Old 10-26-2020, 09:10 PM   #561
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Here's some Razor Edit thoughts:

1. Can the selection please cast some vertical and horizontal guidelines (tinting is truly the way to go) during the move/duplicate of a Razor Selection?

2. Modifier to Lock Horizontal/Vertical Movement while dragging. Can work exactly like envelope points - it detects whether you initiate a Horizontal or Vertical movement while holding the modifier, and locks. A perfect model.

3. Option/modifier to pool Automation Items in a Razor Edit duplication. Currently is unpooled.

4. Can the Razor Edit area be part of the Undo stack? So often you can drag-duplicate/move an area to the wrong spot, and hitting undo does not return to the "Razor Edit Area" state, but instead just reverses the duplicate/move. You then have to go back and recreate the area, which might be a ton of work (if not impossible) if it's a complex or off-grid edit.

Last edited by ferropop; 10-26-2020 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:11 PM   #562
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...seems like the excitement is dying down and we're accepting the state of Razor Edits as they are because it works pretty good. Let's please keep pressing to make this invaluable tool perfect, it is not yet there.

<3

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Old 10-27-2020, 03:30 AM   #563
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Totally agreed.
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:35 AM   #564
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I am quite happy with the current development status of Razor Edit, but indeed,
there are things left to be desired.

Thank you ferropop, for your great suggestions !
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:51 AM   #565
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+1, drag-guidelines for moving REs, it's the most appropriate use for some kind of visual guide i can imagine.

locking dragged REs horiz/vertically would also pair nicely with the similar RE-draw modifiers discussed in the previous page of this thread. EDIT - as i thought, horiz/vert movement of RE area is already implemented in mouse modifiers. maybe you meant horiz/vert lock for creating RE?

and yes, that undo scenario ferropop describes has happened to me a few times too EDIT see next post
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Old 10-27-2020, 05:28 AM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
4. Can the Razor Edit area be part of the Undo stack? So often you can drag-duplicate/move an area to the wrong spot, and hitting undo does not return to the "Razor Edit Area" state, but instead just reverses the duplicate/move. You then have to go back and recreate the area, which might be a ton of work (if not impossible) if it's a complex or off-grid edit.
seems like this is working as requested? undoing an erroneous RE movement does not undo the RE area draw here.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:39 AM   #567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
seems like this is working as requested? undoing an erroneous RE movement does not undo the RE area draw here.
Hmm lemme dig in again and maybe reinstall the latest pre. Been fussing with this issue for the last while.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:37 AM   #568
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are you talking about this behavior?

1- make RE
2- delete a tempo marker OR select another item OR move time selection etc (essentially, create an undo point)
3- NOTE: at this point, the RE is removed. that's fine.
4- UNDO action in step 2
5- issue: RE is not restored.

this, compared to

1- make RE
2- click elsewhere in empty space in project
3- NOTE: at this point, the RE is removed as expected
4- UNDO
5- RE is restored, as expected
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Old 10-28-2020, 11:38 AM   #569
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See, this is what I was afraid of. Another half-baked feature. None of the great ideas and suggestions of several people here have been included so we can test. Everything is on halt until who knows when.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:46 PM   #570
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Default Edit items overlapped in lanes

My one of the most used functions is editing items when overlapped in lanes. IMHO Reaper must support this editing by RE.
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Old 10-28-2020, 12:52 PM   #571
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i don't think that's a fair take, Mercado_Negro. they've listened to a lot of our feedback.
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:00 PM   #572
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I think he’s just venting, mccrabney, I suspect lots of outlying scenarios and corner cases like this will come to light before it is release-ready. I hope the Devs have got thick skins though, we’ve given them a rough ride over some aspects of RE.


>
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:40 PM   #573
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Really the biggest for me is the lack of envelope manipulation (trim, compression, expansion, tilt).

Have become blazingly fast, bam bam bam slice this, move that here, resize this, duplicate, etc...but then having to slow to a sloth-on-eggshell's pace to reshape curves, and fight against the inherent instinct to use Razor Edit area to do all these things that it should be plainly better at than time selection.

But yeah, praying this comes too.
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Old 10-28-2020, 02:41 PM   #574
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...all the love to the scripters right now working on stuff like this.
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Old 10-28-2020, 04:41 PM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
See, this is what I was afraid of. Another half-baked feature. None of the great ideas and suggestions of several people here have been included so we can test. Everything is on halt until who knows when.
Can't really complain that it's half baked while the cake is literally still being baked.

I personally think the recent video that demonstrated some current limitations and bugs in RE and made suggestions about how to improve it may have had the desired effect. In my head, schwa is elbow deep in a complete reworking of RE and that's why development has recently sorted down quite a bit with the pre-builds and number of items in the recent ones. Could be totally off base of course but that's my hope.
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Old 10-28-2020, 05:46 PM   #576
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I feel the same, but it's not really complaining - moreso just strongly hoping this one gets the top-to-bottom treatment. It's imo the most important thing they've added to Reaper in like, at least 5 years. For real, once this is locked down I'm pretty sure there'll be no real reason to ever introduce another DAW into the workflow.

I'm a huge advocate of Reaper in the pop world, where it's virtually non-existent. Watching an Ableton user have to boot into ProTools to cut vocals, or a ProTools user boot into Ableton to do production...makes me double down on my confidence in Reaper, and makes it very easy to surprise people with Reaper's native ability to do it all.

...all this said, Area Selection has been tragically lacking for a very long time, and I just pray it keeps developing to the end!
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:07 PM   #577
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I think Razor Edit is already working great for many practical uses, but there remains some room for improvement.


I have one particular, previously presented request related to it:
an option to always draw media item buttons inside the item.

It would remove the problem of unintentionally clicking item buttons when initiating creation of Razor Edit areas by left dragging over label area.

In other words, it would allow reserving item label area for initiating Razor Edit area creation, when "Track: left drag" set to "Create razor edit area", and "When drawn above media items, treat item label area the same as empty track space" is set to on.


A GIF of it:




I hope that repeating this request is not annoying It's one of few little details remaining that I think would improve Razor Edit workflow for those of us who set it to left drag.
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Old 10-28-2020, 07:15 PM   #578
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Razor Edit is just that, a way to move/copy items and envelopes. It has a couple more tricks here and there but it's just basically that. Area Selection was supposed to be the definite answer but apparently it gets in the way of several other features. Maybe they're writing it up again from scratch, who knows but the truth is this looks like several other moments in REAPER's lifespan where things show up all of a sudden, they work on them for a while and then everything stops and we don't see the feature fully implemented. Think about Automaton Items...
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:06 AM   #579
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i think about AI constantly, and have since 2017. i aggressively and passionately tested and FR'd AI, and continue to have issues with a few selection/movement problems.

however, i also remember how rocky my relationship with REAPER's envelopes/automation were before AI, and i would rather regularly grunt in annoyed surprise at a handful of AI selection/movement issues then ever go back to what my envelope workflow was before. AI do a LOT of heavy lifting for me now.

i don't know if any of feature in any complex system can ever be called "fully cooked." i do empathize with the points you raise (and i want to hear what you're missing in RE), but i also remain hopeful and hope you can too.
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Old 10-29-2020, 04:18 AM   #580
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i have also intentionally not mentioned any of the RE scripting magic that i have seen being developed, because i know that there is a blurry line between functionality that "should be native" vs "can be scripted" - but after the reframing of area selection as RE, i was very surprised to see AS-style editing so quickly spiral out of RE's feature set.

i definitely support the FRs being made by those script writers, because it seems like they are answering a lot of the wider AS requests.

more evidence that REApack should be included in the default REAPER install? who knows. power users are going to find and use the power one way or another
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:35 AM   #581
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
i have also intentionally not mentioned any of the RE scripting magic that i have seen being developed, because i know that there is a blurry line between functionality that "should be native" vs "can be scripted" - but after the reframing of area selection as RE, i was very surprised to see AS-style editing so quickly spiral out of RE's feature set.

i definitely support the FRs being made by those script writers, because it seems like they are answering a lot of the wider AS requests.

more evidence that REApack should be included in the default REAPER install? who knows. power users are going to find and use the power one way or another
Some stuff can definitely exist in scripter-land, but we're talking the most core of features present in other DAWs for Decades in some instances.

These are some examples of what should absolutely be core:

[QUOTE=Sexan;2337987]




...especially given that we can look at the scripts with our own eyes and (bless the authors for their work obviously!) they are digestible and by every stretch of the imagination doable.
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:40 AM   #582
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I'm very much hoping that built-in Envelope adustment is coming. It's the biggest missing piece of the current state RE's for me personally.

...just want a version that shows the handles so I visually can see where I'm supposed to be clicking.
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Old 10-29-2020, 08:52 AM   #583
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Same.

IMO, the philosophy going forward should be:

1. Don't take Time Selection functionaly away by any means
2. Anything that RE makes more sense than Time Selection for (like, 99% of things) should be doable using RE.

Honestly, the things that Time Selection is actually best suited for is pretty small... setting loop/punch points, creating a Region, etc. In every other circumstance we're dealing with THINGS; items, envelopes, stuff that requires the Tactile, Hands-On direct manipulation of RE.
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Old 10-30-2020, 03:17 AM   #584
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The Automations lanes combined with the Razor edit is a MUST have! that is totally , absolutely needed!!
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Old 10-30-2020, 03:26 AM   #585
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@ferropop, regarding you gif post #581:
That is so amazing, how do you do that ?
Are you using any script(s) for those showed behaviours ?

IMO: What you show in your gifs should really be natively implemented in RE, fantastic stuff !

Fingers crossed Guys and Girls.
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Old 10-30-2020, 07:43 AM   #586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanhaze View Post
@ferropop, regarding you gif post #581:
That is so amazing, how do you do that ?
Are you using any script(s) for those showed behaviours ?

IMO: What you show in your gifs should really be natively implemented in RE, fantastic stuff !

Fingers crossed Guys and Girls.
vanhaze check the thread about Razor Edit Scripts (in this same forum subsection). Those aren't my gifs, just reposting what those bois are up to.
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Old 10-30-2020, 08:26 AM   #587
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Aha, thank you, i will look those up !
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Old 10-31-2020, 09:45 AM   #588
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Default possible bug with REs?

Hi, I have a custom action which chains the following:
Unselect all items
Unselect all tracks
Remove time selection and loop points

and I've noticed that it is clearing RE areas too. Should this be happening?

I have tried each of the component actions to see which one is clearing the RE area. It appears to be the third one but it doesn't always work on its own though it does seem always to do when part of the custom action. Seems like a bug unless I'm missing something, so I thought I'd mention it.

By the way, thank you so much to the devs for bringing in RE. I absolutely love it!! I have had left drag top half of media item set to marquee select item and time, and will definitely be replacing that with razor editing. For me, the biggest advantages are:
-the vastly improved visual feedback for area selection - light-coloured time selection on top of a light-coloured item selection was not my favourite feature of Reaper! :-)
-the fact that I can use the same cut and copy shortcuts for dealing with whole items and selections
-being able to make multiple non-contiguous area selections

And thank you to all the people who have advocated for the feature for so long. It's definitely going to make Reaper even better. Happy Halloween!
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Old 10-31-2020, 04:35 PM   #589
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Hi,one more thought on REs. I think it would be useful if RE areas could be created not just by dragging but also by shift-clicking. For example, I can see myself wanting to tab to a transient and then shift-click to the right of the edit cursor, creating a razor edit area from the edit cursor/transient to where I have shift-clicked.

This is possible with the old way of making areas selections (item selection + time selection) but does not seem to possible with RE at the moment. Unless I'm mistaken, you have to have tab to transient, draw an RE area and then manually line up the left edge of the area with the edit cursor. Shift-clicking would be so much quicker and more elegant, I think.
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Old 11-02-2020, 09:34 AM   #590
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Yesterday I thought about somemething related: just like we double click TCP to select all events in track or lane, would be nice to have another one to make the area selection to all events (instead of item/points selection) and another modifier to add to selection.

Another useful one would ability to create and add area selection between loop locators with a modifier.
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Old 11-02-2020, 04:11 PM   #591
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishRover79 View Post
Hi,one more thought on REs. I think it would be useful if RE areas could be created not just by dragging but also by shift-clicking. For example, I can see myself wanting to tab to a transient and then shift-click to the right of the edit cursor, creating a razor edit area from the edit cursor/transient to where I have shift-clicked.

This is possible with the old way of making areas selections (item selection + time selection) but does not seem to possible with RE at the moment. Unless I'm mistaken, you have to have tab to transient, draw an RE area and then manually line up the left edge of the area with the edit cursor. Shift-clicking would be so much quicker and more elegant, I think.

Something like this?:
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Old 11-02-2020, 04:15 PM   #592
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Yes! I must grab this from your reapack! Sweet!
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:21 AM   #593
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@ amagalma: amazing !

I have your repository in my ReaPack and synced, but i can't find your script for creating RE from Edit Cursor to Mouse ..
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Old 11-03-2020, 06:59 AM   #594
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Yes! That's the sort of thing. One use case would be if you were manually replacing dodgy drum hits with good ones from elsewhere. Shift-clicking or similar to set the right edge of a razor edit on a good hit would mean I wouldn't lose the position of my edit cursor.

Last edited by IrishRover79; 11-03-2020 at 07:41 AM. Reason: I mixed up my left and right!
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Old 11-03-2020, 07:29 AM   #595
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wow, amagalma, that looks really helpful
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Old 11-03-2020, 08:09 AM   #596
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Still would like a mouse mod or key command to mute an area selection.

Would be super handy for audio editing!

Maybe there's a script for it already?
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Old 11-03-2020, 12:00 PM   #597
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Quote:
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Still would like a mouse mod or key command to mute an area selection.

Would be super handy for audio editing!

Maybe there's a script for it already?
This sounds like it should be obvious and simple, but would involve creating all kinds of possibly-irreversable splits in items, doing damage to tracks using ARA, and messing with MIDI note-ons/offs etc.

Agreed though, the ability to select an area and MUTE those specific items seems so obvious and natural. If "in the background" it were temporarily creating mute envelopes for some new kind of hidden MUTE, that might be a way to achieve it...
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Old 11-06-2020, 02:17 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
This sounds like it should be obvious and simple, but would involve creating all kinds of possibly-irreversable splits in items, doing damage to tracks using ARA, and messing with MIDI note-ons/offs etc.

Agreed though, the ability to select an area and MUTE those specific items seems so obvious and natural. If "in the background" it were temporarily creating mute envelopes for some new kind of hidden MUTE, that might be a way to achieve it...
Hmmm.. I'm confused as to why you think this would be potentially problematic? Maybe we're talking about slightly different things.

There's alright a key combo to split the area selection (shift click by default i think), I use this, then I select then I mute the newly selected item. Just basically wishing for a one click way to do this.

I reckon problems could arise, but nothing beyond what would normally happen when you split and mute an item.
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Old 11-06-2020, 03:02 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amagalma View Post
Something like this?:
Would be awesome to be able to do this across tracks like in Ableton, via shift+click or any other modifier.

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Old 11-06-2020, 08:21 PM   #600
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Quote:
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Would be awesome to be able to do this across tracks like in Ableton, via shift+click or any other modifier.
Absolutely.
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