waves vocal rider in reaper

[pie]

Hi I need some help setting up waves vocal rider in reaper:

I am not really strong in routing and stuff, so I guess I am doing something wrong.
Vocal Rider use is fairly simple to level one voice track alone, but I am unable to get it working according to a background music track (the "music knob" is always greyed out, as it is the green "music sensivity" indicator on the right).

the vocal rider manual says:
- Insert Vocal Rider as the last plug-in on your vocal or vocal group track.
(done)

- Send your instrumental tracks, post fader, to a bus, just like a headphone mix.
(done? I've used route button and set my bg music track to send to my vo track)

- Set the sidechain input on Vocal Rider to the instrumental bus.
How do I do this? I guess I have to use the IN/OUT button on the plugin but I don't understand completely how this works, and I was unable to make it work.

Attached a screenshot to show what I have, if anyone can help me.

Thank you!

P.

[Lynx_TWO]

Setting sidechaining up in Reaper is super-easy and what sold me on Reaper in the first place. What you do is send the other tracks or folder (bus) to channels 3/4 of the track that Waves vocal rider is on. Then you’ll see the Music area is no longer greyed out

Also, I used to use Vocal Rider but now I use DynaRide2. It’s WAY better and far more adjustable in a logical sense. Also works well on bass guitars, and super-well when you have a folder full of different metal (distortion) guitar tracks coming in and out of the mix. All you do is level all your guitar tracks by a certain LUFS loudness (for me I always use -26LUFS for headroom) then when you have a lick or other guitar part come in over the rythym, you bump that track up by 3-4dB and DynaRide2 will keep the overall loudness of the folder at the same level, automatically turning down the rhythm guitar(s) down and letting your other guitar come through without increasing overall loudness. This also allows you to duck instruments under or over without using compression, which leads to a far more transparent mix.

Example of what that sounds like Here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m65...w?usp=drivesdk

I also use DynaRide2 on the vocal folder (bus), after compression, with all the instruments (accept maybe drums) sidechained to the vocal folder. What that does is automatically raise or lower the vocal levels above the music so it sits well in the mix and doesn’t get drowned out when instrument volume increases.

This is the template I’ve built to mix music:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16WM...w?usp=drivesdk

[ashcat_lt]

Those instructions are for other DAWs. Reaper doesn’t have busses. Just tracks. Those tracks can have multiple channels. Extra channels beyond the normal 1/2 stereo pair are usually used to get things into sidechain inputs.

The easiest way to do what you want is to drag from the I/O button on the instrument bus track and drop it on the plugin gui. Reaper will create a send to channels 3/4, which should be the plugin’s sidechain inputs. Then tell the plugin to look at its sidechain.

[Lynx_TWO]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Reaper doesn’t have busses. Just tracks.

Reaper does have buses, they are just called Folders. If you create a track that has other tracks or folders routed to channels 1/2 but that track you’ve routed other tracks or folders to doesn’t get sent to the Master, then you essentially have created a Bus

[ashcat_lt]

Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO

Reaper does have buses…

In other DAWs a “bus” is a very specific thing. It’s usually like a sort of intermediary track with fairly limited controls which is used to get from one actual track to another, or to an output or something. Reaper tracks are just tracks. They all function identically. You can use them for the kinds of things that other DAWs call buses, but it’s not the same, as demonstrated in the OP. A folder parent track is a slightly special case, but really still not the same as what others call a bus. They don’t have to receive from their children at all, and in every other way are again just plain tracks.

If you go looking for something called a “bus” in default Reaper, you won’t find it.

[Judders]

A bus is just a routing. It's the wires between tracks, not the tracks themselves. It gets confusing because people often call tracks that receive busses "bus".

[ashcat_lt]

That’s not true in other DAWs. A Bus is a thing that you can like find in a menu somewhere which does something(s) very specific. We do not have that in Reaper. We have tracks. We can call them buses and uses them the way other DAWs use buses, but they’re just tracks and Reaper itself doesn’t know or care about the difference.

[Judders]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

That’s not true in other DAWs. A Bus is a thing that you can like find in a menu somewhere which does something(s) very specific. We do not have that in Reaper. We have tracks. We can call them buses and uses them the way other DAWs use buses, but they’re just tracks and Reaper itself doesn’t know or care about the difference.

I haven't used many DAW's, but that's how it works in Logic or Pro Tools, which makes sense because that's how it works in analogue too.

[Lynx_TWO]

Originally Posted by Judders

I haven't used many DAW's, but that's how it works in Logic or Pro Tools, which makes sense because that's how it works in analogue too.

That makes sense… there’s certainly things that can be done in digital that’s not possible in analogue. For example, the only compressor I use now is POWAIR by Radix. It’s purely digital, does a lot that other compressors don’t/can’t since it’s purely digital, and if I want distortion or an analogue sound, I’ll use Fabfilter’s Saturn 2 to get exactly what I want. For me, I guess it’s all about precision with no surprises. It feels like analogue can just be too unpredictable. Sometimes for the better of course, but often for the worse. But then again, my experience with pure analogue is admittedly limited so I might totally be talking out of my ass

Of course, Reaper could easily implement adding a Bus in a menu if they wanted; it’d just be a pre-configured track basically, yes?

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO

That makes sense… there’s certainly things that can be done in digital that’s not possible in analogue. For example, the only compressor I use now is POWAIR by Radix. It’s purely digital, does a lot that other compressors don’t/can’t since it’s purely digital, and if I want distortion or an analogue sound, I’ll use Fabfilter’s Saturn 2 to get exactly what I want. For me, I guess it’s all about precision with no surprises. It feels like analogue can just be too unpredictable. Sometimes for the better of course, but often for the worse. But then again, my experience with pure analogue is admittedly limited so I might totally be talking out of my ass

Of course, Reaper could easily implement adding a Bus in a menu if they wanted; it’d just be a pre-configured track basically, yes?

Yeah, I guess so, but Reaper is already like the world's easiest patch bay. If you want preconfigured sends you just drag and drop then save as a template.

[Lynx_TWO]

Originally Posted by Judders

Yeah, I guess so, but Reaper is already like the world's easiest patch bay. If you want preconfigured sends you just drag and drop then save as a template.

Yep, agreed. That's why I created the template for mixing. Everything is pre-configured for almost anything I'd want to do

[Judders]

Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO

Yep, agreed. That's why I created the template for mixing. Everything is pre-configured for almost anything I'd want to do

Maybe I should, but I've got my custom actions making everything so quick I've never bothered with a mix template.

I use templates for recording bands and recording my hardware synth, just so all the inputs and outputs are ready to go and setting up isn't a creativity killer.

[esorcc]

I don't believe the OP question was ever answered. I just purchased Waves Vocal Rider and am trying to do sidechaining. I cannot find away to feed the detector from another bus. I tried the approach described by Lynx_TWO which is standard approach for sidechaining in Reaper. This is not working with Waves Vocal Rider. Perhaps I wasted some money on this plugin.

[Fergler]

Originally Posted by esorcc

I don't believe the OP question was ever answered. I just purchased Waves Vocal Rider and am trying to do sidechaining. I cannot find away to feed the detector from another bus. I tried the approach described by Lynx_TWO which is standard approach for sidechaining in Reaper. This is not working with Waves Vocal Rider. Perhaps I wasted some money on this plugin.

My guess is you didn't route to channel 3/4

Write out the exact signal path and it will become clear

[esorcc]

Originally Posted by Fergler

My guess is you didn't route to channel 3/4

Write out the exact signal path and it will become clear

I setup the send bus to route 1/2 from instruments sub-bus to 3/4 on my vocal track.

[Fergler]

Originally Posted by esorcc

I setup the send bus to route 1/2 from instruments sub-bus to 3/4 on my vocal track.

Is vocal rider set to use 3/4 in the routing pins of the plugin?

[Lynx_TWO]

It should be working fine for you, but if something still isn’t working right, there’s other discussion on different ways to use Vocal Rider with video examples here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207493

[esorcc]

Turns out it was working all along with the sidechain routing. This was confirmed by the green glowing light that Vocal Rider uses to indicate the signal coming into the plugin. If I reduce the send level from my music bus then the green light stops glowing.

HOWEVER, the fader works opposite of the way you'd want it to work for vocal rider with sidechain.

For vocal riding sidechain I would expect the fader to move up when the music-bus send gets louder and the fader to move down when the music-bus send gets quieter. Instead the fader moves exactly as it does when the main vocal signal is coming in so if music gets louder fader moves down and reduces vocal volume.

My setup was this:
1. vocal tracks were all in a folder. Each vocal track had an instance of the Vocal Rider and triggering off of the vocal so it moves the fader inverse proportional to the incoming vocal signal level as expected.
2. vocal track folder had an instance of Vocal Rider install with a sidechain send from my music bus (folder). Music level LED begins to glow when I increase the send level from the music bus so the Vocal Rider seems to be receiving the music-bus signal. However, fader moves inverse proportional to the music level instead of inverse proportional to the music level.

Originally Posted by Lynx_TWO

It should be working fine for you, but if something still isn’t working right, there’s other discussion on different ways to use Vocal Rider with video examples here:

https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=207493

[Lynx_TWO]

Originally Posted by esorcc

Turns out it was working all along with the sidechain routing. This was confirmed by the green glowing light that Vocal Rider uses to indicate the signal coming into the plugin. If I reduce the send level from my music bus then the green light stops glowing.

HOWEVER, the fader works opposite of the way you'd want it to work for vocal rider with sidechain.

For vocal riding sidechain I would expect the fader to move up when the music-bus send gets louder and the fader to move down when the music-bus send gets quieter. Instead the fader moves exactly as it does when the main vocal signal is coming in so if music gets louder fader moves down and reduces vocal volume.

My setup was this:
1. vocal tracks were all in a folder. Each vocal track had an instance of the Vocal Rider and triggering off of the vocal so it moves the fader inverse proportional to the incoming vocal signal level as expected.
2. vocal track folder had an instance of Vocal Rider install with a sidechain send from my music bus (folder). Music level LED begins to glow when I increase the send level from the music bus so the Vocal Rider seems to be receiving the music-bus signal. However, fader moves inverse proportional to the music level instead of inverse proportional to the music level.

Good information!

[sfcmtw]

I'm having this same problem but the above and other forum posts aren't helping because it seems the plugin pin connector is different for me?

- I want to sidechain the vox with the music.
- I place an instance of Vocal Rider on the vox channel.
- I drag the routing from the music track onto the GUI of Vocal Rider, ensure that the output is 3/4, pre-fader.
- The music is routing to the plugin. I can tell because selecting inputs 3 and 4 in the pin connector I can hear it, while also seeing the plugin fader respond to the music.
- The "Music" feature of the plugin remains greyed out.
- Doesn't matter what pins I select.
- Pin connector is different to those examples in other forum posts on this topic and is different to a stock Reaper plugin. Only shows "Main" and "VST In 2".

I've seen other posts that say you need the VST3 version of VR, but I can't tell where Waves offers one. Many videos with VR in Reaper show it working properly.

Pictures attached. Many thanks in advance for any help.

UPDATE (same day): Re-installed all waves plugins and rescanned them, suddenly had the VST3 options of VR. Now pin connector shows the Aux inputs as expected and Music feature works. Geeeeeeez!