The Amalgamation Part (.ReaParts) - Page 4

joe2 · 05-18-2009, 11:15 AM

I couldn't want this more.

+many

larrygates · 05-19-2009, 06:08 AM

Well get out of Dodge!!!

So much that I miss from that program that I'm now going to simply start my Hackintosh, get the right audio interface and go back over to the dark side of Logic.

Folders, nested folders, automation regions, splice whole sections of songs to make alternate arrangements in seconds (cubase has this too, even better actually).

I'm doing it, I'm building the 6 million dollar machine!

oh yeah, .reaparts +1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebas777

+++1 bump. One of the most important Reaper FR.

Yes, it's like a Folder, with a freeze built in.

In Logic I liked that the folder:

- is opened in the same Arrange window (by double clicking an item); to go back to the main window, just double click empty space between items,
- and you can have nested folders
- and you can use non-destructive quantization etc. on *whole* folders, modifying non-destructive parameters for all contained tracks and items.

This convenient behavior (double clicking to reuse the same window for different contents) is used often in Logic:

- for piano rolls (double click empty space to see multiple midi tracks in one window, to see one sequence, double click a note of that item)
- to zoom out (alt+single click)

Folders and the "Link Button"

You can also create a separate screenset to show what is inside of a currently selected folder, for instance with a list window, arrange window, and a piano roll window. In that screenset you enable the famous "Link Buttons" on all windows.

The result: if you just select a Folder in your main screenset and then switch to the other screenset, the Arrange shows the tracks, the List window shows what's inside the Folder, and the same for the piano roll (if it contains midi).

joe2 · 06-08-2009, 07:30 PM

Why isn't this being bumped constantly?

Is there a new/better thread for it?

beatbybit · 06-08-2009, 07:44 PM

there are a few..

.. asking for the same, in different forms.

maybe eventually, you know.. if we keep on fantasize and hankering about it

joe2 · 06-08-2009, 07:58 PM

Let's commit a fiendish act: the amalgamation thread! Which, naturally, draws together all the various "part"/"sequence" request threads.

The issue *is* this big. It's needed, and soon, in some form. :-)

tumult · 06-11-2009, 12:43 AM

++1 we need this badly. Biggest loss -- by far -- when I moved over from Logic. Constantly struggling without it.

SiKo · 06-14-2009, 10:17 AM

Is this FR already an item in the new tracking system?

Dstruct · 06-14-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiKo

Is this FR already an item in the new tracking system?

Just have a look yourself ...

SiKo · 06-14-2009, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dstruct

Just have a look yourself ...

I just did, thank you, and I think the answer is no...

(My previous reply was more like a hint to the OP. )

beatbybit · 06-14-2009, 10:38 AM

i dont think it would be necessary, i dont think it would speed up the process..

RRokkenAudio · 06-14-2009, 06:05 PM

I'd just like to start by saying that, in most music, the drum track is the CORE of the song. I'd like to also say, for those of us without real drums, the closest you are going to get to real drums are drum loops or one shots.

We have the capabilities to do a lot with audio to track our instruments - strings, horns, whatever. We have the capabilities to play/record Soft sythn strings/keys/horns etc, Even bass.

What is missing in reaper?
The ability to create realistic drum beats with an EASY to use editor. Not only will this allow you to come up with DYNAMIC VARIATIONS of a drum pattern, but you will get the ease of having your pattern be rendered "on-close" of the editor.

This is such a great idea, and I think this is absolutely essential to make reaper a full blown - Audio Creation System.

How can the CORE of most music be overlooked - it can't!

Great idea bbb, I'm sure this will be implemented. And if not, This would be a great loss. I have yet to see any dev even comment on this. Is this something that is too hard to code?

~RobRokken.

Evan · 06-17-2009, 07:05 AM

This feature is so awesome, as it is complex to implement (just guessing, from my little programming experience). It is definitely coming (guessing again), I just think the developers need to lay down the foundations one step at a time.

+1 from me too

zildjohn01 · 06-17-2009, 07:55 PM

It's not really "complex", you just need one more layer of abstraction for items. If REAPER wasn't written with this in mind, it would probably be a pain to get working.

Evan · 06-17-2009, 11:36 PM

I see it similar to the nested folders feature. How more complex is it going from 1-level folders (everything up to v2.x), to nested folders (v3)? It depends on what you had in mind when first designing the feature. In Reaper's case it took some time+effort to make the jump (or appeared to do so).

They've implemented multiple projects (project taps) which seems like a logical step into this direction... I think they're getting there. It's a killer feature.

spinlock · 06-21-2009, 04:49 PM

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=79

I posted a feature request into the system for a similar feature (before I discovered this thread).

I posted it with priority 6 and it now reads 2. Hopefully this means that we might see it soon!!

edding · 06-24-2009, 11:14 AM

+1
Pretty nice.

qwanta · 06-25-2009, 08:50 PM

Would you really need a separate extension for ".ReaParts"? Why not just make amalgamation parts regular rpp project files?

The great, unintrusive new project tabbing - introduced in reaper 3 - opens up new possibilities for this FR I think. Amalgamation parts could simply open in new project tabs for editing, then when you return to the main project, the contents of the tab with the amalgamation part in it gets frozen and updated in the main project.

Some of the exact mechanics would have to be worked out, but the idea is that any rpp project can be imported as a simple frozen clip to any other project. You can keep the main project tab very clean (no more need for massive 100+ track projects), and do intricate editing and what not by launching amalgamation parts in other project tabs.

Thoughts?

beatbybit · 07-09-2009, 10:33 PM

totally,

.RPP would be fine. i dont need a new, separate extension for this.

otoh, for eg. a Track Template (w/Media) is kind of an .RPP too, soo..
well, the point is the functionality..

RRokkenAudio · 07-13-2009, 04:01 AM

No word on this yet huh?? Damn I want this!!!

~Rob.

beatbybit · 07-25-2009, 02:24 AM

a faint bump..

i know, i know.. "Patience brings... containers."

("All things come to those who wait"..)

Patience is the key to paradise.
The cure for bad times is patience.
The man with no patience waits for daylight, and when it comes he'll be blind.
Patience is the mother of a beautiful child.
Mother Nature, time and patience are the three best doctors.
Nature, time, and patience are the three great physicians.
If love is a sickness, patience is the remedy.
A moment of patience can prevent a great disaster and a moment of impatience can ruin a whole life.
Have patience, the grass will be milk soon enough.
Patience and the mulberry leaf become a silk robe.
Patience in the household is a real treasure.
Patience is power

ojj.

qwanta · 07-27-2009, 04:58 PM

It seems like you have pretty much fleshed out the amalgamation part concept.

Just for the sake of discussion then: have you thought about loading amalgamation parts into a sampler instead of simply using them as audio? For example, any time I build up a break, I resample it, chop it up in soundforge, and load it up as slices into shortcircuit in my final project. I simply find it more inspiring to play the break from my midi keyboard, than to manually cut an audio clip and rearrange it. With the keyboard method I can come up with things I could never do in an audio track.

Come to think of it, I usually load-up anything I resample into shortcircuit - whether it be a pad, a bass sound, atmospherics, percussion hits, etc - and then I spread it over a key range.

So here's what I would like to do: once an "amalgamation part" break is chopped up and loaded into shortcircuit, I would like the ability to edit it (for example change or remove the hihats), save it, and presto: all the slices in the sampler have the hihats changed. No need to manually render the break, chop it up in soundforge, and painstakingly reload all the slices. Would open up a lot of creative avenues, and would place the tedious responsibility of keeping track of where the files are at where it belongs: on the computer.

Just throwing this out there...

drew · 07-27-2009, 11:45 PM

Re the sampler approach: But then you don't see the waveforms for those slices while chopping them up and starting playback from within a sample will give you a different result from audio on the timeline.

beatbybit · 07-28-2009, 01:03 AM

quanta,

i like to play drums on the keys too - but i dont waste time on chopping it and trigger the hits in a sample player.

i have another idea for that..

(set up the sample player patch /play on the keyb. / place root media right into Timeline. no MIDI.)

qwanta · 07-28-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatbybit

quanta,

i like to play drums on the keys too - but i dont waste time on chopping it and trigger the hits in a sample player.

i have another idea for that..

(set up the sample player patch /play on the keyb. / place root media right into Timeline. no MIDI.)

Not sure I fully understand... But you have a sample player like renoise, where you can specify offset values to start playing the sample from?
I think this is a future FR you're suggesting, but yes I would like to see some innovation in this area

qwanta · 07-29-2009, 06:19 PM

In line with the sampler idea, I just saw this in the logic 9 specs:

Quote:

Instant sampler instruments.

In one simple step, you can transform any audio region into a sampler instrument, along with a MIDI track that will trigger the samples so they sound just like the original track. From there, it’s easy to modify and resequence the part.

http://www.apple.com/logicstudio/logicpro/

Interesting... I wonder if the region is just one track, or can be multiple tracks too.

drew · 07-29-2009, 11:51 PM

Interesting.. but off-topic

joe2 · 07-30-2009, 07:45 AM

Just a note: I'm far more desperate for a "parts" feature than I am for an "automation parts" feature.

I *really* want parts. :-)

(I mention this without wanting to get into a "kill two birds with one stone" debate (at present), re the scope of parts, and whether or not they could/should include things like automation.)

qwanta · 07-30-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew

Interesting.. but off-topic

How so? You select a time region, a number of tracks and create an amalgamation part. Then you load it into a sampler.

drew · 07-30-2009, 11:14 AM

...and play it as MIDI?

If that's what you mean then it's very different from timeline audio in a container - to my mind at least.

qwanta · 08-01-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew

...and play it as MIDI?

If that's what you mean then it's very different from timeline audio in a container - to my mind at least.

The real power of ReaParts is that they are simply wav files when not being edited (at least that's the way I see their implementation, not sure if everyone agrees). When you edit one it is exploded and all the contents can be edited, but when done editing it is rendered and you are left with a wav consuming very little resources. Basically a ReaPart is a rendered wav of a reaper project - it's not simply an unrendered container of timeline audio.

If a ReaPart is a wav then, it should be able to be used as an audio part in a track or loaded up into a sampler.

A special built-in sampler would be required though to explode the ReaParts from within the sampler and auto-update the sampler wavs when editing is done. That would be my FR if amalgamation parts are implemented. I posted here because the sampler FR has this one as a prerequisite, but I agree it's not fully on topic so I won't mention it again here.

airon · 08-01-2009, 06:00 PM

Here's another use for 'ReaParts' that us sound editors in post production have had in one older DAW named AudioVision, which is now dead and buried by Digidesign after a buyout, the bastards.

Whenever we'd created a sequence of effects we might use again, we'd mark the items in question and create what's called a sequence. This sequence would contain these items in the proper sequence and would be stored in what's called a Bin, a fancy name for a list of items and sequences of which you could have as many as you liked.

That way, a composition of ambiences, a particular combination of sounds that form a series of gun shots so one would have a good choice or simply the sound for an entire scene could be kept at the ready for use later in the same show, or in completley different shows, since Bins were just little database files, and sequences more or less sessions that expanded out once placed.

Safe to say, all the post production folks in audio have asked for this in the last ten years since AudioVision was cancelled. And as expected Digidesign didn't take us serious on this. I sure hope Reaper can be the first to do so.

ReaParts would thus be exceptionally useful to everyone.

Iqbahl · 08-02-2009, 05:55 PM

++1 !

T

ippa · 08-16-2009, 01:01 PM

I just asked questions on how to do this in #reaper @ mixxnet.

Then I found this thread.

+1!

RRokkenAudio · 08-16-2009, 07:21 PM

WE WANT REAPARTS!!!!

todd_r · 08-17-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwanta

The great, unintrusive new project tabbing - introduced in reaper 3 - opens up new possibilities for this FR I think..

When I first was projects in tabs, I thought, ooh it's nearly reaparts time

Up the parts

nfpotter · 08-17-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRokkenAudio

I'd just like to start by saying that, in most music, the drum track is the CORE of the song. I'd like to also say, for those of us without real drums, the closest you are going to get to real drums are drum loops or one shots.

We have the capabilities to do a lot with audio to track our instruments - strings, horns, whatever. We have the capabilities to play/record Soft sythn strings/keys/horns etc, Even bass.

What is missing in reaper?
The ability to create realistic drum beats with an EASY to use editor. Not only will this allow you to come up with DYNAMIC VARIATIONS of a drum pattern, but you will get the ease of having your pattern be rendered "on-close" of the editor.

This is such a great idea, and I think this is absolutely essential to make reaper a full blown - Audio Creation System.

How can the CORE of most music be overlooked - it can't!

Great idea bbb, I'm sure this will be implemented. And if not, This would be a great loss. I have yet to see any dev even comment on this. Is this something that is too hard to code?

~RobRokken.

I'm sorry, Rob, but that's almost insane. Realistic drums? Use Superior Drummer, EZDrummer, Addictive Drums, whatever, and program them with MIDI! Super easy (yes, even within Reaper), and if you spend a little time, as realistic as you want (I fool people all the time, even knowledgeable engineers, they think it's a real drummer).

+1 for this thread, though

Another handy (and seemingly little-known) feature of Cubase is the Play Order Track. If you haven't seen/used it, Google it. CRAZY useful to quickly slap together/test a composition, once you've recorded/programmed the basic parts (in ANY order, I might add).

edding · 09-04-2009, 08:20 AM

Check 3.105pre2

This version has amalgamation part idea. I'ts called PIP. Project into project.

Tallisman · 09-04-2009, 08:25 AM

and it is killer.
and Merky Waters made a macro that that takes the selected items and turns them into a PiP watche it in action: https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/621136/...ectedItems.gif

DIY:
https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/621135/...s.ReaperKeyMap

thanks Merky
(and thanks to sws who created some extra actions needed to make this possible)

.t

Jae.Thomas · 09-04-2009, 08:45 AM

awesome

looks like we are at the beginning stages. Hopefully we can pay attention to the requests made in this thread

musicbynumbers · 09-04-2009, 09:44 AM

Tallisman, I looked at the actually actions and there is one for opening in an external editor, do you know if there is more to this action then just selecting items, any other set up needed?