01-16-2023, 10:32 AM | #1 |
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I updated my Wine and the locale broke. Now I can't run yabridge, which means that I can't open a particular project I'm working on until I find a fix. This is the third time.
The only reason I have yabridge and Wine is because I run a few Windows plugins, because developers didn't make Linux versions. Not anymore. Scr*w Windows-only and Mac-only plugin developers. I'm not using nor paying for their plugins anymore from this moment on, until they release a Linux version. They have CLAP, they have VST3 extensions for Linux, they are just goddamn lazy, and I had enough of their laziness. I'm going to be using exclusively Linux-compatible plugins from now on, and sample some Windows ones before I throw them away, will break their copyright, scr*w them. Sorry for the rant. |
01-16-2023, 10:55 AM | #2 | |
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If you are sorry about your rant, you have the power to delete it. Fair enough if you don't want to use Windows plugins any longer. But the simple advice is: don't update wine if everything is working...
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ReaClassical -- Open Source Classical Music Editing Tools for REAPER | Donate via PayPal, Liberapay or Stripe airwindows JSFX ports | Debian & Arch Pro Audio Guides Last edited by chmaha; 01-16-2023 at 11:03 AM. |
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01-16-2023, 11:22 AM | #3 | |
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I guess you are right. But I'm still pissed off at developers for ignoring Linux. Now with Clap they can do platform-independent plugins, so the ball is in their half.
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Anyway, I'll delete the rant in awhile, thanks for your reply. |
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01-16-2023, 11:33 AM | #4 |
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I understand the frustration. I got to a similar point awhile ago re: dongles, which prevent me from running two of my best orchestral libraries. Going all-native Linux is so tempting. I would be there but for the fact that I need orchestral libraries. fortunately, with Kontakt I now have what I need. Garritan Personal Orchestra also works fine with Wine. I prefer LinVST to Yabridge, never had any problems with it.
When the frustration boils over, and you can't do what you want to do, sometimes you just need to vent a little. If things stop working for me, I'll be equally (if not more) upset about it. But that's where you need to take a deep breath, and realize that when you do music on Linux, it's not going to be easy. And although everything may work now, it may stop at any time, for reasons beyond your control. for example, I don't believe Native Access 2 or kontakt 7 work on Linux. no problem, I'll stay with what I have. But you have to keep up with things. I check the NI forum now and then. As well as this place, which I check constantly. That way you can avoid potential problems. Going Native Linux will solve most if not all your problems. If you can find the tools you need, you're much better off. I wish I could. As to sympathy for the devil (so to speak), chmaha makes some good points. but these large corporations like Micro and Apple could quite easily accommodate Linux, if they really wanted to. The smaller developers might have more trouble. Short of a financial motive, they're just not likely to. but it sure would be a nice goodwill gesture! I might be less negative toward windows, and windows-only software, and would therefore be more likely to use it again, at least in limited situations. As of now, I avoid it like the plague, only going on it if absolutely necessary.
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Go forth confidently in the direction of your dreams. Live the life you've imagined - Thoreau Last edited by michael diemer; 01-16-2023 at 11:40 AM. |
01-16-2023, 03:06 PM | #5 |
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Which plugins are these?
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01-17-2023, 04:21 AM | #6 |
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Did you run yabridgectl sync after the upgrade?
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01-17-2023, 05:24 AM | #7 |
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01-17-2023, 05:25 AM | #8 |
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I did. Didn't solve the problem, it solved itself with a reboot and by deleting the Wine locale, but I'm not in the mood to pray to God in order to keep everything working. Better to decrease complexity and not use Wine / yabridge / etc. altogether for audio.
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01-17-2023, 05:27 AM | #9 |
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Thanks for your reply Michael. I agree with you, with the exception that I was simpy amazed how many good plugins there already are for Linux. I can replace most of what I use, and sample the rest. I'm done with this frustration, would rather spend that energy on creating my music
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01-17-2023, 06:01 AM | #10 |
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Glad to works now…i use midiguitar2 from jamorigin they probably will never support Linux but it runs without issue in wine with wineasio. The vsts work that’s what I really use. Using Linux plugins and apps otherwise.
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01-17-2023, 10:17 AM | #11 | |
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01-17-2023, 10:21 AM | #12 | |
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01-17-2023, 10:55 AM | #13 |
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That's how I do it too.
SFZero and reasamplomatic can also be used well. I will never understand why people install Linux and then use Windows software. https://x42-plugins.com/x42/x42-avldrums https://github.com/sfzinstruments/sf...ents.github.io to create your own soundfonts (sf2, sf3, sfz and sfArk) https://github.com/davy7125/polyphone
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01-17-2023, 03:06 PM | #14 |
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I did the exact same thing when starting. Mucked around with yabridge to get the komplete suite working as well as my many other Windows plugins but it was frustrating as hell.
So native linux only now and really I will not spend another cent on plugin developers that do not support linux. Some great ones that i have found that may replace some of the plugins that you are using are: U-He: everything is amazing and supports native Linux Audio Assualt: Guitar amps that sound wonderful (The Crown, Sigma, Shibalba, etc..) I also use their channel strip and EQ plugs Audio Damage: EOS is a great reverb plugin, Desert City for whacky delays. Ugritone: I replaced My toontrack libs with Ugritone drums....they don't advertise a linux version on the site but they do have one if you buy them DecentSampler is starting to get some good libraries for orchestra sounds. I also use BitWig as well which comes with some good woodwinds and string libs too. Anyway hope that helps and I totally get your frustration but it is changing and hopefully with CLAP it accelerates. |
01-17-2023, 06:47 PM | #15 |
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Have you tried wine-tkg 8.0 with yabridge 5.0.3? This combination is working great.
Sometime wine upgrade or yabridge upgrade may break for some reason. But you can always find information in yabridge's discord. And remember to backup your wine prefix folder. Remember your wine version and yabridge version before upgrade. If something broken, you can always downgrade to make all back to normal. |
01-18-2023, 08:35 AM | #16 | ||||
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01-18-2023, 10:37 AM | #17 |
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You probably still had Wine processes running. If you update Wine while Wine is still running you won't be able to spawn new Wine processes, for obvious reasons. You get an error message telling you that an older wineserver version is still running. Either reboot (like you did), or run wineserver -k to kill those processes.
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01-18-2023, 11:42 AM | #18 | |
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01-20-2023, 03:14 PM | #19 | |
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LSP plugs are highly regarded, as are the already mentioned X42 plugs, Overtone DSP plugins, and a myriad of others from a wide collection of linux devs. You could also try DecentSampler instruments, along with the VPO (Virtual playing Orchestra), if you want to add some orchestral instruments to your tunes. (VPO is in SFZ format, and can be used successfully with Linuxsampler, or SFizz, which is also in standalone and plugin format for native linux.) https://lsp-plug.in/ https://www.overtonedsp.co.uk/ http://virtualplaying.com/virtual-playing-orchestra/ https://software.opensuse.org/download.html? project=home%3Asfztools%3Asfizz&package=sfizz Yet another interesting plugin in VST2/VST3/CLAP formats, from Heinbach-Audiothing https://www.audiothing.net/effects/wires/ For what it's worth, i bought all my orchestral libs in gig format years ago, and using LinuxSampler, I have no need to reach into my pocket again for modern day libs (in a non linux friendly format) that are more or less the same as mine, with the added expense of a large chunk spent on "modern day marketing". Can I suggest you head to sites that have classified sections, and ask if anyone is selling their "old" gig format libs (that can be used natively in linux), if that is what you want to use? Here's two to get you started. https://vi-control.net/community/for...ee-service.66/ https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewf...52aebee6bcd8ee Alex.
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AVL-MXDE linux 2023 Last edited by alextone; 01-20-2023 at 03:37 PM. |
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01-20-2023, 03:24 PM | #20 |
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To me it's always a pain when a plugin is not available as AU.
I wish every software maker does only mac software, no more Linux nor Windows. Then the entire internet, only available for macs. Media streaming only for macs. Loudspeakers only work on macs. Free air to breath only with Apple ID ! |
01-20-2023, 03:31 PM | #21 | |
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I'll make my music with . . . real instruments! |
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01-20-2023, 03:39 PM | #22 | |
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01-20-2023, 04:15 PM | #23 |
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Prolly not. Hehe, real instruments reminds me of the South Park episode where the dad breaks out a *real* guitar, and the kids say "real guitars are for old people".
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01-20-2023, 04:18 PM | #24 | |
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AVL-MXDE linux 2023 |
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01-20-2023, 09:58 PM | #25 |
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01-21-2023, 03:40 AM | #26 |
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Reality check: As far as I know, ALL of those apart from Spitfire are free. Hence no real motivation for the Devs to do Linux versions. Be reasonable.
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01-21-2023, 10:29 AM | #27 | |
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So, although I totally agree in principle that Native Linux is best, I am forced by what I do, and what I need in order to do it, to use libraries and vst instruments (like Kontakt) that will let me do what I do on Linux. A compromise, but a necessary one, for me.
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01-21-2023, 10:36 AM | #28 |
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While I have some really decent E-mu bari-sax, tenor-sax, trombone, and trumpet samples that I can load up in LinuxSampler, I still prefer to use the horns from Kontakt, and since switching back to LinVST I haven't had any more dreaded "outages" from WINE updates.
That said, OSXMidi has publicly stated that the next major version of WINE will break LinVST, but that version of WINE has not been released yet, and I already have the updated version of LinVST that will work when it finally does break. (I'm not fixing it yet, coz it ain't broke yet) |
01-21-2023, 12:46 PM | #29 | |
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01-21-2023, 12:58 PM | #30 | |
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https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...40&postcount=7 is what osxmidi said about WINE 8. I downloaded the updated version of LinVST and have it ready to switch out, but the reason I'm not doing it yet (besides the fact that it ain't broke yet), is that when WINE 8 is officially released, it is possible that the issues with LinVST might no longer exist. OTOH, I'm ready if one morning I get an update and it breaks LinVST. |
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01-21-2023, 03:20 PM | #31 |
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Is there actually any good reason to update Wine? It's so temperamental, I started with 7.3 and try to never touch it again.
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01-21-2023, 06:30 PM | #32 | |
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I have not skipped one single version of WINE since I went pure Linux in June of 2018. In that time frame I have only *once* had a problem with LinVST due to WINE, and I was able to get around the problem by running wine-stable for a few days until an updated wine-staging was released. |
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01-22-2023, 11:53 AM | #33 | |
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The disparity in available libs for linux is down to format, a decision made at the developer level. VPO is not at these levels, but is a start for those who wish to dip their musical toes in the orchestral waters. And there are more and more SFZ libs that have been carefully crafted, with a view to raising the standard all the time. Your point, as always, is well made, however there are "professional" level libs available to those who are willing to use formats (gig, SFZ) that are, arguably, the most well tested of all. My Symphony of Voices set from Spectrasonics was enthusiastically converted to both gig and SFZ, and won awards for excellence. So the standard is already there, and has been for a long time. Linux users just need to be creative, and persistent, to pursue that option. I'm adding this because gig libs that may be for sale in online classifieds, are usually cheaper than brand new all singing, all dancing, heavily marketed, highly priced, and all Kontakt alternatives. NI will NEVER release a native linux version of Kontakt, as they have made abundantly clear, nor will indy and other sample lib developers and companies, with a few exceptions, ever release their most complex and highly priced libs in a format outside of Kontakt, simply because they have no wish to build their own plugins, and the linux market is perceived to be too small. And its ironic that if the effort were made, there would likely be a LOT more linux sample lib and plugin users, knowing they could work natively in Linux, and not resort to clumsy and often unreliable workarounds, like Wine, which can be flakey from one upgrade to the next. We are fortunate indeed to have Reaper, Renoise, Pianotec, OvertoneDSP, and others who produce commercial products that run natively in Linux. Now we need the sample lib developers to catch up, and until they do, continue to explore the older formats for which there are native linux software options available. Personally, I'd like to see a native linux gig plugin along the lines of LS16, a DSSI linuxsampler plugin that was a genuine plugin and not the complicated Fantasia version that required a druidic priests license to operate, as a plugin. LS16 still used linuxsampler as the server backend, but the UI was simple, and easy to use. Alex.
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01-22-2023, 01:58 PM | #34 |
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For a few years now - I have felt that Linux and free libs are abundant. Heck I made my own libs with just the free high quality recordings offered from amazing city orchestras world wide... when they offer them.
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01-22-2023, 08:36 PM | #35 | |
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I think it's good that the Native Linux option is there, but also the possibility to use some Windows tools, for those who feel they need them. We are all free to choose how we will make our music. There's no right or wrong here. Only what works for the individual.
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01-22-2023, 08:37 PM | #36 |
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That is really cool, I wish I could do it.
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01-23-2023, 05:14 AM | #37 |
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Maintaining packages for different OSs is a huge PiTA. Especially for a cluster-fuck of an OS that is Linux. And for what? 10 license purchases? It's amazing how convinced OP is that people owe them work.
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01-23-2023, 06:42 AM | #38 |
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Maintaining packages for different OSes is a huge PITA, I’ll agree. However, you are misinformed about “Linux” being a “C. F.”. That linux is a single OS is a common misconception. What is colloquially called “Linux” by the unwashed masses, is really 500+ separate operating systems composed of similar sets of libraries and tools of varying versions. If there were 500+ versions of Windows OSes, there would be the same problem. This is where sandboxed package management (like Flatpak, Snap, and Appimage) can help, with sufficient community buy-in. Rather than having to worry about utilizing the varying system libraries of the varying different distributions, the libraries needed are packaged with the app in a sandboxed environment. As it stands right now, most closed source developers compile for Ubuntu. If you use Ubuntu, your experience with available software would be as smooth as it would be with Windows. Most developers try to also try to reduce their library dependencies to the most common libraries that most of the 500+ distributions share, so non-Ubuntu distributions can benefit from the apps as well. A stand-alone Linux distribution is as solid as a stand-alone Windows distribution. That said, until there is a common community accepted solution, you are correct that closed source software development will be muted in the Linux world. While “Linux” is not a C.F., we we should be grateful and support our Linux developers where possible, so that they will see the benefits in supporting Linux.
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01-23-2023, 07:31 AM | #39 | |
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01-23-2023, 09:58 AM | #40 | |
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Money will go to Linux developers instead. I have also reserved a certain amount of yearly funds to donate to Linux/FOSS projects that I use, to help them thrive. Last edited by /AND/; 01-23-2023 at 10:03 AM. |
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