How to capture MTK22 board settings in Reaper?

[guildguy516]

I need to preface this with I CAN NOT mix on a computer screen. I simply can't grasp how to move a mouse to adjust pans or eqs, let alone control a precise fader; enter MTK22. This leap to digital recording has been quite the struggle for me, I was 100% analog until this past year when I finally grew tired of constantly converting files back and forth to do session work for artists. Thank you all for your help on my last post!

Ok, all my levels are set, tracks are panned and eq'd, and ready to be set to a master track...I just don't understand how to send mixed signal from the console back to the computer to record a mixed stereo master track.

{You'll all laugh, but prior to this post I would take the master outputs from the board and run them to an entirely different computer to record a master take...yep. Essentially, I'd hit record on computer A, press play on computer B, and computer A would record the mixed signal going through the console.}

[Stella645]

Add a new track in Reaper at the top or bottom of your mix - Set the tracks input to the MTK 23/24 pair and record arm the track (but make sure record monitor is turned off to avoid feedback)

Place cursor before song start and hit record.

[guildguy516]

Originally Posted by Stella645

Add a new track in Reaper at the top or bottom of your mix - Set the tracks input to the MTK 23/24 pair and record arm the track (but make sure record monitor is turned off to avoid feedback)

Place cursor before song start and hit record.

Thanks for your response. Unfortunately this is not solving my issue. I can't set both 23/24 to a single track. The routing matrix only let's me select EITHER 23 or 24 to the new track. If I select Analogue 23 and Analogue 24 and send them to two new tracks, they have a delay or echo - even when monitoring is off.

On the matrix, there is no other option to select "track 24". Below the 24th analogue channel, the Analogue (stereo/MC) tracks only go up to 23. If I select to record Analogue 23 (stereo/MC) I get no signal.

[Stella645]

There is not really any need to be in the routing matrix

To be sure it's not something you're doing in there, right click the track record button and choose the input pair there.

I can't recall without looking if they should show as a pair of if just the first of the stereo pair shows.

If selecting 23 stereo or whatever then still gives no signal the issue may be something else. Have you recorded other audio into Reaper OK? I also wonder if you may need to tick the allow feedback routing preference....if you have sends on your default track it could be seeing a theoretical loop?
Just be careful with levels if you do tick this.

[Stella645]

they have a delay or echo - even when monitoring is off.

If you record the tracks and play back (soloed) do they have delay??

[guildguy516]

Originally Posted by Stella645

There is not really any need to be in the routing matrix

To be sure it's not something you're doing in there, right click the track record button and choose the input pair there.

I can't recall without looking if they should show as a pair of if just the first of the stereo pair shows.

If selecting 23 stereo or whatever then still gives no signal the issue may be something else. Have you recorded other audio into Reaper OK? I also wonder if you may need to tick the allow feedback routing preference....if you have sends on your default track it could be seeing a theoretical loop?
Just be careful with levels if you do tick this.

Ok, I had no idea I could assign tracks via the record button so thank you for that tip. I thought it all had to be done via the routing matrix. I created a new track, armed it to record, assigned 23/24 stereo and recorded.

Two issues arise:
1) Signal going to it is weaker than the signal I am hearing when mixing
2) When recording, that channel had two different wave forms (stereo) but when I playback that track, it is only playing in mono.

[Stella645]

1. That's apparently an issue with the Mixer.

https://gearspace.com/board/presonus...t-problem.html

2. Not totally clear from this what it could be...do you see stereo waveform still after the recording is complete?
How do you know it's Mono exactly....just what you hear? Can you confirm by playing that file in another software like media player that it still plays back mono?

[serr]

I'd suggest learning the basic connections so everything isn't a mystery.

Assigning hardware inputs - right-click the record arm button and assign single mono, 2 channels of stereo, or even higher track counts.

The MTK22 is not a digital board. (I'm pretty sure you know this and that's why you wanted it. But just in case...) It's a fully analog board with a USB audio interface built in. You can feed channels of audio to it digitally over the interface connection. You can feed channels of audio digitally to a computer from its mic inputs and the output pair. It is not a control surface that can be used to control a DAW and you can't "capture settings" from it in a DAW. It's a pure analog board. Audio signals are actually going through potentiometer faders. You can record a mix from its main stereo output.

The levels coming off it will be what you set them to. Digital is all or nothing. Digital levels will not change or lower slightly from a loose connection like in the analog domain. When the digital codes going down the wire get corrupted, the audio stops or is riddled with dropouts that sound like static and clicks and pops. So... look to your analog gain staging for the root cause of level discrepancies.

You said "You'll all laugh, but prior to this post I would take the master outputs from the board and run them to an entirely different computer to record a master take"
I'm not laughing but more wondering how you pulled off using a single audio interface with two computers! That's a harder trick than anything else mentioned here!


All I can really say is I agree that analog gear is intuitive and I still think it's easier to operate. However, the ability to handle audio, mix, preserve audio quality to the nth degree, and the availability of powerful tools that cost $$$$$$ in the analog world is a lot of bang for the buck and to the point that it makes the easier learning curve a moot point.

If you learn the initial ins and outs routing and the basic controls you might come to like some of this.

I used one of those MTK22 boards for a bit at a club. It was purchased because the owner could have never been trained to even power on an X32 let alone run it with an iPad. He couldn't do anything reasonable with an analog board either so it should have been a moot point but anyway...
I brought home some great multitrack recordings. It delivered! It stunk to mix on though! I only needed minimal reinforcement in a small room and it wasn't good enough for that, frankly. It would truly suck to try to make a studio mix on. Just sayin'. It would motivate me to finally learn a DAW. Reaper is a fine choice.

[guildguy516]

Originally Posted by Stella645

1. That's apparently an issue with the Mixer.

https://gearspace.com/board/presonus...t-problem.html

2. Not totally clear from this what it could be...do you see stereo waveform still after the recording is complete?
How do you know it's Mono exactly....just what you hear? Can you confirm by playing that file in another software like media player that it still plays back mono?

1. I did a lot of reading prior to this and never stumbled across anyone talking about this issue. I thought I had a work-around by recording the master track and then boosting the gain but that introduced noise to the track that is not there when monitored from the board.

2. Previous to your response, I did not render the file and playback in another program because the track wasn't done in stereo - based off my ears and waveform. Even though the waveform represent a mono signal, when I render it and play it in another program the WAV is in stereo. If I import the WAV I just rendered, it is in stereo...even though the track I just rendered it from is in mono. This is why I can't grasp the digital realm. You should read the troubleshooting others had to do in my other posts {sigh}

[guildguy516]

Originally Posted by serr

I'd suggest learning the basic connections so everything isn't a mystery.

Assigning hardware inputs - right-click the record arm button and assign single mono, 2 channels of stereo, or even higher track counts.

The MTK22 is not a digital board. (I'm pretty sure you know this and that's why you wanted it. But just in case...) It's a fully analog board with a USB audio interface built in. You can feed channels of audio to it digitally over the interface connection. You can feed channels of audio digitally to a computer from its mic inputs and the output pair. It is not a control surface that can be used to control a DAW and you can't "capture settings" from it in a DAW. It's a pure analog board. Audio signals are actually going through potentiometer faders. You can record a mix from its main stereo output.

The levels coming off it will be what you set them to. Digital is all or nothing. Digital levels will not change or lower slightly from a loose connection like in the analog domain. When the digital codes going down the wire get corrupted, the audio stops or is riddled with dropouts that sound like static and clicks and pops. So... look to your analog gain staging for the root cause of level discrepancies.

You said "You'll all laugh, but prior to this post I would take the master outputs from the board and run them to an entirely different computer to record a master take"
I'm not laughing but more wondering how you pulled off using a single audio interface with two computers! That's a harder trick than anything else mentioned here!


All I can really say is I agree that analog gear is intuitive and I still think it's easier to operate. However, the ability to handle audio, mix, preserve audio quality to the nth degree, and the availability of powerful tools that cost $$$$$$ in the analog world is a lot of bang for the buck and to the point that it makes the easier learning curve a moot point.

If you learn the initial ins and outs routing and the basic controls you might come to like some of this.

I used one of those MTK22 boards for a bit at a club. It was purchased because the owner could have never been trained to even power on an X32 let alone run it with an iPad. He couldn't do anything reasonable with an analog board either so it should have been a moot point but anyway...
I brought home some great multitrack recordings. It delivered! It stunk to mix on though! I only needed minimal reinforcement in a small room and it wasn't good enough for that, frankly. It would truly suck to try to make a studio mix on. Just sayin'. It would motivate me to finally learn a DAW. Reaper is a fine choice.

I appreciate your time in responding, perhaps you're giving me too much credit by saying "learn the basic connections". I've learned a lot of skills in my life and utilizing a computer is not one of them; heck, I've had an email for 20 years and I still have to search around for my sent folder when I'm looking to see if I've returned messages in my inbox; I simply struggle to navigate in a virtual world.

When searching for a board, I needed one that had an abundance of channels - as I mostly do live studio recordings (I hate tracking songs), one that would be compatible with loads of old analog outboard gear (call me old-school but the signal is essentially record-ready when it gets recorded, I do very little post-production), and I needed to have tangible controls. I struggle to drag and drop a file with ease so using a mouse to finesse levels was not going to happen. The MTK22 was the answer as it not only flattened the learning curve, but also had what I needed without spending thousands.

Apparently, asking a computer to simply replace an Ampex ATR102 without relearning the entire craft is too much to ask {significantly heavier sigh}

[serr]

You can quickly verify if two channels of a recording are identical mono or actually different and stereo.

Duplicate the track with the stereo item.
Set the item properties of one to left (mono) and the other to right (mono).
Click the polarity reverse on one of the tracks.
Hit play.

If the channels are true mono you will hear silence and see -inf on the master meter.

This will not tell you anything about the quality of a stereo signal if you discover true stereo there. But you can very quickly verify matter of fact if two channels are identical. One of the benefits of digital audio. Doing this in analog always involves variable noise floor and you'll never get a perfect null. Still a relevant test in that scenario though too. Seeing something null down to the noise floor still tells you the signals were the same but for some generational noise.