and I was happy to see a lot of stuff very similar to how I like to mix, very minimalist. But wow your drum processing is WAY different from mine. Although it's easy for me to say that since I didn't have a chance to participate this month; maybe if I had to mix these drums I would have come up with something similar. But one of the biggest things is that your drums are almost completely mono. The overheads are barely there and every single close mic is up the middle. Any comment on the mono drum choice?
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:09 PM   #313
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Are the mixes anywhere individually? I intended to participate but got busy (sorry, forgot all about it really) but I do want to hear some of them but I'm not going to download 600mb just to hear the top 2-3 voted mixes.

Could you put up mp3 stream links of them or something?

Thanks.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:34 PM   #314
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Are the mixes anywhere individually? I intended to participate but got busy (sorry, forgot all about it really) but I do want to hear some of them but I'm not going to download 600mb just to hear the top 2-3 voted mixes.

Could you put up mp3 stream links of them or something?

Thanks.
sure gimme a sec
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:37 PM   #315
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Are the mixes anywhere individually? I intended to participate but got busy (sorry, forgot all about it really) but I do want to hear some of them but I'm not going to download 600mb just to hear the top 2-3 voted mixes.

Could you put up mp3 stream links of them or something?

Thanks.
Dude! Yes we missed you.

You can listen to them as originally posted here: http://bit.ly/2ewNxzW

Which means you can play them there or download all @ 133MB. Those are anonymously named - if you want to match ids to names see post #287 - otherwise I see Dave said gimme a sec so maybe he has something else cooking.
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Old 11-29-2016, 04:40 PM   #316
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Top 3 mixes: http://bit.ly/2gH2gZH

By the way, with just the last 2 contests I have reached 45% of my google drive free storage. I think after December I will have to delete the October files. I'm going to keep em in my pc anyway.
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Old 11-29-2016, 05:01 PM   #317
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Thanks Dave. Very nice of you.

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By the way, with just the last 2 contests I have reached 45% of my google drive free storage. I think after December I will have to delete the October files. I'm going to keep em in my pc anyway.
Between Google, Dropbox, Microsoft, Apple and [insert free GB of cloud space from whatever computer you last bought here, Asus, whatever, they almost all do it now] you shouldn't have much trouble finding more free cloud space.
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Old 11-29-2016, 05:04 PM   #318
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I'm going to start the discussions with a question for you all:

What's the trickiest part you had to deal with, what was your approach and how did you fix it?
For me, the first thing when opening the project was "What the ^&*( am I going to do with all these guitar tracks!"

It wasn't a sonic issue as much as it was an arrangement issue. i.e what part should have focus when. So I actually started there, with the guitars. I needed to know the context that they should fit in before really working on the rest of the sounds.

I ended up putting them in a "room" (true stereo reverb) to make it all gel together. Also, (as you can tell) I'm not afraid of slapping amp impulses on previously amped guitar and bass tracks, or any source for that matter (Tchad Blake is my engineering hero - he'll use a lot of amp sims on just about anything) So I did the same with the bass, and ended up with this nice wall of sound. Ended up using true stereo impulses on everything - was the best way to go with all the sonic mush I was creating.

The vocal is great here, it really is, nice vibe and performance that fits the song, was a pleasure to work with.

And then the drums - honestly at this point I had a really hard time getting them to fit right. So not really into my drum sound. A consequence of really focusing on them last - not my usual way of working, but wanted to find my roadmap first. The whole time I just wanted to fire up AD and replace that kick and snare, but oh well.
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Old 11-29-2016, 05:06 PM   #319
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Top 3 mixes: http://bit.ly/2gH2gZH

By the way, with just the last 2 contests I have reached 45% of my google drive free storage. I think after December I will have to delete the October files. I'm going to keep em in my pc anyway.
I like mediafire.com a lot -- great interface and 50GB free.
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Old 11-29-2016, 05:20 PM   #320
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I like mediafire.com a lot -- great interface and 50GB free.
I went to their website but the free plan has only 10GB
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