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Old 10-28-2020, 05:04 PM   #10841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Right now you have to define that behaviour in the zone definition as you point out, I'm suggesting it is automatically done:

Code:
FPScribble|                  TrackNameDisplay
FaderTouch+FPScribble|       TrackVolumeDisplay
Shift+FaderTouch+FPScribble| TrackPanDisplay
Alt+FaderTouch+FPScribble|   TrackPanWidthDisplay
gets replaced by

Code:
FPScribble|                  TrackNameDisplay
Simply adjusting Volume, Pan, or Pan Width automatically takes over the Name display temporarily.
I'm good with the overall approach (always prefer the simple solution that meets 90% of use cases), but how would that work when you're surface.zon also includes a Zone like this:

Code:
Zone "FocusedFXParam"
   	Fader1 						FocusedFXParam
	DisplayUpper1 					FocusedFXParamNameDisplay
	DisplayLower1 					FocusedFXParamValueDisplay
ZoneEnd
As long as I'm in that zone and the displays still work as shown, when the fader starts being touched or what-not, I'm good with what you're proposing. But if FaderTouch from the ChannelZone suddenly started overriding the FocusedFXParamDisplay, that wouldn't be ideal when in this particular .zon.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:22 PM   #10842
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Originally Posted by Funkybot View Post
I'm good with the overall approach (always prefer the simple solution that meets 90% of use cases), but how would that work when you're surface.zon also includes a Zone like this:

Code:
Zone "FocusedFXParam"
   	Fader1 						FocusedFXParam
	DisplayUpper1 					FocusedFXParamNameDisplay
	DisplayLower1 					FocusedFXParamValueDisplay
ZoneEnd
As long as I'm in that zone and the displays still work as shown, when the fader starts being touched or what-not, I'm good with what you're proposing. But if FaderTouch from the ChannelZone suddenly started overriding the FocusedFXParamDisplay, that wouldn't be ideal when in this particular .zon.
Not quite sure I understand.

When "FocusedFXParam" is activated, does Fader1 still control TrackVolume ?

If so that's a bug.

If not, then the "FocusedFXParam" activation repurposes Fader1 -- it does not exist in the Channel zone anymore, so of course it would not affect anything in the Channel zone.

Is that what you mean ?
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:25 PM   #10843
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Not quite sure I understand.

When "FocusedFXParam" is activated, does Fader1 still control TrackVolume ?

If so that's a bug.

If not, then the "FocusedFXParam" activation repurposes Fader1 -- it does not exist in the Channel zone anymore, so of course it would not affect anything in the Channel zone.

Is that what you mean ?
Yeah, that was it. I was overthinking it, particularly in relation to all the recent FaderTouch and Touch automation talk.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:33 PM   #10844
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Yeah, that was it. I was overthinking it, particularly in relation to all the recent FaderTouch and Touch automation talk.
Yup, that's precisely why I'm proposing the changes.

It gets very tricky to separate the concepts/behaviours when there are multiple meanings to touch:

Touch in the "what different behaviour occurs" sense

Touch in the automation control sense

etc.

I say let's constrain Touch to the automation control sense.

Let's tackle the other concepts differently...
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Old 10-29-2020, 12:46 AM   #10845
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Yeah, hardware that has many different modes can do that to you
To get back to my display issues, here's what I do.

My screen, 28x4, can be seen as a 4x4 matrix, instead of the 8x2 MCU one. I'm controlling it like this (U = Upper, L = Lower) :

Code:
U1 U2 U3 U4
U5 U6 U7 U8
L1 L2 L3 L4
L5 L6 L7 L8
Code:
Zone Channel1
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper1  				TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayUpper5				TrackPanDisplay
	DisplayUpper6				FixedTextDisplay "       " //This cleans up the screen. Not needed if I can display more than 1 track at a time
	DisplayUpper7				FixedTextDisplay "       "
	DisplayLower1  				TrackVolumeDisplay
With this, I have a single column that shows the track name, right below the panning, and right below again, the track volume.

Now, unfortunately, this weird screen config prevents me from displaying more than 1 track at a time (instantiating to "DisplayUpper|+4" would solve this ). But it's already *much much much* better to have just one channel with a clean display than the weird stuff I had when Reaper believed the surface used a regular MCU 55x2 display !

Haven't had a chance to look at the plugins display yet, but I'm expecting the same garbled output due to the different "matrix" size.
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Old 10-29-2020, 02:25 AM   #10846
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When I use find actionkey command and press button from my controller, CSI does not show it's name, but actual action still works. Is this Normal?
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:08 AM   #10847
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Originally Posted by Petzi View Post
To get back to my display issues, here's what I do.

My screen, 28x4, can be seen as a 4x4 matrix, instead of the 8x2 MCU one. I'm controlling it like this (U = Upper, L = Lower) :

Code:
U1 U2 U3 U4
U5 U6 U7 U8
L1 L2 L3 L4
L5 L6 L7 L8
Code:
Zone Channel1
	SelectedTrackNavigator
	DisplayUpper1  				TrackNameDisplay
	DisplayUpper5				TrackPanDisplay
	DisplayUpper6				FixedTextDisplay "       " //This cleans up the screen. Not needed if I can display more than 1 track at a time
	DisplayUpper7				FixedTextDisplay "       "
	DisplayLower1  				TrackVolumeDisplay
With this, I have a single column that shows the track name, right below the panning, and right below again, the track volume.

Now, unfortunately, this weird screen config prevents me from displaying more than 1 track at a time (instantiating to "DisplayUpper|+4" would solve this ). But it's already *much much much* better to have just one channel with a clean display than the weird stuff I had when Reaper believed the surface used a regular MCU 55x2 display !

Haven't had a chance to look at the plugins display yet, but I'm expecting the same garbled output due to the different "matrix" size.
I looked for the midi spec for your device and couldn't find one.

If you can find one, please post it, I will see if CSI can support the displays directly.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:09 AM   #10848
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Originally Posted by pwallin View Post
When I use find actionkey command and press button from my controller, CSI does not show it's name, but actual action still works. Is this Normal?
You mean Reaper Actions from the Reaper Action list ?

If so, yes, it just executes the Reaper Action, it doesn't display anything.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:12 AM   #10849
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New build is up.

Added preliminary support for FXParamTouch, example usage:

Code:
    Fader1 FXParam "7"
    FaderTouch1 FXParamTouch "7"
If you have an envelope armed and in Touch mode, this should work

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 10-29-2020 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 05:42 AM   #10850
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
I looked for the midi spec for your device and couldn't find one.

If you can find one, please post it, I will see if CSI can support the displays directly.
I don't know that info, but I dived into the code (can't help ). The screen is basically a 56x2 displayed on a 28x4 output. If I use the regular MCU display, the channels 5-8 are on the second line of my display, so the first half of the MCU display is on the Qcon Lite 1st line, and the second half is on the Lite 2nd line.

It should be just a change in the offset (from 0|1 * 56 to 0|1|2|3 * 28). And of course, limiting to 4 channels only (if necessary, haven't found boundary checks in the code yet).

The code compiles with a "FB_LiteDisplayUpper / UpperMid / LowerMid / Lower" widgetClass, so I'm quite confident this could work, but I'll have to test it thoroughly later this evening.

If I can get it to work, I'll create a merge request on git (need to remember how to do this, it's been a while ).

EDIT: did a super quick test : it works I can specify any of the 4 lines, and any of the 4 columns ! w00t !
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Last edited by Petzi; 10-29-2020 at 06:10 AM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 06:38 AM   #10851
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Originally Posted by Petzi View Post
I don't know that info, but I dived into the code (can't help ). The screen is basically a 56x2 displayed on a 28x4 output. If I use the regular MCU display, the channels 5-8 are on the second line of my display, so the first half of the MCU display is on the Qcon Lite 1st line, and the second half is on the Lite 2nd line.

It should be just a change in the offset (from 0|1 * 56 to 0|1|2|3 * 28). And of course, limiting to 4 channels only (if necessary, haven't found boundary checks in the code yet).

The code compiles with a "FB_LiteDisplayUpper / UpperMid / LowerMid / Lower" widgetClass, so I'm quite confident this could work, but I'll have to test it thoroughly later this evening.

If I can get it to work, I'll create a merge request on git (need to remember how to do this, it's been a while ).

EDIT: did a super quick test : it works I can specify any of the 4 lines, and any of the 4 columns ! w00t !
Wow, great work !!

When you are happy with the code, please do create a merge request, or, if that proves too difficult, just give me a heads up, I'll just do the merge manually.
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Old 10-29-2020, 06:55 AM   #10852
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Wow, great work !!

When you are happy with the code, please do create a merge request, or, if that proves too difficult, just give me a heads up, I'll just do the merge manually.
Yep, I'll try to remember my GIT days If I'm stuck for too long, I'll hit the mail.

But, in the meantime, I've also found that if I do this in my MST file :

Code:
/First Column
Widget DisplayUpper1 
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 0
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayLower1
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 4 
WidgetEnd

/ 2nd Column
Widget DisplayUpper2 
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 1
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayLower2
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 5 
WidgetEnd
I can keep 8 track on two lines and be as close to the regular MCU display, while accomodating with the weird Qcon Lite display...

Tested both solutions ... I guess I could even do a mix of the two to get 8 parameters cleanly displayed when in plugin mode, and keep the 4 track/4 lines display when i'm in tracking mode ...

So now I can do this with the code change :

Code:
U1  U2  U3  U4
UM1 UM2 UM3 UM4
UL1 UL2 UL3 UL4
L1  L2  L3  L4
or this, with just hacking the MST file :

Code:
U1  U2  U3  U4
L1  L2  L3  L4
U5  U6  U7  U8
L5  L6  L7  L8
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:13 AM   #10853
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
You mean Reaper Actions from the Reaper Action list ?

If so, yes, it just executes the Reaper Action, it doesn't display anything.
Proper term was "Find Shortcut" and I mean, that if I do not remember what action I have programmed to a button, I usually find it by hitting "Find Shortcut", then press button from the controller and Reapers Action window shows the corresponding action I have set to it. CSI does not seem to do that with X-Touch.
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:23 AM   #10854
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Originally Posted by pwallin View Post
Proper term was "Find Shortcut" and I mean, that if I do not remember what action I have programmed to a button, I usually find it by hitting "Find Shortcut", then press button from the controller and Reapers Action window shows the corresponding action I have set to it. CSI does not seem to do that with X-Touch.
As far as I know CSI never did that, not with X-Touch or anything else.

Do you mean if you use other control surface extension(s) -- not CSI ?
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:25 AM   #10855
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Originally Posted by Petzi View Post
Yep, I'll try to remember my GIT days If I'm stuck for too long, I'll hit the mail.

But, in the meantime, I've also found that if I do this in my MST file :

Code:
/First Column
Widget DisplayUpper1 
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 0
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayLower1
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 4 
WidgetEnd

/ 2nd Column
Widget DisplayUpper2 
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 1
WidgetEnd

Widget DisplayLower2
    FB_MCUDisplayUpper 5 
WidgetEnd
I can keep 8 track on two lines and be as close to the regular MCU display, while accomodating with the weird Qcon Lite display...

Tested both solutions ... I guess I could even do a mix of the two to get 8 parameters cleanly displayed when in plugin mode, and keep the 4 track/4 lines display when i'm in tracking mode ...

So now I can do this with the code change :

Code:
U1  U2  U3  U4
UM1 UM2 UM3 UM4
UL1 UL2 UL3 UL4
L1  L2  L3  L4
or this, with just hacking the MST file :

Code:
U1  U2  U3  U4
L1  L2  L3  L4
U5  U6  U7  U8
L5  L6  L7  L8
Cool, see you used FB_MCUDisplayUpper, we should really add one specific to your controller.

Rather than have you dig around to make that happen, can you just post your code for FB_MCUDisplayUpper, I will make the necessary changes.
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:39 AM   #10856
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up.

Added preliminary support for FXParamTouch, example usage:

Code:
    Fader1 FXParam "7"
    FaderTouch1 FXParamTouch "7"
If you have an envelope armed and in Touch mode, this should work
I was working yesterday, so I missed the Touch discussion. I had a read through the proposals though and it seems to make sense

The business about the track name disappearing when the fader is touched is fine, as long as it only applies to surfaces with a single line display.

On my 2 line MCU type displays, the top line (in the channel zone) is always the track name, it's only the bottom line that changes. As long as this still happens, i'm good

One thing I was wondering about, why does Touch have to be defined in a Zone at all. Why isn't it just implicit that if a control is touched and a Touch definition appears in the .mst, then Touch happens?

The .zon Touch definitions seem redundant to me because Touch doesn't exist in isolation, it is always tied to either a fader or a knob.
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Old 10-29-2020, 07:43 AM   #10857
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I noticed something the other night that I have not been able to reproduce. I have not created zone files for plugins to use with Eucon. All my plugins have zone files that have been set up for a mackie C4. In testing Eucon I pressed the insert button and a plugins parameters spilled across the artist mix rotary controls. This has never happened before and I haven't been able to make it happen again.

How did this happen? Is it supposed to just do that?
I've had this happen too and like you, haven't been able to re-create it. I put it down to FX being essentially broken until Geoff restores it to its former glory
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:11 AM   #10858
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Cool, see you used FB_MCUDisplayUpper, we should really add one specific to your controller.

Rather than have you dig around to make that happen, can you just post your code for FB_MCUDisplayUpper, I will make the necessary changes.
Code sent by PM, along with the MST new feedback processor names.
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:11 AM   #10859
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I was working yesterday, so I missed the Touch discussion. I had a read through the proposals though and it seems to make sense

The business about the track name disappearing when the fader is touched is fine, as long as it only applies to surfaces with a single line display.

On my 2 line MCU type displays, the top line (in the channel zone) is always the track name, it's only the bottom line that changes. As long as this still happens, i'm good.
Yes, that's why I think a new type of display Action is necessary, so that users can control whether it happens or not.

Propose calling it TrackNameDisplayWithTakeover, until someone comes up with a better name

In this case, whatever parameter is being adjusted in a given zone -- e.g. Volume, Pan, Width, for a Channel -- temporarily takes over the TrackNameDisplayWithTakeover, and displays the current value.

If you don't want that behaviour, just use TrackNameDisplay

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
One thing I was wondering about, why does Touch have to be defined in a Zone at all. Why isn't it just implicit that if a control is touched and a Touch definition appears in the .mst, then Touch happens?

The .zon Touch definitions seem redundant to me because Touch doesn't exist in isolation, it is always tied to either a fader or a knob.
Yes, to you, but as you can see in any .mst definition they are completely separate entities within the surface definition.

Hmmm...

As I typed that I just realized it's BS, now that we are thinking of restricting touch to automation

We add FB_ definitions for lights directly to switch widgets, why should touch be any different.

Let me think this through a bit, you may have solved a bunch of other issues as well

That's why CSI is a community project

Last edited by Geoff Waddington; 10-29-2020 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:00 AM   #10860
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Code sent by PM, along with the MST new feedback processor names.
Thanks, new build is up, hopefully I got everything right

I renamed FB_LiteDisplay... to FB_QConLiteDisplay... to more accurately align with the other names, MCU, C4, FP8, etc.

Let me know if it works, i'm sure you will
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:04 AM   #10861
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As far as I know CSI never did that, not with X-Touch or anything else.

Do you mean if you use other control surface extension(s) -- not CSI ?
I tested again and it works with NanoKONTROL2 and Klinke.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:23 AM   #10862
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Thanks, new build is up, hopefully I got everything right

I renamed FB_LiteDisplay... to FB_QConLiteDisplay... to more accurately align with the other names, MCU, C4, FP8, etc.

Let me know if it works, i'm sure you will
Hi Geoff, not necessarily now, but any chance you'd be able to take a Sysex Dump with the Novation Remote Zero SL displays and that would be enough to get those added? I have no idea how to spy on sysex and turn that into anything meaningful, but when I open the Sysex Data in a text editor, you can easily read the names - so I'm hoping there's some way to extrapolate from that what's needed to make them work. I've scoured the web for detailed documentation, but couldn't find anything.

It's still one of the few MIDI Boxes with displays. Kind of like a poor man's C4, but with a much better desktop profile.

Last edited by Funkybot; 11-18-2020 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:34 AM   #10863
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Thanks, new build is up, hopefully I got everything right

I renamed FB_LiteDisplay... to FB_QConLiteDisplay... to more accurately align with the other names, MCU, C4, FP8, etc.

Let me know if it works, i'm sure you will
Yes it works

And I created one set of widgets using FB_QConLiteDisplay for the 4X4 matrix, and one set using the regular 8x2 using FB_MCUDisplay. This way, I can do my thing with the 4 columns, and still have that sweet 8 colums on two (properly displayed) lines for that plugin compatibility !

Thanks for adding the code
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:35 AM   #10864
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I tested again and it works with NanoKONTROL2 and Klinke.
Ahh, Ok, you are saying when you use Klinkes extension.

That isn't planned for CS at the moment.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:38 AM   #10865
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Hi Geoff, not necessarily now, but any chance you'd be able to take a Sysex Dump with the Novation Remote Zero SL displays and that would be enough to get those added? I have no idea how to spy on sysex and turn that into anything meaningful, but when I open the Sysex Data in a text editor, you can easily read the names - so I'm hoping there's some way to extrapolate from that what's needed to make them work. I've scoured the web for detailed documentation, but couldn't find anything.

It's still one of the few MIDI Boxes with displays. Kind of like a poor man's C4, but with a much better desktop profile.
I opened the SysEx dump in a text editor and didn't see anything about the displays, just the controls.

Also had a quick look for the midi spec, like you, I came up empty
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:39 AM   #10866
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Yes it works

And I created one set of widgets using FB_QConLiteDisplay for the 4X4 matrix, and one set using the regular 8x2 using FB_MCUDisplay. This way, I can do my thing with the 4 columns, and still have that sweet 8 colums on two (properly displayed) lines for that plugin compatibility !

Thanks for adding the code
Great, thanks for coding it in the first place
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:46 AM   #10867
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Ahh, Ok, you are saying when you use Klinkes extension.

That isn't planned for CS at the moment.
Ok, so only way to know is search through zone file?
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:49 AM   #10868
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Ok, so only way to know is search through zone file?
....or buy a label machine
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:51 AM   #10869
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....or buy a label machine
I use a laser printer with 1/2" labels
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:54 AM   #10870
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....or buy a label machine
I consider my label maker an essential purchase. Whether it's labeling CSI hardware, patchbays, outlets...that thing gets used a lot. For me, it's an essential non-audio purchase for audio work.
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Old 10-29-2020, 09:55 AM   #10871
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Originally Posted by pwallin View Post
Ok, so only way to know is search through zone file?
Let's talk about what CSI is.

It's a way to improve your workflow by making functionality immediately available at your fingertips, no mousing around.

Kind of defeats the whole purpose if the buttons are a mystery

I think forcing you to check the zone file is a great way to reinforce your memory.

As per the last post, I make labels for everything, so that my feeble brain can instantly see what something does
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:04 AM   #10872
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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
....or buy a label machine
Eventually I get something like that My problem at now is when experimenting or reorganizing I switch actions to lot of different buttons and eventually get lost, it's good to use Find Shortcut. Reaper has it for this usage and is fast to use. Shame that I can't use it with CSI, only with Klinke.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:22 AM   #10873
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Originally Posted by pwallin View Post
Eventually I get something like that My problem at now is when experimenting or reorganizing I switch actions to lot of different buttons and eventually get lost, it's good to use Find Shortcut. Reaper has it for this usage and is fast to use. Shame that I can't use it with CSI, only with Klinke.
Here's how I do it with the LaunchPad mini mk3.

The labels are easily movable/removable, and when they fade I just print some more

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File Type: jpg LauchPadLowRez.jpg (45.8 KB, 208 views)
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:27 AM   #10874
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Here's how I do it with the LaunchPad mini mk3.

The labels are easily movable/removable, and when they fade I just print some more

I plan on re-creating this for the iPad, only without the sticky labels
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:38 AM   #10875
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Here's how I do it with the LaunchPad mini mk3.

The labels are easily movable/removable, and when they fade I just print some more

Well, my problem is not labels, but finding their actions through code.

Last edited by pwallin; 10-29-2020 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 10-29-2020, 10:39 AM   #10876
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I plan on re-creating this for the iPad, only without the sticky labels
X-Touch has very little room for stickers, so I plan to make a template and laminate it.
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Old 10-29-2020, 11:31 AM   #10877
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Just thinking out loud here

Proposed syntax for widgets that include touch capability:

Code:
Widget Fader1
	Fader14Bit e0 7f 7f
	FB_Fader14Bit e0 7f 7f
        Touch 90 68 7f 90 68 00
WidgetEnd
What do you think ?
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Old 10-29-2020, 11:33 AM   #10878
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
Just thinking out loud here

Proposed syntax for widgets that include touch capability:

Code:
Widget Fader1
	Fader14Bit e0 7f 7f
	FB_Fader14Bit e0 7f 7f
        Touch 90 68 7f 90 68 00
WidgetEnd
What do you think ?
That looks tidy
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Old 10-29-2020, 11:34 AM   #10879
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I think if you have an iPad or tablet, the free Avid Control app is brilliant for making pages and pages of actions available.

So much is packed into that free app. Metering, transport, basic eucon mixing controls, etc. all in one.
I should check that out, don't want to re-invent the wheel
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Old 10-29-2020, 11:38 AM   #10880
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I dig what you did there Geoff with the Launch Pad. Looks great!

I think if you have an iPad or tablet, the free Avid Control app is brilliant for making pages and pages of actions available.

So much is packed into that free app. Metering, transport, basic eucon mixing controls, etc. all in one.
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